Eli Manning showing some fire (1 Viewer)

[Koya]

(1) If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses. The guy might not be the leader you want and he might not have made a professional decision you agreed with and he may not be as productive as many had hope for, but he is FAR from a jerk. This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things.

This kind of sounds like your comments and opinions about Tiki.

Oh, really?When did Eli undercut his current coach?When did Eli make his post professional career far more important than his current day team, at great cost to the team?When did Eli take cuts at coaches or players past or present without RESPONDING to the accusations of someone else?They aren't even close. And seriously, just like this board got blinded by Tatum Bell love or Fred Taylor being injury prone or countless other myths that the minions follow like lemmings, many hate Eli and that is the driving force behind everything they say or think about the kid when it is not at all justified.In terms of Tiki, once again, I used to love and respect the guy... but his words and deeds over the past years made me realize that my entire opinion about him was terribly misguided.But that's ok - you will have plenty of lemming supporters bashing Eli along with you, so keep it up. It's an easy place to be, even if utterly misguided and really off the mark, objectively speaking (and that isnt saying Eli is great, or even very good... but he is a lot more than this board gives him credit for being. My guess is it goes back to the general jealousy of people and their need to drop some of these young rich players down a notch so as to make "us" feel better about being the fan, and not the player)

 

[Scruff Mcgruff]

Tiki had alot left in the tank and left for selfish reasons. Bus' tank was running on empty.

Selfish reasons? Believe it or not, not every NFL RB wants to retire at such a late age, that he is limping around like an old man by the age of 40.

Who cares. I was just saying that was the difference between Bettis and Tiki. Tiki could have been a HOF great. I think when you have a shot at the greatness Barber had, he should have went at it, for as long as he had the talent.

So he should have kept playing so he could have solidified his supposed Hall of Fame status? Wouldn't that be selfish? And if so, how is his retirement a selfish act, then?I should say, for the record, that I think Barber is just as much of a HoFer as Bettis is. I think both are borderline cases that could go either way.

I just think he shouldn't be as big-headed as he is with comments like this, and the ones he made criticizing coughlin last year when he left his teammates behind in the prime of his career.

HE DID NOT LEAVE HIS TEAMMATES BEHIND. Leaving his teammates behind would have been what Strahan is doing right now, or retiring mid-season. Barber played out the whole season, and was the Giants best player to boot!

His current comments notwithstanding, to say he was selfish for retiring when he did is just plain wrong.

What Strahan is doing now is leaving his teammates behind I agree with that.I just think Tiki has become way too conceited to be taken seriously

 

[Koya]

Tiki had alot left in the tank and left for selfish reasons. Bus' tank was running on empty.

Selfish reasons? Believe it or not, not every NFL RB wants to retire at such a late age, that he is limping around like an old man by the age of 40.

Who cares. I was just saying that was the difference between Bettis and Tiki. Tiki could have been a HOF great. I think when you have a shot at the greatness Barber had, he should have went at it, for as long as he had the talent.

So he should have kept playing so he could have solidified his supposed Hall of Fame status? Wouldn't that be selfish? And if so, how is his retirement a selfish act, then?I should say, for the record, that I think Barber is just as much of a HoFer as Bettis is. I think both are borderline cases that could go either way.

I just think he shouldn't be as big-headed as he is with comments like this, and the ones he made criticizing coughlin last year when he left his teammates behind in the prime of his career.

HE DID NOT LEAVE HIS TEAMMATES BEHIND. Leaving his teammates behind would have been what Strahan is doing right now, or retiring mid-season. Barber played out the whole season, and was the Giants best player to boot!

His current comments notwithstanding, to say he was selfish for retiring when he did is just plain wrong.

Retiring WHEN he did is NOT the issue. It is HOW he retired... not when.He retired by taking shots at his team and coaching staff all the while undermining a season to help ensure Mrs. Barber had a nice gig in the studio the following year.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Tiki had alot left in the tank and left for selfish reasons. Bus' tank was running on empty.

Selfish reasons? Believe it or not, not every NFL RB wants to retire at such a late age, that he is limping around like an old man by the age of 40.

Who cares. I was just saying that was the difference between Bettis and Tiki. Tiki could have been a HOF great. I think when you have a shot at the greatness Barber had, he should have went at it, for as long as he had the talent.

So he should have kept playing so he could have solidified his supposed Hall of Fame status? Wouldn't that be selfish? And if so, how is his retirement a selfish act, then?I should say, for the record, that I think Barber is just as much of a HoFer as Bettis is. I think both are borderline cases that could go either way.

I just think he shouldn't be as big-headed as he is with comments like this, and the ones he made criticizing coughlin last year when he left his teammates behind in the prime of his career.

HE DID NOT LEAVE HIS TEAMMATES BEHIND. Leaving his teammates behind would have been what Strahan is doing right now, or retiring mid-season. Barber played out the whole season, and was the Giants best player to boot!

His current comments notwithstanding, to say he was selfish for retiring when he did is just plain wrong.

What Strahan is doing now is leaving his teammates behind I agree with that.I just think Tiki has become way too conceited to be taken seriously

Okay, so what exactly is your point? One minute, you are saying he is selfish for retiring the way he did.

The next, you are saying he is too conceited now.

You are not connecting the dots enough for me to think you are making much sense.

