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ESPN's 30 for 30- Buffalo Bills episode premieres 12/12 (2 Viewers)

Dentist said:
Raider Nation said:
belljr said:
For anyone I think this is the 2001 hbo documentary

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=huokfPgsZok
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You can't even equate this to any upset we've ever seen. Not Jets/Colts. Not even Douglas/Tyson. That Russian team would have won the Stanley Cup every year. The Russian coach arrogantly pulling Tretiak was a killer.

Fun facts from Wiki:

- In the four Olympics prior to 1980, Soviet teams had gone 27–1–1 and outscored the opposition 175–44.

- In head-to-head match-ups against the United States, the cumulative score over that period was 28–7.

- In exhibitions that year, Soviet club teams went 5–3–1 against NHL teams, and a year earlier the Soviet national team had routed the NHL All-Stars 6–0 to win the Challenge Cup.

- In the last exhibition game against the Soviets at Madison Square Garden on February 9, 1980, the Soviets beat the U.S. 10–3.

This was just a once-in-a-lifetime fluke thing.
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Effing one-outers.

Further proof that the result on the field doesn't always tell you who the better team really is.

And why it's completely stupid to not have a best of 7 system set up.

As an aside though, the NHL has a best of 7 system and sometimes that doesn't work... i don't follow hockey that closely, but somehow it seems that sports where it is incredibly difficult to score tend to have issues with variance more so than say the NBA where scoring happens regularly.

I think when you put teams in a position where they are allowed to replicate their skill over and over again, you find out who has more of that skill. Scoring a goal in soccer or hockey almost seems "fluke-ish" so it's possible for a team to actually outplay the other team by a wide margin, yet still lose 1-0 or 2-1 or something.

Scoring in the NBA happens early and often so by the time a 7 game set has completed there have been hundreds of shots making the odds of a gargantuan upset fairly unlikely in lieu of some type of injury situation.

This is why the NBA champion to me (despite the fact that I don't give a crap about the sport) is by far the most accurate representation of how a playoff team can produce the best team as its champion the most frequently whereas MLB, NHL, any sport with 1 off brackets (NFL, NCAA Men's), produce a tournament champion that is frequently completely detached from who the best team is.
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Yeah, um, I don't think any one is arguing that the better team one. That's the whole Miracle on Ice part.

Great moments... are born from great opportunity. And that's what you have here, tonight, boys. That's what you've earned here tonight. One game. If we played 'em ten times, they might win nine. But not this game. Not tonight. Tonight, we skate with them. Tonight, we stay with them. And we shut them down because we can! Tonight, WE are the greatest hockey team in the world. You were born to be hockey players. Every one of you. And you were meant to be here tonight. This is your time. Their time is done. It's over. I'm sick and tired of hearing about what a great hockey team the Soviets have. Screw 'em. This is your time.
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KingPrawn said:
Great moments... are born from great opportunity. And that's what you have here, tonight, boys. That's what you've earned here tonight. One game. If we played 'em ten times, they might win nine. But not this game. Not tonight. Tonight, we skate with them. Tonight, we stay with them. And we shut them down because we can! Tonight, WE are the greatest hockey team in the world. You were born to be hockey players. Every one of you. And you were meant to be here tonight. This is your time. Their time is done. It's over. I'm sick and tired of hearing about what a great hockey team the Soviets have. Screw 'em. This is your time.
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Herb! :wub:

 
General Tso said:
Bruce Dickinson said:
General Tso said:
ILUVBEER99 said:
General Tso said:
Just watched it. Easily one of the best 30 for 30's ever made. Went a little long, but I can see how the producers wanted to follow it all the way through to Fetisov breaking into the NHL. Glad they focused on the beginnings of hockey in the USSR with Tarasov. That right there was worth the price of admission. Talk about a great Coach... I can't think of anyone comparable in any US sport, past or present. I look forward to reading and learning more about this guy.

