Limp Ditka
Footballguy
I'm sure something happened in a Ga Tech / Duke game and he thinks the whole world should feel the same way that Yellow Jacket fans do.Apple Jack said:
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ESPN's 30 for 30- Buffalo Bills episode premieres 12/12 (1 Viewer)
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Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I was around for Laettner and not being contrarian.Apple Jack said:
Laettner was hated sure but mostly because of his NCAA tournament success. Redick was hated in every ACC arena he entered especially Maryland. From the "Redick-u-ly Gay" sign to the "F*** You Redick" chants. That dude wasn't liked at all. He just wasn't as good a player as Laettner was.
By the way, Laettner wasn't even the biggest jerk at Duke back then. That would be Danny Ferry and it's not even close.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Stop what? What's your deal? I just stated that I thought Redick was hated more than Laettner and you're losing your mind over it.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
You didn't tell us that you thought it, you told us that he was.
rockaction
Footballguy
Eh, I remember Redick and Langdon as particularly hated by opposing teams. I don't think Ramblin Wreck is that far off. Although even Rod Sellers had a run-in with Laettner, so maybe you had to be there, in that time, to get it.
But Redick and Duke were hated, possibly stemming from all the calls Coach K used to work the refs for during that period of the aughts when Duke got all the calls.
But Redick and Duke were hated, possibly stemming from all the calls Coach K used to work the refs for during that period of the aughts when Duke got all the calls.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Really? Me posting anything implies it's MY OPINION. You and your Apple Jerk alias are trying to claim "fact" way more than I am.
lombardi
Footballguy
Redick may have been hated more by his rivals or in the ACC. However, the Laettner hate took on a life of its own, it went national. Laettner was much more of a villain to the average person than Redick ever was.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Redick was hated because of Laettner. He made it fashionable to hate Duke and especially white Guys on Duke and Redick fell victim to that. Hate for Laettner was legit, he was the Laimbeer of college basketball.
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Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Yeah, I agree with this and that's better said. Laettner was hated more nationally but Redick was hated more within the ACC.
I'm a well-known "Duke Hater" and I don't even hate Laettner. I respect him and other than the Timberlake play never considered him dirty. Danny Ferry was a dirty SOB. Greg Paulus is probably my #1 most hated Dookie of all-time because of all his celebrations/antics for other people's success (and the flopping). At least Laettner and Redick (and even Ferry) were great players.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Can't wait for the 'I Still Hate JJ Redick' 30 for 30.
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jomar
Footballguy
if Laettner gets booted for the stomp and doesn't hit that shot, the Fab Five win the tourney 
I was in college when Laettner was at Duke and I don't remember hating them. in fact, I rooted for them to beat UNLV. didn't start to hate them until they beat Michigan twice in the 1991-92 season. even though I hated Duke, I loved Laettner's game. as good of a college player as I've seen as I was too young to see Alcindor.
I was in college when Laettner was at Duke and I don't remember hating them. in fact, I rooted for them to beat UNLV. didn't start to hate them until they beat Michigan twice in the 1991-92 season. even though I hated Duke, I loved Laettner's game. as good of a college player as I've seen as I was too young to see Alcindor.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, the Laettner hate forgets the "Student Athletes beat Athletic Students" jibe and headlines. This is revisionist. I think people didn't hate Laettner until he became a pro. Then they felt violated, for some reason.if Laettner gets booted for the stomp and doesn't hit that shot, the Fab Five win the tourney
I was in college when Laettner was at Duke and I don't remember hating them. in fact, I rooted for them to beat UNLV. didn't start to hate them until they beat Michigan twice in the 1991-92 season. even though I hated Duke, I loved Laettner's game. as good of a college player as I've seen as I was too young to see Alcindor.
You name the reason, I'm not going to do it.
It's nice of ESPN to play up a late angle of hate for Laettner that came from later sentiments about Duke.
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blend
Footballguy
I really liked Laettner when he played in college because I was at the Fab Five game in Ann Arbor and could hear the trash talking. It was fantastic. It didn't help that I couldn't stand the fab five but that was a differnet 30 for 30.
