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ESPN's 30 for 30- Buffalo Bills episode premieres 12/12 (1 Viewer)

oso diablo said:
i found the Laettner 30for30 to be revisionist history.

The dominant feeling toward Duke in the popular culture/media, up through the 1991 season, was of the good guys who can't win it all. There was much more affection than hate around the country. In the 1992 season (Laettner's senior year), Duke was #1 from start to finish, and the team was courted like rock stars.

There was probably more hate toward Laettner coming from the Duke locker room than anywhere else at the time... until the Kentucky game and the Aminu Stomp. That was the turning point, and even then, it took a while to take hold in national consciousness, awash in the celebratory afterglow of The Shot.
Yeah, no.

Laettner was seriously hated. Hurley was too, really, but not as much as Laettner. UNLV stomping them was so great, and Duke was already the team you loved to hate by then.
This is true...especially along racial lines.

I was in the Marine Corps at the time of that first game with UNLV and the entire room full of black dudes (from all over the South & East) HATED Duke. It was a tough night...they rode my @zz for a year over it.

Then Duke won the next year and I was able to walk without harassment through the barracks.

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
As a Duke fan...I hated Hansbrough.

But...I think it's because I always felt he should've been a Blue Devil.

The guy may have been dumber than a box of hair...but he fought hard for every second he was on the court.

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
If Hansbrough had played for Duke, he might have broken the internet with hatred.

I don't know anyone that didn't like Grant Hill. Duke's actually had a lot players in the last five years that are likable. The reason I don't like them is the bandwagon fans (mostly NY Yankee fans from New Jersey/New York), all the years of **** Vitale being their recruiting puppet, K's idea of "working the refs", the Visa recruiting commercials, and all the stupid floor slapping hey look at me stuff. Now they are just easy to hate because of Ripley's even if I like their players.

 
I've always found it weird that there is a fair amount of Duke hate by white people because of Duke's 'whiteness'. It's also weird if white people hated a program 'cuz of its blackness, but white on white hate strikes me as just odder.
white people are stupid, irrational and when you really piss us off, we throw you in ovens.

 
I've always found it weird that there is a fair amount of Duke hate by white people because of Duke's 'whiteness'. It's also weird if white people hated a program 'cuz of its blackness, but white on white hate strikes me as just odder.
white people are stupid, irrational and when you really piss us off, we throw you in ovens.
well there you go.

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
Its funny that people liked Hill as was brought up in the 30 for 30, he was the only one on the team that actually was privledged.
I'm guessing that people that like Hill and hate Laettner and Hurley were because of the douchenozzle image Laettner and Hurley had, while Hill seemed like a decent guy who was trying to stay above the drama.

 
I've always found it weird that there is a fair amount of Duke hate by white people because of Duke's 'whiteness'. It's also weird if white people hated a program 'cuz of its blackness, but white on white hate strikes me as just odder.
It's an odd thing and seems to be most prevalent on this board. Always struck me as odd...there's a handful who are avid NCAA basketball fans on this board who will deride a guy simply because he's a white basketball player or a team because it's "too white". It's simply mind-boggling and I can't imagine someone saying today on this board that a guy sucks at something like tennis or hockey simply because he's black or the team has too many black dudes.

 
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Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
If Hansbrough had played for Duke, he might have broken the internet with hatred.
Really think this is true...he would probably transcend Laettner even though he wasn't as successful. It would definitely eclipse Redick.

 
I've always found it weird that there is a fair amount of Duke hate by white people because of Duke's 'whiteness'. It's also weird if white people hated a program 'cuz of its blackness, but white on white hate strikes me as just odder.
Are they hated just because they are white? Gerald Henderson and Dahntay Jones belong on the d-bag list and they aren't white. And there are white guys that were never hated like Parks, Singler, and Scheyer (Scheyer did get made fun of for his weird facial expressions though).

