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ESPN's 30 for 30- Buffalo Bills episode premieres 12/12 (1 Viewer)

I always remembered the stomp being much worse. Maybe it's because of some real stomps in sports recently but that was more sending a message than trying to do any damage.

 
btw, enjoyed seeing how Laettner has handled the Kentucky/Aminu thing. There was a shot of him letting Timberlake step on his chest. And one of Laettner letting a bunch of UK fans pose while stepping on Laettner's chest. And the clip of Laettner mopping up the floor with a towel (presumably at some charity event).

 
oso diablo said:
i found the Laettner 30for30 to be revisionist history.

The dominant feeling toward Duke in the popular culture/media, up through the 1991 season, was of the good guys who can't win it all. There was much more affection than hate around the country. In the 1992 season (Laettner's senior year), Duke was #1 from start to finish, and the team was courted like rock stars.

There was probably more hate toward Laettner coming from the Duke locker room than anywhere else at the time... until the Kentucky game and the Aminu Stomp. That was the turning point, and even then, it took a while to take hold in national consciousness, awash in the celebratory afterglow of The Shot.
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I thought they overstated the fondness level for UNLV. They were HotSportsTakes fuel. There was definitely an element of Duke being the established program doing things the right way overcoming this rogue program in a rogue city with rogue players in an insignificant conference. The anti-hero going mainstream was still a while away.

I was Duke play in person in both the 1991 and 1992 NCAAs. They definitely had enemies in 1991. Part of that I'm sure was their weekend opponent, Iowa, had thousands of fans make the drive up to Minneapolis. But the UConn and Xavier fans were cheering against Duke, too. My seats were a few rows behind the Duke band. Let's just say that pocket were not positive ambassadors of the program: a lot of trash-talking about opposing players, teams, backgrounds, and bands. They lived up to the stereotype of elitist Duke.

I was in town for the 1992 Final Four and attended the Duke/Michigan final. Duke, and especially Laettner, had their fans and drew shrieks when they emerged from hotels, buses, and of course taking the court for open practices and games. It was big news when it was revealed which hotel each team was staying at. But even the Indiana fans who stuck around for Monday weren't quick to cheer for Knight's cherished assistant against a big conference rival.

 
jomar said:
if Laettner gets booted for the stomp and doesn't hit that shot, the Fab Five win the tourney :angry:

I was in college when Laettner was at Duke and I don't remember hating them. in fact, I rooted for them to beat UNLV. didn't start to hate them until they beat Michigan twice in the 1991-92 season. even though I hated Duke, I loved Laettner's game. as good of a college player as I've seen as I was too young to see Alcindor.
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Sorry in advance to highjack the thread, but I actually have always said that if Laettner got booted from that game that Indiana would have won the title.

For the record, I hated Laettner and the Fab Five equally!

 
And fyi, if the guy who shoved laettner under the hoop had something called, that horrifying stomp never occurs.

Good 30 for 30, as just about all of them are.

Can they make another Broke episode? Should be one of those every couple years.

 
ghostguy123 said:
When did step become a stomp? There is a reason the guy immediately laughed
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Especially compared to the head smash Laettner took from the UConn guy. Not an excuse but Laettner had been pushed in the back a few minutes earlier and this guy sort of walked up to him on the ground saying what's up.

Can't believe I'm defending Laettner even a little.

 
Duke was easy to hate because they were on TV a lot too. It wasn't like now where every game can be seen on TV or online. There was one or two games on certain weeknights. Duke's games were televised more than most. Everybody loves rooting for the underdog and in the days of Laettner/Hurley, especially Laettner's last two years the underdog was rarely Duke.

The documentary reminded me how much better college basketball was back then with most guys staying for four years. There will never be another Laettner because the hatred won't have enough time to build to that level. If Laettner was playing today he'd be in school for 2 years tops. Would never have won a title.

 
I didn't remember those feeble inbounds passes to Hurley. I can't imagine a player doing that today without getting raked over the coals.

 
The part of it that I found kind of pathetic was everyone playing out their class hatred through a bunch of kids playing basketball. Just enjoy the games and leave your assumptions about the kids' backgrounds out of it.

 
If Laettner had played in an era when the internet was taking off like Redick did, that comparison wouldn't even have been made. Even in the Dark Ages of the early 90s, as has been said, he was hated on a national level. Redick caught the web wave, but didn't seem to get the national attention Laettner did.