I agree that the Laettner hate really seemed to be bigger once he got the spot on the dream team and didn't become the second coming in the NBA. In college, he was just ridiculously clutch and so so good.
I agree that the Laettner hate really seemed to be bigger once he got the spot on the dream team and didn't become the second coming in the NBA. In college, he was just ridiculously clutch and so so good.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Took Zeke's spot. Though I did love that they'd sit around playing hi stakes poker and send broke ### college boy to get the room service at the door.
Golden Gopher
Footballguy
Pretty much this. A lot of casual basketball/sports fans hated Laettner/Duke. Most casual fans wouldn't even know who Redick is/was.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Danny Ferry left after Laettner's freshman year.
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
My white guy duke hate started with Mark Alarie. I'm sure if I were old enough I could have hated Gminski too.
rockaction
Footballguy
Nah. Really? You have to remember that the rise of ESPN coincided with Redick. Most casual fans probably know by now. Laettner was the non-early adopters CBS's Pony Boy, if you get what I'm saying.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
20+ years later and Laettner still wins the award. 30 for 30 made about him.
Nobody even cares about Redick.
What the F are you talking about?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Exactly.
If I think poop is the best dinner ever, I still have enough awareness to know that it is not widely regarded as the best dinner ever.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Joe Summer
Footballguy
tdoss
Footballguy
To Ramblin's defense...the Redick hate was over the top within the ACC.
With Laettner...it was everywhere by his senior year...but it was mostly spoken. You'd hear slurs and things from crowd and opponents...
Then it evolved into more outwardly shown and accepted hate when Redick came along. Signs in the stands were dedicated to hating him...along with the slurs and whatnot. You'd see games where the crowd resembled a WWE match with signs of hate everywhere in the crowd.
But the Redick thing never got to the Laettner realm where everyone knew him and hated him.
Laettner was in so many Final Fours and Championships. Very few have ever had that much continued exposure and just kept rising to the challenge. America was forced to take a side with Laettner because he was always there at the end.
Laettner pretty much solidified the Duke hate...now it's just a national pasttime.
Most college fans are waiting for the next white Duke player to hate (Grayson Allen) and that's because of Laettner.
With Laettner...it was everywhere by his senior year...but it was mostly spoken. You'd hear slurs and things from crowd and opponents...
Then it evolved into more outwardly shown and accepted hate when Redick came along. Signs in the stands were dedicated to hating him...along with the slurs and whatnot. You'd see games where the crowd resembled a WWE match with signs of hate everywhere in the crowd.
But the Redick thing never got to the Laettner realm where everyone knew him and hated him.
Laettner was in so many Final Fours and Championships. Very few have ever had that much continued exposure and just kept rising to the challenge. America was forced to take a side with Laettner because he was always there at the end.
Laettner pretty much solidified the Duke hate...now it's just a national pasttime.
Most college fans are waiting for the next white Duke player to hate (Grayson Allen) and that's because of Laettner.
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tommyboy
Footballguy
chris webber this morning said he (laettner) was the greatest college player of his generation. that's respectif Laettner gets booted for the stomp and doesn't hit that shot, the Fab Five win the tourney
I was in college when Laettner was at Duke and I don't remember hating them. in fact, I rooted for them to beat UNLV. didn't start to hate them until they beat Michigan twice in the 1991-92 season. even though I hated Duke, I loved Laettner's game. as good of a college player as I've seen as I was too young to see Alcindor.
saintfool
Dead sexy
this is true. i don't recall the hatred for guys like Tommy Amaker - or Coach K for that matter - back in the day. Laettner seemed to court it. A succession of Duke players - Woj, most notably - kept up the tradition.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Ferry was an ##### on the court. The doc last night showed the clip of ferry clotheslining a Louisville player going for a celebratory dunk after the buzzer. Ferry played the college game like a late 70s/early 80s NBA center: a lot of hidden contact, grabs, elbows, jersey-pulling to get separation or win rebounds.