 
I've always found it weird that there is a fair amount of Duke hate by white people because of Duke's 'whiteness'. It's also weird if white people hated a program 'cuz of its blackness, but white on white hate strikes me as just odder.
Are they hated just because they are white? Gerald Henderson and Dahntay Jones belong on the d-bag list and they aren't white. And there are white guys that were never hated like Parks, Singler, and Scheyer (Scheyer did get made fun of for his weird facial expressions though).
I've heard the sentiment before the 30for30 and it was also 1 of the 5 reasons in the 30for30 documentary. Usually it's code for a pastier, nerdier type player, but rather than hating Duke cause they are pretentious or gangly or obnoxious, many people hate Duke because "they're so white". The same thing applied to the mid 80's Celtics.

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hated

Its tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley
No one cares about basketball on that side of the country

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
Definitely.

Same reason people hate(d) Notre Dame, the Yankees and the Patriots.

Lots of people hate winners unless they're fans of one of those teams.

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).

Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).

Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.
That's the players, not the fans.

The "whiteness" the fans are hating on is IMO a reaction to Duke's team wrongly being assumed to have certain attributes that sometimes are associated with whiteness- "smart" players, hard workers, tough/gritty, etc. You could put a pro-Duke **** Vitale screed next to an article about Danny Woodhead or David Eckstein and it would be hard to tell them apart. Then you add the false assumption that they're all good students too- another "white" trait- and it's a recipe for resentment.

My favorite counterexample is Brandon Knight. Knight was a brilliant student ... but he was also a Kentucky one and done. If you google "brandon knight academics" the results are so sparse that the only national stories I found on it were one from when he was a recruit and one from this year where he's reviewing Calipari's recruiting report on him. I don't remember any announcer mentioning it when he was at Kentucky- I'm sure someone did but it wasn't a big topic of conversation. Most people don't even know about it. Compare that to what people say about the Duke kids, regardless of accuracy. They were almost always praised as "well-rounded kids" or something similar by the media.

That's not Duke's fault except to the extent their fans do it (not much, at least not recently), but that's a huge factor in the resentment and is connected to the "whiteness" thing IMO.

 
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I hate all the Plumlee's. Especially their dad Perky Plumlee.

I'm not making that name up. Perky ####### Plumlee.

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.
That's the players, not the fans.

The "whiteness" the fans are hating on is IMO a reaction to Duke's team wrongly being assumed to have certain attributes that sometimes are associated with whiteness- "smart" players, hard workers, tough/gritty, etc. You could put a pro-Duke **** Vitale screed next to an article about Danny Woodhead or David Eckstein and it would be hard to tell them apart. Then you add the false assumption that they're all good students too- another "white" trait- and it's a recipe for resentment.

My favorite counterexample is Brandon Knight. Knight was a brilliant student ... but he was also a Kentucky one and done. If you google "brandon knight academics" the results are so sparse that the only national stories I found on it were one from when he was a recruit and one from this year where he's reviewing Calipari's recruiting report on him. I don't remember any announcer mentioning it when he was at Kentucky- I'm sure someone did but it wasn't a big topic of conversation. Most people don't even know about it. Compare that to what people say about the Duke kids, regardless of accuracy. They were almost always praised as "well-rounded kids" or something similar by the media.

That's not Duke's fault except to the extent their fans do it (not much, at least not recently), but that's a huge factor in the resentment and is connected to the "whiteness" thing IMO.
Definitely some merit to your post.There's also the socio-economic aspects that will sometimes draw racial lines.

But I've seen on this board many times about how a team is just too white. Not whiteness or smart or whatever...just purely skin color. Take Wisconsin for example...over the years they've been called that very term on this board. Tobias...you've been in that NCAA thread long enough to know this to be true.

I'm not saying it's the largest motivating factor...I'm just saying race definitely has played a part in this and sometime still does.

 
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Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.
That's the players, not the fans.

The "whiteness" the fans are hating on is IMO a reaction to Duke's team wrongly being assumed to have certain attributes that sometimes are associated with whiteness- "smart" players, hard workers, tough/gritty, etc. You could put a pro-Duke **** Vitale screed next to an article about Danny Woodhead or David Eckstein and it would be hard to tell them apart. Then you add the false assumption that they're all good students too- another "white" trait- and it's a recipe for resentment.

