Edge to lose goal line work? (1 Viewer)

[Buck Bradcanon]

Coach Ken Whisenhunt isn't sure how much running back Edgerrin James will play in the preseason. James, who prefers to play as little as possible until the regular season, likely will carry the ball more than he usually does because the offense is new and the line has been revamped. But Whisenhunt emphasized that James has been getting plenty of work in practice, too. . . . Coaches are searching for a running back to use on the goal line. Whisenhunt knows James can do it, but he wants to get a look at the other backs, too, especially Marcel Shipp. . . . The Cardinals need a tight end who can block, and the performance in camp has been hit and miss. No one has emerged there yet.

I like Edge a lot this year, partly based on him maybe seeing an uptick from the 6TDs he got last year. If this comes to pass, it may temper my expectations somewhat. Was anyone else used in this role last year, or did Edge get the work inside the 5?

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/...sraila0803.html

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

said he wants to "get a look"

translation. We dont want edge to get pounded in the pre-season goalline package.

 

[Bob Henry]

Remember towards the end of last season, it was Edge who voluntarily removed himself when the team got near the goal line to give Marcel Shipp those carries (and TDs). I don't recall (but I could look) how many TDs Shipp scored, but I think it was probably 3-4 in about 2-3 games. So, Edge is a team player and wanted to share the love.. as a fantasy owner who drafts Edge, you need to think about that because it's a legitimate concern and a risk you need to assess if you use a 2nd round pick on him and count on him for RB2 production.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

This is no surprise. Edge has been awful at the goal-line for a couple of years, and Shipp was vulturing already late last season. In addition to the goal-line work that Edge will miss, Whisenhunt has already indicated multiple times that he's going to get his other RBs more involved this season.

Edge's value:

 

[-Crippler-]

said he wants to "get a look"translation. We dont want edge to get pounded in the pre-season goalline package.

Try reading the main point of the article: "Coaches are searching for a running back to use on the goal line."Not good for Edge owners

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

said he wants to "get a look"translation. We dont want edge to get pounded in the pre-season goalline package.

Try reading the main point of the article: "Coaches are searching for a running back to use on the goal line."Not good for Edge owners

There isnt a RB on that roster that will take carries/tds away from Edge that I'd be worried aboutShipp got 3 of his 4 td's in one game last year.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

Thanks Bob and Fear and Loathing..

I didnt remember that about Shipp last year and hadnt heard too much about getting the other guys involved. I know they want to run the ball a billion times but every coach says that this time of year because they want to go 16-0 and be up by 2 TDs going into the 4thQ.

Edge is a guy Im having a hard time placing this year. He may not have the upside of some of the other backs who share his ADP, but his floor also seems to be fairly high (mid to low RB2 production) and this is where i see his value coming from. Im off to his Spotlight thread..

 

[moose162]

Shipp took some goal line carries away from Edge late last year

 

[Bob Henry]

In fairness to Edge, he will be a workhorse as he was last year and was in Indy. However, even in Inday, he frequently pulled himself in the red zone to give Dominic Rhodes the TD carries. It is what it is.. Edge is a great RB and a good teammate. He is often the primary reason the team drives 80 yards to get the opportunity to bang it in for a TD.

Edge, barring injury, will still get 300 carries and quite likely 30+ receptions, but don't count on him going for 10+ TDs.. I just don't think that will happen, but I've been wrong before and it won't be the first or last time.

 

[moose162]

In fairness to Edge, he will be a workhorse as he was last year and was in Indy. However, even in Inday, he frequently pulled himself in the red zone to give Dominic Rhodes the TD carries. It is what it is.. Edge is a great RB and a good teammate. He is often the primary reason the team drives 80 yards to get the opportunity to bang it in for a TD. Edge, barring injury, will still get 300 carries and quite likely 30+ receptions, but don't count on him going for 10+ TDs.. I just don't think that will happen, but I've been wrong before and it won't be the first or last time.

I completely forgot about that. So true. He killed me in Indy by coming out for Rhodes and the same last year with Shipp.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

In fairness to Edge, he will be a workhorse as he was last year and was in Indy. However, even in Inday, he frequently pulled himself in the red zone to give Dominic Rhodes the TD carries. It is what it is.. Edge is a great RB and a good teammate. He is often the primary reason the team drives 80 yards to get the opportunity to bang it in for a TD. Edge, barring injury, will still get 300 carries and quite likely 30+ receptions, but don't count on him going for 10+ TDs.. I just don't think that will happen, but I've been wrong before and it won't be the first or last time.

Good points, Bob. But I think it's important to note that in addition to "pulling himself out" in the redszone, Edge has really struggled to punch it in at the goal-line. He's also no longer much of a factor in the passing game, which is often a sure sign that a RB is in for a decline. I'm staying away from Edge yet again.