The way I see it, I think Tiki Barber was/is frustrated that the best years of his career went to waste during the helm of a head coach who is obviously incapable of preparing a team well over the course of an entire season (see the Giants first half records vs. their second half records during Coughlin's reign in NY).

 

[DanFouts]

Eli whined and cried to get traded to New York on Draft Day.He deserves every ounch of crap he takes IMHO. I'll never forget the pre draft day interview ESPN did with him and how smug of a jerk he came off as. I hope he fails.

Karma baby.....Eli and Pappa wanted the Big Apple....have fun!

 

[Reaper]

lol@ all the Tiki Barber hate all of a sudden.

lol@ "All of a sudden"

 

[Tau837]

(1) If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses. The guy might not be the leader you want and he might not have made a professional decision you agreed with and he may not be as productive as many had hope for, but he is FAR from a jerk. This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things.

This kind of sounds like your comments and opinions about Tiki.

Oh, really?When did Eli undercut his current coach?When did Eli make his post professional career far more important than his current day team, at great cost to the team?When did Eli take cuts at coaches or players past or present without RESPONDING to the accusations of someone else?They aren't even close. And seriously, just like this board got blinded by Tatum Bell love or Fred Taylor being injury prone or countless other myths that the minions follow like lemmings, many hate Eli and that is the driving force behind everything they say or think about the kid when it is not at all justified.In terms of Tiki, once again, I used to love and respect the guy... but his words and deeds over the past years made me realize that my entire opinion about him was terribly misguided.But that's ok - you will have plenty of lemming supporters bashing Eli along with you, so keep it up. It's an easy place to be, even if utterly misguided and really off the mark, objectively speaking (and that isnt saying Eli is great, or even very good... but he is a lot more than this board gives him credit for being. My guess is it goes back to the general jealousy of people and their need to drop some of these young rich players down a notch so as to make "us" feel better about being the fan, and not the player)

Nice of you to dismiss everyone else as being a lemming if they don't agree with your opinion here. Your characterization of where those on the other side of this issue from you are coming from is completely off base, at least for me.I don't love Tiki, I don't think he is a HOFer, and I think he could and should have handled last season better. But he was a great player for the Giants the past 5 years and deserves respect for his accomplishments.I don't hate Eli, but I see him for what he is - an average QB who is not living up to expectations and does not have a personality that helps him overcome that, either on the field or in the media. I wouldn't know about the locker room, but I Tiki's comments suggest that his personality doesn't help him there either.As an objective observer who doesn't like or dislike the Giants or Tiki or Eli, I think Tiki's response is being way overblown in this thread. It wasn't a big deal, and I doubt anyone other than Eli would think it is... and the only reason Eli thinks so is that it hits uncomfortably close to the mark.Oh yeah, and I think you need counseling.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

(1) If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses. The guy might not be the leader you want and he might not have made a professional decision you agreed with and he may not be as productive as many had hope for, but he is FAR from a jerk. This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things.

This kind of sounds like your comments and opinions about Tiki.

Oh, really?When did Eli undercut his current coach?When did Eli make his post professional career far more important than his current day team, at great cost to the team?When did Eli take cuts at coaches or players past or present without RESPONDING to the accusations of someone else?They aren't even close. And seriously, just like this board got blinded by Tatum Bell love or Fred Taylor being injury prone or countless other myths that the minions follow like lemmings, many hate Eli and that is the driving force behind everything they say or think about the kid when it is not at all justified.In terms of Tiki, once again, I used to love and respect the guy... but his words and deeds over the past years made me realize that my entire opinion about him was terribly misguided.But that's ok - you will have plenty of lemming supporters bashing Eli along with you, so keep it up. It's an easy place to be, even if utterly misguided and really off the mark, objectively speaking (and that isnt saying Eli is great, or even very good... but he is a lot more than this board gives him credit for being. My guess is it goes back to the general jealousy of people and their need to drop some of these young rich players down a notch so as to make "us" feel better about being the fan, and not the player)

My comment is in reference to this comment of yours: "If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses."Your hatred for Tiki is readily apparent throughout this thread. Also, the last sentence: "This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things."Seems to me you are doing the exact same thing you are pointing fingers about.

 

[The Ghost of Common]

Koya -

I dislike Eli SOLELY because of the smug interview he gave right before being selected by the Chargers. Basically calling them out and warning them that if they selected him they would "understand the consequences"

A completely NFL Unproven namesake who is directing an entire NFL franchise what to do. Just came off extremely poorly and he is one of those guys I've rooted for to fail ever since seeing that interview and his attitude. I know you feel it's justifiable - I don't.

My disdain for Eli has nothing to do with FBG, I thought he was a jerk before I even logged on.

 

[Koya]

Koya -I dislike Eli SOLELY because of the smug interview he gave right before being selected by the Chargers. Basically calling them out and warning them that if they selected him they would "understand the consequences"A completely NFL Unproven namesake who is directing an entire NFL franchise what to do. Just came off extremely poorly and he is one of those guys I've rooted for to fail ever since seeing that interview and his attitude. I know you feel it's justifiable - I don't.My disdain for Eli has nothing to do with FBG, I thought he was a jerk before I even logged on.

