Nigel Tufnel
Footballguy
What did the cop have to gain by lying? Nothing. What did he have to lose by lying? Everything.
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- Thread starter SteelerMurf
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Billy Ball Thorton
Footballguy
Wrong!!!
Nigel Tufnel
Footballguy
Very solid, well-thought out retort. You've convinced me.
Doug B
Footballguy
You and I disagree on this one point -- I think his return to the practice was a lot less meaningful than you do. I also believe he could have been brought back sufficient health rather rapidly once the drugs were removed from his digestive tract.
Sheriff66
Footballguy
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What's the punishment, life in prison?
This isn't an attempt to pick on you, since it's a very common mistake (one that I've made several times before), I just think it's funny when people mix up "attempt suicide" and "commit suicide" (for example: "my brother committed suicide three times when he was a teenager"). It ranks right up there with misuse of the word "literally" on the unintentional comedy scale.So... wait, journalism and law are now essentially the same thing? And here I thought they were completely unrelated fields. Good to know that all journalists really wish they were lawyers. Because, you know, all those journalists are morally bankrupt and should have gone all out and become lawyers, shining models of civic responsibility. Because nobody is more honest or less condescending than a lawyer.
I always roll my eyes whenever anyone pulls that "innocent until proven guilty" bull.First off, this isn't a case of innocence or guilt. Terrell Owens has committed no crime. He's not GUILTY of anything.
Second, "Innocent until proven guilty" describes the operations of a court of law. It does not describe the court of public opinion. If I see a guy shoot my brother 15 times, should I assume that he's really innocent until a jury of my peers tells me that he really DID kill my brother after all? Or to go far less sensationalistic, if a woman finds lipstick on her husband's collar and motel room receipts in his pockets, does she have to assume that he's not really cheating on her until she can PROVE it beyond a reasonable doubt? Of course not- I have the right to form whatever opinion I want about whatever issues I want.
The American legal system is not allowed to make assumptions of guilt. I am. If I want to believe that Terrell Owens attempted suicide, then I can feel free to believe that Terrell Owens attempted suicide- just like Terrell Owens believes that Jeff Garcia is gay (speaking of making assumptions without any proof).
That's another thing. As far as I'm concerned, Terrell Owens doesn't get to whine about how he's being slandered. He's slandered enough people that I am 100% unsympathetic if someone else is sullying his "good name".
Welcome to TO land, where nothing is ever his fault! Is it espn, dpd, or anyone elses fault that paramedics were called via 911 to help someone who either took to many meds or had a drug interaction? He probably tried to drown his sorrows with a few extra pain pills, and passed out. His publicist panicked and called 911 (because a person of his "statue" should be able to handle a few extra pills!) This is typical TO. He is not happy unless he is in the spot light. If he did try to kill himself (I don't believe ), he has more problems than we realize. If he didn't, then was this a publicity stunt? Was he jealous that Chris Sims was getting more press for his "heroic" efforts against Carolina? Being from Philly, all I can say is....welcome to our nightmare!...Now he's all yours Dallas...enjoy!
Here's my take:
1. TO's financee broke off the engagement a day or two before the incident
2. TO was not allowed to see his kid on his 7th birthday a day or two before the incident
3. TO has not played well this season, seems to always be injured, and may have lost a step
4. TO is not well regarded by the general public and he knows it
5. The police report is likely unbiased
6. When you are asked a question in a drugged state you are more likely to give a true answer
7. Why would you take all of the pills out of a bottle and put them in a drawer?
8. TO has every reason to lie... count 'em, 25 million reasons
9. The publicist should know the fallout for calling 911 and would not do it unless she was truely concerned for his life and therefore likely not a misunderstanding or mistake
10. The publicist has every reason to lie... lost client/paycheck/friend
11. TO's lawyers have descended upon the police department and the hospital threatening lawsuits against anybody releasing information regarding this incident
12. TO's statement about the interaction between supplements and the pain killers causing his "black-out" is weak at best and as yet unsubstantiated by a medical professional. To my knowledge the supplement was not specified.
you do the math.
