Eli/Philip/Ben (1 Viewer)

[TwinTurbo]

I liked Big Ben before the draft and would still pick him over Rivers and Eli today even though all are elite QBs. Even when he has a bad game, he still makes one or two positive plays that make a significant difference in the outcome which is usually a win. That winning TD he threw to Holmes to win Superbowl XLIII was ridiculous. Yeah it was just one pass and he may not be as prolific a passer as Rivers, but I think there are clutch plays and throws he can make on the run that Rivers and Eli could never make. He seems like a perfect fit for the Steelers and I don't think they would be better off with Rivers or Eli.

 

[Fensalk]

The correct pick is definitely Rivers at this point.

 

[Tau837]

The answer is G. Rivers is averaging 19.689 ppg since the start of the 2006 season. Roethlisberger is averaging 19.444 ppg since the start of the 2006 season (0.245 ppg behind Rivers)

One factor ignored here is that Rivers has played 7 more games in those 5 seasons. Not a huge deal, perhaps, but for two elite QBs who are arguably close otherwise, Rivers playing almost half a season more games provided a significant amount more value to his team (NFL team and fantasy teams).Both guys are tough and durable, but Rivers has proven to be more durable so far. And the fact that Roethlisberger missed 4 of those games due to off field actions which reflect questionable character just emphasizes the fact that Rivers has been better.

 

[Tau837]

2009 post on this:

I think it's safe to say the Chargers would do the same thing they did. They got Rivers, Merriman, and Kaeding by drafting and trading Eli, and Rivers appears to be set to be a franchise NFL QB for many years to come. The Chargers haven't won any Super Bowls, and there is no reason to believe they would have with Eli or Roethlisberger (and without Merriman and Kaeding).I think it's safe to say the Steelers would again draft Roethlisberger. They have won two Super Bowls with him and he appears to be set to be a franchise NFL QB for many years to come. It is arguable that either Rivers or Eli could have had similar success in his place, but that is speculation, and I'm sure the Steelers view Ben as the best of the three.I think it's very likely the Giants would do the same thing they did, given they won a Super Bowl and are a strong contender for another in the near term with Eli and he appears to be set to be a franchise QB for many years to come. However, I think Eli has more to prove as a passer than the other two, and it is worth considering whether they would have done as well or better, and be better set for the future, had they not traded for Eli. They could have drafted and kept either Rivers or Roethlisberger, and had the extra picks they traded away in that deal. That said, like the Steelers, if they could go back knowing what they know now, they would probably stick with Eli, as I assume they like him more than the others... they did on draft day, and I think they are happy with their results since then.Oakland took Robert Gallery at #2; Washington took Sean Taylor at #5; Cleveland took Kellen Winslow Jr. at #6; Detroit took Roy Williams at #7; Atlanta took Deangelo Hall at #8; Jacksonville took Reggie Williams at #9; and Houston took Dunta Robinson at #10. I'm pretty sure every one of those teams would take one of these three QBs if they could go back knowing what they know now.Some people have interpreted this question as how they compare from here forward, ignoring what has happened, but I think that ignores the "knowing what you know now" part of the question. Looking at their past performance, I think Roethlisberger deserves a lot of credit for starting from day one and performing well, albeit in about as favorable a situation as a QB can get (great defense, running game, coaching, receiving targets, not having to attempt more than 295 passes in either of his first two seasons).Actually, all three QBs have been in favorable situations since they became full time starters. I'd say Ben's has been most favorable, followed by Eli, followed by Rivers. The coaching, defenses, and running games have been more consistently good in Pittsburgh and New York, and those teams have had very good veteran WRs almost the entire time (Ward and Burress). Rivers has had a good TE and receiving RB all along but didn't have any particularly good WRs until just last year when Jackson emerged.Of course, I like Rivers the best, so if I were drafting, I'd take him over the other two. I think he showed last year what he is capable of, and I doubt either of the other two will ever have a season like that. Eli really wasn't a particularly good QB in his first 4 seasons, but he may finally have turned the corner... I'd like to see another good season to make sure. So I'd take Roethlisberger second. That said, it's close. I think Roethlisberger is a bit overrated as a QB due to the Steelers' success on his watch. I mean, he deserves a lot of credit for it, I'm just not convinced that he is a great passer. I don't put as much stock in his first two seasons, since he didn't have to attempt many passes for the Steelers to be successful... and he was an average passer in two of the past three seasons.So I voted Rivers - Ben - Eli.

