This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
:(Very well played.Just to make sure I understand the "Lott Test"...would Ronnie have refused to play for an NFL franchise despite their willingness to make him the 1st overall pick and pay him tens of millions of dollars guaranteed?GordonGekko said:Is that something Ronnie would have done?
Interesting. Here are all of the #1 overall draft picks, dating back to Aikman. Given the ups and downs in Manning's career so far, I'd say he looks to be better than 10 of them (bolded), and worse than five of them (italicized), with Mario Williams and Michael Vick being pushes.I wouldn't call that "a disappointment by any measure".
Tiki showed heart in exactly one game in his life, that final game against the Birds in the regular season in 2004. He put the Giants on his back and put them in the playoffs, and was one of the great one game, one man efforts in New York football history.
So he's bound to improve. Eli = championship!
So out of a set of 20 (presumably very good) QB's, Manning is toward the bottom. I'm not sure what that proves exactly.I mean, what if I were to say that out of the 20 WR's with the most yards in their first 3 years, a receiver had the third lowest YPR and the fifth lowest rec/target ratio. Would you conclude that he's a lousy WR?!
The worst post I've read in 5 years of being on this board.
I think he's showing Eli is on pace to be one of the top 20 qb's to play the game. This is coming from an Eagles fan so you know his stats aren't biased. Eli is looking to be one of the lousier top 20 qb's ever but it's top 20 nonetheless.Giants are looking like they got a steal with that Rivers trade.
Eli should be happy Tiki was tiki last year. This cat got drafted high on name alone. I don't think he will be anything more then a average QB at best. Granted the situation in NY isn't the greatest but its not like Tiki is the lone person to question Eli.
:idiotkicker:A Manning ripping a teammate / former teamate? I don't believe it.
You have got to be kidding me.
Did you actually listen to what Tiki said? I did, and he didn't say it in an insulting way at all. People are reacting like Barber threw Manning under the bus, when in fact he said something that by all empirical evidence appears to be 100% true. Manning has not been a vocal leader for the Giants, and much of that related to his feeling out of place in that role with veterans like Barber and Strahan on the team.He didn't do it in the press. If he felt compelled to do so in private, mazel tov, but in either case, there's no real reason to make it public after the fact, whether he confronted him or not. And its not like the world is waiting to hear what Tiki has to say anyway.How do you know he didn't?Tiki reminds me of Jerome Bettis...new to commenting on football while not playing and calling someone out. Bettis did it on his coach and Tiki on his old QB. I attribute it to their lack of experience and their thinking that they are working for the National Enquirer.
BTW - If Tiki wasn't man enough to say anything about Eli before when he was on the team, then he's a punk.
Exactly. He didn't even want to say anything. He was asked about leadership and Tiki talked about him addressing the team. He was new to it and was awkward because he was new to it.
Carter,Players don't have control over how they're used. I don't think any NFL analyst worth his salt would look back at Tiki's career and make the case he wasn't criminally underused by Jim Fassel who pigeon holed him as a 3rd down back. Once Tiki was given the chance, he played at a near HOF level; and that's coming from a guy that LOATHES him because of how he tore my team up almost every time we played against him. As I said earlier, Manning has been a productive TD producer for such a young QB, but his underlying passing metrics haven't been very promising. It's way too early to suggest Manning can't/won't be a very good pro, but I think the jury is still out and he MUST show major improvement this year to right his trajectory. Unfortunately for him, his supporting situation is tenuous at best, IMHO.
Tiki think he knows it all but, he knows nothing about TEAM coming first......He thought he was above it all and it was alright for HIM to call out players and coaches.PUNK
Among other things he said "I think he's been a very good quarterback."..."He has a great demeanor."...and "I think [my leaving has been] a good thing for Eli, to tell you the truth."What a punk
? "starting?" Actually his comments the other day weren't so bad. But his BS last year was.
that's what I'm talkin 'bout, word up
But while Manning has a point, IMO he has little to gain from his comments and should've just told the friggin reporters to take a flying leap. God I hate sports reporters.