1. TO's financee broke off the engagement a day or two before the incident
2. TO was not allowed to see his kid on his 7th birthday a day or two before the incident
3. TO has not played well this season, seems to always be injured, and may have lost a step
4. TO is not well regarded by the general public and he knows it
5. The police report is likely unbiased
6. When you are asked a question in a drugged state you are more likely to give a true answer
7. Why would you take all of the pills out of a bottle and put them in a drawer?
8. TO has every reason to lie... count 'em, 25 million reasons
9. The publicist should know the fallout for calling 911 and would not do it unless she was truely concerned for his life and therefore likely not a misunderstanding or mistake
10. The publicist has every reason to lie... lost client/paycheck/friend
11. TO's lawyers have descended upon the police department and the hospital threatening lawsuits against anybody releasing information regarding this incident
12. TO's statement about the interaction between supplements and the pain killers causing his "black-out" is weak at best and as yet unsubstantiated by a medical professional. To my knowledge the supplement was not specified.
you do the math.
Nigel Tufnel
Footballguy
I agree with everything except 3.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
It sounds like a routine police report where routine questions are routinely asked at the scene of a routine 911 incident. Using the police report as a basis for further investigation is a standard reporting practice.What is decidedly not routine was the wave of speculation and intensity of coverage that followed. I kept checking in to Sports Center last night and at 6:45 they were still talking about this situation, to the extent that they felt compelled to run old home movies of TO's high school days. What's that all about?
brednbuddah
Footballguy
Are you kidding? Steven A. yesterday said outright that TO attempted suicide, had his stomach pumped, ate 35+ pills. not allegedly. not reportedly. Stated as fact and this was all prior to the 2:30 press conference.I'm not a big TO fan, I'm not a Cowboys fan, but that's just bad journalism. TOs no angel, but he atleast deserves fair and honest reporting.Nigel Tufnel said:
Nigel Tufnel
Footballguy
Then I take back my statement. Reporting it as fact is irresponsible. All he had to do is stick the word "allegedly" in there a few times and he would have been fine.
What did you expect? It's Steven A. for gods sake!
Todem
Footballguy
And that is what has me ticked. I have tuned out for the most part, but you just can't escape the coverage when your trying to watch the NFL network or ESPN for things other than TO.roadkill1292 said:
I mis-stated the thing about the police report, I know they are routine and was not trying to suggest that it was falsified in any way. I just question the state of TO when the questions were asked. Because I do not believe he was trying to take his life and was having a bad episode of mixing medication. If someone wants to kill themselves they can do it. So I question the use of a police report as a basis of absolute fact when all the circimstances surrounding the statements are not really known and muddy at best.
Anyway my beef is with the out of control media frenzy/ yellow journalisim that has overtaken this country.
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ESPN has always been as much about personality as it is sports news and events.
But the personality (Kornheiser, Stephen A., Berman et al.) have overtaken the content to such an extent that you can't count on it. It's why TO or Chad Johnson gets the play they do on that network. Bold and brash, they make for great soundbites and clips. Remember when the majority of basketball highlights were just Jordan dunking? The whole friggin network functions very much like that. Anything that's easy to blurb gets the run - and it's hurt their credibility IMO because facts get in the way of that.
And these days if they do the research, they aren;t the first to report it. Someone else does. And how can you be the World Leader in Sports if you don't get news first? Better to be first than right. Better to have a loud opinion than a factual one.
It's almost TalkradioTV. Get loud, get noticed.
But the personality (Kornheiser, Stephen A., Berman et al.) have overtaken the content to such an extent that you can't count on it. It's why TO or Chad Johnson gets the play they do on that network. Bold and brash, they make for great soundbites and clips. Remember when the majority of basketball highlights were just Jordan dunking? The whole friggin network functions very much like that. Anything that's easy to blurb gets the run - and it's hurt their credibility IMO because facts get in the way of that.
And these days if they do the research, they aren;t the first to report it. Someone else does. And how can you be the World Leader in Sports if you don't get news first? Better to be first than right. Better to have a loud opinion than a factual one.
It's almost TalkradioTV. Get loud, get noticed.
Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya
Footballguy
"E"ntertainment and "S"ports "P"rogramming "N"etwork.
'Nuff said.
Move along now....nothing more to see here....
'Nuff said.
Move along now....nothing more to see here....
Doug B
Footballguy
Yes ... this is part of the puzzle. Me and Sheriff batted this around at the bottom of page 1.
Fact - TO was asked if he was trying to harm himself and he answered in the affirmative. Not even TO has denied answering in the affirmative, though he does claim to not remember answering in that way.