I am not claiming the cause of the Eli-hate is FBGs. But FBGs is full of people much like you that can't stand Eli. I can understand that - however many of these same people do not acknowledge how BIASED they are int heir assessment of Eli as a player. They claim that Giants fans are biased in favor of him (and by and large we are to a degree...) but they refuse to acknowledge that their anti-bias is probably stronger than most Giants fans pro bias. It has reached the point of absurdity over the past couple of years where many people's opinions of Eli are made through such jaded and negative glasses that those opinions can hardly count for much. Now, this has happened before with players on this sight - pro hype and anti hype - but the lack of people's ability to even acknowledge their bias is frustrating at times.

 

[Koya]

(1) If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses. The guy might not be the leader you want and he might not have made a professional decision you agreed with and he may not be as productive as many had hope for, but he is FAR from a jerk. This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things.

This kind of sounds like your comments and opinions about Tiki.

Oh, really?When did Eli undercut his current coach?When did Eli make his post professional career far more important than his current day team, at great cost to the team?When did Eli take cuts at coaches or players past or present without RESPONDING to the accusations of someone else?They aren't even close. And seriously, just like this board got blinded by Tatum Bell love or Fred Taylor being injury prone or countless other myths that the minions follow like lemmings, many hate Eli and that is the driving force behind everything they say or think about the kid when it is not at all justified.In terms of Tiki, once again, I used to love and respect the guy... but his words and deeds over the past years made me realize that my entire opinion about him was terribly misguided.But that's ok - you will have plenty of lemming supporters bashing Eli along with you, so keep it up. It's an easy place to be, even if utterly misguided and really off the mark, objectively speaking (and that isnt saying Eli is great, or even very good... but he is a lot more than this board gives him credit for being. My guess is it goes back to the general jealousy of people and their need to drop some of these young rich players down a notch so as to make "us" feel better about being the fan, and not the player)

My comment is in reference to this comment of yours: "If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses."Your hatred for Tiki is readily apparent throughout this thread. Also, the last sentence: "This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things."Seems to me you are doing the exact same thing you are pointing fingers about.

Actually, I am not at all doing the same thing. Once again, degree and context is everything - yet seem to be utterly ignored by most here.First, I admit my bias as a Giant fan. Shouldnt that mean that say last year, while Tiki was still ripping up the league, that I would have been blinded in favor of him? Quite to the contrary, I was becoming more negative with each passing week of the Tiki saga and his self indulgent, anti team mentality.I have very rational reasons to not like Tiki. I have rationale reasons that explain why, as much as he helped the Giants last year, he also HURT them.However, people's hatred of Eli stems from a professional decision made a couple years ago and has very little to do with his actual production on the field. As has been stated, while he hasn't lived to expectations, he is hardly a failure at this point and we may not know that for 2 more years.Yet, people LOVE to pile on Eli and the FBG bandwagon approach is in full play. I am hardly on the anti tiki bandwagon, as there is none. Though I am trying my best to get it moving because of how much respect I lost for the man and how he treated one of the great franchises in sports, his teamates, his coach and the fans.

 

[The Ghost of Common]

Koya -I dislike Eli SOLELY because of the smug interview he gave right before being selected by the Chargers. Basically calling them out and warning them that if they selected him they would "understand the consequences"A completely NFL Unproven namesake who is directing an entire NFL franchise what to do. Just came off extremely poorly and he is one of those guys I've rooted for to fail ever since seeing that interview and his attitude. I know you feel it's justifiable - I don't.My disdain for Eli has nothing to do with FBG, I thought he was a jerk before I even logged on.

I am not claiming the cause of the Eli-hate is FBGs. But FBGs is full of people much like you that can't stand Eli. I can understand that - however many of these same people do not acknowledge how BIASED they are int heir assessment of Eli as a player. They claim that Giants fans are biased in favor of him (and by and large we are to a degree...) but they refuse to acknowledge that their anti-bias is probably stronger than most Giants fans pro bias. It has reached the point of absurdity over the past couple of years where many people's opinions of Eli are made through such jaded and negative glasses that those opinions can hardly count for much. Now, this has happened before with players on this sight - pro hype and anti hype - but the lack of people's ability to even acknowledge their bias is frustrating at times.

Gotcha. He is actually my dynasty league QB and higher on my draft sheet than most other players.I had him last year in a redraft as well. I hate him but probably over value him as a fantasy player myself lol.He's a much better option than he is made out to be IMO.

 

[Koya]

(1) If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses. The guy might not be the leader you want and he might not have made a professional decision you agreed with and he may not be as productive as many had hope for, but he is FAR from a jerk. This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things.

This kind of sounds like your comments and opinions about Tiki.

Oh, really?When did Eli undercut his current coach?When did Eli make his post professional career far more important than his current day team, at great cost to the team?When did Eli take cuts at coaches or players past or present without RESPONDING to the accusations of someone else?They aren't even close. And seriously, just like this board got blinded by Tatum Bell love or Fred Taylor being injury prone or countless other myths that the minions follow like lemmings, many hate Eli and that is the driving force behind everything they say or think about the kid when it is not at all justified.In terms of Tiki, once again, I used to love and respect the guy... but his words and deeds over the past years made me realize that my entire opinion about him was terribly misguided.But that's ok - you will have plenty of lemming supporters bashing Eli along with you, so keep it up. It's an easy place to be, even if utterly misguided and really off the mark, objectively speaking (and that isnt saying Eli is great, or even very good... but he is a lot more than this board gives him credit for being. My guess is it goes back to the general jealousy of people and their need to drop some of these young rich players down a notch so as to make "us" feel better about being the fan, and not the player)