Rivers and Roethlisberger have improved their standing (on the field for Ben) since then, so I am now more convinced that I was at the time of this post that the correct order is Rivers-Ben-Eli.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Rivers had the #1 defense in the league, a cakewalk of a division and didn't make the playoffs this year. Hard to put him ahead of Ben at this point.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Do Steeler fans really think anyone is looking at their posts seriously in a Rothisbuger thread? Some of you guys have good stuff, but the majority are just transparent as heck homers..

If theirs a thread with Ben in it, better believe there's several Steeler fan's in their ready to defend their god...

 

[The Jerk]

The answer is G. Rivers is averaging 19.689 ppg since the start of the 2006 season. Roethlisberger is averaging 19.444 ppg since the start of the 2006 season (0.245 ppg behind Rivers)

One factor ignored here is that Rivers has played 7 more games in those 5 seasons. Not a huge deal, perhaps, but for two elite QBs who are arguably close otherwise, Rivers playing almost half a season more games provided a significant amount more value to his team (NFL team and fantasy teams).Both guys are tough and durable, but Rivers has proven to be more durable so far. And the fact that Roethlisberger missed 4 of those games due to off field actions which reflect questionable character just emphasizes the fact that Rivers has been better.

I'm with you there, but keep in mind that my response was addressed to the statement that Ben was a distant third and a "mile" or "miles" behind Rivers. I'm pretty sure that statement has been shown to be in error. Even giving Ben 0's for his missed games, he still has more fantasy points than Eli over the past five seasons, and my point wasn't to suggest Ben has been more prolific than Rivers but that on a per game basis he has been pretty close. I certainly think that is the case. And, depending on where Ben was drafted compared to where Rivers was drafted, perhaps Ben has had similar value in terms of production vs. cost. I'm not sure about ADP, but I'd guess Rivers has been drafted earlier than Ben most seasons.I'd like to see how many people honestly knew that the difference between Rivers and Roethlisberger over the past five years on a per game basis was a quarter of a point. You're right that there is a benefit to having Rivers play in 7 more games. However, one of the games Ben misses was a Week 17 resting for the playoffs week (2007) which was essentially irrelevant to the fantasy world and 4 of the other 6 games were packaged in the suspension this season. Fantasy players obviously knew he was unavailable for those games when he was being drafted. So the actual fantasy cost of Ben's missed games has been pretty minimal. After all, owners get to play someone else when their QB is out.Of course, if I had to pick between the two, I'd select Rivers as well. He has outperformed Ben in terms of FF. Even if it's a small margin, it's still there. And I certainly expect him to continue to have the better statistics. We can argue about the difference between FF and NFL value, but it's not relevant here. What will be interesting to me is to see what happens if SD continues to improve its running game and/or wins more games. Will Rivers put up similar stats on a 12-4 Chargers team? I expect that he will, but it's not uncommon to see a QB put up slightly lesser stats when his team wins more games.

 

[The Jerk]

Do Steeler fans really think anyone is looking at their posts seriously in a Rothisbuger thread? Some of you guys have good stuff, but the majority are just transparent as heck homers..If theirs a thread with Ben in it, better believe there's several Steeler fan's in their ready to defend their god...

Thankfully, we have you in all these threads, because you're always so neutral and measured when it comes to your posts about all things Steeler.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

The Giants have a ring with Eli and I don't think Rivers or anyone else would have played any better than Eli during that span.

I cannot believe peole are even comparing Rivers with Biv Ben. Ben's been to 3 SBs and may have 3 rings. Rivers has so much to prove compared to Ben it's not even funny.

Put Rivers in with the Tony Romo pile.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Do Steeler fans really think anyone is looking at their posts seriously in a Rothisbuger thread? Some of you guys have good stuff, but the majority are just transparent as heck homers..If theirs a thread with Ben in it, better believe there's several Steeler fan's in their ready to defend their god...

Yes I'd prefer to attach credibility onto a post that looks as if it were typed by my 7-year old daughter.

 

[cvnpoka]

Rivers had the #1 defense in the league, a cakewalk of a division and didn't make the playoffs this year. Hard to put him ahead of Ben at this point.

this is just asinine reasoning.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Rivers had the #1 defense in the league, a cakewalk of a division and didn't make the playoffs this year. Hard to put him ahead of Ben at this point.

this is just asinine reasoning.

Ok. How about if I mention that Rivers has thrown more INT than TD when he makes the playoffs?