My favorite counterexample is Brandon Knight. Knight was a brilliant student ... but he was also a Kentucky one and done. If you google "brandon knight academics" the results are so sparse that the only national stories I found on it were one from when he was a recruit and one from this year where he's reviewing Calipari's recruiting report on him. I don't remember any announcer mentioning it when he was at Kentucky- I'm sure someone did but it wasn't a big topic of conversation. Most people don't even know about it. Compare that to what people say about the Duke kids, regardless of accuracy. They were almost always praised as "well-rounded kids" or something similar by the media.

That's not Duke's fault except to the extent their fans do it (not much, at least not recently), but that's a huge factor in the resentment and is connected to the "whiteness" thing IMO.
Definitely some merit to your post.

There's also the socio-economic aspects that will sometimes draw racial lines.

But I've seen on thus board many times about how a team is just too white. Not whiteness or smart or whatever...just purely skin color. Take Wisconsin for example...over the years they've been called that very term on thus board.

I'm not saying it's the largest motivating factor...I'm just saying race definitely has played a part in this and sometime still does.
Weird. I have no explanation for that. If I'm understanding you correctly that's basically the opposite of the Eckstein/Woodhead thing, and equally silly.

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.
Recruit another Gerald Henderson or dahntay jones. We can hate the black jackasses as much as the white ones. :)

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hated

Its tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley
Speaking of these guys made me think of Gregg Doyel calling out Kryzewski

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/06/Sports/Writer_s_exchange_wit.shtml

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.
That's the players, not the fans.

The "whiteness" the fans are hating on is IMO a reaction to Duke's team wrongly being assumed to have certain attributes that sometimes are associated with whiteness- "smart" players, hard workers, tough/gritty, etc. You could put a pro-Duke **** Vitale screed next to an article about Danny Woodhead or David Eckstein and it would be hard to tell them apart. Then you add the false assumption that they're all good students too- another "white" trait- and it's a recipe for resentment.

My favorite counterexample is Brandon Knight. Knight was a brilliant student ... but he was also a Kentucky one and done. If you google "brandon knight academics" the results are so sparse that the only national stories I found on it were one from when he was a recruit and one from this year where he's reviewing Calipari's recruiting report on him. I don't remember any announcer mentioning it when he was at Kentucky- I'm sure someone did but it wasn't a big topic of conversation. Most people don't even know about it. Compare that to what people say about the Duke kids, regardless of accuracy. They were almost always praised as "well-rounded kids" or something similar by the media.

That's not Duke's fault except to the extent their fans do it (not much, at least not recently), but that's a huge factor in the resentment and is connected to the "whiteness" thing IMO.
Definitely some merit to your post.There's also the socio-economic aspects that will sometimes draw racial lines.

But I've seen on thus board many times about how a team is just too white. Not whiteness or smart or whatever...just purely skin color. Take Wisconsin for example...over the years they've been called that very term on thus board.

I'm not saying it's the largest motivating factor...I'm just saying race definitely has played a part in this and sometime still does.
Weird. I have no explanation for that. If I'm understanding you correctly that's basically the opposite of the Eckstein/Woodhead thing, and equally silly.
I've long since accused this board of protecting certain races versus others when it comes to moderating. So every time someone says "too white" it's stuck out to me.

I'd say search for it but this board's search function is about as useful as a Plumlee on a fastbreak.

it's like some reverse Jimmy the Greek mantra that has taken hold.

Too White = Too slow, unathletic, only good for free throws and 3 pointers...and occasionally taking a foul.

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.
Recruit another Gerald Henderson or dahntay jones. We can hate the black jackasses as much as the white ones. :)
Wouldn't Corey Maggette just about cover Duke for a good long while?