But Ferry didn't check in with the crowd to fuel hate like Laettner did. Ferry was the son of an NBA player and GM playing like his dad and his dad's co-coworkers played. Laettner liked turning the game into theater with all the trash-talking to opponents and gestures to the crowd. He played the game like a pro wrestling heel who could actually grapple. And when he won the 1991 title, he was a wrestling heel with the title belt.
The Wojo and Redick hatred was certainly felt through the ACC, but didn't connect nationally. Wojo wasn't that great of a player, and Redick shot Duke out of the NCAAs a few times.
But Ferry didn't check in with the crowd to fuel hate like Laettner did. Ferry was the son of an NBA player and GM playing like his dad and his dad's co-coworkers played. Laettner liked turning the game into theater with all the trash-talking to opponents and gestures to the crowd. He played the game like a pro wrestling heel who could actually grapple. And when he won the 1991 title, he was a wrestling heel with the title belt.
The Wojo and Redick hatred was certainly felt through the ACC, but didn't connect nationally. Wojo wasn't that great of a player, and Redick shot Duke out of the NCAAs a few times.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Yep, Wojo was hated because of the "floor slap". Chris Collins was hated too but like Wojo/Paulus just wasn't a good enough player to be in the Ferry, Laettner, and Redick class.
I don't recall much Cherokee Parks hate. He seemed to be the one good player that escaped the Duke white guy hate. Jon Scheyer had a little hate but nothing too bad (didn't realize until the other day he was coaching at Duke now).
I don't recall much Cherokee Parks hate. He seemed to be the one good player that escaped the Duke white guy hate. Jon Scheyer had a little hate but nothing too bad (didn't realize until the other day he was coaching at Duke now).
The General
Footballguy
I had totally forgotten about the UConn guy whose cheap shot on Laettner's head was much, much worse than the foot stomp. So really doubt there would be some historical difference if someone else did the Laettner foot stomp.
Should he have been tossed, probably. But Jalen, #### already. Enough about the how great the Fab Five was, never won a thing. Culturally significant, sure. But that's about it. Zero titles, zero conference champs.
The more I hear them talk about themselves the less I like them and more I appreciate Duke.
Thought this 30/30 was great. Well done as always, love that show.
Rushmore
Footballguy
I've seen this before about Grayson. It's definitely possible, but he just seems like such a good and likable kid, I wonder if it transpires. I do think he's going to eventually be a stud though. Reminds me a tad of Rex Chapman.
lombardi
Footballguy
The hate is there for teams that are really good for a really long time because they have beat so many people's favorite teams. When a team beats your favorite team in a championship or a big semi-final type game, you start hating them. Ask a Duke fan how they feel about UNLV or Arkansas (or Mercer 
, I couldn't resist). When your team gets so close and loses it burns that other team into your "hate-memory" forever.
To make it even worse, if the team wins a couple/few championships the band wagon stooges come out of the woodwork. Nothing makes you hate a team more than a group of idiots who really don't care screaming and celebrating your teams loss after you lived and died on every play. The same people who would shrug and say "oh well" and start looking for a new team to root for next year while you know it's going to take all season (if ever) to get over your disappointment. It's infuriating.
There was a TON of this in the Laettner Duke years. People who you never heard talk about college basketball in their lives were walking around with Duke caps on and talking trash like they'd been there all along. Duke is like the Yankees, the Cowboys, the Lakers, etc.. They were really good for a long time and beat a lot of peoples favorite teams and then to add insult to injury you were surround by idiots who never cared before screaming and yelling when they won championships. When you really love a team and suffer through the hard years and then get so close and miss you're gonna really burn against that opponent. Have a few casual band wagon fans mocking you at work on Monday morning and it really sets it in deep.
Laettner was just the face of the franchise at that time. Not only was he all-world (easily the best college player of his generation) but he embodied everything people already disliked about an expensive, privileged private University. He acted just like that rich kid you hated in high school, right down to the superior smirk and attitude on the court. Duke was good, they're beating everyone's favorite teams, idiot wannabe Duke fans (which didn't exist outside of the NC Piedmont a few years earlier) are getting obnoxious. In walks this living and breathing example of what you were already thinking, it was like the perfect storm.