It is unbelievable to me that Giant fans are ripping Tiki for some pretty benign statements. Eli is not a vocal leader, never has been. Getting upset by hearing that is like getting upset for stating the moon reflects light.... 
(1) If you think Eli is a "jerk" than you are apparantly looking through the very typical FFA-hatred colored lenses. The guy might not be the leader you want and he might not have made a professional decision you agreed with and he may not be as productive as many had hope for, but he is FAR from a jerk. This is what cant stand about this board too often - the love and the hate for certain players based on utterly irrational things.(2) Plax and Shockey get TONS of criticism. The difference is they don't walk around acting like they are great people and looking out for the good of others and the team while really they are undercutting their coach and only looking out for their own career benefit OUTSIDE of the team. I can't stand Shockey personally. One of the most overated players ever and I wish he would shut the f up as well. Plax just frustrates you with his laziness and inconsistency.(3) It is not that we are "better off without strahan" - but even with him returning, a BIG part of me wants him done, gone. He reminds me in some ways of Tiki, but not nearly to the damaging and utterly ego centric dimension that Tiki has done. Regardless, I want DONE with this era of selfish Giant football. That good riddance (or hope thereof) goes for, in order: Tiki, Shockey, Strahan and to a lesser degree Plaxico (who never pretended to be a team leader while simultaneously undercutting the team).So, I guess there goes your very surface assessment of Giants fans... but I think it is you and many who think along your lines that are actually more biased against Eli than Giants fans are biased toward him (and plenty of Giants fans are not at all Eli fans. I happen to be, but I understand he is far from the second coming and has been a disappointment if for no other reason than not living up to the two other QBs taken high in that draft)
Man, people seem to lack the ability to bring context into the equation.If you are equating the Bus with Tiki, you know nothing about the context of each situation, the relationship with the team and coach and the history behind it. Please. And for what it is worth, you can go back and check my posts over thepast two years... from Tiki should be in the HoF going at this pace, to disappointment, to disillusionment to outright disgust.
This kind of sounds like your comments and opinions about Tiki.
That isnt showing fire. That is whining. Where during Tiki's 1600+ yard season did Eli notice Tiki wasnt into the game exactly??
This kind of sounds like your comments and opinions about Tiki.
In Jason's statement, substitute "average (at best) QB" for "jerk" and it is right on the mark.
Please elaborate a bit more on the bolded area for me.Man, people seem to lack the ability to bring context into the equation.
If you are equating the Bus with Tiki, you know nothing about the context of each situation, the relationship with the team and coach and the history behind it. Please.
And for what it is worth, you can go back and check my posts over thepast two years... from Tiki should be in the HoF going at this pace, to disappointment, to disillusionment to outright disgust.
Tiki had alot left in the tank and left for selfish reasons. Bus' tank was running on empty.My feeling as a giants fan is tiki is by far the superior football player, but in later years he has become so full of his ability everytime he speaks that it sends me in a murderous rage.Please elaborate a bit more on the bolded area for me.Man, people seem to lack the ability to bring context into the equation.
If you are equating the Bus with Tiki, you know nothing about the context of each situation, the relationship with the team and coach and the history behind it. Please.
And for what it is worth, you can go back and check my posts over thepast two years... from Tiki should be in the HoF going at this pace, to disappointment, to disillusionment to outright disgust.
Tiki's a complete d.ouchebag, too. This whole thing is like watching The Donald and Rosie go at each other. Who the eff cares?
It's selfish to not want to take a beating every week for 16 or more weeks? Was Robert Smith selfish too? Didnt some NFL player just have his leg amputated because of all the knee surgeries he had to undergo?Tiki had alot left in the tank and left for selfish reasons. Bus' tank was running on empty.My feeling as a giants fan is tiki is by far the superior football player, but in later years he has become so full of his ability everytime he speaks that it sends me in a murderous rage.Please elaborate a bit more on the bolded area for me.Man, people seem to lack the ability to bring context into the equation.