 
It's not that people hate white players it's how the white players play is why a lot of them are hated so much. The tough, scrappy, clutching and grabbing, taking a lot of charges is what turns people off. I'm a WI fan so I've cheered for my fair share of white guys...lol. This years team for example I think most everyone likes Kaminsky and Dekker because they are skilled and pretty to watch. Same with Koenig, though he's part native American. Gasser on the other hand, while loved by Badger fans, is pretty much hated throughout the Big 10 because he's pesky and scrappy and some would say a dirty player. Most of those hated white Dukies player are like that...some much more skilled than Gasser but they are a scrappy gritty bunch which oddly turns a lot of people off.

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hatedIts tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley
Speaking of these guys made me think of Gregg Doyel calling out Kryzewskihttp://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/06/Sports/Writer_s_exchange_wit.shtml
Stomp has always been an exaggeration. He put his foot down on him...sending a message. He didn't even put pressure on it.Not that he shouldn't have been thrown out for it or at the very least personal foul.

 
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It's not that people hate white players it's how the white players play is why a lot of them are hated so much. The tough, scrappy, clutching and grabbing, taking a lot of charges is what turns people off. I'm a WI fan so I've cheered for my fair share of white guys...lol. This years team for example I think most everyone likes Kaminsky and Dekker because they are skilled and pretty to watch. Same with Koenig, though he's part native American. Gasser on the other hand, while loved by Badger fans, is pretty much hated throughout the Big 10 because he's pesky and scrappy and some would say a dirty player. Most of those hated white Dukies player are like that...some much more skilled than Gasser but they are a scrappy gritty bunch which oddly turns a lot of people off.
I totally get that...the problem i have is when people coin it as being "too white".

Like someone could say, "Marshawn Lynch is just too black"...it'd cause a damn riot on this board.

It's the negative connotation put out there by labeling something a particular race that's wrong.

But back to the Laettner thing...there was definitely racial factors in that hate...I don't think anyone can deny that.

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hatedIts tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley
Speaking of these guys made me think of Gregg Doyel calling out Kryzewskihttp://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/06/Sports/Writer_s_exchange_wit.shtml
Stomp has always been an exaggeration. He put his foot down on him...sending a message. He didn't even put pressure on it.Not that he shouldn't have been thrown out for it or at the very least personal foul.
He got a technical.

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hatedIts tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley
Speaking of these guys made me think of Gregg Doyel calling out Kryzewskihttp://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/06/Sports/Writer_s_exchange_wit.shtml
Stomp has always been an exaggeration. He put his foot down on him...sending a message. He didn't even put pressure on it.Not that he shouldn't have been thrown out for it or at the very least personal foul.
He got a technical.
Ah...then I'm good.

Still...he should've probably been tossed but they were allowing some physicality.

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hatedIts tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley
Speaking of these guys made me think of Gregg Doyel calling out Kryzewskihttp://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/06/Sports/Writer_s_exchange_wit.shtml
Stomp has always been an exaggeration. He put his foot down on him...sending a message. He didn't even put pressure on it.Not that he shouldn't have been thrown out for it or at the very least personal foul.
Wait, don't tell me you've bought into this well-perpetuated myth that Laettner wasn't punished? He got whistled for a technical. Maybe I misunderstood you.

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hatedIts tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley
Speaking of these guys made me think of Gregg Doyel calling out Kryzewskihttp://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/06/Sports/Writer_s_exchange_wit.shtml
Stomp has always been an exaggeration. He put his foot down on him...sending a message. He didn't even put pressure on it.Not that he shouldn't have been thrown out for it or at the very least personal foul.
Wait, don't tell me you've bought into this well-perpetuated myth that Laettner wasn't punished? He got whistled for a technical. Maybe I misunderstood you.
I thought the myth was that Timerlake got t-ed up?

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hatedIts tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley
Speaking of these guys made me think of Gregg Doyel calling out Kryzewskihttp://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/06/Sports/Writer_s_exchange_wit.shtml
Stomp has always been an exaggeration. He put his foot down on him...sending a message. He didn't even put pressure on it.Not that he shouldn't have been thrown out for it or at the very least personal foul.
Wait, don't tell me you've bought into this well-perpetuated myth that Laettner wasn't punished? He got whistled for a technical. Maybe I misunderstood you.
Misspoke and honestly forgot.

