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Errors in an email I received from a student who wants a job (1 Viewer)

You need to act professional and use perfect grammar.  Meanwhile I, the professional, will insult you by using poor grammar and do so in an unprofessional way.  

 
The issue isn't that the kid's email was ok, it wasn't.  The issue is that Chet's response didn't need to come straight from the book of douchery.  But hey, some dudes get off throwing their weight around whenever they can because, well I guess they get off on that type of ####.

Why be a decent, reasonable human being when you can be a snarky jackoff instead.

 
Several years ago some guy with much more money than sense bragged about buying an AMG Mercedes.  When he posted the pics and info, another more knowledgeable guy told him AMG didn't actually make special AMG Mercedes cars for that year and all he did was buy a Mercedes with a body kit.  Not quite the pizza math or :widestance: life lessons, but it shows money doesn't buy the most important things.

 
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Yesterday I got an email from a young car salesman I had spoken to on the phone a week ago, asking if I was still interested. I told him I bought elsewhere. He followed up 25 seconds later with an obvious template email asking if there is any way he could improve his service, etc. 

My my first reaction was to think "well, the first day we spoke, when you promised to email me that evening and yet didn't get back to me until three days later, it was at that moment I decided I probably wouldn't buy a car from you. It also didn't help that you used stupid sales pressure tactics to try and get me into the dealership and burn half a weekend day for me and my family when I told you I had no interest in that until you could confirm you have the car I want in inventory."  And since he was specifically asking, I thought about returning an email with these and other related criticisms. 

I instead decided life is too short and there is value in kindness, and that the kid was just trying to do his job probably the best way he knew how. So I let it go. 

See the difference?

 
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I understand anyone calling me out for being an ####### but I'd also bet that they've never worked in investment banking.  Errors like the ones I pointed out are more than enough to get your resume tossed without any explanation--at least I identified his errors albeit in an admittedly harsh way.  I will give you two other much more extreme examples of ways that people used to get their cover letters and resumes tossed without exception.  Saloman Brothers Inc spelled their name exactly that way.  Note, there's no period at the end of Inc and they were notorious for tossing any cover letters from people who included a period.  I never worked there so I can't confirm that story personally.  I did work at Goldman Sachs for about 10 years though.  The full name is Goldman, Sachs & Co. and which shortens to "Goldman Sachs".  People would often write the shortened form "Goldman, Sachs" which again, was enough to have their resumes tossed without explanation.

There are two main reasons for such harsh treatment of applicants.  The first and most important is that even entry level people are in a position to make decisions or carry out orders where making a mistake can cost the firm millions, get the firm sued or cost the firm a client.  So having someone who pays attention to detail is very important.  Earlier this year, my former assistant made an error that was caught almost immediately which cost my company almost $300k.  He wasn't fired for that mistake but he was for the next one.  The second reason is that it is exceptionally tough to get a job in my industry and therefore, we try to hire only the best of the best.  There are many qualified applicants and making an error like we see above is an easy way to eliminate a candidate.  Someone confusing your with you're is either not up to the caliber of applicant we hire or they're too sloppy to be considered.  Again, this was the first communication he'd ever made with me and it was riddled with errors.  I always proofread any communication I ever made with a prospective employer multiple times. 

 
chet said:
Apparently, some of you doubt that he was fishing for a job.  Here's his response:
Click to expand...
Don't doubt it at all even though it wasn't a certainty.