I was a little disappointed with the Russian players' accounts of the game after 35 years. Not sure if it was edited that way on purpose, but there weren't a lot of positive comments praising the Americans for having the game of their lives. To a man they seemed to chalk it up to good fortune with not much else to say. But as I'm watching the game It's completely apparent to me just how hard the Americans played, and how ntensely focused they were. And Craig was an amazing goalie that night. A few of the Russians gave a few props here and there (begrudgingly), but for the most part it came off as sour grapes to me.
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They gave them props. One guy said the American team was completely different than the one they played earlier and that in the 2nd period realized the Americans were playing faster than them.
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Yeah, those were the the props I was referring to. But there was a lot of other talk of luck and excuse making (bad coaching, Russian goalie getting pulled, out partying the night before...) Seemed like a great opportunity, after 35 years of historical context on what an amazing accomplishment it was for the American kids, to be a little more gracious.
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One USA goal was a buzzer-beater off a deflection intended to run out the clock.Another happened right off a pass that somehow slipped between the boot and blade of a CCCP defenseman's skate.

CCCP had a shot late in the third that beat Craig but caught just enough of the post to not go in the net.

CCCP outshot USA 39-16 in the game.

Talk of luck is not totally unwarranted in this situation.
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We have this debate weekly in here. Whether it be about the Patriots/Seahawks, Packers/Seahawks... Not gonna argue it anymore. Please accept that I was born in a ####ed up crazy environment where my looney parents raised me to accept the outcome of a game, win or lose, and tip your cap to the victor.
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Not an either/or situation.
 
Terrific episode.

Heart warming, heart breaking, wonderful story.

Never was a huge follower of hockey but could some of those Russian players been "better" than Gretzky had they been in the NHL their whole career? Mind boggling to think so, no?

 
It's not luck -- it's randomness.

They play that game 100 times and the Soviets probably win 95 of them. But the 1 in 20 hit that night. The rest of it is just stories we tell ourselves to make sense of randomness.

 
Watched this yet again this morning. A good bit of it is really about Fetisov battling the Soviet machine. Getting called into the Kremlin and being told by the 2nd most powerful man in the country, screaming, "I will destroy you!" that takes huge guts. And he goes on to win the Cup. It's beautiful.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Watched this yet again this morning. A good bit of it is really about Fetisov battling the Soviet machine. Getting called into the Kremlin and being told by the 2nd most powerful man in the country, screaming, "I will destroy you!" that takes huge guts. And he goes on to win the Cup. It's beautiful.
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Just caught the last part of this. The Fetisov story is absolutely enthralling. Fetisov and Larionov circling the ice together with the Cup... seeing the Cup in Moscow. Just wow.

 
Sunday at 9pm

Director Roy Karpf, through interviews with former players and rivals as well as Laettner himself, explores why this former Duke star was - and still is - so disliked.
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Oh, I dunno... maybe because he was a dirty, preppy queer?

 
So I had the opportunity to see "I Hate Christian Laettner" pre-release. I am thankful for this.

Don't want to post any big spoilers, but a few things about the documentary and the story behind it.

This was not an outside pitch from a director hoping to tell a story. It was an inside job. Christian Laettner winning the Grantland Most Hated College Basketball Player tournament caught the staff and its editor-in-chief by surprise; they didn't think the hatred for Laettner was still that strong. So the decision was made to do a 30 For 30 documentary about Christian Laettner and why the hatred for him endures. Produced and narrated by Rob Lowe, a big Duke basketball fan who started rooting for the team because he was a fan of Laettner.

And yes, this doc is about Laettner. It's about Duke, of course, but it's not really about why fans sports-hate Duke. It's specifically about why fans sports-hate Laettner.

The structure isn't chronological. It takes five hate-worthy attributes about Christian Laettner and investigates each of them: he's privileged, he's white, he's a bully, he's a great player, and he's pretty.

Given that Laettner had no shortage of enemies, even no shortage of incidents among his own teammates, it wasn't hard finding people to go on record talking about why Christian Laettner sucks. So you will be pleased with the breadth of characters.

Since we recently passed the 20-year anniversaries of Duke's titles with Laettner and his most famous game - the 1992 regional final against Kentucky - there's been a lot of recent material covering similar ground. Woj's book about the Duke/UK game had interviews with all the principals and had flashbacks to events leading up to the game. Grant Hill's documentary about the Duke title teams got the players to go on record about the internal strife in the locker room, especially the beef between Laettner and Hurley. So the focus on Laettner hate and not trying to tell the story in chronological order helps separate this doc a bit.