As soon as I posted...I saw it in my head and can even remember Aminu clapping.

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.
That's the players, not the fans.

The "whiteness" the fans are hating on is IMO a reaction to Duke's team wrongly being assumed to have certain attributes that sometimes are associated with whiteness- "smart" players, hard workers, tough/gritty, etc. You could put a pro-Duke **** Vitale screed next to an article about Danny Woodhead or David Eckstein and it would be hard to tell them apart. Then you add the false assumption that they're all good students too- another "white" trait- and it's a recipe for resentment.

My favorite counterexample is Brandon Knight. Knight was a brilliant student ... but he was also a Kentucky one and done. If you google "brandon knight academics" the results are so sparse that the only national stories I found on it were one from when he was a recruit and one from this year where he's reviewing Calipari's recruiting report on him. I don't remember any announcer mentioning it when he was at Kentucky- I'm sure someone did but it wasn't a big topic of conversation. Most people don't even know about it. Compare that to what people say about the Duke kids, regardless of accuracy. They were almost always praised as "well-rounded kids" or something similar by the media.

That's not Duke's fault except to the extent their fans do it (not much, at least not recently), but that's a huge factor in the resentment and is connected to the "whiteness" thing IMO.
Agree with this.

 
Is Grant Hill the most liked Duke player? I've always "disliked" Duke mostly because of the bandwagon fans, but liked Grant Hill.

Was Tyler Hansbrough hated? I always thought he would be hated more if he played for Duke.
I think that graphic showed a Latener-Hansbrough final for most hatedIts tough to be a good tall white guy in the ncaa. I wonder why there wasnt more hate for Sean Bradley
Speaking of these guys made me think of Gregg Doyel calling out Kryzewskihttp://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/06/Sports/Writer_s_exchange_wit.shtml
Stomp has always been an exaggeration. He put his foot down on him...sending a message. He didn't even put pressure on it.Not that he shouldn't have been thrown out for it or at the very least personal foul.
Wait, don't tell me you've bought into this well-perpetuated myth that Laettner wasn't punished? He got whistled for a technical. Maybe I misunderstood you.
Misspoke and honestly forgot.

As soon as I posted...I saw it in my head and can even remember Aminu clapping.
:) There you go. There was some crusade on college basketball forums in the early days of the Internet, say around 1994-2000, to convince everyone that Laettner had not been whistled for anything as a result of the play. And it worked; people still believe that.

 
I am imagining a Sociology class at some college 150 years from now having a field day with this "white folks hating white Duke players" phenomenon from the late 20th/early 21st century. Many possible components have already been mentioned. I'm sure there are others ("see, I'm not racist - I hate white players too" and some encoded self-loathing may be among them).

Laettner was easy to dislike even without the Dr Phil ####. He seemed to want you to hate him and seemed to thrive on it.

Ferry & Hurley were fairly easy, too. Ferry WAS a smug, rich punk who played dirty (dirtier than Laettner). Hurley's hatred wasn't really his fault - he couldn't help he was from Jersey (& talked like it), that announcers told us every other second that he "plays like a coach's son!", and that some of Laettner's stink rolled off onto him.

Wojo & Collins weren't in the same stratosphere as the 3 above as either players or pr!cks, but the Force was strong then and got tainted by what had come just before.

Now, Redick deserves some of his bad rep. I don't think he earned most of it, but he also played to it (as did Vasquez at MD a few years later).

Guys like Singler & Sheyer caught the residuals, but no one talks about them like they do the guys from a decade or two or three ago.

Coach K gets most of it nowadays.