He's somewhere in the 10 best college players I've ever seen - he was nasty, good, a winner, and had multiple iconic moments.

Christ Almighty I wanted to snuff him out, though.

 
I can't speak for nationally, but anybody suggesting the level of disdain for Laettner and Hurley by other ACC fans is a revisionist thing is Wrongy McWrongenstern.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
If Laettner had played in an era when the internet was taking off like Redick did, that comparison wouldn't even have been made. Even in the Dark Ages of the early 90s, as has been said, he was hated on a national level. Redick caught the web wave, but didn't seem to get the national attention Laettner did.

He's somewhere in the 10 best college players I've ever seen - he was nasty, good, a winner, and had multiple iconic moments.

Christ Almighty I wanted to snuff him out, though.
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Right. The signs and jumping up and down thing came about around the Redick team. Passion has always been there. Redick was nothing compared to Laettner in terms of the level of vitriol. Redick was just a Duke pretty boy who kept beating your team. Laettner was an #######. Big difference.

 
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Apple Jack said:
Uruk-Hai said:
If Laettner had played in an era when the internet was taking off like Redick did, that comparison wouldn't even have been made. Even in the Dark Ages of the early 90s, as has been said, he was hated on a national level. Redick caught the web wave, but didn't seem to get the national attention Laettner did.

He's somewhere in the 10 best college players I've ever seen - he was nasty, good, a winner, and had multiple iconic moments.

Christ Almighty I wanted to snuff him out, though.
Click to expand...
Right. The signs and jumping up and down thing came about around the Redick team. Passion has always been there. Redick was nothing compared to Laettner in terms of the level of vitriol. Redick was just a Duke pretty boy who kept beating your team. Laettner was an #######. Big difference.
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I'll have to watch the doc...I never understood why people would say that about him.

What made him an #######? Because he talked crap? He was basically serving what was being served. The dude was constantly being berated by black players especially. He sends it right back at them and then backs it up makes him an #######?

 
tdoss said:
Apple Jack said:
Uruk-Hai said:
If Laettner had played in an era when the internet was taking off like Redick did, that comparison wouldn't even have been made. Even in the Dark Ages of the early 90s, as has been said, he was hated on a national level. Redick caught the web wave, but didn't seem to get the national attention Laettner did.

He's somewhere in the 10 best college players I've ever seen - he was nasty, good, a winner, and had multiple iconic moments.

Christ Almighty I wanted to snuff him out, though.
Click to expand...
Right. The signs and jumping up and down thing came about around the Redick team. Passion has always been there. Redick was nothing compared to Laettner in terms of the level of vitriol. Redick was just a Duke pretty boy who kept beating your team. Laettner was an #######. Big difference.
Click to expand...
I'll have to watch the doc...I never understood why people would say that about him.

What made him an #######? Because he talked crap? He was basically serving what was being served. The dude was constantly being berated by black players especially. He sends it right back at them and then backs it up makes him an #######?
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On a meta level, he looked like a rich white kid (I know, I know - he was "blue collar" - I'm talking perception) and had a smirk permanently pasted on his face that read to many as "I'm better than you and there's nothing you can do about it".

On a basketball level, he was really ####### good for what looking a budding dynasty.

Agree, thouhg, with whoever said above that Danny Ferry was a much bigger ######## than Laettner. He just figured out how to work it.

 
I really liked this one. I'm 38 and all of this took place shortly after I became interested in college sports (and I became a Duke fan because everyone in my class was choosing Duke/UNC sides and my crush, Bradley, was a Duke fan). I remember these games and if nothing else, this was a great stroll down memory lane.

 
tdoss said:
Apple Jack said:
Uruk-Hai said:
If Laettner had played in an era when the internet was taking off like Redick did, that comparison wouldn't even have been made. Even in the Dark Ages of the early 90s, as has been said, he was hated on a national level. Redick caught the web wave, but didn't seem to get the national attention Laettner did.

He's somewhere in the 10 best college players I've ever seen - he was nasty, good, a winner, and had multiple iconic moments.

Christ Almighty I wanted to snuff him out, though.
Click to expand...
Right. The signs and jumping up and down thing came about around the Redick team. Passion has always been there. Redick was nothing compared to Laettner in terms of the level of vitriol. Redick was just a Duke pretty boy who kept beating your team. Laettner was an #######. Big difference.
Click to expand...
I'll have to watch the doc...I never understood why people would say that about him.