(1) Nice of you to dismiss everyone else as being a lemming if they don't agree with your opinion here. Your characterization of where those on the other side of this issue from you are coming from is completely off base, at least for me. (2) I don't love Tiki, I don't think he is a HOFer, and I think he could and should have handled last season better. But he was a great player for the Giants the past 5 years and deserves respect for his accomplishments.(3) I don't hate Eli, but I see him for what he is - an average QB who is not living up to expectations and does not have a personality that helps him overcome that, either on the field or in the media. I wouldn't know about the locker room, but I Tiki's comments suggest that his personality doesn't help him there either.(4) As an objective observer who doesn't like or dislike the Giants or Tiki or Eli, I think Tiki's response is being way overblown in this thread. It wasn't a big deal, and I doubt anyone other than Eli would think it is... and the only reason Eli thinks so is that it hits uncomfortably close to the mark.Oh yeah, and I think you need counseling.

(1) I am only dismissing those who do not appear to understand the context behind this situation. As a diehard Giants fan, I saw the tumult Tiki not only caused, but seemed to revel in (after all, it helped catapult him into his studio gig... Tiki, all for tiki all the time). Ive been on these boards long enough to see how the pro/anti bandwagons go.(2) He was not only a great player for the past 5 years, but quite possibly the franchises BEST EVER player. It is a shame that all that is lost on those of us who really love the Giants because of how we saw his selfishness destroy the team, and in turn his chance at a lasting legacy as a Giants great. I NEVER want to see Tiki at a giants reunion, autograph signing, ever. I have disowned him as a fan because of his antics... which says a lot considering he had been one of my favorite players ever, for years.(3) Can't argue with what you state. You are right on target without the hyperbole and vitriolic hate that many bring to Eli for no reason (and seriously, his stance at the draft is reason to not like him, but move on... did he singlehandedly try to undo your franchises seasonw hile bringing down the coach and anyone else he could drag down for self promotion? Thats why I can't stand Tiki).(4) Context is everything. Tiki's comments alone wouldnt even concern me if it had not been in the context of how he treated his team, teamates, coach and fans last year. This is very little to do with the recent comments Tiki made and very much to do with the fact that this is what/who tiki is./.. someone looking to take pot shots while not accepting any accountbility on his own for doing grave harm to his teams chances by running his mouth for selfish reasons.PS - I really can't wait for strahan to move on either. Im done with this group of Giants. Shockey too. Please, I want a team that I not only root for, but can respect.

 

[Klecko HOF]

F them both.

Eli is whimp and brought a lot of criticsm upon himself the second he mentioned he would not play for San Diego. If you're going to make demands, then you'd better back it up, especially if you play in New York. Having a sibling who happens to be the best QB in the game, a Super Bowl winning MVP QB as well, and a father who was also a pretty good QB makes it that more critical.

Eli brought a lot of this on himself. He opted for the bright lights, big city dream, the one filled with endorsements, pressure, fame, etc as well as a media that smells blood the second it's dropped.

I also think Tki is a clown. He can never just #### and always has to make some comment that will incite things.

Tiki is the little ##### that commented on Michael Strahan's contract situation a few years back. He should've minded his own business and butt out. To involve yourself in another man's contract situation is bush league. Even if you agree or disagree, the wise thing would have been to simply #### and let the team and player fight it out. Youw ould thinkt hat Tiki would understand this, being a football player and understanding how fragile an NFL player's career is. Instead he called on Strahan and looked like a fool with his team mates.

Here we are again. Tiki comes out and makes some comments on Coughlin a few weeks back, and now has something to say about Eli. Please, #### and go disapear. Maybe he should just go on The View with the other #####es.

 

[Yenrub]

(1) If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses. The guy might not be the leader you want and he might not have made a professional decision you agreed with and he may not be as productive as many had hope for, but he is FAR from a jerk. This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things.

This kind of sounds like your comments and opinions about Tiki.

Oh, really?When did Eli undercut his current coach?

When did Eli make his post professional career far more important than his current day team, at great cost to the team?

When did Eli take cuts at coaches or players past or present without RESPONDING to the accusations of someone else?

They aren't even close. And seriously, just like this board got blinded by Tatum Bell love or Fred Taylor being injury prone or countless other myths that the minions follow like lemmings, many hate Eli and that is the driving force behind everything they say or think about the kid when it is not at all justified.

In terms of Tiki, once again, I used to love and respect the guy... but his words and deeds over the past years made me realize that my entire opinion about him was terribly misguided.

But that's ok - you will have plenty of lemming supporters bashing Eli along with you, so keep it up. It's an easy place to be, even if utterly misguided and really off the mark, objectively speaking (and that isnt saying Eli is great, or even very good... but he is a lot more than this board gives him credit for being. My guess is it goes back to the general jealousy of people and their need to drop some of these young rich players down a notch so as to make "us" feel better about being the fan, and not the player)

(1) Nice of you to dismiss everyone else as being a lemming if they don't agree with your opinion here. Your characterization of where those on the other side of this issue from you are coming from is completely off base, at least for me. (2) I don't love Tiki, I don't think he is a HOFer, and I think he could and should have handled last season better. But he was a great player for the Giants the past 5 years and deserves respect for his accomplishments.

(3) I don't hate Eli, but I see him for what he is - an average QB who is not living up to expectations and does not have a personality that helps him overcome that, either on the field or in the media. I wouldn't know about the locker room, but I Tiki's comments suggest that his personality doesn't help him there either.