Whether you believe he was answering truthfully or not (i.e. he was incoherent) is a personal judgment based on other observable evidence or conjecture.
Another point - people do not swear to tell the truth before they go on camera. There is no legal (or ethical) requirement to tell the truth in a press conference. Thus, the statements by TO and his publicist are not necessarily truth (nor necessarily lies).
Lastly, medical privacy will likely prevent the "truth" about his medical procedures from being divulged. This, I think, is the main reason the police were specific that the incident is a medical, not police matter.
Whether you believe he was answering truthfully or not (i.e. he was incoherent) is a personal judgment based on other observable evidence or conjecture.
Another point - people do not swear to tell the truth before they go on camera. There is no legal (or ethical) requirement to tell the truth in a press conference. Thus, the statements by TO and his publicist are not necessarily truth (nor necessarily lies).
Lastly, medical privacy will likely prevent the "truth" about his medical procedures from being divulged. This, I think, is the main reason the police were specific that the incident is a medical, not police matter.
Sheriff66
Footballguy
It was a "cry for help", like most suicide attempts are, the people that REALLY want to die usually get the job done. As much as TO say he "loves me some me", I think deep down inside he hates himself.
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I don't see what the big deal is...having a copy of a police report is enough IMO. I don't fault the media for running with it at all. They haven't been proven wrong yet. If the 911 call is her saying that her friend is having a reaction to pain pills and supplements, then I'll believe. I have a feeling it's her freaking out because he was depressed. I'm sure he was giving her his sob story and popped a couple extra pills to crash and she over-reacted....
TO and his "publicist" (ie, F-buddy) are lying their asses off IMO...
TO and his "publicist" (ie, F-buddy) are lying their asses off IMO...
Family Matters
Footballguy
Good call on this. We may disagree on the Bengals and Steelers, but we are eye to eye on this. Great post!SteelerMurf said:
Blood Farmer
Footballguy
I find this incredibly annoying. Most sports shows appeal to the lowest common denominator. "Guy talk" and gossip. I want to hear game breakdowns. I love the film breakdown shows but there are so few of them. Let the masses have their soap operas. Just give me one 24hr "sports" show, please! It is so annoying that we have all of these channels and sports shows but so few of them actually talk about the things that interest me.SteelerMurf said:
Doug B
Footballguy
SteelerMurf ... when T.O. put himself on display at the midfield of Texas Stadium in 2000, he very much created this atmosphere. He's done many things afterward to reinforce it: the Sharpie incident, the Baltimore/Philadelphia mess, publicly dogging Garcia & McNabb, his downward spiral in Philly, Drew Rosenhaus and the front-lawn workout, etc.If, early on in the game, he handles himself with class, no atmosphere of sensationalism is created. He can ask Marvin Harrison and Isaac Bruce all about it.
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
Police group upset with T.O.'s publicist
Story Tools:
Associated Press
Posted: 2 hours ago
DALLAS (AP) - The president of the Dallas Police Association demanded Thursday that Terrell Owens and his publicist apologize for statements disputing portions of a police report related to the star receiver's trip to a hospital emergency room.
"These officers, contrary to what Mr. T.O. Owens and his publicist Miss Etheredge alluded to or insinuated or whatever, those officers out there did the job they were supposed to do and did a good job of it," said Senior Cpl. Glenn White, who leads the largest police employee group in the Dallas department with more than 3,500 active and retired members. "We police officers don't go out to these calls and make stuff up."
Owens spent Tuesday night in the hospital after what he later called a big misunderstanding, saying he became groggy after mixing painkillers with supplements. The police report, later redacted in part, referenced an attempted suicide.
Owens' publicist who made the 911 call, Kim Etheredge, said Wednesday that entries in the police report were inaccurate. She said she did not say he was depressed and "did not take anything out of his mouth," as the report said.
Owens said he could not remember what he said to officers.
Etheredge couldn't be reached Thursday because her phone mailbox was full, and she didn't immediately respond to an e-mail seeking comment.
Dallas police officials have declined to comment and calls to Police Chief David Kunkle's office weren't returned Thursday. On Wednesday, police released a heavily-edited version of the police report but declined to discuss it further because of privacy concerns.
"It's a shame that the department doesn't stand up for the officers and say they did everything right," White said. "They haven't, and that's my biggest gripe now."