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.
There is a race component to it, but it doesn't necessarily imply racist undertones. Some of the white on white hate can be explained by jealousy, particularly when the athlete is physically unimpressive and the white fan can relate to him in that regard. In the case of the scrappy white player, It's part resentment for the media going overboard in their praise of the player's high basketball IQ, work ethic, leadership, etc. It's also more socially acceptable to rip on white players, as accusations of racism are less likely to surface - and such fans may simply be choosing to not be as vocal or vicious about their dislike for athletes who happen to be black. Not so long ago Patrick Ewing endured racist taunts, signs, and acts (including having a banana thrown at him) while at Georgetown; while it was chastised then, the vitriol that would arise today in such a situation with the internet in full force would be on a different level, and fans know that.

Redick is an interesting case - he was cocky and played to the crowd in college, but displays little of that in the NBA. That he is not anywhere near as good as he was in college obviously puts a limit on what he can get away with. But, from a Grantland article:

“I think I created this persona on the court to deal with the antics of the other crowd, to kind of combat that,” Redick says. “It’s not who I was. It was never who I was. I look back on that, especially my first two years, and I probably deserved a lot of the animosity.”

Redick acknowledges that if he’d distanced himself from the character, some of the hatred may have dissipated. There was one problem with that, though. He started to like it. “I embraced it, for sure,” Redick says.
Brian Bosworth admitted similar feelings regarding "The Boz" in his 30 for 30. Laettner seems to be much more of an ### than Redick, but I have little doubt that playing the role, whether forced to or desired to, contributed to his college persona. Cause and effect in the relationship between college fans and young, and often immature players, with the media intertwined, can cause lines between reality and an act to become blurred.

 
Finally watched the Bo Jackson one earlier tonight. For some reason, my 10-year old daughter was really in to it.

Why exactly was Chuck Klosterman so heavily featured among those commenting?

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).

Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.
Line starts here gents.

 
Do people actually hate Duke for being white? Thought it was more for being cocky, flopping, d bag types and that they were winning all the time.
There definitely was some racial components to it during Laettner's run. You had the Fab Five in stark contrast to them and UNLV (who I personally think should get more credit for bringing hip hop culture and flair to the game before the Fab Five...but to hear Jalen tell it...they're basically the reason America listens to hip hop now).

Just watch that 30 for 30 with Jalen and tell me there wasn't a racial aspect to it?

Now though...it's just established to hate Duke.

But funny enough...if you look closely on this board...you'll see those same guys who typically hate Duke say, "I don't hate this group of current players as much as teams of the past." Maybe it's just coincidence that all the starters are black currently.

I'm anxious to see how those same guys respond when Grayson Allen is starting.
Line starts here gents.
Grayson was money coming off the bench with Duke down 9 and Okafor & Winslow on the bench in foul trouble. He really lit a spark and kept Duke in the game both emotionally and on the scoreboard.

Can you imagine their mindset if they were still trailing by 9 (or even more) when Okafor came back in and picked up #4 after about 30 seconds on the court?

 
Not sure if this was mentioned somewhere in here, but "Sole Man" premieres on Thursday, April 16, chronicling Sonny Vaccaro and his whole empire and rise and fall.

 
Not sure if this was mentioned somewhere in here, but "Sole Man" premieres on Thursday, April 16, chronicling Sonny Vaccaro and his whole empire and rise and fall.
:confused:

I saw it about 5 months ago.
do you have quantum leaping abilities?

Grantland says: Sole Man will make its prime-time television debut on Thursday, April 16, at 9 p.m. ET on ESPN.

Maybe it was released on some other platform?

 
Dunno what to tell ya. I saw it. It's got these stupid little cartoon pop-ups through the whole thing, but it was pretty interesting.

 
Not sure if this was mentioned somewhere in here, but "Sole Man" premieres on Thursday, April 16, chronicling Sonny Vaccaro and his whole empire and rise and fall.
:confused:

I saw it about 5 months ago.
do you have quantum leaping abilities?

Grantland says: Sole Man will make its prime-time television debut on Thursday, April 16, at 9 p.m. ET on ESPN.

Maybe it was released on some other platform?
It's available in parts online.

 

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