griff321
Footballguy
Very much so and he just killed Deck's value. I wouldn't drop him, but I'd definitely take the stash route for a few weeks until we see what Tebow can do with a gameplan. I'm not confident in his ability at all.
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Eric Decker (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tinman
- Start date
5 rec, 70 yds, maybe a TD.... people are really underestimating Tebow... he buys time and gives guys the chance to get open.. Lloyd did just fine last year when Tebow was under center... why can't Decker?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I'm rolling with him. At Miami I think you are going to have a pretty crazy crowd situation down there. Sometimes you just have take a chance.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I suspect that Fox will install something similar to the spread offense Tebow was used to running at Florida. It just puts Tebow in the best position to succeed and the spread seems to be working in the NFL this year (albiet with more TE sets in many cases). IF that is the case, (and that is a big IF) Decker likely takes Harvin's joker role. Meaning he would be moved around to cause mismatches and make it difficult for teams to just take him out of the offense (sans a shutdown corner shadowing him). Again, this is all speculation, although from someone who has watched every game Tebow has played since high school. Who can really say without seeing what they take the field with. Just seems to make sense, at least to me.
LawFitz
Footballguy
I like it. My main fear here is the suck for Luck angle.I suspect that Fox will install something similar to the spread offense Tebow was used to running at Florida. It just puts Tebow in the best position to succeed and the spread seems to be working in the NFL this year (albiet with more TE sets in many cases). IF that is the case, (and that is a big IF) Decker likely takes Harvin's joker role. Meaning he would be moved around to cause mismatches and make it difficult for teams to just take him out of the offense (sans a shutdown corner shadowing him). Again, this is all speculation, although from someone who has watched every game Tebow has played since high school. Who can really say without seeing what they take the field with. Just seems to make sense, at least to me.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
I still don't understand how anyone can believe an entire NFL team - from the management & coaches down to the players - would purposefully go out and lose games all season long in order to get the #1 draft pick. The ONLY time I can see this even possibly happening would be the last week of the year, if a team needed to lose in order to secure that spot. And even then, it's a little hard to believe you could convince all the players to do such a thing.
morris4903
Footballguy
You think Tebow is going to tank so someone can take his job? That's the same for everybody on the team.
Khy
Footballguy
I'm starting him out of not having another option. However, I don't feel terrible about the start. My normal starting 3 WRs are Roddy, Bowe and Welker so Welker being on a bye is likely a massive downgrade going to Decker. Who knows though, maybe Tebow and Decker build one of those rookie QB to WR relationships early in the game and Decker pulls in 8rec 110yds and a TD or two. It is far from out of the question... especially against the MIA defense that made one of the worst QB performances I've seen in a long time last night look like a real QB. Sanchez was a joke for most of that game and MIA was just letting WRs get open all over the field with nobody even around them for 10-15 yards. If Tebow sees those kind of openings 5-10 Rec, 100+ yds and a TD+ are far from out of the question.
So yea... rolling with him and possibly Tebow over Matt Ryan this week and hoping for the best.
So yea... rolling with him and possibly Tebow over Matt Ryan this week and hoping for the best.
BuckeyeBrigage
Footballguy
Rolling with Decker this week no questions asked. He produced in the previous 2 weeks I started him after his breakout week. Now that Lloyd is gone even better. Decker will be my WR3 and having Tebow is fine by me the Fins suck as well. Going for 7-0 this week. Rock it out Decker!!
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
What do you think the chances are Decker is even better than he was with Orton (combined with Lloyd leaving) compared to Tebow killing his value?
At this point I almost think its a coinflip. With 12 weeks left, I could see Tebow making him 900/8 guy the rest of the way as much as as a 500/4 guy, and thats a huge point gap.
At this point I almost think its a coinflip. With 12 weeks left, I could see Tebow making him 900/8 guy the rest of the way as much as as a 500/4 guy, and thats a huge point gap.
Khy
Footballguy
Yea... this is my fear as well. I know that right now I'm not even attempting to sell him to anyone as his value is probably floating around a WR3 or so with all the stuff happening in Denver. I'd assume what we see this week will be a good solid indicator of what type of targets/play to expect the rest of the season.
The_Wolfman
Footballguy
I haven't been following Decker closely, but he was dropped in my league and due to injuries/byes I was thinking about picking him up and starting him this week.