I also don't doubt you were a complete ####### in your response. And that is a certainty.

 
chet said:
Errors like the ones I pointed out are more than enough to get your resume tossed without any explanation--
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I'd say this is true for a lot of industries beyond investment banking - well worth proofreading your resume & cover letter at least 3-4x.

 
chet said:
I understand anyone calling me out for being an ####### but I'd also bet that they've never worked in investment banking.  Errors like the ones I pointed out are more than enough to get your resume tossed without any explanation--at least I identified his errors albeit in an admittedly harsh way.  I will give you two other much more extreme examples of ways that people used to get their cover letters and resumes tossed without exception.  Saloman Brothers Inc spelled their name exactly that way.  Note, there's no period at the end of Inc and they were notorious for tossing any cover letters from people who included a period.  I never worked there so I can't confirm that story personally.  I did work at Goldman Sachs for about 10 years though.  The full name is Goldman, Sachs & Co. and which shortens to "Goldman Sachs".  People would often write the shortened form "Goldman, Sachs" which again, was enough to have their resumes tossed without explanation.

There are two main reasons for such harsh treatment of applicants.  The first and most important is that even entry level people are in a position to make decisions or carry out orders where making a mistake can cost the firm millions, get the firm sued or cost the firm a client.  So having someone who pays attention to detail is very important.  Earlier this year, my former assistant made an error that was caught almost immediately which cost my company almost $300k.  He wasn't fired for that mistake but he was for the next one.  The second reason is that it is exceptionally tough to get a job in my industry and therefore, we try to hire only the best of the best.  There are many qualified applicants and making an error like we see above is an easy way to eliminate a candidate.  Someone confusing your with you're is either not up to the caliber of applicant we hire or they're too sloppy to be considered.  Again, this was the first communication he'd ever made with me and it was riddled with errors.  I always proofread any communication I ever made with a prospective employer multiple times. 
Click to expand...
Really?

 
Otis said:
Yesterday I got an email from a young car salesman I had spoken to on the phone a week ago, asking if I was still interested. I told him I bought elsewhere. He following up 25 seconds later with an obvious template email asking if there is any way he could improve his service, etc. 

My my first reaction was to think "well, the first day we spoke, when you promised to email me that evening and yet didn't get back to me until three days later, it was at that moment I decided I probably wouldn't buy a car from you. It also didn't help that you used stupid sales pressure tactics to try and get me into the dealership and burn half a weekend day for me and my family when I told you I had no interest in that until you could confirm you have the car I want in inventory."  And since he was specifically asking, I thought about returning an email with these and other related criticisms. 

I instead decided life is too short and there is value in kindness, and that the kid was just trying to do his job probably the best way he knew how. So I let it go. 

See the difference?
Click to expand...
I get your opinion but don't you think the car salesman would appreciate knowing what he did wrong?  I certainly would.  If I were a college kid trying to break into investment banking, I certainly wouldn't have liked receiving an email like the one I sent but I'd have preferred it over the "kind" act of not receiving anything.  At least this kid now knows what he did wrong and can address it.  

See the difference?

 
chet said:
I understand anyone calling me out for being an ####### but I'd also bet that they've never worked in investment banking.  Errors like the ones I pointed out are more than enough to get your resume tossed without any explanation--at least I identified his errors albeit in an admittedly harsh way.  I will give you two other much more extreme examples of ways that people used to get their cover letters and resumes tossed without exception.  Saloman Brothers Inc spelled their name exactly that way.  Note, there's no period at the end of Inc and they were notorious for tossing any cover letters from people who included a period.  I never worked there so I can't confirm that story personally.  I did work at Goldman Sachs for about 10 years though.  The full name is Goldman, Sachs & Co. and which shortens to "Goldman Sachs".  People would often write the shortened form "Goldman, Sachs" which again, was enough to have their resumes tossed without explanation.