Story Tools:
Associated Press
Posted: 2 hours ago
DALLAS (AP) - The president of the Dallas Police Association demanded Thursday that Terrell Owens and his publicist apologize for statements disputing portions of a police report related to the star receiver's trip to a hospital emergency room.
"These officers, contrary to what Mr. T.O. Owens and his publicist Miss Etheredge alluded to or insinuated or whatever, those officers out there did the job they were supposed to do and did a good job of it," said Senior Cpl. Glenn White, who leads the largest police employee group in the Dallas department with more than 3,500 active and retired members. "We police officers don't go out to these calls and make stuff up."
Owens spent Tuesday night in the hospital after what he later called a big misunderstanding, saying he became groggy after mixing painkillers with supplements. The police report, later redacted in part, referenced an attempted suicide.
Owens' publicist who made the 911 call, Kim Etheredge, said Wednesday that entries in the police report were inaccurate. She said she did not say he was depressed and "did not take anything out of his mouth," as the report said.
Owens said he could not remember what he said to officers.
Etheredge couldn't be reached Thursday because her phone mailbox was full, and she didn't immediately respond to an e-mail seeking comment.
Dallas police officials have declined to comment and calls to Police Chief David Kunkle's office weren't returned Thursday. On Wednesday, police released a heavily-edited version of the police report but declined to discuss it further because of privacy concerns.
"It's a shame that the department doesn't stand up for the officers and say they did everything right," White said. "They haven't, and that's my biggest gripe now."
Bankerguy
Footballguy
911 tape: 'A guy took some pills'
02:16 PM CDT on Thursday, September 28, 2006
By REBECCA LOPEZ / WFAA-TV
A publicist for Dallas Cowboys receiver Terrell Owens sounded excited and nervous during a 911 emergency call she placed from Owens' Dallas residence Tuesday night, WFAA-TV (Channel 8) reported Thursday afternoon.
According to a source who has heard the recording, Kim Etheredge told dispatchers she needed an ambulance right away. When a dispatcher asked about the problem, she reportedly said, "a guy took some pills," but did not identify Owens by name.
The incident was characterized in a police report obtained by WFAA-TV as a suicide attempt, and a source said it was dispatched as a "signal 34," which alerts officers to an attempted suicide.
Owens spent the night at Baylor University Medical Center and was released Wednesday morning.
At a news conference Wednesday afternoon, Owens flatly denied that he attempted to take his own life.
The source told WFAA-TV that on the 911 recording, about one minute long, Etheredge called for an ambulance and asked dispatchers what to do. She did not mention the word "suicide" during the call, the source said.
Dallas Fire-Rescue initially declined to release the tape of the 911 call, deferring to police, who requested that it not be made public Wednesday. Dallas police commanders, however, approved the tape's release late Wednesday, but it was unclear when the fire department would send out copies.
Owens, who broke his hand in a Sept. 17 game with the Redskins, was practicing with the Cowboys on Thursday morning. It is not yet clear whether he will play in Sunday's game at Tennessee.
"I've listened to all this stuff, and the situation now is that I have to now — as a coach — rely on other people to keep me informed as to really what's going on," head coach Bill Parcells told reporters Thursday afternoon. "I can't form my own independent opinions other than those involving, 'Is his hand functional and does he look like he can play on Sunday?'"
Parcells said he had a "brief conversation" with Owens Thursday morning. He said he did not feel the team has been distracted by the events of the past 24 hours.
Parcells said he didn't learn about the incident that sent Owens to the hospital until after he got to work on Wednesday morning.
"I was sleeping when all this happened," he said. "Maybe they didn't want to wake me up."
Dallas Morning News staff writer Todd Archer contributed to this story
02:16 PM CDT on Thursday, September 28, 2006
By REBECCA LOPEZ / WFAA-TV
A publicist for Dallas Cowboys receiver Terrell Owens sounded excited and nervous during a 911 emergency call she placed from Owens' Dallas residence Tuesday night, WFAA-TV (Channel 8) reported Thursday afternoon.
According to a source who has heard the recording, Kim Etheredge told dispatchers she needed an ambulance right away. When a dispatcher asked about the problem, she reportedly said, "a guy took some pills," but did not identify Owens by name.
The incident was characterized in a police report obtained by WFAA-TV as a suicide attempt, and a source said it was dispatched as a "signal 34," which alerts officers to an attempted suicide.
