Egypt (1 Viewer)

[HellToupee]

Of course this kind of thing happens in the US. Who here, in their right mind, would let their 17 year old daughter go to a Lollapalooza type Concert?

c'mon man

 

[Sweet J]

So wait, was it reported whether she was raped?

 

[jon_mx]

I think large number of the disagreements on this forum has to do with people being anal over semantics. If you don't phrase things just right, someone gets offended and reads words into statements which aren't there.

Can you be more specific? What are you referring to?

Like on this thread you are worried about how people characterize all Muslims as extremists. The thread yesterday, people got upset with you because you implied anyone who thinks Obama should release his birth certificate were bigots. I think in most cases people are not intending to paint with that large of a brush, they just don't adequately qualify what they are saying. In too many cases on this forum, instead of responding to what was actually said, other posters insist on reading words into it and applying evil motives to statements which just aren't there. To some extent you are doing that with Limbaugh here. Limbaugh is making a point, probably wrongly, that CBS is trying to cover for the protesters. You make the point the Limbaugh is trying to trash all Muslims. Limbaugh assumed a motive that probably wasn't there, but then you go and do about the same thing.

 

[Kumerica]

I think large number of the disagreements on this forum has to do with people being anal over semantics. If you don't phrase things just right, someone gets offended and reads words into statements which aren't there.

Can you be more specific? What are you referring to?

Like on this thread you are worried about how people characterize all Muslims as extremists. The thread yesterday, people got upset with you because you implied anyone who thinks Obama should release his birth certificate were bigots. I think in most cases people are not intending to paint with that large of a brush, they just don't adequately qualify what they are saying. In too many cases on this forum, instead of responding to what was actually said, other posters insist on reading words into it and applying evil motives to statements which just aren't there. To some extent you are doing that with Limbaugh here. Limbaugh is making a point, probably wrongly, that CBS is trying to cover for the protesters. You make the point the Limbaugh is trying to trash all Muslims. Limbaugh assumed a motive that probably wasn't there, but then you go and do about the same thing.

Bigot defender!!!

 

[Sinn Fein]

Maybe not a reporter but gang rapes happend every day here in the United States and I don't think it means we don't deserve democracy as a people.

No, they don't actually.

OK, so I'm definitely wrong on this. Especially if you take into account prison gang rapes. There are at least 365 gang rapes per year.

125,000 rapes in the US in 2009Not sure how many classify as "gang rapes", but the US has one of the higher rape "per-capita rates" in the world. Some of that has to do with greater openness in terms of victims reporting the attack (i.e. in many countries reporting a sexual assault would bring more shame upon the victim), but we can be a pretty unsavory lot.

 

[timschochet]

I think large number of the disagreements on this forum has to do with people being anal over semantics. If you don't phrase things just right, someone gets offended and reads words into statements which aren't there.

Can you be more specific? What are you referring to?

Like on this thread you are worried about how people characterize all Muslims as extremists. The thread yesterday, people got upset with you because you implied anyone who thinks Obama should release his birth certificate were bigots. I think in most cases people are not intending to paint with that large of a brush, they just don't adequately qualify what they are saying. In too many cases on this forum, instead of responding to what was actually said, other posters insist on reading words into it and applying evil motives to statements which just aren't there. To some extent you are doing that with Limbaugh here. Limbaugh is making a point, probably wrongly, that CBS is trying to cover for the protesters. You make the point the Limbaugh is trying to trash all Muslims. Limbaugh assumed a motive that probably wasn't there, but then you go and do about the same thing.

I have my weaknesses, and I've acknowledged them. I recognize that I generalize a little bit too easily, and I need to watch that and stop myself when that happens. Hopefully for me I will.But I am not analogous to Rush Limbaugh. Even if everything I wrote in this forum were read by everyone here, I wouldn't have a trillionth of the influence on other people that Rush and a few others do. I believe that when he characterizes a majority of Muslims as extremist, he does us all harm. I think when he mischaracterizes the media's intentions as he has in this case, in order to help prove what is perhaps the main theme of his entire career, that the mainstream media is leftist and not be trusted, he does us all harm.With regard to the media, look at the effects of Rush's 20 year war against them. Not just conservatives, but independents and some progressives as well believe that the mainstream news is biased toward liberalism. This has served to deligitimize the news in this country and allowed for partisan networks like Fox and MSNBC to be treated with the same level of trust by the public. Liberals watch MSNBC and conservatives watch Fox, whereas it used to be that everybody watched Walter Cronkite. Rush has contributed to this state of affairs in no small way by spreading his false information.

 

[Fennis]

So wait, was it reported whether she was raped?

no

 

[Jewell]

Maybe not a reporter but gang rapes happend every day here in the United States and I don't think it means we don't deserve democracy as a people.

No, they don't actually.

OK, so I'm definitely wrong on this. Especially if you take into account prison gang rapes. There are at least 365 gang rapes per year.

125,000 rapes in the US in 2009Not sure how many classify as "gang rapes", but the US has one of the higher rape "per-capita rates" in the world. Some of that has to do with greater openness in terms of victims reporting the attack (i.e. in many countries reporting a sexual assault would bring more shame upon the victim), but we can be a pretty unsavory lot.

True. In some nations it actually goes beyond shame -- the victim of the rape will also later be physically assaulted for the shame she brought to the family. Some nations have also stacked the deck against rape victims. Namely, a handful of jurisdictions require that there be four witnesses to the rape. Some nations also maintain marital rape exemption laws that we've made illegal, and we've extended rape to include date rape, drugged rape (as we should have). Outside of Europe I'm unsure how many other nations have extended the definition of rape like this to further protect women.Americans are definitely an unsavory lot, but I think our strict rape laws contribute as much to our high statistics as does our unsavoriness. I'd still like to have more perpetrator shame on this issue, but it's hard to shame the shameless.