There are two main reasons for such harsh treatment of applicants.  The first and most important is that even entry level people are in a position to make decisions or carry out orders where making a mistake can cost the firm millions, get the firm sued or cost the firm a client.  So having someone who pays attention to detail is very important.  Earlier this year, my former assistant made an error that was caught almost immediately which cost my company almost $300k.  He wasn't fired for that mistake but he was for the next one.  The second reason is that it is exceptionally tough to get a job in my industry and therefore, we try to hire only the best of the best.  There are many qualified applicants and making an error like we see above is an easy way to eliminate a candidate.  Someone confusing your with you're is either not up to the caliber of applicant we hire or they're too sloppy to be considered.  Again, this was the first communication he'd ever made with me and it was riddled with errors.  I always proofread any communication I ever made with a prospective employer multiple times. 
Click to expand...
I agree philosophically with this sort of screening for jobs that require an eye for detail.  The no-period-after-Inc thing is kind of extreme since I'd imagine your spell-checker is yelling at you for leaving it that way, but your-vs.-you're is really egregious and nobody should be making that mistake in any kind of professional correspondence.  

What people are saying though -- and it's perfectly in character for you that you're missing the point -- is that there was no special reason for you to be a #### about it.  Just delete his email and move on with your life.  

Edit: Or, if you want to pass along some career advice, you can do that without being a ####.  Unless the career advice you want to provide is "Investment banking is full of #####," in which case I salute you on your helpfulness.

 
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Hilts said:
I'll give the kid credit for owning his error and still hustling/asking despite getting crapped on. There are worse skills to hire. :shrug:
Click to expand...
He also showed restraint in calling out the grammatical errors in the response. Could have easily played the "hypocritical card". That's the sign of a team player and an employee that would be a solid member of the rank and file. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I agree philosophically with this sort of screening for jobs that require an eye for detail.  The no-period-after-Inc thing is kind of extreme since I'd imagine your spell-checker is yelling at you for leaving it that way, but your-vs.-you're is really egregious and nobody should be making that mistake in any kind of professional correspondence.  

What people are saying though -- and it's perfectly in character for you that you're missing the point -- is that there was no special reason for you to be a #### about it.  Just delete his email and move on with your life.
Click to expand...
I get the point and even address it in the post that you quoted and other posts.  I will, however, spell it out more clearly for you.  I thought about ignoring it.  I almost did ignore it.  In the end, I put myself in the kid's shoes and decided I'd want to know why my email wasn't getting a response from alumni of the school I attend.  Harsh?  Yes, but the kid will learn a lot more from my email than from anyone who ignored it and sent nothing.

 
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chet said:
Apparently, some of you doubt that he was fishing for a job.  Here's his response:
Click to expand...
Kid should have replied that it was better for you that he didn't get the job, because he was receiving advice from an online think tank that his proper course of action would have been to beg for the job, just to get it for a chance to sleep with your wife. 

 
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chet said:
I understand anyone calling me out for being an ####### but I'd also bet that they've never worked in investment banking.  Errors like the ones I pointed out are more than enough to get your resume tossed without any explanation--at least I identified his errors albeit in an admittedly harsh way.  I will give you two other much more extreme examples of ways that people used to get their cover letters and resumes tossed without exception.  Saloman Brothers Inc spelled their name exactly that way.  Note, there's no period at the end of Inc and they were notorious for tossing any cover letters from people who included a period.  I never worked there so I can't confirm that story personally.  I did work at Goldman Sachs for about 10 years though.  The full name is Goldman, Sachs & Co. and which shortens to "Goldman Sachs".  People would often write the shortened form "Goldman, Sachs" which again, was enough to have their resumes tossed without explanation.

There are two main reasons for such harsh treatment of applicants.  The first and most important is that even entry level people are in a position to make decisions or carry out orders where making a mistake can cost the firm millions, get the firm sued or cost the firm a client.  So having someone who pays attention to detail is very important.  Earlier this year, my former assistant made an error that was caught almost immediately which cost my company almost $300k.  He wasn't fired for that mistake but he was for the next one.  The second reason is that it is exceptionally tough to get a job in my industry and therefore, we try to hire only the best of the best.  There are many qualified applicants and making an error like we see above is an easy way to eliminate a candidate.  Someone confusing your with you're is either not up to the caliber of applicant we hire or they're too sloppy to be considered.  Again, this was the first communication he'd ever made with me and it was riddled with errors.  I always proofread any communication I ever made with a prospective employer multiple times. 
Click to expand...
Why not just send him this instead of what you sent. You're going out of your way to be a doosh in the email. Own it if that is your thing