What made him an #######? Because he talked crap? He was basically serving what was being served. The dude was constantly being berated by black players especially. He sends it right back at them and then backs it up makes him an #######?
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Some was the mouth, the smugness, the laimbeer tugging/shoving/elbowing, above and beyond good physical play. Some taunting. And the rep of him being a ##### on campus and in practice. That got out.

ETA: Forgot to mention the part about him playing for Duke and being really freaking good.

 
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tdoss said:
Ramblin Wreck said:
Yep, Wojo was hated because of the "floor slap". Chris Collins was hated too but like Wojo/Paulus just wasn't a good enough player to be in the Ferry, Laettner, and Redick class.

I don't recall much Cherokee Parks hate. He seemed to be the one good player that escaped the Duke white guy hate. Jon Scheyer had a little hate but nothing too bad (didn't realize until the other day he was coaching at Duke now).
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I was surprised to see Singler escape scrutiny.
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:goodposting:

He sucks balls.

 
YSR said:
I really liked this one. I'm 38 and all of this took place shortly after I became interested in college sports (and I became a Duke fan because everyone in my class was choosing Duke/UNC sides and my crush, Bradley, was a Duke fan). I remember these games and if nothing else, this was a great stroll down memory lane.
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This Bradley guy sounds like a loser.

 
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As a UConn fan, my hatred for Laettner and Duke subsided in 1999 when we beat them in Tampa for the National Championship. Now I actually appreciate what Laettner did and have a lot of respect for the guy. 4 Final Fours and 2 National Championships? That's crazy.

 
Life is better with villains.

If all he had to endure was some slurs and a few hard fouls/court brawls...seems about par for the course for the level of d-baggery? :shrug:

One question I have, did he get passed around in the NBA because he sucked or because he was a bad teammate or just bad luck?? I don't remember him in the NBA but lasting 13 years is a pretty good career.

 
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Laettner never learned to play NBA offense at NBA speed. That was the biggest problem. He would take a pass on the wing or high post, pivot, jab step, state, ball fake, drain the shot clock, then drive to the hoop.

Once he started making his move, it was often effective. He could shoot through contact, finish with either hand, decent midrange jumper. It would just take him so long to make up his mind and commit, he would have to get through 2-3 defenders instead of one.

The most surprising thing about his NBA game IMO was he was a much better post defender than he gets credit for. He wasn't a rim protector or mich of a help defender, but when his man got the ball on the left block, Laettner could make life difficult for him.

He wasn't anywhere near the leader he needed to be. He battled with the coaching staff all the time. He would give quotes to the media that were true, but alienating. His offensive game didn't make the game easier for his teammates, and on defense he was more interested in keeping his man from scoring than keeping the other team from scoring.

Eventually he wore out his welcome. The team had the opportunity to trade for Tom Gugliotta, who was redundant on offense and needed to play PF on defense. There wasn't room on the court for both of them, and Gugliotta was a better teammate. So off to Atlanta Laettner went for Andrew Lang and Spud Webb.

Lost track of him after that. Didn't care. IIRC he had one really good season in ATL at PF with Mutumbo at C, but I'm not going to look it up.

 
Really surprised no one has mentioned that Dukie Vitale turned a lot of people against Duke and K and Laettner. The knob polishing he did during every Duke game was nauseating. And he did EVERY Duke game.

Hated Laettner back then, totally love and appreciate him now. Someone mentioned earlier that he was like the wrestling heel. It's a character. The balls he exhibited during that LSU game are astonishing.

 
Willie Neslon said:
I never understood what Pelphrey was doing on the play

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3_IT622Sbc

He's just watching. There's making sure you don't foul and then there's stepping back as to get a nice view of the shot. I almost feel like Laettner could have caught it then spun toward the basket for an uncontested lay up.
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IIRC Pitino has taken some responsibility for telling his guys in the timeout to be sure not to foul, which led Pelphrey to play too softly.

It's not an easy thing to do, but that and not guarding the in-bounder made it significantly more feasible.

 
The college game would be soooooooooooooooooooo good if everyone stayed for 4 years. Sooooooooooooooooooo good.

A final 4 back in the day with the likes of these guys as juniors/seniors..............Lebron, Melo, WAde, Bosh, and many others............wow

 
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The overall level of play would be higher, at the same time I don't think Davis would get to the level he's at now if he wasn't playing in the NBA. There's only so much a guy like him can learn from dunking on A&M's 3-star center.