As I get older I find it harder to hate Duke. It's hard not to respect Coach K. He continues to win year after year, there's never been a grade fixing, paid player, sexual assaault, or fake class scandal that I can remember. He preaches defense, team play, foul shots, winning the "right" way, makes kids accountable for their actions (Sulaimon)... all the things us old farts like to complain is missing from the game today. When so many giants fall and legacies are destroyed (RIP Joe Pa) it's hard not to respect a guy that is clean, wins, and does it in a way everyone can respect.
I can't wait to watch the 30 for 30. I've come around on Laettner. It's easy to forget just how great he was in college. All of us Duke haters reveled in his mediocre (at best) NBA career but his overall dominance in the college game was an amazing thing to watch, I'm glad I got to not only see it but see probably it's most famous moment in person. When I hear him interviewed now I have a lot of respect for him. He's honest, still has a little swagger, but seems to have some real perspective and owns everything he did, good and bad. I'm not going out to buy a throwback #32 jersey for this weekends games but years later I have a grudging respect for Laettner and I almost like Coach K (although i'll never admit it out loud, in public).
Saying that....
Go Robert Morris/North Florida!!! I can't say I wouldn't be giddy if Duke was the first 1 seed in history to go down, and I have knack for being at history making games
, I couldn't resist). When your team gets so close and loses it burns that other team into your "hate-memory" forever.To make it even worse, if the team wins a couple/few championships the band wagon stooges come out of the woodwork. Nothing makes you hate a team more than a group of idiots who really don't care screaming and celebrating your teams loss after you lived and died on every play. The same people who would shrug and say "oh well" and start looking for a new team to root for next year while you know it's going to take all season (if ever) to get over your disappointment. It's infuriating.
There was a TON of this in the Laettner Duke years. People who you never heard talk about college basketball in their lives were walking around with Duke caps on and talking trash like they'd been there all along. Duke is like the Yankees, the Cowboys, the Lakers, etc.. They were really good for a long time and beat a lot of peoples favorite teams and then to add insult to injury you were surround by idiots who never cared before screaming and yelling when they won championships. When you really love a team and suffer through the hard years and then get so close and miss you're gonna really burn against that opponent. Have a few casual band wagon fans mocking you at work on Monday morning and it really sets it in deep.
Laettner was just the face of the franchise at that time. Not only was he all-world (easily the best college player of his generation) but he embodied everything people already disliked about an expensive, privileged private University. He acted just like that rich kid you hated in high school, right down to the superior smirk and attitude on the court. Duke was good, they're beating everyone's favorite teams, idiot wannabe Duke fans (which didn't exist outside of the NC Piedmont a few years earlier) are getting obnoxious. In walks this living and breathing example of what you were already thinking, it was like the perfect storm.
As I get older I find it harder to hate Duke. It's hard not to respect Coach K. He continues to win year after year, there's never been a grade fixing, paid player, sexual assaault, or fake class scandal that I can remember. He preaches defense, team play, foul shots, winning the "right" way, makes kids accountable for their actions (Sulaimon)... all the things us old farts like to complain is missing from the game today. When so many giants fall and legacies are destroyed (RIP Joe Pa) it's hard not to respect a guy that is clean, wins, and does it in a way everyone can respect.
I can't wait to watch the 30 for 30. I've come around on Laettner. It's easy to forget just how great he was in college. All of us Duke haters reveled in his mediocre (at best) NBA career but his overall dominance in the college game was an amazing thing to watch, I'm glad I got to not only see it but see probably it's most famous moment in person. When I hear him interviewed now I have a lot of respect for him. He's honest, still has a little swagger, but seems to have some real perspective and owns everything he did, good and bad. I'm not going out to buy a throwback #32 jersey for this weekends games but years later I have a grudging respect for Laettner and I almost like Coach K (although i'll never admit it out loud, in public).
