ERA-DRIVEN STARS? (1 Viewer)

[kremenull]

Over the years, I'm now entering my 5th different decade of seriously watching/following NFL football, I like to believe that I can discern between players who are legitimately deserving of 'elite' tag, whether it is based on physical ability or football ability, from those who I'll consider "era-driven stars". You have to have numbers, no doubt, but the numbers don't tell the entire story for me. You have to have "it". A guy like Gale Sayers had "it"........Bo Jackson had "it".......and I'd consider them both 'elite' without a shadow of a doubt based on their superior physical abilities that they displayed on the field at the highest level (NFL), even if for only a short while, regardless of situation (didn't need favorable blocking, certain system, etc).

In today's environment, I see and hear the term being overused with reference to current players and prospects. It is unimaginable to me to see the likes of Moreno (yes, I do recall seeing his name and elite together on these boards at this time last year), Crabtree, and now Dez Bryant, described as being 'elite'. Now, don't get me wrong here, as these guys are very nice talents and fine football players, but 'elite' js represents rarified air and reserved territory to me. Otherwise, it is cheapened and anybody and everybody who puts up some numbers somewhere is then considered 'elite' or 'potentially elite'. I'm js not buying it.

In this pass happy era and with rules conducive and favorable to offenses in almost every way, putting up good numbers is almost based more on situation than talent. Guys like Welker, Colston, and Reggie Wayne would be marginal players if you remove them from their current situations and place them in other locales. Whereas truly elite players (e.g., Fitz, Moss, Peterson) can thrive anywhere, in any era. Don't even bring up the Raiders-Moss situation, irrelevant to the discussion and more to do with Moss' effort than anything else.

In comparing another truly elite talent like Calvin vs Dez and vs Crabtree, one way to look at this is of course, by ceiling. And if you are truly an elite player, you have to be able to be amongst the best ever (recall "reserved", "rarified") in the type of numbers that you can put up. Jerry Rice hauling in 22 TDs (in a strike-shortened season, no less) and Barry running hog-wild enroute to 2k rushing season (at over 6 ypc behind a putrid DET o-line). So in this analysis, I see guys like Dez and Crabtree more as "era-driven stars", or products of their system, being the primary component of their success (not to mention that it was collegiate success), whereas Calvin has already put together a phenomenal NFL "triple-threat" campaign, high TDs, mega-yardage, and high ypr. Moving forward, this kid's numbers may embarrass much of the field in a fashion similar to how Rice and Moss did to their contemporaries. 'Elite' status, let's debunk the myth, whether in fantasy or NFL realm ......

Here is my short list of contemporary guys who, when its all said and done, will truly be amongst the 'elite'......in no particular order, and no QBs

Adrian Peterson

Ladanian Tomlinson

Chris Johnson

Larry Fitzgerald

Andre Johnson

Terrell Owens

Randy Moss

Calvin Johnson

Tony Gonzalez

Young Guys w/ at least a small, likely very small in each case, chance

Jonathan Stewart

Beanie Wells

C.J. Spiller

Maurice Jones-Drew

Felix Jones

Dez Bryant

Miles Austin

Michael Crabtree

DeSean Jackson

Percy Harvin

Jermichael Finley

ETA: MJD....

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

I get your point, and there is plenty of exaggeration for effect on football message boards.

However, I think most posters are usually talking about fantasy stats when they use the elite tag. Welker is clearly not "elite"... but he sure is an elite PPR WR; that type of thing.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I am closing in on 40 years old and I'm not familiar with the term era-driven star, what is the definition and I can properly reply.

 

[KoolKat]

Ray Rice has no chance to become elite?

 

[kremenull]

I am closing in on 40 years old and I'm not familiar with the term era-driven star, what is the definition and I can properly reply.

yeah, not too obvious since I made it up.......sorry bout the confusion.It pretty much boils down to 'system-players'. In today's game, many players, and their stardom, whether it be high- or low-level star status, are byproducts of their scheme and much of the favorable (offensive) rules. Drew Brees, taking nothing away from him, would be a Pat Haden type in a different era, but with 4- and 5-WR sets, hands-off QBs, ad no contact to WRs after 5 yards, he's, well, Drew Brees (Superstar Today). Welker would not even able to crack a srtaring lineup avg'ing less than 10-11 ypr as he does in a generation previous. He's no Steve Largent. How many RBs did Denver make look fabulous, incl Terrell Davis, with their cut-bloc......err, I mean 'zone'-blocking system..........The primary point is that some guys will translate and produce no matter what, system, era, surrounding cast, whatever.If you are truly elite, that is.....

 

[FantasyTrader]

I get your point, and there is plenty of exaggeration for effect on football message boards.However, I think most posters are usually talking about fantasy stats when they use the elite tag. Welker is clearly not "elite"... but he sure is an elite PPR WR; that type of thing.

This. It's a fantasy football message board. Elite can be darn near anything on any given Sunday.

 

[Crimson King]

I like the idea of this discussion, but agree with Lott's that many people who use the term "elite" on the boards do so in relation to fantasy stats not necessarily talent. However, the idea of looking at the truly elite talents of today is intriguing and for the most part I'm in agreement with the current list you posted as well as the borderline elite group although I'd put MJD in the "Elite" category. He's been a special player since his rookie year.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I agree that elite is probably an over-used term. However, the use of the term really should be taken in context where it might make a little more sense.

For example, you might have an "elite" RB in high school. Is that same guy "elite" in D1 ball? Is he elite in the NFL? Maybe not, and probably not, but that really doesn't mean he isn't truly elite in the context of a particular discussion. Eras could be the same way. A guy could be considered legitimately elite for a particular span of years, and not be "elite" enough for HOF consideration. It all depends on the context and usage.

I also agree that some guys are "system players" and are fortunate to be where they are at the time they are.

At the same time, I believe that there are different COMBINATIONs of player/system that can makes an "elite" situation. There are some cases that the player wold be elite in any system (though these are obviously rare). There are other cases where the system is very very good and might drive a handful of players into the apparent "elite" category. Then there are the situations where BOTH the player and the system combine to make an elite situation, where not just any player can be thrown into the system to make it work, but the player may not be considered elite in a different system.

Bottom line, I don't think the "system player" discussion is always clear cut, and it is VERY difficult to prove one way or the other. A classic argument is Emmitt Smith. Would Smith be as elite (in his prime) somewhere other than Dallas? Would some other back be as elite in Dallas during their prime? A lot of very different opinions on that.

 

[Zoomanji]

kremenull is one of the elite posters here at FBG

 

[Donnybrook]

Where would you put Terrelle Pryor and Dominique Rodgers Cromartie.

 

[travdogg]

Like the list, I only have two nits to pick as far as the elite player lists.

From the proven elite guys, I see Steve Smith in that category. He is/was an elite playmaker and is the only active WR to win the WR triple crown.

For future elite players, Vernon Davis seems like an omission. Maybe 2009 was a fluke I guess, but it seems more likely it was just the beginning of a great, albeit late blooming, career.

I also agree on Bryant and Crabtree, I like both of them and think they will both have fine careers, but I don't see elite players there. I see them both as very good but not quite elite guys, or era-driven stars like you said.