My question is...what was the deal with that 2 catch, -4 yard performance he had a couple weeks ago? Did he get hurt? Just bad QB play? It's a little scary starting a guy with a new QB coming off a performance like that
My question is...what was the deal with that 2 catch, -4 yard performance he had a couple weeks ago? Did he get hurt? Just bad QB play? It's a little scary starting a guy with a new QB coming off a performance like that
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Harvin was lethal when teams focused on Tebow. If effective, he almost forces you to dedicate a shadow on him. Because of his size, a safety (in the SEC) wasn't big enough. He literally ran over most, if not all, of the bigger safeties in the SEC that Florida faced. I think people are underestimating the effect that has on defensive calls (assuming he is able to run effectively and often enough to force defenses adjust in the NFL). If he is gutting you, you have to play him close to the line of scrimmage with a fast linebacker. Someone who can match-up. To play him effectively, the linebacker has to attack Tebow just about every down. Maybe in the NFL you can mix who the shadow is. Alot of the time (in the SEC) he was mobile enough to get away from the first man in. That would cause bigger problems as defensive schemes would breakdown as he ran around. Defenses aren't designed to last for more than a few seconds at a time. Players would need to make decisions that normally they don't need to make. Meanwhile, it would open up the second level of the defense as fast players would be running down the field on every snap (hello Eddie Royal's role). Meanwhile, you never knew where Harvin was going to line up and what pattern he was going to run. Or if he was just getting a hand-off. That put more pressure on defenses. It causes real problems. He is a unique talent. Just saying. Otto Graham comes to mind. Certainly can't think of anyone in the modern era to compare him to. I just don't think players are used to dealing with what he brings to the table. All of this is based on him being used as a runner first and what I saw at UF. I still think he probably struggles if the team gets behind by more than a couple of TDs. At least that was generally the case at UF. The gameplan probably can't change too much. He isn't going to be the next Peyton Manning.But if they are able to ball control and are efficient . . . who knows. He can be very effective.Back to Decker, once teams start keying on Tebow, I think it opens up the field for the WRs and the RBs. If Decker stays alert once the plays break down and goes to the open spaces, he could have good success.Alot of reasoning with no data though.
'Hairy Snowman said:Harvin was lethal when teams focused on Tebow. If effective, he almost forces you to dedicate a shadow on him. Because of his size, a safety (in the SEC) wasn't big enough. He literally ran over most, if not all, of the bigger safeties in the SEC that Florida faced. I think people are underestimating the effect that has on defensive calls (assuming he is able to run effectively and often enough to force defenses adjust in the NFL). If he is gutting you, you have to play him close to the line of scrimmage with a fast linebacker. Someone who can match-up. To play him effectively, the linebacker has to attack Tebow just about every down. Maybe in the NFL you can mix who the shadow is. Alot of the time (in the SEC) he was mobile enough to get away from the first man in. That would cause bigger problems as defensive schemes would breakdown as he ran around. Defenses aren't designed to last for more than a few seconds at a time. Players would need to make decisions that normally they don't need to make. Meanwhile, it would open up the second level of the defense as fast players would be running down the field on every snap (hello Eddie Royal's role). Meanwhile, you never knew where Harvin was going to line up and what pattern he was going to run. Or if he was just getting a hand-off. That put more pressure on defenses. It causes real problems. He is a unique talent. Just saying. Otto Graham comes to mind. Certainly can't think of anyone in the modern era to compare him to. I just don't think players are used to dealing with what he brings to the table. All of this is based on him being used as a runner first and what I saw at UF. I still think he probably struggles if the team gets behind by more than a couple of TDs. At least that was generally the case at UF. The gameplan probably can't change too much. He isn't going to be the next Peyton Manning.But if they are able to ball control and are efficient . . . who knows. He can be very effective.Back to Decker, once teams start keying on Tebow, I think it opens up the field for the WRs and the RBs. If Decker stays alert once the plays break down and goes to the open spaces, he could have good success.Alot of reasoning with no data though.'Kenny Powers said:
Where's the emoticon that says "Great Posting"? Thanks for the insight.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Thank you. Maybe should have posted it in a Tewbow thread, but I was on a roll.'Hairy Snowman said:Harvin was lethal when teams focused on Tebow. If effective, he almost forces you to dedicate a shadow on him. Because of his size, a safety (in the SEC) wasn't big enough. He literally ran over most, if not all, of the bigger safeties in the SEC that Florida faced. I think people are underestimating the effect that has on defensive calls (assuming he is able to run effectively and often enough to force defenses adjust in the NFL). If he is gutting you, you have to play him close to the line of scrimmage with a fast linebacker. Someone who can match-up. To play him effectively, the linebacker has to attack Tebow just about every down. Maybe in the NFL you can mix who the shadow is. Alot of the time (in the SEC) he was mobile enough to get away from the first man in. That would cause bigger problems as defensive schemes would breakdown as he ran around. Defenses aren't designed to last for more than a few seconds at a time. Players would need to make decisions that normally they don't need to make. Meanwhile, it would open up the second level of the defense as fast players would be running down the field on every snap (hello Eddie Royal's role). Meanwhile, you never knew where Harvin was going to line up and what pattern he was going to run. Or if he was just getting a hand-off. That put more pressure on defenses. It causes real problems. He is a unique talent. Just saying. Otto Graham comes to mind. Certainly can't think of anyone in the modern era to compare him to. I just don't think players are used to dealing with what he brings to the table. All of this is based on him being used as a runner first and what I saw at UF. I still think he probably struggles if the team gets behind by more than a couple of TDs. At least that was generally the case at UF. The gameplan probably can't change too much. He isn't going to be the next Peyton Manning.But if they are able to ball control and are efficient . . . who knows. He can be very effective.Back to Decker, once teams start keying on Tebow, I think it opens up the field for the WRs and the RBs. If Decker stays alert once the plays break down and goes to the open spaces, he could have good success.Alot of reasoning with no data though.'Kenny Powers said:
Grand Poobah
Footballguy
Really? OK'GCP said:
RamMan
Footballguy
For you guys watching a lot of Bronco football, first my condolences. Second, how do you see the WR breakdown taking shape now that Tebow is in and Lloyd is gone? Do you see Decker as the short possession guy while Thomas plays the Lloyd role? Will Royal continue to be the 3 receiver set/slot guy only?
I've heard that Tebow has trouble throwing to the middle of the field. Does that hurt Decker and point to more oppty's for a guy like Thomas playing deep and along the sidelines? All insights appreciated.
I've heard that Tebow has trouble throwing to the middle of the field. Does that hurt Decker and point to more oppty's for a guy like Thomas playing deep and along the sidelines? All insights appreciated.
Wouldn't Decker be more like the best of both Aaron Hernandez and Riley Cooper than Harvin?If Moreno wasn't hurt so much and kinda crappy, I could see him taking a Harvin-ish role.'Hairy Snowman said:I suspect that Fox will install something similar to the spread offense Tebow was used to running at Florida. It just puts Tebow in the best position to succeed and the spread seems to be working in the NFL this year (albiet with more TE sets in many cases). IF that is the case, (and that is a big IF) Decker likely takes Harvin's joker role. Meaning he would be moved around to cause mismatches and make it difficult for teams to just take him out of the offense (sans a shutdown corner shadowing him). Again, this is all speculation, although from someone who has watched every game Tebow has played since high school. Who can really say without seeing what they take the field with. Just seems to make sense, at least to me.'DeaLerZ said:
NYRAGE
Footballguy
and Hakeem Nicks I suppose
LawFitz
Footballguy
It doesn't have to be the entire team. Just some key figures. I don't for a second think Tebow or Decker will tank anything. But from Elway to Fox and down to any minions they might have that will follow their bidding, a conspiracy could easily come into play. If not now, then as the season progresses if the Broncos keep losing and/or if Tebow doesn't shine. Don't completely discount it.'LittlePhatty said:
DevilintheDetail
Footballguy
Isn't Decker a top 20 WR from here on out?
LawFitz
Footballguy
Hard to know who will develop a chemistry with Tebow. Decker is certainly in position to form a strong bond if he can earn the QB's trust and develop timing. There's bigger upside than top 20 PPG, but also serious downside depending on how the Tebow situation plays out. I envision some week-to-week volatility if Decker or any WR in this offense finishes top 20.
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LittlePhatty
Footballguy
D. Thomas - 10 targets. (but only 3 receptions - indicative of Tebow's accuracy?)
D. Fells - 4 targets.
E. Royal - 4 targets.
E. Decker - 3 targets.
Not a good sign for Decker in the dawn of the Tebow era.
I think I'm holding for a few weeks, but with very low expectations. Definitely not starting him.
How about you? Holding or dropping?
D. Fells - 4 targets.
E. Royal - 4 targets.
E. Decker - 3 targets.
Not a good sign for Decker in the dawn of the Tebow era.
I think I'm holding for a few weeks, but with very low expectations. Definitely not starting him.
How about you? Holding or dropping?
Dought Man
Footballguy
Tebow only has eyes for the big fella, Thomas. Seemed to really lock onto him...