 

[jon_mx]

I think large number of the disagreements on this forum has to do with people being anal over semantics. If you don't phrase things just right, someone gets offended and reads words into statements which aren't there.

Can you be more specific? What are you referring to?

Like on this thread you are worried about how people characterize all Muslims as extremists. The thread yesterday, people got upset with you because you implied anyone who thinks Obama should release his birth certificate were bigots. I think in most cases people are not intending to paint with that large of a brush, they just don't adequately qualify what they are saying. In too many cases on this forum, instead of responding to what was actually said, other posters insist on reading words into it and applying evil motives to statements which just aren't there. To some extent you are doing that with Limbaugh here. Limbaugh is making a point, probably wrongly, that CBS is trying to cover for the protesters. You make the point the Limbaugh is trying to trash all Muslims. Limbaugh assumed a motive that probably wasn't there, but then you go and do about the same thing.

I have my weaknesses, and I've acknowledged them. I recognize that I generalize a little bit too easily, and I need to watch that and stop myself when that happens. Hopefully for me I will.But I am not analogous to Rush Limbaugh. Even if everything I wrote in this forum were read by everyone here, I wouldn't have a trillionth of the influence on other people that Rush and a few others do. I believe that when he characterizes a majority of Muslims as extremist, he does us all harm. I think when he mischaracterizes the media's intentions as he has in this case, in order to help prove what is perhaps the main theme of his entire career, that the mainstream media is leftist and not be trusted, he does us all harm.With regard to the media, look at the effects of Rush's 20 year war against them. Not just conservatives, but independents and some progressives as well believe that the mainstream news is biased toward liberalism. This has served to deligitimize the news in this country and allowed for partisan networks like Fox and MSNBC to be treated with the same level of trust by the public. Liberals watch MSNBC and conservatives watch Fox, whereas it used to be that everybody watched Walter Cronkite. Rush has contributed to this state of affairs in no small way by spreading his false information.

Rush may have jumped to conclusions and is way off base here, but the media is bias to the left. You agree with the bias in most cases, so the bias does not bother you. I watched the media my whole life and it infuriates me the way they cover the stories. They do such a piss poor job at presenting the conservative side of a story. It may not bother you that the other side of stories on issues surrounding gay marriage, global warming, spending, or abortion are not given a fair shake, but for me it is an outrageous slant that makes many of the mainstream sources unwatchable.

 

[higgins]

link

A World Commanded By The Middle

What Egypt and Tunisia and all the revolutions to come tell us about globalization’s political future is that the emerging middle class – not bad actors, will drive it. For years now we’ve been regaled with stories of how Islamic extremists and criminal networks and state capitalism would somehow keep the decaying West on its heels. The West, in turn, interpreted this dark future primarily in terms of its own threatened middle-class status, imagining no cavalry over the horizon.

Clearly, we thought too small.

Goldman Sachs estimates that 70 million souls join the global middle class annually – just a bit above al-Qaeda’s annual recruitment, you might say. The Economist says that, if we go as low as $10 per capita per day, we’re talking about roughly 60 percent of humanity. You can do the math on where this cohort must be growing fastest, because it sure ain’t in the advanced West. Instead, it grows fastest in many of those “mostly unfree” states that those in the West imagine all subscribe to some unspoken “Beijing consensus,” which, as far as we can see, consists mostly of China seeking long-term access to those states’ resources and markets – agreed?

Arguably, we’ve got our globalization narrative all backwards nowadays. The United States started this party after World War II, and has nurtured and defended it ever since. So naturally, the US must be driving this resurgent “freedom agenda,” right? And yet, because China’s stunning rise drives all this new connectivity while jacking up commodity prices worldwide, it’s actually Beijing that’s exporting revolution in ways it would never admit.

We may think China will remain forever immune to the same shock-waves it so effortlessly transmits around the planet, but history says otherwise. What saves China’s Communist Party from Mubarak’s fate right now is the sheer magnitude of its own internal income gap – those 700 million interior poor living at Guatemala’s standard of living. For now, the train’s engine (coastal middle-class China) can’t go any faster than its caboose (those unwashed masses further in).

But outside of that civilization-masquerading-as-a-nation-state, a rising middle class need not be of world-beating size to trigger society-wide demands for a better future from a more responsive government. Global connectivity, coupled with higher education, doesn’t just advantage revolutionary terrorists. These also allow for the flash-mob mobilization of non-violent democracy activists, who, in their far greater numbers, can signal their intent to paralyze entire national systems in ways terrorists can only dream of.

Simply put, Karl Marx aimed too low on class.

For what do the poor want from the government but protection from their circumstances? So they glumly suffer authoritarianism, if that’s what it takes to shield them from even worse. The rich, such as they are found in the world’s many oligarchic economies, seek only protection from the poor.

But what the middle class wants is that which is hardest for any government to deliver: protection from the future. These families have achieved a decent standard of living, or are close enough to see one emerging, and they want that nest egg protected from life’s vicissitudes, so that it may be passed along to the next generation.

You know that counterinsurgency bit about killing some villager and then having to face his entire avenging family? Well, the same is true with an emerging middle class. Deny their lead elements they seek and your government will soon enough find itself battling expectations extending far into the future. To say the least, that is one tough monster to feed.

And soon enough, governments the world over will all be serving that same ravenous beast.