 

[KentGraham10]

If we wanna rank them in terms of winning games in the NFL, have to go by the rings Big Ben, Eli, Rivers.

If we wanna rank them in terms of FF, have to go in reverse order.

 

[cvnpoka]

Rivers had the #1 defense in the league, a cakewalk of a division and didn't make the playoffs this year. Hard to put him ahead of Ben at this point.

this is just asinine reasoning.

Ok. How about if I mention that Rivers has thrown more INT than TD when he makes the playoffs?

similarly weak and incomplete

 

[Tau837]

Will Rivers put up similar stats on a 12-4 Chargers team? I expect that he will, but it's not uncommon to see a QB put up slightly lesser stats when his team wins more games.

It depends on how you define similar. Consider that Rivers scored 348 fantasy points (FBG scoring) this year and was QB5 while the Chargers went 9-7, and compare that to last year, when Rivers scored 331 fantasy points (FBG scoring) and was QB7 while the Chargers went 13-3. (And note that in 2009, Rivers only played the first quarter in week 17... entering week 17, he was QB6, 3 points behind QB5.)

 

[Fensalk]

Rivers had the #1 defense in the league, a cakewalk of a division and didn't make the playoffs this year. Hard to put him ahead of Ben at this point.

The Chargers won 9 games, the Steelers won 12. The key difference between the two clubs is that the Steelers were top 5 in creating turnovers, while the Chargers defense was almost at the bottom in fumbles and only average in interceptions. If you make the Chargers' defense top 5 in creating turnovers, they probably win 12 games. If Steelers' defense doesn't create all those turnovers, they might only win 9 games.The Chargers also had crappy special teams.None of this has anything to do with Rivers.

 

[Tau837]

Rivers had the #1 defense in the league, a cakewalk of a division and didn't make the playoffs this year. Hard to put him ahead of Ben at this point.

The Chargers won 9 games, the Steelers won 12. The key difference between the two clubs is that the Steelers were top 5 in creating turnovers, while the Chargers defense was almost at the bottom in fumbles and only average in interceptions. If you make the Chargers' defense top 5 in creating turnovers, they probably win 12 games. If Steelers' defense doesn't create all those turnovers, they might only win 9 games.The Chargers also had crappy special teams.None of this has anything to do with Rivers.

The key difference was actually that the Chargers had special teams among the worst in NFL history. Special teams that cost them 4 games. (You mentioned special teams, but did not weight them sufficiently.)Agree it still has nothing to do with Rivers.

 

[The Jerk]

Will Rivers put up similar stats on a 12-4 Chargers team? I expect that he will, but it's not uncommon to see a QB put up slightly lesser stats when his team wins more games.

It depends on how you define similar. Consider that Rivers scored 348 fantasy points (FBG scoring) this year and was QB5 while the Chargers went 9-7, and compare that to last year, when Rivers scored 331 fantasy points (FBG scoring) and was QB7 while the Chargers went 13-3. (And note that in 2009, Rivers only played the first quarter in week 17... entering week 17, he was QB6, 3 points behind QB5.)

Don't leave out the part of my post concerning the apparent increased emphasis on running as the 2010 season progressed. It may be just a matchup thing or a fluke or whatever, but there was clearly a difference. There's a good chance at least some of that change corresponded to the fact the Chargers did not need to pass because they weren't losing like they did early in 2010.Just consider this trend in Rivers fpg by standard FBG scoring:2009 games 1-4: 23.42009 games 5-8: 21.82009 games 9-12: 22.12009 games 13-15 & 17: 22.12010 games 1-4: 26.02010 games 5-8: 23.22010 games 9-12: 22.42010 games 13-16: 19.6Note that I included the playoff game to replace the partial game in 2009.It's probably just an anomaly or coincidence to see Rivers production dip more or less in concert with the Chargers winning more late in 2010, but it doesn't hurt to at least notice that in the first 10 games of 2010, Rivers threw 23 TDs. In the final six games, he threw 7 TDs.This is not about Rivers vs. Ben vs. Eli. This is just about what to potentially expect out of the San Diego offense next season. Will it be more like 2009 or do we see the upgraded running game of the final 5-6 games of 2010?

 

[bucksoh]

Need to factor in several things like Rivers worst line is still considerably better than Bens best line. Skilled positions Rivers has had more to work with throughout his entire career excluding this year when most of his skill players were injured. Plays in arguably the worst division in football. Fantasy I would go with Rivers, real game I would take Ben.