The biggest surprise for me in this doc was Laettner himself. He was candid. He was thoughtful. He was... charming? Well, that may be too strong a word, but I respected his approach and how he comes off in the doc.

This is not the best doc in the 30 For 30 series. It's not even the best 30 For 30 about ACC basketball. But it is a good watch about a compelling figure.

 
I hate the fact that I should have been there to see "the shot" but left the day before because UMass got eliminated by Kentucky in the Sweet 16. Drove back home, and a co-worker asked if I still had my pass. He took it and was there to see it while I watched at work on a 13-inch B/W. :wall:

 
He & Hurley were a double-barreled shotgun blast of "hate the white Duke guys".

Laettner was also one of the best college players I've seen.

####### punk.

 
Dickie Dunn said:
I hate the fact that I should have been there to see "the shot" but left the day before because UMass got eliminated by Kentucky in the Sweet 16. Drove back home, and a co-worker asked if I still had my pass. He took it and was there to see it while I watched at work on a 13-inch B/W. :wall:
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Oops

 
Dickie Dunn said:
I hate the fact that I should have been there to see "the shot" but left the day before because UMass got eliminated by Kentucky in the Sweet 16. Drove back home, and a co-worker asked if I still had my pass. He took it and was there to see it while I watched at work on a 13-inch B/W. :wall:
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Did you have to go see about a girl?

 
Holy crap the comparison of Johnny from Karate Kid to Laettner was so dead on :D

Should not be a surprise that the bully was roughed around pretty bad from his bigger brother.

Damn they are bringing up the gay allegations with Brian Davis :shock:

Homosexual and fa**ot chant in the LSU. jesus imagine that in 2015

 
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Good doc. Laettner's shot against Kentucky was one of the most revolting sports memories I have, and I wasn't even huge basketball fan.

What I kept thinking during that doc was it's a bummer for fans that players will never develop personalities and fan bases like that ever again. Laettner played against Alonzo Mourning as a frosh, played those UNLV teams, and the Fab Five and Shaq later. Amazing time for college hoops, and with the one and dones, probably never to be seen again.

 
It was okay, they portrayed him like he was a ####, but not the biggest **** ever, which he was. Still hate him, good 30 for 30.

ETA:

Why is the first **** censored, but the second one isn't? Gotta be something to do with the comma.

ETA2:

Board upgrade language filter upgrade.

 
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Damn if seeing that stomp again all these years later didn't go and piss me off again. Loved Jalen Rose's comments -- 100% true then and now. If anyone other than the boys from Duke had done that people would still be spitting on them in the street. Ridiculous that he wasn't tossed.

 
Good perspective on how it's really stupid to hate athletes like they date raped your sister. Never liked Duke, don't necessarily like their fans, but never really hated any of their players more than just wanting them to lose. Same goes for all the teams I hate. Hate the logo, not the guy wearing it who you don't ####### know.

 
That was an enjoyable trip down memory lane. I LOL'd at the home video of the Kentucky fan.

"WE'RE GONNA WIN!!!!!" .... Oops!

But my main takeaway from this program is that black dudes age much better than white dudes.

 
hammerva said:
Holy crap the comparison of Johnny from Karate Kid to Laettner was so dead on :D

Should not be a surprise that the bully was roughed around pretty bad from his bigger brother.

Damn they are bringing up the gay allegations with Brian Davis :shock:

Homosexual and fa**ot chant in the LSU. jesus imagine that in 2015
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The credit for the Johnny Lawrence = Duke connection goes to Bill Simmons. Back in the Page 2 days he ran some stuff taking characters from high school movies and speculating what colleges they went to, "You just know Johnny Lawrence went to Duke". It worked really well in the doc.

What sort of family names one son "Chris" and another son "Christian"? It's like they wanted him to be a dodgeball victim.

The homophobia stuff was one area where I found Laettner to be a sympathetic figure. I kinda dug that Laettner and Davis combated the slurs by holding hands and such. Made the bigots look even worse. Of course he undid all that and more. All that petty #### he did with Hurley must have been a ##### for the other teammates and coaching staff to put with.