(4) As an objective observer who doesn't like or dislike the Giants or Tiki or Eli, I think Tiki's response is being way overblown in this thread. It wasn't a big deal, and I doubt anyone other than Eli would think it is... and the only reason Eli thinks so is that it hits uncomfortably close to the mark.

Oh yeah, and I think you need counseling.

(1) I am only dismissing those who do not appear to understand the context behind this situation. As a diehard Giants fan, I saw the tumult Tiki not only caused, but seemed to revel in (after all, it helped catapult him into his studio gig... Tiki, all for tiki all the time). Ive been on these boards long enough to see how the pro/anti bandwagons go.(2) He was not only a great player for the past 5 years, but quite possibly the franchises BEST EVER player. It is a shame that all that is lost on those of us who really love the Giants because of how we saw his selfishness destroy the team, and in turn his chance at a lasting legacy as a Giants great. I NEVER want to see Tiki at a giants reunion, autograph signing, ever. I have disowned him as a fan because of his antics... which says a lot considering he had been one of my favorite players ever, for years.

(3) Can't argue with what you state. You are right on target without the hyperbole and vitriolic hate that many bring to Eli for no reason (and seriously, his stance at the draft is reason to not like him, but move on... did he singlehandedly try to undo your franchises seasonw hile bringing down the coach and anyone else he could drag down for self promotion? Thats why I can't stand Tiki).

(4) Context is everything. Tiki's comments alone wouldnt even concern me if it had not been in the context of how he treated his team, teamates, coach and fans last year. This is very little to do with the recent comments Tiki made and very much to do with the fact that this is what/who tiki is./.. someone looking to take pot shots while not accepting any accountbility on his own for doing grave harm to his teams chances by running his mouth for selfish reasons.

PS - I really can't wait for strahan to move on either. Im done with this group of Giants. Shockey too. Please, I want a team that I not only root for, but can respect.

Slow down, you are getting carried away.

 

[Construction Man Jim]

Tiki was asked directly by Costas and Collinsworth how Eli was in the locker room, Tiki explained it, and Eli wasn't happy.

I don't think you understand how television works. You make it sound like Tiki got ambushed at a press conference.What you saw Sunday night was the product of numerous production meetings. It was rehearsed. It was part of a deliberately crafted plan to create controversy and bring attention to Tiki and the show.

 

[Koya]

(1) If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses. The guy might not be the leader you want and he might not have made a professional decision you agreed with and he may not be as productive as many had hope for, but he is FAR from a jerk. This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things.

This kind of sounds like your comments and opinions about Tiki.

Oh, really?When did Eli undercut his current coach?

When did Eli make his post professional career far more important than his current day team, at great cost to the team?

When did Eli take cuts at coaches or players past or present without RESPONDING to the accusations of someone else?

They aren't even close. And seriously, just like this board got blinded by Tatum Bell love or Fred Taylor being injury prone or countless other myths that the minions follow like lemmings, many hate Eli and that is the driving force behind everything they say or think about the kid when it is not at all justified.

In terms of Tiki, once again, I used to love and respect the guy... but his words and deeds over the past years made me realize that my entire opinion about him was terribly misguided.

But that's ok - you will have plenty of lemming supporters bashing Eli along with you, so keep it up. It's an easy place to be, even if utterly misguided and really off the mark, objectively speaking (and that isnt saying Eli is great, or even very good... but he is a lot more than this board gives him credit for being. My guess is it goes back to the general jealousy of people and their need to drop some of these young rich players down a notch so as to make "us" feel better about being the fan, and not the player)

(1) Nice of you to dismiss everyone else as being a lemming if they don't agree with your opinion here. Your characterization of where those on the other side of this issue from you are coming from is completely off base, at least for me. (2) I don't love Tiki, I don't think he is a HOFer, and I think he could and should have handled last season better. But he was a great player for the Giants the past 5 years and deserves respect for his accomplishments.

(3) I don't hate Eli, but I see him for what he is - an average QB who is not living up to expectations and does not have a personality that helps him overcome that, either on the field or in the media. I wouldn't know about the locker room, but I Tiki's comments suggest that his personality doesn't help him there either.

(4) As an objective observer who doesn't like or dislike the Giants or Tiki or Eli, I think Tiki's response is being way overblown in this thread. It wasn't a big deal, and I doubt anyone other than Eli would think it is... and the only reason Eli thinks so is that it hits uncomfortably close to the mark.

Oh yeah, and I think you need counseling.

(1) I am only dismissing those who do not appear to understand the context behind this situation. As a diehard Giants fan, I saw the tumult Tiki not only caused, but seemed to revel in (after all, it helped catapult him into his studio gig... Tiki, all for tiki all the time). Ive been on these boards long enough to see how the pro/anti bandwagons go.(2) He was not only a great player for the past 5 years, but quite possibly the franchises BEST EVER player. It is a shame that all that is lost on those of us who really love the Giants because of how we saw his selfishness destroy the team, and in turn his chance at a lasting legacy as a Giants great. I NEVER want to see Tiki at a giants reunion, autograph signing, ever. I have disowned him as a fan because of his antics... which says a lot considering he had been one of my favorite players ever, for years.