 

[cvnpoka]

Need to factor in several things like Rivers worst line is still considerably better than Bens best line. Skilled positions Rivers has had more to work with throughout his entire career excluding this year when most of his skill players were injured. Plays in arguably the worst division in football. Fantasy I would go with Rivers, real game I would take Ben.

def disagree that rivers has had better offensive skill players around him than roeth, on average.

 

[Cenobite]

The correct pick is definitely Rivers at this point.

Agreed - signed, a Giants and Eli fan. This should have been set up as a poll.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Rivers great, but Big Ben would best serve Chargers

By Pat Kirwan NFL.com

Senior Analyst

Published: April 8, 2011 at 08:17 p.m. Updated: April 12, 2011 at 05:17 p.m.

Of course, there are no do-overs when it comes to the NFL draft. You simply live with the picks you make, whether they work out or not. But what if teams could go back and rewrite history? This week, NFL.com will do just that by looking at each draft from 2004 to 2008 and assign do-overs based on what we know now. Today, Pat Kirwan rewrites 2004.

I remember the 2004 NFL Draft vividly. I did my show on Sirius NFL Radio from Radio City Music Hall and witnessed the introduction of what might go down as the greatest quarterback class in NFL history. Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger already have three Super Bowl championships between them, which eclipses the famed trio of 1983 -- John Elway, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino.

Those three turned out to be Hall-of-Fame quarterbacks, and only time will tell if Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger eventually get to Canton. The biggest lesson 2004 offered was to never pass on the chance to draft a franchise quarterback, which is something several teams are still regretting seven years later.

1. San Diego Chargers

Actual pick: Eli Manning

Do-over pick: Ben Roethlisberger

Rivers has had an outstanding career and is the main reason for the Chargers' run of success. But unlike Roethlisberger, he hasn't won the big one. Bottom line: Roethlisberger has been to three Super Bowls and come up with two rings. The guy is a winner.

2. Oakland Raiders

Actual pick: Robert Gallery

Do-over pick: Philip Rivers

What didn't happen with the second pick will haunt the Raiders for a decade. Even though they still had Rich Gannon, he was 38 years old, and Oakland needed to look to the future -- which was not Marques Tuiasosopo or Kerry Collins, whom they acquired in 2004. Gannon threw 68 passes in 2004 to end his career. Can you imagine if the Raiders had selected Rivers? Maybe they would be 8-2 against the Chargers instead of 2-8.

3. Arizona Cardinals

Actual pick: Larry Fitzgerald

Do-over pick: Fitzgerald

Although they got a great player in Fitzgerald, this was another team with a QB question at the time. Their starter in 2003 was Jeff Blake, but they opted to pass on Rivers and Roethlisberger. At least Fitzgerald has been one of the game's top receivers during his career -- maybe the best.

4. New York Giants

Actual pick: Philip Rivers

Do-over pick: Eli Manning

The Giants got their man, and the Super Bowl victory over the previously undefeated Patriots confirmed the trade on draft day was the right move.

Link to full story

 

[Go deep]

Rivers great, but Big Ben would best serve Chargers

By Pat Kirwan NFL.com

Senior Analyst

Published: April 8, 2011 at 08:17 p.m. Updated: April 12, 2011 at 05:17 p.m.

Of course, there are no do-overs when it comes to the NFL draft. You simply live with the picks you make, whether they work out or not. But what if teams could go back and rewrite history? This week, NFL.com will do just that by looking at each draft from 2004 to 2008 and assign do-overs based on what we know now. Today, Pat Kirwan rewrites 2004.

I remember the 2004 NFL Draft vividly. I did my show on Sirius NFL Radio from Radio City Music Hall and witnessed the introduction of what might go down as the greatest quarterback class in NFL history. Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger already have three Super Bowl championships between them, which eclipses the famed trio of 1983 -- John Elway, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino.

Those three turned out to be Hall-of-Fame quarterbacks, and only time will tell if Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger eventually get to Canton. The biggest lesson 2004 offered was to never pass on the chance to draft a franchise quarterback, which is something several teams are still regretting seven years later.

1. San Diego Chargers

Actual pick: Eli Manning

Do-over pick: Ben Roethlisberger

Rivers has had an outstanding career and is the main reason for the Chargers' run of success. But unlike Roethlisberger, he hasn't won the big one. Bottom line: Roethlisberger has been to three Super Bowls and come up with two rings. The guy is a winner.