 
chet said:
I get the point and even address it in the post that you quoted and other posts.  I will, however, spell it out more clearly for you.  I thought about ignoring it.  I almost did ignore it.  In the end, I put myself in the kid's shoes and decided I'd want to know why my I wasn't getting a response from alumni of the school I attended.  Harsh?  Yes, but the kid will learn a lot more from my email than from anyone who ignored it and sent nothing.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. There was more value in your response than simply ignoring it. For me, and it seems like a lot of others chiming in, we just don't see the added benefit of calling him out as harshly as you did. You say it's to prepare him for the industry, and perhaps you're right. It still came across as douchey. 

 
OMG--Shocking that it would be in the world of banking where spelling and grammar are valued more than morals.  I guess it's really important to be grammatically perfect when you are forging peoples information to create false accounts, or when you are major contributors in collapsing the economy in 2008 through a litany of morally questionable business practices.    C'mon man-- I personally know many successful investment bankers and none of them are 100% perfect in their spelling and grammar.  Don't make excuses for d-bag behavior. 

 
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Why is it that bankers are so concerned with grammar? I can see if he put the comma in the wrong place with numbers attached to it, but words. Who cares. 

 
chet said:
Below is an email I received today from a student at my alma mater: 

My response was short and to the point:

I showed both to my kids and emphasized the importance of avoiding these kinds of errors.
Click to expand...
I to agree that their is something not write about a college-educated student not understanding the difference between your, you're, and yore.

 
It's about attention to detail, and I agree with Chet there. It's also reaching out and "up" to somebody you've never met and asking for something. The only impression they are going to have of you is this written communication. There's no excuse for any errors at all. I'm sure that skill would be needed in any prospective job this kid wanted in Chet's network. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
OMG--Shocking that it would be in the world of banking where spelling and grammar are valued more than morals.  I guess it's really important to be grammatically perfect when you are forging peoples information to create false accounts, or when you are major contributors in collapsing the economy in 2008 through a litany of morally questionable business practices.    C'mon man-- I personally know many successful investment bankers and none of them are 100% perfect in their spelling and grammar.  Don't make excuses for d-bag behavior. 
Click to expand...
"We only hire the best of the best here at ######## and Sons.  So if you wish to rip off your fellow citizens and government, then you better know when to use a semicolon you ####### peasant"

 
Sconch said:
Here's all Chet had to do:

"I would absolutely like to chat with you and answer any questions you have about this business" etc etc etc

And then at the end

"Just a little advice.  There are a few grammar and spelling errors in your message.  In the future it would be to your benefit to proofread anything you send to future employers and/or people you wish to network with.  A little extra effort and attention to detail go a long way.  

Brat of luck,

Chet the Giant Gasbag"
Click to expand...
...... with whom you wish to network. 

 
It's odd that anybody coming out of college is this oblivious. I can't imagine anybody I graduated with doing it. No way. Which is why I still think this could be a fishing trip. Well, it's definitely a fishing trip regardless of whether the situation and email are fabrications.

 
AcerFC said:
Why is it that bankers are so concerned with grammar? I can see if he put the comma in the wrong place with numbers attached to it, but words. Who cares. 
Click to expand...
They're not concerned with grammar, they are concerned with how it looks. Nobody is going to trust their money to somebody who communicates like that kid and who so badly misreads the gravity of an exchange like that.

 
James Daulton said:
The issue isn't that the kid's email was ok, it wasn't.  The issue is that Chet's response didn't need to come straight from the book of douchery.  But hey, some dudes get off throwing their weight around whenever they can because, well I guess they get off on that type of ####.