The stuff about Laettner being like a son to the Krzyzewskis didn't ring true IMO. One of the reasons why Laettner ####ed around with Hurley so much was because he was jealous that Hurley was clearly Coach K's favorite.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Good perspective on how it's really stupid to hate athletes like they date raped your sister. Never liked Duke, don't necessarily like their fans, but never really hated any of their players more than just wanting them to lose. Same goes for all the teams I hate. Hate the logo, not the guy wearing it who you don't ####### know.
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This.

 
The doc was pretty good. I dont think they portrayed him as a symapthetic figure at all.

The funny thing about the stomp, when you watch the replay, its pretty obvious why he did it. He wasnt trying to be the typical badass in this incident, he just chose the wrong guy. I have a strong feeling that if the roles were reversed, plenty of people would say that Laettner got what he deserved.

The most shocking thing to me in the whole doc was the people calling his 12 year old sister a slut and a whore. WTF is wrong with people?

 
massraider said:
Good doc. Laettner's shot against Kentucky was one of the most revolting sports memories I have, and I wasn't even huge basketball fan.

What I kept thinking during that doc was it's a bummer for fans that players will never develop personalities and fan bases like that ever again. Laettner played against Alonzo Mourning as a frosh, played those UNLV teams, and the Fab Five and Shaq later. Amazing time for college hoops, and with the one and dones, probably never to be seen again.
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I have a feeling if some of the Kentucky players hung around for 4 years these days, there'd be plenty of hate.

Four years of Demarcus Cousins mighta done it.

 
I haven't watched it yet, have it on my DVR.

I was at the Kentucky game in Philly. It was actually my first live NCAA tournament weekend. Got to see the Hurley's play each other and was sitting two rows behind their parents. They had on jackets sewn together, half Duke and half Seton Hall. Also got to watch the crowd hammer Ted Kennedy on his way out after the UMass fell to Kentucky, it was brutal. He was in my section down closer to court side.

That game was amazing live, I remember after the game we went to a bar in South Philly and it was all anyone could talk about. It was funny watching the replay of the gut stomp. It didn't seem nearly as bad live, it was kind of quick and didn't seem too bad, almost like he was just kind of lifting his leg not to step on him or stumbled or something. I remember watching the replay and hating Laettner even more. I've always been a Nova fan and didn't have a rooting interest but like every other "decent" person in the world I hated Duke. By the end of that game I was a Kentucky fan and have been for over 20 years. It was a heart breaker but the best live game I've ever been to.

I have tickets this weekend for Charlotte. I doubt anyone is touching Duke in the first two rounds but you can bet I'll be rooting against them.

 
Was in 8th grade when that was played.

Was my 1st ever bet, with Louis Pubokowitz.

I had kentucky and stayed up to watch the heart break. Having to go in the next day and pay up was excruciating painfull.

It was so hard handing over 4 quarters to him.

Feels like I haven't won a bet since....

 
The 1992 Duke/Kentucky game really is one of those "I remember when..." sports moments, isn't it?

I'm sure the game will get replayed in ESPN Classic over the next few weeks. The NCAA YouTube channel probably has highlights, if not the full game.

The part about that game that seems to get forgotten outside of Kentucky was how great UK's second-half comeback was. They were dead. The game felt over. But then Pitino put the seniors back in for one last ride, the press started clicking again, shots started falling, and we had overselves a game.

It wasn't just Laettner's shot at the buzzer. There were 3-4 game-winners hit in that last minute. It would have been a storybook finish for the Unforgettables to pull off the upset on a 10-footer from straight on that banked in.

But darn it, Laettner had to hit every damn shot he took that night. Every. Damn. One.

#######.

 
Honestly, Lorenzo Charles dunk was a bigger moment for me personally. It was just so shocking that NC State could beat Houston. When Hill threw that pass it was like I knew what was about to happen. ####### Duke.

 
wdcrob said:
Damn if seeing that stomp again all these years later didn't go and piss me off again. Loved Jalen Rose's comments -- 100% true then and now. If anyone other than the boys from Duke had done that people would still be spitting on them in the street. Ridiculous that he wasn't tossed.
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The gentlest stomp in the history of stomps. Clearly meant to establish dominance and to piss the guy off rather than to hurt. Still, I have to draw the line at stomping, regardless of how lightly, on a man down. I'd have tossed him from the game. Ironic that he stomped the wrong guy. I loved the way the stompee handled it.

 
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