Owens spent the night at Baylor University Medical Center and was released Wednesday morning.
At a news conference Wednesday afternoon, Owens flatly denied that he attempted to take his own life.
The source told WFAA-TV that on the 911 recording, about one minute long, Etheredge called for an ambulance and asked dispatchers what to do. She did not mention the word "suicide" during the call, the source said.
Dallas Fire-Rescue initially declined to release the tape of the 911 call, deferring to police, who requested that it not be made public Wednesday. Dallas police commanders, however, approved the tape's release late Wednesday, but it was unclear when the fire department would send out copies.
Owens, who broke his hand in a Sept. 17 game with the Redskins, was practicing with the Cowboys on Thursday morning. It is not yet clear whether he will play in Sunday's game at Tennessee.
"I've listened to all this stuff, and the situation now is that I have to now — as a coach — rely on other people to keep me informed as to really what's going on," head coach Bill Parcells told reporters Thursday afternoon. "I can't form my own independent opinions other than those involving, 'Is his hand functional and does he look like he can play on Sunday?'"
Parcells said he had a "brief conversation" with Owens Thursday morning. He said he did not feel the team has been distracted by the events of the past 24 hours.
Parcells said he didn't learn about the incident that sent Owens to the hospital until after he got to work on Wednesday morning.
"I was sleeping when all this happened," he said. "Maybe they didn't want to wake me up."
Dallas Morning News staff writer Todd Archer contributed to this story
Phurfur
Footballguy
The original TO report was OK. After he was released from the hospital it was obvious he didn't try to commit suicide. At this point they should have changed their story to reflect the fact that people who try to kill themselves aren't released from the hospital immediately.. They choose to run with the suicide story for hours after. This is where they lost their credibility.
Sheriff66
Footballguy
How was this obvious ?
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Doug B
Footballguy
Again ... I think T.O. is the kind of person in the right kind of situation to have the rules bent for them.
Phurfur
Footballguy
People who attemp suicide are never immediately released from the hospital. They have to go through the whole nine yards of of testing, phyco examining, counseling, etc. They don't just release them to go try again, they have to try and cure them.
Sheriff66
Footballguy
Most people that attempt to off themselves are not very famous people like T.O., they are not multi- millionaires with high priced lawyers waiting to sue the crap out of anyone that opens their trap, and they are not employed by the beloved Dallas Cowboys who ensured the hospital and the authorities that a team of doctors they pay for will keep there eyes on TO if they keep this all hush-hush.
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GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
Mort was on Sean Salisbury's local yakfest (and I do mean YAKfest), and he said at 9:30AM yesterday that he did not believe that TO attempted to commit suicide. He thought it was some type of a misunderstanding.So he must have changed his tune between yesterday morning and when you heard him on the Colin CowTurd Show.SteelerMurf said:
FALSEIt's not a law in TX like it is in some states...
I disagree, because there is nothing a hospital can do to hold a patient. Certainly they try and convince people to stay or seek help, but patients have the freedom to decline treatment or leave at any time. It happens all the time.But even if you were correct, who says it wasn't the team physician, or another medical professional, that signed TO out? No one says he needs to remain in the hospital for counselling, and why do you think the existence of a counselor would be made public? Do you really think TO or his publicist have to tell the truth to the press?
Phurfur
Footballguy
Even if it is not law, the liability of releasing a suicidal person is to great for a hodpital to risk it, especially in a high profile case like this.
Phurfur
Footballguy
People are held against their will if it is determined they are a danger to themselves or others.
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Doug B
Footballguy
This is something I thought of, too ... that T.O. may simply have been turned over to the care of the team physician. This would absolve the Baylor Medical Center staff in the case of a worst-case scenario.Also, the Cowboys were one of the first teams to hire a sports psychologist/psychiatrist, back in the Jimmy Johnson era. If the Cowboys still have one on staff, this person would be able to perform an assesment on the downlow.
Sheriff66
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
Probably won't shed much light. See the article in Bankerguy's post above:
Then again ... she conceivably could have conveyed "suicide" without saying the word herself.
Sheriff66
Footballguy
You will hear it in the urgency of her voice on the tape how serious she thinks the situation is...Probably won't shed much light. See the article in Bankerguy's post above:Then again ... she conceivably could have conveyed "suicide" without saying the word herself.
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