 

[Wu-banger]

for every benefit of owning EDge may have, I dont think it's worth the risk. There are too many other RB's that will give production with less headaches.

 

[Jason Wood]

Edge is an interesting character. From 2002-2006 (last 5 seasons), Edge has the 3rd most goal-line carries (defined as 5-yard line and in). Yet, he's only converted a meager 31.6% of his touches into scores.

Of all RBs with at least 10 goal-line carries over that span, care to guess where Edge ranks?

57th

That's HORRIBLE

Now, if you want to argue that his failures have been a byproduct of playing behind that Zona line, and Whisenhunt and Grimm will turn that around, the numbers don't bear that out.

From 2002-2004, running behind a great Colts line, Edge was 4th in goal-line carries (56 rushes) yet converted only 16 for scores, for a conversion rate of 28.6%. In other words, Edge has actually IMPROVED as a goal-line rusher since moving to Arizona; and very much is among the least effective at his craft in that regard.

 

[TheFanatic]

Would you want to take that pounding at the goal line behind the Arizona line last year? I wouldn't. With better line play due to better personnel and infinitely better coaching I can see the goal line being a friendlier place for Edge this year. I still see him pulling himself at times as he is a good team mate and to save the wear and tear, but I don't expect him to run down to the 5 and head to the sideline and wait for the next offensive series....

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Edge is an interesting character. From 2002-2006 (last 5 seasons), Edge has the 3rd most goal-line carries (defined as 5-yard line and in). Yet, he's only converted a meager 31.6% of his touches into scores.

Of all RBs with at least 10 goal-line carries over that span, care to guess where Edge ranks?

57th

That's HORRIBLE

Now, if you want to argue that his failures have been a byproduct of playing behind that Zona line, and Whisenhunt and Grimm will turn that around, the numbers don't bear that out.

From 2002-2004, running behind a great Colts line, Edge was 4th in goal-line carries (56 rushes) yet converted only 16 for scores, for a conversion rate of 28.6%. In other words, Edge has actually IMPROVED as a goal-line rusher since moving to Arizona; and very much is among the least effective at his craft in that regard.

Great post Jason. I knew Edge was really bad at the goaline the last while and this post puts things into perspective.

 

[BigRed]

So, Edge is a team player and wanted to share the love..

LOL yeah that's the ticketEJ sucks at the goal line; always has. He's at least admitting it now, or maybe he's old and is trying to save himself some poundings. Bottom line he wont' score many more TDs than last year IMO.

 

[The Moz]

Edge has always been a awful GL back -- Shipp isn't any better though !

 

[Sweet Love]

said he wants to "get a look"translation. We dont want edge to get pounded in the pre-season goalline package.

Try reading the main point of the article: "Coaches are searching for a running back to use on the goal line."Not good for Edge owners

There isnt a RB on that roster that will take carries/tds away from Edge that I'd be worried aboutShipp got 3 of his 4 td's in one game last year.

I think this is the key here. before the one big game last year, Shipp spent the previous three years in an allergic state to the goalline...and I do not think anyone will confuse Arrington with a goalline back. Unless they add someone that has some punch, i still see Edge as their goalline back (despite how ineffective he has been) unless he is coming off a a big run or long drive.

 

[Bob Henry]

Edge is an interesting character. From 2002-2006 (last 5 seasons), Edge has the 3rd most goal-line carries (defined as 5-yard line and in). Yet, he's only converted a meager 31.6% of his touches into scores.

Of all RBs with at least 10 goal-line carries over that span, care to guess where Edge ranks?

57th

That's HORRIBLE

Now, if you want to argue that his failures have been a byproduct of playing behind that Zona line, and Whisenhunt and Grimm will turn that around, the numbers don't bear that out.

From 2002-2004, running behind a great Colts line, Edge was 4th in goal-line carries (56 rushes) yet converted only 16 for scores, for a conversion rate of 28.6%. In other words, Edge has actually IMPROVED as a goal-line rusher since moving to Arizona; and very much is among the least effective at his craft in that regard.

I can't argue with those numbers, Jason.. however, I would contend that the Colts offensive line was equally abysmal and was never built to be a smash mouth style of line. I'm not sure how much of it was Edge being a poor GL guy (and I'm not an Edge apologist, I think he was pretty bad myself having owned him in a dynasty league for several years) and how much was attributable to the poor run blocking from the line to top things off. I think it's safe to say that a) Edge wasn't and certainly isn't going to be a very effective goal line runner, b) The Colts and Cardinals offensive lines have HELPED his chances any either.

Throw in the fact that he also either pulled himself in numerous situations in the red zone (after getting the team down there and needing a breather on many of those) and he's on the wrong side of 30 now.. He's not going to become a 10+ TD guy anytime soon, unless he defies logic and scores 5+ TDs from longer than 10-20 yards.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Edge is an interesting character. From 2002-2006 (last 5 seasons), Edge has the 3rd most goal-line carries (defined as 5-yard line and in). Yet, he's only converted a meager 31.6% of his touches into scores.