2. Oakland Raiders

Actual pick: Robert Gallery

Do-over pick: Philip Rivers

What didn't happen with the second pick will haunt the Raiders for a decade. Even though they still had Rich Gannon, he was 38 years old, and Oakland needed to look to the future -- which was not Marques Tuiasosopo or Kerry Collins, whom they acquired in 2004. Gannon threw 68 passes in 2004 to end his career. Can you imagine if the Raiders had selected Rivers? Maybe they would be 8-2 against the Chargers instead of 2-8.

3. Arizona Cardinals

Actual pick: Larry Fitzgerald

Do-over pick: Fitzgerald

Although they got a great player in Fitzgerald, this was another team with a QB question at the time. Their starter in 2003 was Jeff Blake, but they opted to pass on Rivers and Roethlisberger. At least Fitzgerald has been one of the game's top receivers during his career -- maybe the best.

4. New York Giants

Actual pick: Philip Rivers

Do-over pick: Eli Manning

The Giants got their man, and the Super Bowl victory over the previously undefeated Patriots confirmed the trade on draft day was the right move.

Link to full story

Big Ben is a great QB, but i have to imagine if Rivers ended up on the Steelers and Ben on the Chargers, the results would have been the same for each team.

 

[B Maverick]

Rivers great, but Big Ben would best serve Chargers

By Pat Kirwan NFL.com

Senior Analyst

Published: April 8, 2011 at 08:17 p.m. Updated: April 12, 2011 at 05:17 p.m.

Of course, there are no do-overs when it comes to the NFL draft. You simply live with the picks you make, whether they work out or not. But what if teams could go back and rewrite history? This week, NFL.com will do just that by looking at each draft from 2004 to 2008 and assign do-overs based on what we know now. Today, Pat Kirwan rewrites 2004.

I remember the 2004 NFL Draft vividly. I did my show on Sirius NFL Radio from Radio City Music Hall and witnessed the introduction of what might go down as the greatest quarterback class in NFL history. Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger already have three Super Bowl championships between them, which eclipses the famed trio of 1983 -- John Elway, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino.

Those three turned out to be Hall-of-Fame quarterbacks, and only time will tell if Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger eventually get to Canton. The biggest lesson 2004 offered was to never pass on the chance to draft a franchise quarterback, which is something several teams are still regretting seven years later.

1. San Diego Chargers

Actual pick: Eli Manning

Do-over pick: Ben Roethlisberger

Rivers has had an outstanding career and is the main reason for the Chargers' run of success. But unlike Roethlisberger, he hasn't won the big one. Bottom line: Roethlisberger has been to three Super Bowls and come up with two rings. The guy is a winner.

2. Oakland Raiders

Actual pick: Robert Gallery

Do-over pick: Philip Rivers

What didn't happen with the second pick will haunt the Raiders for a decade. Even though they still had Rich Gannon, he was 38 years old, and Oakland needed to look to the future -- which was not Marques Tuiasosopo or Kerry Collins, whom they acquired in 2004. Gannon threw 68 passes in 2004 to end his career. Can you imagine if the Raiders had selected Rivers? Maybe they would be 8-2 against the Chargers instead of 2-8.

3. Arizona Cardinals

Actual pick: Larry Fitzgerald

Do-over pick: Fitzgerald

Although they got a great player in Fitzgerald, this was another team with a QB question at the time. Their starter in 2003 was Jeff Blake, but they opted to pass on Rivers and Roethlisberger. At least Fitzgerald has been one of the game's top receivers during his career -- maybe the best.

4. New York Giants

Actual pick: Philip Rivers

Do-over pick: Eli Manning

The Giants got their man, and the Super Bowl victory over the previously undefeated Patriots confirmed the trade on draft day was the right move.

Link to full story

Big Ben is a great QB, but i have to imagine if Rivers ended up on the Steelers and Ben on the Chargers, the results would have been the same for each team.

I agree. Ben is perfect for Pitt and their system. In SD, I dont think Ben does any better then Rivers has done in wins, stats, championships, etc.

 

[Sabertooth]

I liked Big Ben before the draft and would still pick him over Rivers and Eli today even though all are elite QBs. Even when he has a bad game, he still makes one or two positive plays that make a significant difference in the outcome which is usually a win. That winning TD he threw to Holmes to win Superbowl XLIII was ridiculous. Yeah it was just one pass and he may not be as prolific a passer as Rivers, but I think there are clutch plays and throws he can make on the run that Rivers and Eli could never make. He seems like a perfect fit for the Steelers and I don't think they would be better off with Rivers or Eli.