Referenced from Wikistrat: http://www.wikistrat.com/geopolitical-anal.../#ixzz1EKCpKpqd

 

[Jewell]

The crowd (estimated at 100K) sounds like they're behind the message at the end of this video. Netanyahu and company should hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

BACKGROUND: Ownership of the al-Aqsa Mosque is a contentious issue in the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Israel claims sovereignty over the mosque along with all of the Temple Mount (Noble Sanctuary), but Palestinians hold unofficial custodianship of the site through the Islamic waqf. During the negotiations at the 2000 Camp David Summit, Palestinians demanded complete ownership of the mosque and other Islamic holy sites in East Jerusalem.

 

[flapgreen]

Has it gone down yet?

 

[higgins]

link

Frontline

Revolution in Cairo

February 22, 2011 at 9:00pm

FRONTLINE dispatches teams to Cairo, going inside the youth movement that helped light the fire on the streets. We follow the "April 6" group, which two years ago began making a bold use of the Internet for their underground resistance -- tactics that led to jail and torture for many of their leaders. Now, starting with the "Day of Rage," we witness those same leaders plot strategy and head into "Liberation Square" to try to bring down President Mubarak. Also in this hour, veteran Middle East correspondent Charles Sennott of GlobalPost lands in Cairo for FRONTLINE to take a hard look at Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood -- the most well-organized and powerful of the country's opposition groups -- as a new fight for power in Egypt begins to takes shape.

FRONTLINE GOES INSIDE THE YOUTH MOVEMENT THAT IGNITED THE UPRISING IN EGYPT, AND INVESTIGATES THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD

FRONTLINE Special Report from Egypt

Revolution in Cairo

Tuesday, February 22, 2011, at 9 P.M. ET on PBS

As the protest movement in Egypt continues to send shock waves throughout the country—and the world—FRONTLINE dispatches teams to Cairo for this special report.

In Revolution in Cairo, airing Tuesday, Feb. 22, 2011, at 9 P.M. ET on PBS (check local listings), FRONTLINE goes inside the group that ignited the uprising, following key leaders of the April 6 Youth Movement as they plot strategy, then head out into the Tahrir Square hoping to bring down President Hosni Mubarak. Also in this hour, veteran Middle East correspondent Charles Sennott of GlobalPost, reporting for FRONTLINE, lands in Cairo to take a hard look at Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood—the most well-organized and powerful of the country’s opposition groups—as a new fight for power in Egypt begins to takes shape.

“This is a story that no one could have predicted, and everyone now wants to know more about,” says FRONTLINE executive producer David Fanning. “We’re using our new monthly magazine to be able to respond quickly to timely events and help fill the need for added depth and insight on these important breaking stories.”

In this hour’s lead story, Revolution in Cairo, FRONTLINE gains unique access to the April 6 group, tracing the long road these young Egyptian activists took to Tahrir Square, as they’ve made increasingly bold use of the Internet in their underground resistance over the last few years. Through sites like Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, the members of April 6 and related groups helped organize a political movement that the secret police did not understand and could not stop, despite the arrest and torture of some of the movement’s key members.

For the second story, Inside the Muslim Brotherhood, GlobalPost’s Charles Sennott is on the ground in Cairo for FRONTLINE to investigate the Muslim Brotherhood, the controversial but poorly understood Islamist political movement that’s poised to play a key role in Egypt’s future. While the group was absent in Tahrir Square when young demonstrators first ignited Egypt’s revolt, the Brotherhood assumed a larger role over the course of the protests, taking frontline positions in rock-throwing battles with regime supporters and helping to run emergency medical clinics. Now that the Muslim Brotherhood stands to take a prominent place at the negotiating table, we examine what the group believes and how it may influence politics in the country and the region.

Leading up to the Feb. 22, broadcast, the website will feature an ongoing “social timeline” of the Revolution in Cairo, combining dispatches, photos and video from our team in Cairo with curated Tweets, Flickr photos, YouTube video and blog posts from the scene. In addition, FRONTLINE (@FrontlineWRLD) will be tweeting (#RevolutionInCairo) during the broadcast and hosting an open chat with producers on our website following the broadcast.

Revolution in Cairo is co-production with GlobalPost and is written and senior produced by Michael Kirk and Martin Smith. The special correspondent is Charles Sennott of GlobalPost. The series senior producer of FRONTLINE is Raney Aronson-Rath. The executive producer of FRONTLINE is David Fanning.

Reminder..

 

[jamny]

Egypt protest hero Wael Ghonim barred from stage

Google executive Wael Ghonim, who emerged as a leading voice in Egypt's uprising, was barred from the stage in Tahrir Square on Friday by security guards, an AFP photographer said. Ghonim tried to take the stage in Tahrir, the epicentre of anti-regime protests that toppled President Hosni Mubarak, but men who appeared to be guarding influential Muslim cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi barred him from doing so.

Ghonim, who was angered by the episode, then left the square with his face hidden by an Egyptian flag.

Qaradawi gave a Friday sermon in the square, where hundreds of thousands of people gathered a week after Mubarak's fall, in which he called for Arab leaders to listen to their people.

Ghonim, Google's head of marketing for the Middle East and North Africa, administered a Facebook page that helped spark the uprising that toppled Mubarak's regime.

The 30-year-old also appeared in an emotional television interview shortly after he was released from police custody after 12 days in custody which is credited with re-energising the movement just as it seemed to be losing steam.

In an interview with CBS's "60 Minutes" that aired on Sunday, Ghonim said the protests which led to Mubarak's ouster would not have happened without online social networks.

"If there was no social networks it would have never been sparked," he said.

"Because the whole thing before the revolution was the most critical thing. Without Facebook, without Twitter, without Google, without YouTube, this would have never happened."