 
I think two years would be great. Get them to really gel and shine and have a legit chance at a tourney run in year 2, but not keeping them from earning the millions they deserve in the pros.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
The overall level of play would be higher, at the same time I don't think Davis would get to the level he's at now if he wasn't playing in the NBA. There's only so much a guy like him can learn from dunking on A&M's 3-star center.
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That and as an NBA-er he has so much more practice time and working out time, and with much better trainers.

But.........................sooooooooooooooooooooooo much awesomeness if he was in college 4 years.

 
Jayrod said:
I think two years would be great. Get them to really gel and shine and have a legit chance at a tourney run in year 2, but not keeping them from earning the millions they deserve in the pros.
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I dont think they should have to go to college at all.

I mean, the college game would be 100x better if they had to go 4 years, but not gonna let my selfish opinion of that make me think they should have to do that.

The college game is better when players are recognizable for more than one year. Would a 2 year thing help that a lot?? Sure, some

 
Just watched the Laettner one last night, and a couple of things struck me.

First, the spent the whole show explaining how he was a "tough" borderline dirty player. How he rode Hurley to get him to be better. They showed Grant Hill saying straight to the camera that he was a jerk. Then at the end of the episode they try to say that the image didn't match reality. What? That didn't make sense.

The other thing that struck me, as a Timberwolves fan, I had no recolection that he played in the NBA for 13 seasons.

 
oso diablo said:
i found the Laettner 30for30 to be revisionist history.

The dominant feeling toward Duke in the popular culture/media, up through the 1991 season, was of the good guys who can't win it all. There was much more affection than hate around the country. In the 1992 season (Laettner's senior year), Duke was #1 from start to finish, and the team was courted like rock stars.

There was probably more hate toward Laettner coming from the Duke locker room than anywhere else at the time... until the Kentucky game and the Aminu Stomp. That was the turning point, and even then, it took a while to take hold in national consciousness, awash in the celebratory afterglow of The Shot.
Click to expand...
Yeah, no.

Laettner was seriously hated. Hurley was too, really, but not as much as Laettner. UNLV stomping them was so great, and Duke was already the team you loved to hate by then.

 
McGarnicle said:
I'm neutral on Laettner but I understand why he was so hated. One thing you can't deny is his really rare ability to feed off the hate like he did. A lot of guys would've come unglued in that LSU game, but he seemed to relish it. Anyone would kill to have a guy like that on their team -- fearless, clutch, 100% balls. I wasn't aware of his relationship with Hurley or his homosexuality. Pretty compelling doc.
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Wait? Who's gay now?

 
ghostguy123 said:
The college game would be soooooooooooooooooooo good if everyone stayed for 4 years. Sooooooooooooooooooo good.

A final 4 back in the day with the likes of these guys as juniors/seniors..............Lebron, Melo, WAde, Bosh, and many others............wow
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LeBron had a college career? Humph, must've missed that. :coffee:

 
WhatDoIKnow said:
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
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Its funny that people liked Hill as was brought up in the 30 for 30, he was the only one on the team that actually was privledged.

 
I think lost in all of this was the fact that Cherokee Parks decided it was a great idea to get a neck tattoo

 
WhatDoIKnow said:
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
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I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hated

Its tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley

 
AcerFC said:
WhatDoIKnow said:
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
Click to expand...
I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hated

Its tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley
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What reason would anyone have for hating The Stormin' Mormon?

 
ghostguy123 said:
The college game would be soooooooooooooooooooo good if everyone stayed for 4 years. Sooooooooooooooooooo good.

A final 4 back in the day with the likes of these guys as juniors/seniors..............Lebron, Melo, WAde, Bosh, and many others............wow
Click to expand...
Sure would be great if it were somehow possible to see guys like that play basketball against each other.

 
facook said:
Really surprised no one has mentioned that Dukie Vitale turned a lot of people against Duke and K and Laettner. The knob polishing he did during every Duke game was nauseating. And he did EVERY Duke game.

Hated Laettner back then, totally love and appreciate him now. Someone mentioned earlier that he was like the wrestling heel. It's a character. The balls he exhibited during that LSU game are astonishing.
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this is a great point and they totally glossed over that in the show, don't remember them even mentioning it. But Vitale was dripping off their jockstraps and it was beyond obnoxious. Probably had a 12 page thread about it on the old yellow board

 
I've always found it weird that there is a fair amount of Duke hate by white people because of Duke's 'whiteness'. It's also weird if white people hated a program 'cuz of its blackness, but white on white hate strikes me as just odder.

 
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