(3) Can't argue with what you state. You are right on target without the hyperbole and vitriolic hate that many bring to Eli for no reason (and seriously, his stance at the draft is reason to not like him, but move on... did he singlehandedly try to undo your franchises seasonw hile bringing down the coach and anyone else he could drag down for self promotion? Thats why I can't stand Tiki).

(4) Context is everything. Tiki's comments alone wouldnt even concern me if it had not been in the context of how he treated his team, teamates, coach and fans last year. This is very little to do with the recent comments Tiki made and very much to do with the fact that this is what/who tiki is./.. someone looking to take pot shots while not accepting any accountbility on his own for doing grave harm to his teams chances by running his mouth for selfish reasons.

PS - I really can't wait for strahan to move on either. Im done with this group of Giants. Shockey too. Please, I want a team that I not only root for, but can respect.

Slow down, you are getting carried away.

I meant offensive. He certainly can't hold LT's jock.But, from a numbers/production standpoint only, you dont have many other options. Simms? I would put him above Tiki on the field - Simms is terribly underated imo. Other than that, Frank Gifford is really your best bet. Couple others in the conversation perhaps, but the Giants have never been known for outstanding offensive talent. I think it is pretty reasonable to say Tiki was the best RB the Giants ever had (Rodney Hampton never had close to his impact, and again, we are going back to Gifford et. al otherwise)

 

[Jason Wood]

This is a pretty clear case of "he may be a jerk, but he's my jerk."This is par for the course though...not many Plax bashers around, or Shockey bashers even though I think their play and demeanor CLEARLY show much more selfishness and lack of effort than Tiki ever did. Also ironic how many Giants fans I heard two weeks ago on talk radio saying how the Giants were better off without Strahan, but now that he seems all but assured of returning, the calls are almost universally praising him and saying how vital he is to this year's team. We shouldn't pick on the Giants fans for this though, it's a common trait among most sports fans (not just football). I know I loved Frank Thomas (my favorite baseball player of all time) but could care less about his moaning a few years ago when Ken Williams and he were in a war of words. That's all part of being a fan. Love the guys who wear the jersey, and screw anyone that doesn't.

(1) If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses. The guy might not be the leader you want and he might not have made a professional decision you agreed with and he may not be as productive as many had hope for, but he is FAR from a jerk. This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things.(2) Plax and Shockey get TONS of criticism. The difference is they don't walk around acting like they are great people and looking out for the good of others and the team while really they are undercutting their coach and only looking out for their own career benefit OUTSIDE of the team. I can't stand Shockey personally. One of the most overated players ever and I wish he would shut the f up as well. Plax just frustrates you with his laziness and inconsistency.(3) It is not that we are "better off without strahan" - but even with him returning, a BIG part of me wants him done, gone. He reminds me in some ways of Tiki, but not nearly to the damaging and utterly ego centric dimension that Tiki has done. Regardless, I want DONE with this era of selfish Giant football. That good riddance (or hope thereof) goes for, in order: Tiki, Shockey, Strahan and to a lesser degree Plaxico (who never pretended to be a team leader while simultaneously undercutting the team).So, I guess there goes your very surface assessment of Giants fans... but I think it is you and many who think along your lines that are actually more biased against Eli than Giants fans are biased toward him (and plenty of Giants fans are not at all Eli fans. I happen to be, but I understand he is far from the second coming and has been a disappointment if for no other reason than not living up to the two other QBs taken high in that draft)

Hey Koya,I think you misunderstood my "he's our jerk comment"...I was actually referring to Tiki, not Eli. Point being, if Tiki didn't hang them up, his comments about Coughlin and/or Manning would be accepted (criticized yet, but accepted) whereas now we're hearing a lot of visceral "HOW DARE HE" and "WHO NEEDS HIM" and "HE BETRAYED US". That's all.I don't think for one second Manning is a jerk. If anything, I think he could use a little more attitude/jerkiness, but if I implied otherwise, sorry for the confusion. I think Eli was silly for giving into Tiki's comments, and I think he showed weakness by reacting out of character. I definitely don't buy into this notion that his lashing back was somehow good for Eli and an important step in his maturation. And I for dang sure think what Manning did to the Chargers and how he handled it was FAR more egregious than what Tiki did last season.

 

[Koya]

This is a pretty clear case of "he may be a jerk, but he's my jerk."This is par for the course though...not many Plax bashers around, or Shockey bashers even though I think their play and demeanor CLEARLY show much more selfishness and lack of effort than Tiki ever did. Also ironic how many Giants fans I heard two weeks ago on talk radio saying how the Giants were better off without Strahan, but now that he seems all but assured of returning, the calls are almost universally praising him and saying how vital he is to this year's team. We shouldn't pick on the Giants fans for this though, it's a common trait among most sports fans (not just football). I know I loved Frank Thomas (my favorite baseball player of all time) but could care less about his moaning a few years ago when Ken Williams and he were in a war of words. That's all part of being a fan. Love the guys who wear the jersey, and screw anyone that doesn't.