 

[Jewell]

The crowd (estimated at 100K) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESKXSh7CXY4&feature=youtube_gdata_player" target="_blank">sounds like they're behind the message at the end of this video</a>. Netanyahu and company should hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

BACKGROUND: Ownership of the al-Aqsa Mosque is a contentious issue in the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Israel claims sovereignty over the mosque along with all of the Temple Mount (Noble Sanctuary), but Palestinians hold unofficial custodianship of the site through the Islamic waqf. During the negotiations at the 2000 Camp David Summit, Palestinians demanded complete ownership of the mosque and other Islamic holy sites in East Jerusalem.

Now two million Egyptians gather in Tahrir Square and chant: "To Jerusalem we are heading, martyrs in the millions"

 

[snitwitch]

link

Frontline

Revolution in Cairo

February 22, 2011 at 9:00pm

FRONTLINE dispatches teams to Cairo, going inside the youth movement that helped light the fire on the streets. We follow the "April 6" group, which two years ago began making a bold use of the Internet for their underground resistance -- tactics that led to jail and torture for many of their leaders. Now, starting with the "Day of Rage," we witness those same leaders plot strategy and head into "Liberation Square" to try to bring down President Mubarak. Also in this hour, veteran Middle East correspondent Charles Sennott of GlobalPost lands in Cairo for FRONTLINE to take a hard look at Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood -- the most well-organized and powerful of the country's opposition groups -- as a new fight for power in Egypt begins to takes shape.

FRONTLINE GOES INSIDE THE YOUTH MOVEMENT THAT IGNITED THE UPRISING IN EGYPT, AND INVESTIGATES THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD

FRONTLINE Special Report from Egypt

Revolution in Cairo

Tuesday, February 22, 2011, at 9 P.M. ET on PBS

As the protest movement in Egypt continues to send shock waves throughout the country—and the world—FRONTLINE dispatches teams to Cairo for this special report.

In Revolution in Cairo, airing Tuesday, Feb. 22, 2011, at 9 P.M. ET on PBS (check local listings), FRONTLINE goes inside the group that ignited the uprising, following key leaders of the April 6 Youth Movement as they plot strategy, then head out into the Tahrir Square hoping to bring down President Hosni Mubarak. Also in this hour, veteran Middle East correspondent Charles Sennott of GlobalPost, reporting for FRONTLINE, lands in Cairo to take a hard look at Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood—the most well-organized and powerful of the country’s opposition groups—as a new fight for power in Egypt begins to takes shape.

“This is a story that no one could have predicted, and everyone now wants to know more about,” says FRONTLINE executive producer David Fanning. “We’re using our new monthly magazine to be able to respond quickly to timely events and help fill the need for added depth and insight on these important breaking stories.”

In this hour’s lead story, Revolution in Cairo, FRONTLINE gains unique access to the April 6 group, tracing the long road these young Egyptian activists took to Tahrir Square, as they’ve made increasingly bold use of the Internet in their underground resistance over the last few years. Through sites like Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, the members of April 6 and related groups helped organize a political movement that the secret police did not understand and could not stop, despite the arrest and torture of some of the movement’s key members.

For the second story, Inside the Muslim Brotherhood, GlobalPost’s Charles Sennott is on the ground in Cairo for FRONTLINE to investigate the Muslim Brotherhood, the controversial but poorly understood Islamist political movement that’s poised to play a key role in Egypt’s future. While the group was absent in Tahrir Square when young demonstrators first ignited Egypt’s revolt, the Brotherhood assumed a larger role over the course of the protests, taking frontline positions in rock-throwing battles with regime supporters and helping to run emergency medical clinics. Now that the Muslim Brotherhood stands to take a prominent place at the negotiating table, we examine what the group believes and how it may influence politics in the country and the region.

Leading up to the Feb. 22, broadcast, the website will feature an ongoing “social timeline” of the Revolution in Cairo, combining dispatches, photos and video from our team in Cairo with curated Tweets, Flickr photos, YouTube video and blog posts from the scene. In addition, FRONTLINE (@FrontlineWRLD) will be tweeting (#RevolutionInCairo) during the broadcast and hosting an open chat with producers on our website following the broadcast.

Revolution in Cairo is co-production with GlobalPost and is written and senior produced by Michael Kirk and Martin Smith. The special correspondent is Charles Sennott of GlobalPost. The series senior producer of FRONTLINE is Raney Aronson-Rath. The executive producer of FRONTLINE is David Fanning.

Reminder..

Watching this now, extremely interesting.

 

[jamny]

Egypt's cabinet, under attack, meets for first time

CAIRO (Reuters) – Egypt's new cabinet met for the first time on Wednesday with security high on its agenda and under attack from the Muslim Brotherhood and others who want it purged of ministers appointed by ousted president Hosni Mubarak.

In preparation for polls that military rulers have promised to hand over power to civilian rule in six months, activists announced the forming of a new political party on Wednesday.

The Brotherhood and other political groups have called for another million-man-march on Friday to fill Cairo's central Tahrir Square, which was the nerve-center for opposition to Mubarak's 30-year iron rule, to call for a new cabinet.

Banned under Mubarak and playing an increasingly active role in Egyptian political life since the 18-day uprising that toppled Mubarak, the Brotherhood wants the lifting of emergency law, freeing of political prisoners and a purge of the cabinet.

The cabinet will discuss security issues in the post-Mubarak era and the provision of basic foods and subsidies on Wednesday, political sources said. Despite political pressure, there are unlikely to be further changes in the cabinet, they added.

Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, head of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces that is running the Arab world's most populous nation, swore in 10 new ministers on Tuesday, some who had opposed Mubarak, but key portfolios were unchanged.

"The main ministries of defense, justice, interior and foreign remain unchanged, signaling Egypt's politics remain in the hands of Mubarak and his cronies," senior Brotherhood member Essam el-Erian told Reuters, reacting to the new line-up.

In the run-up to presidential and parliamentary elections, a committee is amending the constitution to dismantle the apparatus that propped up Mubarak's rule and political parties are being registered ahead of the polls.

"EGYPT THE FREE"

A former diplomat, Abdallah Alashaal, was quoted by MENA news agency on Wednesday as saying he was setting up a new political party "Egypt the Free" to participate in the polls.

"The establishment of the party comes within the framework and desire to make a real representation of the youth of January 25 revolution during the coming period," Alashaal said.

The Brotherhood and youth groups are anxious that the emergency law, imposed after the assassination of Anwar Sadat by Islamist soldiers from his army in 1981, be lifted but some Cairo residents were not so sure.

"For now, they shouldn't cancel the emergency law because there are thousands and thousands of thugs out there but ultimately, yes, they have to remove it because police were mistreating lot of people through it," Somaya Mohamed, a retiree, told Reuters on Wednesday.

"I don't see anything wrong with the politics of (prime minister) Ahmed Shafiq, he has a white track record," he said, adding: "I think the youth is simply against anything that the president said that's all, they wanted to put an end to him and whatever he said."

Another priority facing the cabinet is getting the nation back to work and to stop the protests and strikes that have damaged an economy that had already been damaged by the turmoil of the revolution which erupted on January 25.

The Egyptian stock market, which closed two days after the uprising started, has announced that it will stay shut until next week.

 

[TommyGilmore]

The Frontline piece was very well done, even though it only touched on a small aspect of the protests. The insight into the Muslim Brotherhood was enlightening as well. Perhaps they are not as much of a bogeyman as previously reported, although it was clear by the end of the report that the anti-Israel sentiment runs very strong with them.

 

[jamny]

link

Post-Mubarak Egypt has Islamists calling for modesty police

Call adds to concerns among liberals that the country is going Islamic after attacks on Muslim mystic tombs, Christians.

Officials of the Al-Gama’a Al-Islamiyya, one of Egypt's leading Islamic groups, have called for the establishment of a Saudi-style modesty police to combat "immoral" behavior in public areas in what observers say in another sign of a growing Islamic self-confidence in the post-Mubarak era.

Al-Gama'a has taken part in armed attacks in Egypt in the 1980s and 1990s, the most famous of which – the assassination of President Anwar Sadat in 1981. But now the group, which is officially still outlawed, has indicated its intention to join Egypt's new political arena.

In the political sphere, the Gama’a supported the larger Muslim Brotherhood’s successful drive to get voters to approve a package of constitutional amendments. On the street level, at least 20 attacks were perpetrated against the tombs of Muslim mystics (suffis), who are the subject of popular veneration but disparaged by Islamic fundamentalists, or salafis. After some initial hesitation, Islamic leaders have publicly praised the revolution.

"This is incredibly worrying to many Egyptians," Maye Kassem, a political scientist at the American University in Cairo (AUC), told The Media Line. "The salafis were always undercover in Egypt and now they are emerging as a political force. They are getting too vocal."

Newly freed from the political strictures of the Mubarak era, Egypt has turned into a battleground between those who envision a liberal, secular state and those who advocate various shades if Islam. The conflict mirrors those taking place elsewhere in the region. In Bahrain, unrest has evolved into a conflict between Sunni- and Shiite Muslims and the U.S. has pulled back from supporting Libyan rebels over concerns they are dominated by Islamists.

Issam Durbala, a member of the Gama’a’s Shura council, told the Egyptian daily Al-Masri Al-Youm on Sunday, that he supported the establishment of a virtue police, or Hisbah, which had existed in medieval Islamic societies to oversee public virtue and modesty, mostly in the marketplace and other public gathering spaces.

But he seemed to stop short of advocating a force along then lines of that which operates in Saudi Arabia today under the auspices of the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice. It enforces a dress code, separation of sexes and the observances of prayer times.

"The new police must have a department with limited authorities to arrest those who commit immoral acts,” Durbala told the newspaper.

Nevertheless, liberal, secular Egyptians, who led the protests that brought down President Husni Mubarak and ushered in a new but as yet undefined era in Egypt, regard the proposal as the latest sign that Islamists are emerging as the dominant force in the country.

Sa'id Abd Al-Azim, a leader of the salafi movement in Alexandria, attacked Egyptian "liberals" for waging a media campaign against his movement.

"Despite the attacks against the salafi movement, it is constantly advancing – untouched by the attack," Abd Al-Azim told Al-Masry Al-Youm. "If the Christians want safety they should submit to the rule of God and be confident that the Islamic sharia [law] will protect them."

But it was not only Islamic fundamentalists who foresaw a growing role for Islam in Egypt. In an editorial published in the New York Times April 1, Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, the country's leading religious figure, condemned the attacks saying they harmed Islamic unity. But he said the world must expect a more Islamic, albeit tolerant, Egypt.

"Egypt is a deeply religious society," Gomaa wrote. "It is inevitable that Islam will have a place in our democratic political order … while religion cannot be completely separated from politics, we can ensure that it is not abused for political gain."