I'm not sure Ben is elite. He's got the hardware in spite of himself. The contrast in ability between him and Rodgers was very apparent in the Super Bowl. Plus he's a scumbag.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Manning is the right pick at this point.

 

[ImTheScientist]

I liked Big Ben before the draft and would still pick him over Rivers and Eli today even though all are elite QBs. Even when he has a bad game, he still makes one or two positive plays that make a significant difference in the outcome which is usually a win. That winning TD he threw to Holmes to win Superbowl XLIII was ridiculous. Yeah it was just one pass and he may not be as prolific a passer as Rivers, but I think there are clutch plays and throws he can make on the run that Rivers and Eli could never make. He seems like a perfect fit for the Steelers and I don't think they would be better off with Rivers or Eli.

I'm not sure Ben is elite. He's got the hardware in spite of himself. The contrast in ability between him and Rodgers was very apparent in the Super Bowl. Plus he's a scumbag.

Big Ben is not Elite, his team has been. He is also a scum bag and the NY media would have ate that guy alive.

 

[Sabertooth]

Isn't his combined Super Bowl QB rating like 64 or something like that?

 

[Goldalene]

Rivers > Ben > Eli

 

[ImTheScientist]

Rivers > Ben > Eli

Rivers does not have a ring, therefor he can not be #1.Eli > Rivers > Ben

 

[Go deep]

Rivers > Ben > Eli

Rivers does not have a ring, therefor he can not be #1.Eli > Rivers > Ben

Then how can Rivers be ahead of Ben?

 

[B Maverick]

Rivers > Ben > Eli

Rivers does not have a ring, therefor he can not be #1.Eli > Rivers > Ben

So does that mean Dilfer > Marino?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Ben just got to his 3rd Super Bowl in 8 seasons.

The Steelers, for as great as the team is, had been to 1 in the previous 23 seasons before his arrival.

 

[Jous]

I like Rivers a lot and I feel Eli has always been underrated, but Roethlisberger is the guy you want out of the three.

Ask yourself this, if all 3 retired today, who would be the one guy that would receive Hall of Fame consideration?

Roethlisberger. Unless Rivers starts winning championships and Big Ben stops doing it, history will remember Roethlisberger as the superior player.

 

[LTF]

Last time I checked, Roethlisberger has a QB rating of 97 or higher in five of his seven seasons in the NFL, and has led his team to three SBs in that time, winning two.

The last two years he's averaging 278 yards passing a game. And in his last 32 regular season games, he has 49 passing TDs to 21 INTs.

Factor in all the other intangibles as a runner, an overall playmaker, his play on third down and in the fourth quarter, a career 70+% winning percentage w/playoffs, his career YPA of 8.0... he's one of the best QBs in football and doesn't deserve half the hate he receives. He's probably the most unconventional QB in modern history, but that doesn't mean he's not a hell of a football player.

 

[craxie]

there are a lot of very good arguments for Ben over Rivers, but a lot of these aren't

Roethlisberger has a QB rating of 97 or higher in five of his seven seasons in the NFL

Career passer ratingBen: 92.5

Rivers: 97.2

The last two years he's averaging 278 yards passing a game.

YPG (last 2 years)Ben: 7,528 yards / 27 games = 278.8

Rivers: 8,964 yards / 32 games = 280.1

And in his last 32 regular season games, he has 49 passing TDs to 21 INTs.

TD/INT (last 32 regular season games)Ben: 49/21

Rivers: 58/22

his career YPA of 8.0...

Career YPABen: 8.0

Rivers: 8.0

Career ANY/A

Ben: 6.4

Rivers: 7.3

but that doesn't mean he's not a hell of a football player.

obviously

 

[FUBAR]

Last time I checked, Roethlisberger has a QB rating of 97 or higher in five of his seven seasons in the NFL, and has led his team to three SBs in that time, winning two. The last two years he's averaging 278 yards passing a game. And in his last 32 regular season games, he has 49 passing TDs to 21 INTs. Factor in all the other intangibles as a runner, an overall playmaker, his play on third down and in the fourth quarter, a career 70+% winning percentage w/playoffs, his career YPA of 8.0... he's one of the best QBs in football and doesn't deserve half the hate he receives. He's probably the most unconventional QB in modern history, but that doesn't mean he's not a hell of a football player.