Saying that....
Go Robert Morris/North Florida!!! I can't say I wouldn't be giddy if Duke was the first 1 seed in history to go down, and I have knack for being at history making games
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tdoss
Footballguy
tdoss
Footballguy
The kid seems to be too good to escape the watchful eye of those who want to hate...give it time.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Crap I knew I forgot someone. I actually liked Singler. He just played and was never part of any of the antics (Flopping, floor slapping, playing to the crowd) that makes people dislike the other guys mentioned.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
My dad and I watched the game together - and we're not basketball fans; it just happened to be on.
We loved the game.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
I never understood what Pelphrey was doing on the play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3_IT622Sbc
He's just watching. There's making sure you don't foul and then there's stepping back as to get a nice view of the shot. I almost feel like Laettner could have caught it then spun toward the basket for an uncontested lay up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3_IT622Sbc
He's just watching. There's making sure you don't foul and then there's stepping back as to get a nice view of the shot. I almost feel like Laettner could have caught it then spun toward the basket for an uncontested lay up.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i'll say this about growing up and going to college in NC. as a kid, i was taught to hate NC State every bit as much as Duke. to that point, "Duke hate" was primarily born out of the perception that rich kids from the NE were showign up in NC to take our girls. guys like Wojo and Redick are standing on the shoulders of giants of duke hate like Bobby Hurley and Laettner.
favorite duke-hate memory? when Coach K said on national tv that Hurley wasn't playing well because he had the trots. with Hurley sitting right next to him.
favorite duke-hate memory? when Coach K said on national tv that Hurley wasn't playing well because he had the trots. with Hurley sitting right next to him.
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McGarnicle
Footballguy
I'm neutral on Laettner but I understand why he was so hated. One thing you can't deny is his really rare ability to feed off the hate like he did. A lot of guys would've come unglued in that LSU game, but he seemed to relish it. Anyone would kill to have a guy like that on their team -- fearless, clutch, 100% balls. I wasn't aware of his relationship with Hurley or his homosexuality. Pretty compelling doc.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
Laettner probably pounded him in the ### the night before.
tdoss
Footballguy
I think this post pretty much sums up why Duke fans have trouble taking the haters serious.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
I think Laettner was hated because he was a jerk. Even his teammates said he was a jerk. He even looked and sounded like a jerk.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
I do think there are some guys that are just put together that way though. Richard Sherman comes to mind. The swagger and the trash talk is how they get mentally into the game. And Laettner got away with it. The stomp on the KY player should've been an ejection.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
I had to google "the trots", hadn't heard that term before.
oso diablo
Footballguy
i found the Laettner 30for30 to be revisionist history.
The dominant feeling toward Duke in the popular culture/media, up through the 1991 season, was of the good guys who can't win it all. There was much more affection than hate around the country. In the 1992 season (Laettner's senior year), Duke was #1 from start to finish, and the team was courted like rock stars.
There was probably more hate toward Laettner coming from the Duke locker room than anywhere else at the time... until the Kentucky game and the Aminu Stomp. That was the turning point, and even then, it took a while to take hold in national consciousness, awash in the celebratory afterglow of The Shot.
The dominant feeling toward Duke in the popular culture/media, up through the 1991 season, was of the good guys who can't win it all. There was much more affection than hate around the country. In the 1992 season (Laettner's senior year), Duke was #1 from start to finish, and the team was courted like rock stars.
There was probably more hate toward Laettner coming from the Duke locker room than anywhere else at the time... until the Kentucky game and the Aminu Stomp. That was the turning point, and even then, it took a while to take hold in national consciousness, awash in the celebratory afterglow of The Shot.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
But Sherman has at least an off-setting personable quality. He's also very polite. Laettner never showed that. He was just always an #######. Seems like he's lightened up with age though.
oso diablo
Footballguy
agree. it was always clear to fans at the time that Hurley was seen as the son that Coach K never had.
K's advice to Sidney Lowe - that Laettner was like "fire" that had to be channeled into a productive use - is very revealing for how he felt.
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