Last Tuesday, Egypt's foreign minister, Nabil Al-Arabi, said his country was interested in "opening a new page with all countries, including Iran," which he said was "not an enemy state." Egypt and Iran have not enjoyed full diplomatic relations since 1979, when Iran's Islamic revolution took place and Egypt signed a historic peace treaty with Israel and gave shelter to the ailing Shah of Iran. On Wednesday, Iranian foreign minister Ali Akbar Salehi welcomed the Egyptian overture and said he hoped to witness an "expansion of ties" between the two countries.

Nagib Gibrail, a Coptic attorney and head of the Egyptian Union of Human Rights, said the Egyptian revolution had been kidnapped by Islamist radicals.

"There are areas in Egypt where Christian girls can't walk outside after eight o'clock in the evening for fear of being kidnapped," Gibrail told The Media Line. "Moderate Muslims should be more scared than Christians. It is very worrying that the military regime hasn't issued a statement declaring Egypt a secular state."

Maye Kassem of AUC said parliamentary elections should be postponed in order to allow smaller liberal opposition groups to properly organize. Parliamentary elections are to be held by September, with presidential elections following a month or two later, according to a timetable announced by the government last week.

"We need a longer transition period," Kassem said. "Otherwise, we will revert to a dictatorship which is not what we were fighting for."

In a four-page essay titled "The Tsunami of Change," American-Yemeni cleric Anwar Al-Awlaki, an Al-Qaeda propagandist, referred last week to the popular protest movements sweeping the Arab world.

"I wonder whether the West is aware of the upsurge of mujahedeen activity in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Yemen, Arabia, Algeria and Morocco?" Al-Awlaki wrote in the English language Al-Qaeda magazine Inspire. "The mujahedeen around the world are going through a moment of elation.”

 

[Jewell]

link

Post-Mubarak Egypt has Islamists calling for modesty police

But, Jamny, those are Islamists and as we all know Islamists will not rise to power in Egypt. Remember, the media told us that Mohamed ElBaradei (the reasoned voice of the peaceful, secular movement) was going to rise to power.

TEHRAN (April 4, 2011) – Mohamed ElBaradei, former IAEA chief and potential presidential candidate in Egypt’s upcoming elections, has stated that if Israel attacked Gaza again Egypt would not be a silent spectator and could make a counterattack, a website reported.

“If Israel attacked Gaza we would declare war against the Zionist regime,” former Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) was quoted as saying by the Donya Al-Watan website, who interviewed ElBaradei on Thursday.

“In case of any future Israeli attack on Gaza, he (ElBaradei) — as the next president of Egypt — will open Rafah border crossing and will consider different ways to implement the joint Arab defense agreement, ElBaradei said.

From occupiedpalestine.com

 

[bueno]

I have a friend in Egypt that is a copt. They have had their church burned down and several copts have been beaten. Really concerned how this revolution is going.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So wait, was it reported whether she was raped?

No. She is telling her story right now on 60 Minutes though.

 

[higgins]

link

Islamist Leader Pursues Egypt's Presidency

By MATT BRADLEY

CAIRO—A popular reformist leader in Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said he will run for president, in a move that raises the possibility that Islamist politicians could dominate the country's presidency and its parliament.

The announcement by Abdel Moneim Aboul Fotouh, the 59-year-old head of the Arab Doctors' Union and a member of the Brotherhood's legislative Shura Council, marks a break with the group's leadership.

The organization months earlier promised not to field a candidate in the presidential election, in order to quell concerns that Islamists sought to take power in the wake of the revolution that toppled President Hosni Mubarak in February.

On Thursday, the Brotherhood distanced itself from Dr. Aboul Fotouh, suggesting he could be suspended from the organization because of his candidacy if he doesn't resign first. He has said he will run as an independent.

The Political Rise of the Muslim Brotherhood

Feb. 11, 2011 Fall of Hosni Mubarak; Muslim Brotherhood youth activists play a critical role in the protest movement.

Feb. 12 Brotherhood says it won't field a presidential candidate to avoid concerns of an Islamist takeover. Members says it won't seek majority in parliament.

April 30 Brotherhood officials unveil political party, Freedom and Justice, which it says will compete for half the seats in parliament.

May 12 Brotherhood reformer Abdel Moneim Aboul Fotouh says he will run for president. Group warns he may be expelled.

The Muslim Brotherhood, though outlawed under the Mubarak regime, is the country's most powerful political organization, having built support throughout the country as a health and education charity.

Though it disavowed violence in the 1970s and preaches a relatively moderate form of political Islam, some Western governments worry that an Egypt under Brotherhood control could reshape regional politics, particularly if it were to cancel a peace treaty with Israel. The Brotherhood has said it stands by the treaty.

Concerns that the group's political aspirations are growing were stoked late last month when its new political party, Freedom and Justice, announced it would vie for as many as half of parliamentary seats.

The organization had assured the Egyptian public that it wouldn't nominate candidates for more than one-third of the seats in September elections. Brotherhood leaders denied a policy change, saying they increased the number of nominees to make sure they would win one-third of the seats.

Dr. Aboul Fotouh is widely considered the leader of a more moderate group within the Brotherhood's leadership. He has advocated a positive relationship with the West, more rights for women and religious minorities, and democratic reform within the party's top-down leadership structure.

New Candidate

Abdel Moneim Aboul Fotouh

1975 President of Cairo University Student Union.

1984 Helps Muslim Brotherhood make parliamentary debut.

1987 Elected to the Brotherhood's executive office.

1996-2001 Jailed as member of the illegal Brotherhood.

2004 Secretary General of the Arab Doctors' Union.

2009 Jailed again, for five months. Resigns executive post

Source: Candidate's website

At the forefront of his reformist stance are his calls for a commitment to separating the Brotherhood's work as a religious organization from its political activities. Some members, particularly youthful activists, have said Freedom and Justice isn't adequately independent from the Brotherhood.