Of all RBs with at least 10 goal-line carries over that span, care to guess where Edge ranks?

57th

That's HORRIBLE

Now, if you want to argue that his failures have been a byproduct of playing behind that Zona line, and Whisenhunt and Grimm will turn that around, the numbers don't bear that out.

From 2002-2004, running behind a great Colts line, Edge was 4th in goal-line carries (56 rushes) yet converted only 16 for scores, for a conversion rate of 28.6%. In other words, Edge has actually IMPROVED as a goal-line rusher since moving to Arizona; and very much is among the least effective at his craft in that regard.

James short yardage struggles didn't magically pop out the minute he got to Arizona. I remember that Colts/Pats opener a few years ago (I think NE won 27-24) where James had two huge short yardage fumbles in the red zone.

 

[Gr00vus]

Of all RBs with at least 10 goal-line carries over that span, care to guess where Edge ranks?

57th

57th out of how many? 10 goal line carries over the span of 5 years averages out to 2 goal line carries a year. That doesn't seem like many to me.I don't question that James isn't great at the stripe - I've owned/seen him enough times to know - but I think your statistical analysis above is tenuous and not necessarily a great comparison without more information being provided.

 

[Jason Wood]

Of all RBs with at least 10 goal-line carries over that span, care to guess where Edge ranks?

57th

57th out of how many? 10 goal line carries over the span of 5 years averages out to 2 goal line carries a year. That doesn't seem like many to me.I don't question that James isn't great at the stripe - I've owned/seen him enough times to know - but I think your statistical analysis above is tenuous and not necessarily a great comparison without more information being provided.

57th out of 85...here is more detail on the FBG Blog:http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/08/03/ed...goal-line-back/

 

[Gr00vus]

57th out of 85...here is more detail on the FBG Blog:

http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/08/03/ed...goal-line-back/

Interesting, other notable people in James's neighborhood (less than 40% conversion rate) with 20 or more goal line carries:Marion Barber III 38%

Dominic Rhodes 38%

Clinton Portis 36%

Curtis Martin 36%

Deuce McCallister 35%

Ricky Williams 33%

Mike Alstott 32%

Willis McGahee 31%

Lamont Jordan 31%

So are all these guys bad goalline backs too? Apparently. Scoring short yardage TDs is tough.

How about that Jones-Drew though - 6 for 10.

 

[sholditch]

this is the only part of that quote that should be payed attention to:

Whisenhunt knows James can do it

end of non-story

 

[nygiants56]

said he wants to "get a look"translation. We dont want edge to get pounded in the pre-season goalline package.

Try reading the main point of the article: "Coaches are searching for a running back to use on the goal line."Not good for Edge owners

wrong.its purely 'coachspeak'.

 

[Ghost Rider]

What is technically considered a goal line carry? Any carry inside the 5? The 3? The 1?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

said he wants to "get a look"translation. We dont want edge to get pounded in the pre-season goalline package.

Try reading the main point of the article: "Coaches are searching for a running back to use on the goal line."Not good for Edge owners

wrong.its purely 'coachspeak'.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

MBSL1 - 10th Pick

QB- Hasslebeck (8),A.Smith(6)

RB- Rudi(5), Edge(8),

WR- Randy Moss(10), M.Clayton(8),Muhammed(9),

TE- KW2(7),

K-

D-

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

MBSL1 - 10th Pick

QB- Hasslebeck (8),A.Smith(6)

RB- Rudi(5), Edge(8),

WR- Randy Moss(10), M.Clayton(8),Muhammed(9),

TE- KW2(7),

K-

D-

LOLits a survivor league, no money or anything on the line there

ANd your kidding yourself if you think anyone on the current roster is a threat to Edge's production at all.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

nah just a friendly jab bike sniffa

i have no idea how the goaline will play out so im definitely not kidding myself. i found Woods stats incredibly enlightening though.

i owned Edge the year Manning threw for 49 tuddies. talk about :wallbash:

 

[crimsonrebel]

the only one on the list that comes as a surprise to me as being on par with edge is deuce. I mean he scored ten TD's last year and you know bush was horrible in short yardage last year. I have to ask that same question though. What defines a goalline TD rushing opportunity?

 

[coachjim]

Remember towards the end of last season, it was Edge who voluntarily removed himself when the team got near the goal line to give Marcel Shipp those carries (and TDs). I don't recall (but I could look) how many TDs Shipp scored, but I think it was probably 3-4 in about 2-3 games. So, Edge is a team player and wanted to share the love.. as a fantasy owner who drafts Edge, you need to think about that because it's a legitimate concern and a risk you need to assess if you use a 2nd round pick on him and count on him for RB2 production.

I can't remember how many times I have seen Edge do this. Not only in AZ but he did the same thing at Indy.