I'm sure most people in Pittsburgh are happy with Ben's play, but most of his success is due to his supporting cast and defense. Rivers does a lot more himself and (IMO) would have at least two championships if he had the Steelers D. Ben's a fine QB, Rivers is just better.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Rivers would have at least two championships if he had the Steelers D.

LOL!

Rivers would have never won that championship three years ago behind that line, guaran-#######-teed.

Oh yeah, the Chargers had the #1 defense last year... and they were home for the playoffs despite Rivers stats. Imagine that.

 

[Yenrub]

Rivers would have at least two championships if he had the Steelers D.

LOL!

Rivers would have never won that championship three years ago behind that line, guaran-#######-teed.

Oh yeah, the Chargers had the #1 defense last year... and they were home for the playoffs despite Rivers stats. Imagine that.

Maybe. Maybe not. Rivers ability to read defenses quickly and his quick release might have made the Steelers offensive line look better.

And the Chargers special teams or lack thereof was a huge reason they didn’t make the playoffs

 

[LTF]

Last time I checked, Roethlisberger has a QB rating of 97 or higher in five of his seven seasons in the NFL, and has led his team to three SBs in that time, winning two. The last two years he's averaging 278 yards passing a game. And in his last 32 regular season games, he has 49 passing TDs to 21 INTs. Factor in all the other intangibles as a runner, an overall playmaker, his play on third down and in the fourth quarter, a career 70+% winning percentage w/playoffs, his career YPA of 8.0... he's one of the best QBs in football and doesn't deserve half the hate he receives. He's probably the most unconventional QB in modern history, but that doesn't mean he's not a hell of a football player.

I'm sure most people in Pittsburgh are happy with Ben's play, but most of his success is due to his supporting cast and defense. Rivers does a lot more himself and (IMO) would have at least two championships if he had the Steelers D. Ben's a fine QB, Rivers is just better.

Roethlisberger has played behind one of the worst offensive lines in football for years now. He went to the SB with Jonathan "I was so bad even the Bills cut me" Scott and Flozell freakin' Adams as his starting tackles. He previously won a SB with what several who have played the game have said was the worst starting offensive line to win a SB in history. He's won a SB with Cedric Wilson as a starting #2 receiver, as well as one with his best receiver Hines Ward basically only serving as a decoy and playing on a messed up knee. In this past SB two of his top three starting receivers were Hines Ward and Antwaan Randle El. Neither at this point in their careers would start for most of the teams in the NFL at those same spots. And let's not act like Rivers has been really hurting for help. For most of his career he's had guys like Vincent Jackson, Antonio Gates, and one of the best multi-purpose RBs in modern NFL history in Tomlinson to work with. And he's played in routinely one of the weakest divisions in all of football. And he doesn't have to play in the sludge and cold weather in Pittsburgh. And he's had the luxury of playing with a terrific offensive mind in Norv Turner. Ben is perfect for what the Steelers need and I'm sure you'd agree with that, but I don't agree with this idea that he wouldn't put up big numbers elsewhere (and I think in other systems with other talent around him he'd put up even better numbers). Put a guy like Ben in a dome with a high quality offensive line in front of him, and I think he'd pretty damn hard to stop. Rivers is a terrific passer. One of the best in the game. But I don't think there's some hugely significant disparity between the two. And I think Ben is the better overall football player when you consider everything he does to help a team win a game. That's obviously debatable, but Ben Roethlisberger is probably the most underrated QB of this generation. You don't take your team to three SBs in seven years (winning two of them) and not be a fan-freakin'-tastic QB and borderline legendary player. Sorry.

 

[Yenrub]

Last time I checked, Roethlisberger has a QB rating of 97 or higher in five of his seven seasons in the NFL, and has led his team to three SBs in that time, winning two.

The last two years he's averaging 278 yards passing a game. And in his last 32 regular season games, he has 49 passing TDs to 21 INTs.

Factor in all the other intangibles as a runner, an overall playmaker, his play on third down and in the fourth quarter, a career 70+% winning percentage w/playoffs, his career YPA of 8.0... he's one of the best QBs in football and doesn't deserve half the hate he receives. He's probably the most unconventional QB in modern history, but that doesn't mean he's not a hell of a football player.

I'm sure most people in Pittsburgh are happy with Ben's play, but most of his success is due to his supporting cast and defense. Rivers does a lot more himself and (IMO) would have at least two championships if he had the Steelers D. Ben's a fine QB, Rivers is just better.