Dr. Aboul Fotouh's decision to run for president worried moderate Egyptian Muslims and the country's Christian minority, who have anxiously watched the recent political rise of Islamists and have been shaken by months of violent sectarian clashes. Sectarian riots on Saturday killed 15 people and wounded several hundred in an impoverished Cairo suburb.

"Christians wouldn't welcome anybody of an Islamist background" as president, said Youssuf Sidhoum, the editor-in-chief of a local Coptic newspaper called Al Watani. Christians make up about 10% of Egypt's population.

While Dr. Aboul Fotouh hasn't officially left the group, members said they expect his candidacy for president will be seen as tantamount to his resignation. Dr. Aboul Fotouh was traveling on Thursday and couldn't be reached to comment.

Saad Al Katatni, the newly appointed secretary-general of the Freedom and Justice Party, said that if Dr. Aboul Fotouh doesn't resign, the group will investigate him to decide on his punishment. His membership in the group may be suspended, said Mr. Al Katatni, and the Brotherhood wouldn't consider supporting his candidacy.

"It's an unsettling message for public opinion" for a Brotherhood member to seek Egypt's top office, said Mohammed Habib, who was a member of the group's Shura Council before he resigned two months ago because he disagreed with the Brotherhood's top-down management style.

An expert on the Egyptian army said the ruling military council is committed to a democratic transition, and will back whoever the people elect.

"I think the military council and the military people in general are thinking the same way I am: that if we put conditions on anybody, this is not democracy," said Mohammed Kadry Said, a retired army major general who is an analyst at the government-funded Al Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies.

Dr. Aboul Fotouh's break with the Brotherhood leadership is a dramatic turn for an organization that, for most of its 83-year history, operated under autocratic regimes that treated most Islamists as public enemies.

For Brotherhood youth who supported the protests against the Mubarak regime, Dr. Aboul Fotouh, who began his career with the Brotherhood as a student activist, is a hero: a moderate, well-respected Islamist with a firm commitment to democratic reforms and irreproachable revolutionary chops.

During the 1970s, Dr. Aboul Fotouh made a name for himself as a student activist at Cairo University. Throughout the 1980s, he helped guide the Brotherhood beyond its roots as a charitable group and into parliamentary politics.

"He is one of the great people that the Brotherhood youth look up to and consider as a role model," said Mohammed Qassas, a youth leader in the organization. "He's a distinguished person, he represents moderate Islamism and he's got a good chance to compete."

He was instrumental in getting Brotherhood members into the leadership of Egypt's professional syndicates, which operate much like trade unions.Yet many secular-minded pro-democracy activists who helped lead the revolution that ousted Mr. Mubarak consider Dr. Aboul Fotouh as an Islamist who should be opposed.

"He has somehow broken with them, but his background is Muslim Brothers," said Mamdouh Hamza, a prominent pro-democracy activist who is organizing a secular political bloc to confront Islamism. "Do you think Egypt should have a Muslim Brother as a president? I don't."

 

[Chaos Commish]

Pew Research polled Egyptians and concluded 60% want domestic policy based on the Koran.

 

[culdeus]

Pew Research polled Egyptians and concluded 60% want domestic policy based on the Koran.

OMG

 

[Incogneto]

Pew Research polled Egyptians and concluded 60% want domestic policy based on the Koran.

is this a surprise?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Pew Research polled Egyptians and concluded 60% want domestic policy based on the Koran.

is this a surprise?

And who was it that was criticizing the president for not doing more to help the protesters in Egypt?

 

[Jewell]

Pew Research polled Egyptians and concluded 60% want domestic policy based on the Koran.

is this a surprise?

And who was it that was criticizing the president for not doing more to help the protesters in Egypt?

Just tell us who you think it was.

 

[CBusAlex]

Some more polling results from Egypt

Some notable findings:

- Only 8% used Facebook or Twitter for news about the protests

- 15% support the Muslim Brotherhood

- 69% favor an advisory role in government for religious leaders

- Egyptians are among the most religiously tolerant in the middle east, with 67% willing to welcome a neighbor of a different faith (compared to 23% in Israel )

- Two-thirds do not believe the US is serious about encouraging democracy and think the US will try to exert direct influence over Egypt's political future

- 52% oppose accepting economic aid from the US

 

[jamny]

One year later...

 

[jonessed]

Good thing we helped force Mubarak out. It's going swimmingly over there.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Good thing we helped force Mubarak out. It's going swimmingly over there.

So you think we should have supported a dictator against the will of the people?

 

[jonessed]

Good thing we helped force Mubarak out. It's going swimmingly over there.

So you think we should have supported a dictator against the will of the people?

I don't think we should have supported either side. The people that supported the uprising have less power than they did before.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

In the long run, it is economics and not politics or religion that keeps a government in power.

 

[jamny]

Egyptian PM says country won't 'back down' over NGO workers despite threats to withhold aid

Egypt's prime minister said Wednesday that the country would not "back down" over its crackdown on nonprofit groups, in the latest sign the United States is struggling to thaw the standoff that has snagged several Americans.

After the Egyptian government announced over the weekend it would refer dozens of NGO workers, including at least 16 Americans, to trial, the State Department said Wednesday it has received the "formal charging document."

Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said officials are reviewing the report, but she called on Egypt to release the Americans.

"Our view remains that this is not fundamentally a judicial issue. This is an issue between the two governments ... about the appropriate role of foreign NGOs, and frankly the Egyptian NGOs, should play in supporting democracy," she said.