If you are equating the Bus with Tiki, you know nothing about the context of each situation, the relationship with the team and coach and the history behind it. Please.
And for what it is worth, you can go back and check my posts over thepast two years... from Tiki should be in the HoF going at this pace, to disappointment, to disillusionment to outright disgust.
Selfish reasons? Believe it or not, not every NFL RB wants to retire at such a late age, that he is limping around like an old man by the age of 40.
Who cares. I was just saying that was the difference between Bettis and Tiki. Tiki could have been a HOF great. I think when you have a shot at the greatness Barber had, he should have went at it, for as long as he had the talent.
Tiki was asked directly by Costas and Collinsworth how Eli was in the locker room, Tiki explained it, and Eli wasn't happy. I think it was wrong of Tiki to put the team through everything in the middle of last season, and I certainly can understand why Giants fans would be pissed at him. But personally as an Eagles fan, I'm excited at what I saw McNabb do on the field this past weekend. If Giants fans want to be excited about their quarterback calling out a retired player through the media instead of what's happening on the field, I don't blame you.
So he should have kept playing so he could have solidified his supposed Hall of Fame status? Wouldn't that be selfish? And if so, how is his retirement a selfish act, then?I should say, for the record, that I think Barber is just as much of a HoFer as Bettis is. I think both are borderline cases that could go either way.Who cares. I was just saying that was the difference between Bettis and Tiki. Tiki could have been a HOF great. I think when you have a shot at the greatness Barber had, he should have went at it, for as long as he had the talent.
Selfish reasons? Believe it or not, not every NFL RB wants to retire at such a late age, that he is limping around like an old man by the age of 40.
I just think he shouldn't be as big-headed as he is with comments like this, and the ones he made criticizing coughlin last year when he left his teammates behind in the prime of his career.So he should have kept playing so he could have solidified his supposed Hall of Fame status? Wouldn't that be selfish? And if so, how is his retirement a selfish act, then?I should say, for the record, that I think Barber is just as much of a HoFer as Bettis is. I think both are borderline cases that could go either way.Who cares. I was just saying that was the difference between Bettis and Tiki. Tiki could have been a HOF great. I think when you have a shot at the greatness Barber had, he should have went at it, for as long as he had the talent.
HE DID NOT LEAVE HIS TEAMMATES BEHIND. Leaving his teammates behind would have been what Strahan is doing right now, or retiring mid-season. Barber played out the whole season, and was the Giants best player to boot!I just think he shouldn't be as big-headed as he is with comments like this, and the ones he made criticizing coughlin last year when he left his teammates behind in the prime of his career.So he should have kept playing so he could have solidified his supposed Hall of Fame status? Wouldn't that be selfish? And if so, how is his retirement a selfish act, then?I should say, for the record, that I think Barber is just as much of a HoFer as Bettis is. I think both are borderline cases that could go either way.Who cares. I was just saying that was the difference between Bettis and Tiki. Tiki could have been a HOF great. I think when you have a shot at the greatness Barber had, he should have went at it, for as long as he had the talent.Selfish reasons? Believe it or not, not every NFL RB wants to retire at such a late age, that he is limping around like an old man by the age of 40.
HE DID NOT LEAVE HIS TEAMMATES BEHIND. Leaving his teammates behind would have been what Strahan is doing right now, or retiring mid-season. Barber played out the whole season, and was the Giants best player to boot!I just think he shouldn't be as big-headed as he is with comments like this, and the ones he made criticizing coughlin last year when he left his teammates behind in the prime of his career.So he should have kept playing so he could have solidified his supposed Hall of Fame status? Wouldn't that be selfish? And if so, how is his retirement a selfish act, then?I should say, for the record, that I think Barber is just as much of a HoFer as Bettis is. I think both are borderline cases that could go either way.Who cares. I was just saying that was the difference between Bettis and Tiki. Tiki could have been a HOF great. I think when you have a shot at the greatness Barber had, he should have went at it, for as long as he had the talent.
His current comments notwithstanding, to say he was selfish for retiring when he did is just plain wrong.