Roethlisberger has played behind one of the worst offensive lines in football for years now. He went to the SB with Jonathan "I was so bad even the Bills cut me" Scott and Flozell freakin' Adams as his starting tackles. He previously won a SB with what several who have played the game have said was the worst starting offensive line to win a SB in history. He's won a SB with Cedric Wilson as a starting #2 receiver, as well as one with his best receiver Hines Ward basically only serving as a decoy and playing on a messed up knee. In this past SB two of his top three starting receivers were Hines Ward and Antwaan Randle El. Neither at this point in their careers would start for most of the teams in the NFL at those same spots. And let's not act like Rivers has been really hurting for help. For most of his career he's had guys like Vincent Jackson, Antonio Gates, and one of the best multi-purpose RBs in modern NFL history in Tomlinson to work with. And he's played in routinely one of the weakest divisions in all of football. And he doesn't have to play in the sludge and cold weather in Pittsburgh. And he's had the luxury of playing with a terrific offensive mind in Norv Turner.

Ben is perfect for what the Steelers need and I'm sure you'd agree with that, but I don't agree with this idea that he wouldn't put up big numbers elsewhere (and I think in other systems with other talent around him he'd put up even better numbers). Put a guy like Ben in a dome with a high quality offensive line in front of him, and I think he'd pretty damn hard to stop.

Rivers is a terrific passer. One of the best in the game. But I don't think there's some hugely significant disparity between the two. And I think Ben is the better overall football player when you consider everything he does to help a team win a game. That's obviously debatable, but Ben Roethlisberger is probably the most underrated QB of this generation. You don't take your team to three SBs in seven years (winning two of them) and not be a fan-freakin'-tastic QB and borderline legendary player. Sorry.

Yet another example of the QB getting too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when the team loses.I recall the Steelers having very good defenses for their last two SB wins.

 

[LTF]

Yet another example of the QB getting too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when the team loses.I recall the Steelers having very good defenses for their last two SB wins.

And I recall Aaron Rodgers having one hell of a defense (#2 scoring D in the entire league) to help him get to and win his SB. And Tom Brady, who had the #6, #1, and #2 scoring defenses respectively in his three championship years. Or the countless other SB-winning QBs who have relied on the overall play of their defense to get to and win a SB. It's not like you're breaking ground on any new information here. But something tells me you wouldn't use this argument against them or other QBs as quickly as you'd throw it out against Roethlisberger. In fact, I don't think this is a great example to use your point on, considering I don't think there's a QB who gets LESS credit for his play given his team's accomplishments than Roethlisberger does. My god, the guy takes his team to 3 SBs in 6 years and you've still got people talking about how they think Matt Schaub or Tony Romo are better football players.

 

[FUBAR]

Rivers would have at least two championships if he had the Steelers D.

LOL!

Rivers would have never won that championship three years ago behind that line, guaran-#######-teed.

Oh yeah, the Chargers had the #1 defense last year... and they were home for the playoffs despite Rivers stats. Imagine that.

The Chargers gave up 90 more points than the Steelers D last year. 12 fewer turnovers. I'll take the less points and more turnovers, you take the meaningless yardage.

 

[FUBAR]

Yet another example of the QB getting too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when the team loses.

I recall the Steelers having very good defenses for their last two SB wins.

And I recall Aaron Rodgers having one hell of a defense (#2 scoring D in the entire league) to help him get to and win his SB. And Tom Brady, who had the #6, #1, and #2 scoring defenses respectively in his three championship years. Or the countless other SB-winning QBs who have relied on the overall play of their defense to get to and win a SB. It's not like you're breaking ground on any new information here. But something tells me you wouldn't use this argument against them or other QBs as quickly as you'd throw it out against Roethlisberger. In fact, I don't think this is a great example to use your point on, considering I don't think there's a QB who gets LESS credit for his play given his team's accomplishments than Roethlisberger does. My god, the guy takes his team to 3 SBs in 6 years and you've still got people talking about how they think Matt Schaub or Tony Romo are better football players.

That's a stretch, but IMO there's a Tier 1 (Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees) and a Tier 2 which is somewhat less clear but includes Rivers and Ben. There isn't a lot of difference in overall quality between the two.

 

[Fiddles]

4 sbs between Eli and Ben. Insane class. Love fensalks post btw. Good summary of what he brings to these boards.