(1) If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses. The guy might not be the leader you want and he might not have made a professional decision you agreed with and he may not be as productive as many had hope for, but he is FAR from a jerk. This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things.(2) Plax and Shockey get TONS of criticism. The difference is they don't walk around acting like they are great people and looking out for the good of others and the team while really they are undercutting their coach and only looking out for their own career benefit OUTSIDE of the team. I can't stand Shockey personally. One of the most overated players ever and I wish he would shut the f up as well. Plax just frustrates you with his laziness and inconsistency.(3) It is not that we are "better off without strahan" - but even with him returning, a BIG part of me wants him done, gone. He reminds me in some ways of Tiki, but not nearly to the damaging and utterly ego centric dimension that Tiki has done. Regardless, I want DONE with this era of selfish Giant football. That good riddance (or hope thereof) goes for, in order: Tiki, Shockey, Strahan and to a lesser degree Plaxico (who never pretended to be a team leader while simultaneously undercutting the team).So, I guess there goes your very surface assessment of Giants fans... but I think it is you and many who think along your lines that are actually more biased against Eli than Giants fans are biased toward him (and plenty of Giants fans are not at all Eli fans. I happen to be, but I understand he is far from the second coming and has been a disappointment if for no other reason than not living up to the two other QBs taken high in that draft)

Hey Koya,I think you misunderstood my "he's our jerk comment"...I was actually referring to Tiki, not Eli. Point being, if Tiki didn't hang them up, his comments about Coughlin and/or Manning would be accepted (criticized yet, but accepted) whereas now we're hearing a lot of visceral "HOW DARE HE" and "WHO NEEDS HIM" and "HE BETRAYED US". That's all.I don't think for one second Manning is a jerk. If anything, I think he could use a little more attitude/jerkiness, but if I implied otherwise, sorry for the confusion. I think Eli was silly for giving into Tiki's comments, and I think he showed weakness by reacting out of character. I definitely don't buy into this notion that his lashing back was somehow good for Eli and an important step in his maturation. And I for dang sure think what Manning did to the Chargers and how he handled it was FAR more egregious than what Tiki did last season.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Eli may be a lot of things (or rather, may NOT be a lot of things, to his detriment)... and it is interesting about you saying that Eli could use more "attitude/jerkness" - that is the EXACT reason I applauded Eli's speaking out on this matter. Usually, I am very much of the mind that players should take the highroad, but Eli can't afford to be a doormat (anymore). I have to seriously disagree that what Eli did was worse than what Tiki did. Eli was making a business decision... he had no affiliation, no need for loyalty. I can understand that people were put off, but Eli did NOT essentially doublecross his OWN TEAMATES for the sake of personal gain. Eli may have played hardball, but he did so before there was any loyalty to be had... to a franchise, coach, team, fans. Tiki was not making any professional decision other than to throw his treamates and coach under the bus for personal glory by way of his big mouth and bigger egne last very important thing - while some might have turned on tiki because he is no longer on the team, I stand by my evolution from tiki lover to tiki basher over the past few years, and really culminating last year while he still WAS on the team. So my "sour grapes" have nothing to do with him retiring but everything to do with how he acted while still here... and I was very critical of ME-ki last year.

 

[kensat30]

F Tiki, his entire Giants tenure was a constant "springboard" to whatever medicrity awaits. Eli has a lot of growing to do, but Tiki never made things easy for him, and my only regret is that Shockey is still on the team. They should have cleanaed the cubboard of all these media whores, 2/3 are gone with Tiki and Strahan out. If Eli is ever going to be anything, its got to be his team, and with these me-first mouths around(and throw Plax in there too I suppose), that will never be the case. I like him showing some sack here.

A true leader would take the team over. They would not have to wait until this player leaves and that player leaves. Eli is not now nor will he ever be a leader.

Eli is the perfect fit for Coughlin. It's like a father/son relationship.

 

[Construction Man Jim]

And I for dang sure think what Manning did to the Chargers and how he handled it was FAR more egregious than what Tiki did last season.

What he "did to the Chargers"? Give me a break. That's the business. The players have every right to use every bit of leverage at their disposal. And you're failing to make a couple critical distinctions: Eli wasn't already part of a team dynamic at that point and the entire episode was contained to the off-season, pre-draft. Tiki, on the other hand, was very much a central part of a team. He created the entire situation mid-season and it was very disruptive to the rest of his teammates.

 

[DanFouts]

And I for dang sure think what Manning did to the Chargers and how he handled it was FAR more egregious than what Tiki did last season.

What he "did to the Chargers"? Give me a break. That's the business. The players have every right to use every bit of leverage at their disposal. And you're failing to make a couple critical distinctions: Eli wasn't already part of a team dynamic at that point and the entire episode was contained to the off-season, pre-draft. Tiki, on the other hand, was very much a central part of a team. He created the entire situation mid-season and it was very disruptive to the rest of his teammates.

Sure, he has a right to make his business decision. In the process, he demonstrated that he and his family have little respect for the system and also spoke poorly of the Chargers organization. They wanted the spotlight of the big city and marketing that comes with it. Fine. But then the fans have every right to feel that he is a spoiled crybaby. He made his bed and he can lie in it. As a Chargers fan, River's leadership and class >>>>>>Eli. But we all get a little joy seeing Eli cry about everything....there are some things Daddy can't fix....

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Tiki and Strahan were supposed to be the leaders of that team last year. They were the vets. They were the Pro Bowlers. Both have consistently let off field issues enter the lockerroom during the season. Strahan with his bitter divorce and whining about money. Barber publicly campaigning for a TV job. Not to mention Barber breaking one of the biggest lockerroom codes that exists when he publicly got in the middle of Strahan's contract situation a couple years ago. Neither of these two clowns would know how to lead if it smacked them upside the head. Both constantly point fingers at the coaches and their teammates instead of looking in the mirror. That's not leadership.