Why be a decent, reasonable human being when you can be a snarky jackoff instead.
Click to expand...
WBADRHBWYCBASJI

It may never get as big as WWJD, but damn it, I like it.

 
avoiding injuries said:
It's about attention to detail, and I agree with Chet there. It's also reaching out and "up" to somebody you've never met and asking for something. The only impression they are going to have of you is this written communication. There's no excuse for any errors at all. I'm sure that skill would be needed in any prospective job this kid wanted in Chet's network. 
Click to expand...
It can definitely be read as insulting. A kid most likely with relatively insignificant responsibilities and demands on his time couldn't be bothered to take 20 seconds to proof the email, but he expects a stranger to take time out of his busy schedule to help him get his career started? That's a hot mess. But I see it as obliviousness more than an insult.

 
Apple Jack said:
It's odd that anybody coming out of college is this oblivious. I can't imagine anybody I graduated with doing it. No way. Which is why I still think this could be a fishing trip. Well, it's definitely a fishing trip regardless of whether the situation and email are fabrications.
Click to expand...
You can't imagine nobody you graduated with would make a grammatical error in an email???  In the age of text messaging and twitter, grammatical errors are more common than ever as communication has become fast, brief and frequent.  

 
I'm in a similar business at a large financial services company and confirm 100% that attention to detail is an absolute prerequisite to success in our analyst program.  They are asked to do a ton of fairly administrative work, but one wrong number can lead to a world of pain for all involved.  

Eventually the most successful among the junior staff get promoted to positions with signing authority that will legally bind our organization - and lack of attention to detail when reviewing those contracts can have a lot more serious consequences.  

Since this sort of detail orientation tends to be innate, it's better to figure this out early on, when stakes are low - or, even better, before someone is hired.

 
jon_mx said:
You can't imagine nobody you graduated with would make a grammatical error in an email???  In the age of text messaging and twitter, grammatical errors are more common than ever as communication has become fast, brief and frequent.  
Click to expand...
I see your attention to detail ain't so good either.

It's not just the grammatical errors (plural). It's that he also did not bother to proofread it. Nobody coming out of a four year school should be sending a formal email like that. And they should not be misreading that an unsolicited email of this nature to chet shouldn't be treated as formal. So it's an error in judgment on top of the obvious lack of innate first pass attention to detail.

chet was definitely a #### and probably enjoyed it. But the business he's trying to get into is largely made up of #####. It's a taste of what's to come. That said, I would have definitely handled it differently. I probably would have just had my admin respond with a thanks for reaching out but it's not a good time. Good luck. Then have them throw a parenthetical heads up about cleaning it up.

 
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On the one hand, I can see why some think chet was a bit too harsh in his response.

On the other hand, perhaps chet taking the guy to task will make him attentive to future details and help him when inquiring about other jobs.  If no one tells you what you're doing is wrong, how will you ever know? 

 
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Script:

1. Act like a doosh

2. Post details of your actions in FFA

3. Defend your actions with pride *

Rinse repeat

* Optional note: Claim end of modern civilization

 
we're interviewing for a fairly high profile position in the department here.  talking people with >10 years experience, direct CEO exposure.  received 4 resumes last week, all of which contained typos.  it's an epidemic bros.  in 20 years the concept 'typo' won't even be a thing and you will be considered weird if you write in complete sentences.

 
Peyton Marino said:
we're interviewing for a fairly high profile position in the department here.  talking people with >10 years experience, direct CEO exposure.  received 4 resumes last week, all of which contained typos.  it's an epidemic bros.  in 20 years the concept 'typo' won't even be a thing and you will be considered weird if you write in complete sentences.
Click to expand...
Why do you hate capitalization?

 
avoiding injuries said:
I agree with this. There was more value in your response than simply ignoring it. For me, and it seems like a lot of others chiming in, we just don't see the added benefit of calling him out as harshly as you did. You say it's to prepare him for the industry, and perhaps you're right. It still came across as douchey. 
Click to expand...
It's a douchey industry.  :shrug:

 
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