The NGO offices were first raided late last year, after they were accused of operating without proper registration and improperly using foreign funds. The Egyptian government then blocked several of the NGO workers, including the son of U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, from leaving the country -- before filing charges against them.

The standoff has led to multiple calls in Washington for the U.S. to withhold the roughly $1.3 billion in aid to Egypt until the situation is resolved.

But despite the warnings from Washington, Egypt's military-backed Prime Minister Kamal el-Ganzouri said Wednesday that authorities "can't back down or won't change course because of some aid."

"Egypt used its legal right to face some violations by civil groups," he said. "The lofty judiciary moved and discussed and investigated the case. ... The West then turned against us because Egypt exercised its rights."

A recent Gallup poll suggested the aid threat might not be as potent as it sounds. According to the survey, about seven in 10 Egyptians said they oppose U.S. economic aid to the country.

With tensions rising, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey, is to travel to Egypt this week for talks with military ruler Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi. Dempsey's spokesman, Col. Dave Lapan, said Wednesday the trip has long been planned, but the nonprofit spat will come up if it hasn't been resolved. He said Dempsey would talk with Egypt's leaders about "choices and consequences," but he declined to elaborate.

Rep. Steve Chabot, chairman of the Middle East and South Asia subcommittee on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said Wednesday that he thinks the U.S. will ultimately be able to get the American NGO workers out of Egypt.

And he said the threat to withhold aid could still be effective.

"I think you have to make pretty clear ... that this isn't going to be stood for," Chabot, R-Ohio, told FoxNews.com. "They've stepped across the line here and we have to make sure they know that."

 

[jamny]

link

Muslim Brotherhood’s Morsi wins Egyptian presidential vote

Muslim Brotherhood candidate Mohamed Morsi has been declared the winner of Egypt’s presidential election.

Starting 45 minutes late, the head of the election committee spoke for another 45 minutes at a news conference, enumerating the work of his officials and detailing their review of irregularies. Voter turnout was at 51 per cent, the electoral commission said.

The results of Egypt’s first free presidential vote had been delayed for several days, giving way to wild rumours, speculation and anxiety about back room deals and suspected interference by the ruling military council in determining the outcome in favour of ousted leader Hosni Mubarak’s last Prime Minister, Ahmed Shafiq.

Gen. Shafiq and Islamist challenger Morsi had both declared that they won what was, by all accounts, a very close race.

The announcement of the president is supposed to be the end of Egypt’s post-uprising transition to democracy. However, the military made a series of last-minute moves that stripped the office of president of most of its major powers and kept those powers concentrated in the hands of the military. A court ruling a few days before that dissolved the freely elected parliament that was dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood.

In Cairo’s Tahrir Square, the birthplace of the pro-democracy uprising, a swelling crowd of thousands gathered in sweltering midday heat awaiting the announcement. They were a mix of supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood and ultraconservative Islamists known as Salafis along with some of the revolutionary youth groups that drove last year’s uprising. A separate pro-Shafiq rally of some 2000 protesters gathered in northern Cairo district of Nasr City.

Elation erupted in the square after the announcement of Mr. Morsi's win.

Egyptian police were ordered to confront any attempt to break the law with decisive force ahead of the announcement Sunday of a new president as soaring tensions in the country raised fears of a new outbreak of political violence.

A military official told The Associated Press late Saturday: “This time, we won’t be kidding. We were kind ... before” with lawbreakers, adding that a curfew can be imposed if needed. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

 

[glumpy]

After winning Egypt's presidential election, Mohammed Morsi claims to have quit the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

[cstu]

After winning Egypt's presidential election, Mohammed Morsi claims to have quit the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

[cstu]

Morsi makes himself dictator.

 

[Sand]

Morsi makes himself dictator.

I wonder if Harold Ramis knows Arabic?

 

[jonessed]

Now that Morsi has defined himself as the new dictator it seems protests are really heating up again. It will be interesting to see if/when the military steps in.

 

[Jackstraw]

It appears these people are serious about not wanting a dictator.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/11/what-the-hell-just-happened-in-egypt-ctd.html

Good on you Egypt. Go get em!

 

[Sand]

It appears these people are serious about not wanting a dictator.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/11/what-the-hell-just-happened-in-egypt-ctd.html

Good on you Egypt. Go get em!

And the Muslim Brotherhood is pretty serious about holding power - to the point of hiring rape gangs to scare off female protestors. What is it with this area of the world and rape gangs?

 

[Mello]

I'm not sure why there's not much news about it in the West, but seems that protesters against Morsy are starting to get more serious. Thousands are surrounding the Presidential Palace. Some reports that people have broken in. Other reports that Morsy may have fled.

 

[Mello]

Morsi's MistakeThe Error Behind the Uproar in EgyptSteven A. CookDecember 2, 2012Article Summary and Author BiographyMorsi and the Muslim Brotherhood think of themselves as uniquely qualified to rebuild Egypt. Moreover, they believe that they were entrusted with doing so during this year's election. Their miscalculation, though, was to think that the rest of Egypt felt the same way.STEVEN A. COOK is Hasib J. Sabbagh Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations.http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/138472/steven-a-cook/morsis-mistake

 

[cstu]

Mahmoud Ashri, a Sudanese national living in Abu Dhabi, was among the sceptics.

“I think it is good the way it is,” said the 19-year-old, when asked whether a democracy would ever work in the Middle East.

Emirati Mohammed Romainthi said he did not support the idea of a democracy.

“Everything here is fine the way it is,” said the 21-year-old Emirati. “We have a ruling family here and I think our country is better off than democratic countries.”

http://www.thenational.ae/uae/arab-youth-uncertain-about-future-of-democracy-in-middle-east

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."