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
One of those was a wide open deep pass that could have been a TD if Tebow hit him.I think it being Demaryius' first game back also had a big impact. They have to see how good he is. They don't have to see how good Decker is.Denver has to buy into Tebow being QB. I don't think you can read anything from this game since nothing happened til the last 3 mins.
ponchsox
Footballguy
Holding as a 4th WR but I doubt he sniffs my lineup for the ROS.
FavreCo
Footballguy
:X Decker was a sell high with Tebow lurking on the sidelines. Now he's a zero.
Khy
Footballguy
I'm very close to wanting to drop him this week... just not sure yet. Tebow had what like 7 attempts in that game up until like 8 minutes left? Then Fox realized he has no clue what he is doing and should just let Tebow make his own magic happen? If Tebow gets free reign of the offense and isn't forced to try and be a pocket passer I think Decker still has value. That said I'm probably dropping him this week simply because I know nobody in my league would pick him up after the past two weeks. So if he does have a good game this coming week I can easily snag him.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Well I think your assessment of Decker is a bit over the top, but I don't necessarily disagree that Decker's value has plummeted since Tebow has come on as the starting QB and Orton was benched.Having said that, it seems so strange that we all can agree that Tebow is a fantasy #1 QB, but in reality sucks as a thrower. How can a #1QB in fantasy exist around a team of garbage fantasy wideouts? What a paradox! Tebow is instantly startable, and yet makes everyone around him unstartable.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
I did find this interesting note from Rotoworld. Maybe there is some hope?
Redwes25
Footballguy
Tebow's value is all in the rushing yards and rushing TDs. The 8 extra points this week from Rushing made his week.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
I watched the highlights earlier. Horrible throw. I don't see the silver lining here though. It just seems like more evidence that Tebow won't be consistent enough to make Decker a dependable starter.
zamboni
Footballguy
Plus even if he hits Decker on that throw, it is the target differential vis-a-vis Thomas that is pretty alarming.
I guess it's because Tebow seems unlikely to have more than 15-18 completions in a given week (career-high is 16 at this point). With a couple RBs, a couple TEs and 3-4 WRs, you're only looking at an average of a couple catches for anyone in a given week. Even when Lloyd was maintaining his WR1 status last year, he still never caught more than 5 balls in a game from Tebow, which means someone's gonna need to average elite YPC (like Lloyd) and a TD every week or two to maintain any real WR2 value.
Before yesterday, I was thinking Decker would be ok, but not so, now. This makes 2 weeks in a row where Decker was open for a 50+yd TD and Tebow missed him badly.
Still, after 10 targets yesterday, you have to think the opposition is going to zero in on Demaryius Thomas...there's no way Tebow will be able to lock in on him like that every week....? I'm just not sure this Tebow situation is sustainable unless he locks in on a different WR every week, which basically makes everyone useless.
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Apple Jack
Footballguy
Thomas is BIG and his wingspan is going to help a little in making up for Tebow's accuracy issues. There aren't many backs who can beat him in a jump-ball. Any story this season of Tebow growing as a passer is going to have Thomas in a staring role. I have him on my bench in one league, and am considering dumping Torain for him in the other.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Hightower has an ACL tear. Dropping Torain for anyone right now on waivers is a poor move. You at least have trade bait if you are stacked at RB.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Talk about overreaction on Decker's prospects after Tebow's 1st game where nothing happened in the first 3.5 quarters. The disparity between his targets and Thomas' is surprising and worth looking at the next couple weeks, for sure, but that sounds more like an excuse than a reason for dropping Decker at this point. If Decker had 3/101/1 had he got the long TD, this thread would be totally different today.
I likely bench him in favor of Thomas next week, but Im far from dropping him.
I likely bench him in favor of Thomas next week, but Im far from dropping him.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
You mean, if his current QB could hit a completely wide open receiver....'Kenny Powers said:
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
So there's no chance he doesnt connect if Decker is open deep next week? Or is it that Tebow will hit Thomas when he's deep but not Decker?
Dawg Pound 69
Footballguy
I'm holding onto him in dynasty. As Tebow gets starter reps I think his accuracy will improve (it's not like it could get any worse). And I like having D Thomas back to draw the defense's top corner. Decker is talented enough to feast on most #2 corners. If Tebow doesn't improve as a passer, I don't expect him to be in Denver after this season. No sense selling Decker at a discount, you likely wouldn't get much for him now.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
If the current trend continues he'll hit both of them on fewer than 50% of attempts.
griff321
Footballguy
To be honest though now is the time to buy in dynasty. Either Tebow improves or he blows out and the Broncos draft his replacement. Either way this feels like the low water mark. We all know the talent is there, and he's not a "system guy" but now opportunity has to come again.