Tiki is blaming his team's shortcomings and his own personal shortcomings on Eli. It's pathetic that he was depending on a 4th year player to be his leader when he and Strahan should have been leading all along. Tiki tore that lockerroom apart two years ago though.

Manning has the respect of a lot of his teammates even though he is quiet. I doubt Tiki can say the same thing.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Tom Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride are two of the worst coaches in the NFL. How can you blame Tiki for coming out against them. Coughlin is out of touch with reality. Gilbride is just flat out bad. I dont know how Gilbride is still in the league.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

And I for dang sure think what Manning did to the Chargers and how he handled it was FAR more egregious than what Tiki did last season.

What he "did to the Chargers"? Give me a break. That's the business. The players have every right to use every bit of leverage at their disposal. And you're failing to make a couple critical distinctions: Eli wasn't already part of a team dynamic at that point and the entire episode was contained to the off-season, pre-draft. Tiki, on the other hand, was very much a central part of a team. He created the entire situation mid-season and it was very disruptive to the rest of his teammates.

Sure, he has a right to make his business decision. In the process, he demonstrated that he and his family have little respect for the system and also spoke poorly of the Chargers organization. They wanted the spotlight of the big city and marketing that comes with it. Fine. But then the fans have every right to feel that he is a spoiled crybaby. He made his bed and he can lie in it. As a Chargers fan, River's leadership and class >>>>>>Eli. But we all get a little joy seeing Eli cry about everything....there are some things Daddy can't fix....

The voice of reason.

 

[Tau837]

And I for dang sure think what Manning did to the Chargers and how he handled it was FAR more egregious than what Tiki did last season.

I'm sure every franchise around would love for someone to do to it what Eli "did to the Chargers". What he did to them was speed their ascension to becoming one of the few best teams in the NFL. The fact that he came across as a jerk in doing it, and has essentially flopped (relative to expectations) since then is merely icing on the cake for Chargers fans.

 

[Tau837]

And I for dang sure think what Manning did to the Chargers and how he handled it was FAR more egregious than what Tiki did last season.

What he "did to the Chargers"? Give me a break. That's the business. The players have every right to use every bit of leverage at their disposal. And you're failing to make a couple critical distinctions: Eli wasn't already part of a team dynamic at that point and the entire episode was contained to the off-season, pre-draft. Tiki, on the other hand, was very much a central part of a team. He created the entire situation mid-season and it was very disruptive to the rest of his teammates.

Sure, he has a right to make his business decision. In the process, he demonstrated that he and his family have little respect for the system and also spoke poorly of the Chargers organization. They wanted the spotlight of the big city and marketing that comes with it. Fine. But then the fans have every right to feel that he is a spoiled crybaby. He made his bed and he can lie in it. As a Chargers fan, River's leadership and class >>>>>>Eli. But we all get a little joy seeing Eli cry about everything....there are some things Daddy can't fix....

 

[Construction Man Jim]

And I for dang sure think what Manning did to the Chargers and how he handled it was FAR more egregious than what Tiki did last season.

What he "did to the Chargers"? Give me a break. That's the business. The players have every right to use every bit of leverage at their disposal. And you're failing to make a couple critical distinctions: Eli wasn't already part of a team dynamic at that point and the entire episode was contained to the off-season, pre-draft. Tiki, on the other hand, was very much a central part of a team. He created the entire situation mid-season and it was very disruptive to the rest of his teammates.

Sure, he has a right to make his business decision. In the process, he demonstrated that he and his family have little respect for the system and also spoke poorly of the Chargers organization. They wanted the spotlight of the big city and marketing that comes with it. Fine. But then the fans have every right to feel that he is a spoiled crybaby. He made his bed and he can lie in it. As a Chargers fan, River's leadership and class >>>>>>Eli. But we all get a little joy seeing Eli cry about everything....there are some things Daddy can't fix....

The voice of reason.

Charger's fans feelings toward Eli the "spoiled crybaby" have nothing to do with reason. Nor are they germane to this conversation.

 

[brednbuddah]

Eli = class

Have to disagree. I saw the interview, and he was doing really well there for awhile. He was saying all the "classy" things about not losing sleep over it, and joking that Tiki had transitioned well into his media role, and then he felt a need to fire back. The class move would have been to let it roll off, and let his play do the talking.

I didn´t see/hear the interview, but I´m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Manning. I feel he deserved to fire back at all those guys, Tiki especially. Tiki put himself above the team last year to jockey into his ¨broadcasting" career and took shots at not only Eli, but other teammates and his coach. All along Eli kept his mouth shut. I think it´s over due.I´m not a Giants fan, actually I dislike them a lot and will enjoy seeing them flounder this year, but Eli is a man and Tiki is a punk.btw, I dig your quotes - a lot!

 

[SproutDaddy]

Eli whined and cried to get traded to New York on Draft Day.He deserves every ounch of crap he takes IMHO. I'll never forget the pre draft day interview ESPN did with him and how smug of a jerk he came off as. I hope he fails.

Who would you rather have LT2 and Gates or Plax and Shockey? I think all these Giants fans are just mad because of how sorry their offense is going to be with the heart of it not on the field. Now they have a crybaby as a leader with nothing but selfish headcases as his supporting cast.

 

[hoopvillian]

As a San Diego native and longtime Chargers fan let me just say... Haha.

And thanks Tiki for helping me win my league last year.