Ethics question (1 Viewer)

[bostonfred]

Let's say that there's a fantasy league where you draft before the NFL draft, and in fact, well before the NFL schedule is released. Let's also say that the commissioner of your league has been very vocal about people getting their picks in on time, both this year and in the past. To that end, he's actively contacted people to try to get their picks in on time, even before their clock expires, especially during the day when more people are online.

Now let's say that the commissioner's pick comes up this morning, and he decides to use his full eight hour clock so that he can see the NFL schedule when it comes out.

The last pick that was made yesterday was at 5:40 PM. Said commissioner then waited for over six hours to make his pick. Both of the people between his picks online picked within an hour. Then he delayed more than fourteen hours until almost 2:30 to make his pick. All told, it was almost 21 hours of waiting for this one individual. We have an eight hour clock in this league, but the clock is turned off overnight.

This is fully legal. The question is, is this an ethical move?

PS - there are actually five drafts going on simultaneously. Only one saw somebody delay the draft for even two hours, and that one happened to delay it by closer to 21 hours.

 

[twitch]

Let's say that there's a fantasy league where you draft before the NFL draft, and in fact, well before the NFL schedule is released. Let's also say that the commissioner of your league has been very vocal about people getting their picks in on time, both this year and in the past. To that end, he's actively contacted people to try to get their picks in on time, even before their clock expires, especially during the day when more people are online.Now let's say that the commissioner's pick comes up this morning, and he decides to use his full eight hour clock so that he can see the NFL schedule when it comes out. This is fully legal. The question is, is this an ethical move?

Most anything that's legal is ethical in fantasy football, imo. Them's the breaks.

 

[Captain_Apocalypse]

Doesn't seem like there is anything wrong with it unless he scheduled it so the schedule would come out when it was his pick. It seems like he didn't know when the schedule would come out and since it was his pick he wanted to wait to get the most benefit out of it. It was the smart thing to do, anybody would have done it. IMO. I voted yes it's ethical, but thats with the stipulation that he didn't know when the schedule would be released.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Let's say that there's a fantasy league where you draft before the NFL draft, and in fact, well before the NFL schedule is released. Let's also say that the commissioner of your league has been very vocal about people getting their picks in on time, both this year and in the past. To that end, he's actively contacted people to try to get their picks in on time, even before their clock expires, especially during the day when more people are online.Now let's say that the commissioner's pick comes up this morning, and he decides to use his full eight hour clock so that he can see the NFL schedule when it comes out. This is fully legal. The question is, is this an ethical move?

Does the rest of the league get to see the schedule after he picks, but he doesn't?If he doesn't take the time and use the rules, isn't he putting himself at a decided disadvantage by NOT waiting?

 

[bostonfred]

Let's say that there's a fantasy league where you draft before the NFL draft, and in fact, well before the NFL schedule is released. Let's also say that the commissioner of your league has been very vocal about people getting their picks in on time, both this year and in the past. To that end, he's actively contacted people to try to get their picks in on time, even before their clock expires, especially during the day when more people are online.Now let's say that the commissioner's pick comes up this morning, and he decides to use his full eight hour clock so that he can see the NFL schedule when it comes out. This is fully legal. The question is, is this an ethical move?

Does the rest of the league get to see the schedule after he picks, but he doesn't?If he doesn't take the time and use the rules, isn't he putting himself at a decided disadvantage by NOT waiting?

Excellent question. Let's assume that several people had already made their picks that round, and that he's the only one who decided to delay the draft. Let's also assume that it was over fourteen hours before he made his pick, and that as a result, only two picks got made during that business day.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Let's say that there's a fantasy league where you draft before the NFL draft, and in fact, well before the NFL schedule is released. Let's also say that the commissioner of your league has been very vocal about people getting their picks in on time, both this year and in the past. To that end, he's actively contacted people to try to get their picks in on time, even before their clock expires, especially during the day when more people are online.Now let's say that the commissioner's pick comes up this morning, and he decides to use his full eight hour clock so that he can see the NFL schedule when it comes out. This is fully legal. The question is, is this an ethical move?

Does the rest of the league get to see the schedule after he picks, but he doesn't?If he doesn't take the time and use the rules, isn't he putting himself at a decided disadvantage by NOT waiting?

Excellent question. Let's assume that several people had already made their picks that round, and that he's the only one who decided to delay the draft. Let's also assume that it was over fourteen hours before he made his pick, and that as a result, only two picks got made during that business day.

How many is several? Does that matter?Was he the only one that milked a clock, or could the others have?Maybe a better question is if they should have as well. To me everything is part of strategy and if he didn't violate any rules, I don't see a problem with it. It seems that you do.

 

[BassNBrew]

A loser leaves town bra and panty steel cage match should resolve this.

 

[bostonfred]

Let's say that there's a fantasy league where you draft before the NFL draft, and in fact, well before the NFL schedule is released. Let's also say that the commissioner of your league has been very vocal about people getting their picks in on time, both this year and in the past. To that end, he's actively contacted people to try to get their picks in on time, even before their clock expires, especially during the day when more people are online.Now let's say that the commissioner's pick comes up this morning, and he decides to use his full eight hour clock so that he can see the NFL schedule when it comes out. This is fully legal. The question is, is this an ethical move?

Does the rest of the league get to see the schedule after he picks, but he doesn't?If he doesn't take the time and use the rules, isn't he putting himself at a decided disadvantage by NOT waiting?

Excellent question. Let's assume that several people had already made their picks that round, and that he's the only one who decided to delay the draft. Let's also assume that it was over fourteen hours before he made his pick, and that as a result, only two picks got made during that business day.

How many is several? Does that matter?Was he the only one that milked a clock, or could the others have?Maybe a better question is if they should have as well. To me everything is part of strategy and if he didn't violate any rules, I don't see a problem with it. It seems that you do.

More good questions. I see you're very interested in this topic. That's great!Several was everyone who had drafted before him that round. He was the only one who milked a clock. He had the 1.3 pick, so there were two people (four picks) between his picks. For those taking it into consideration, he mysteriously milked it the night before, taking six hours and seventeen minutes to make his pick. It's entirely possible that this was a coincidence, but after he admitted that he was delaying the draft for his picks today, it sure seems like he was guaranteeing that he would be able to do this.

 

[bostonfred]

Doesn't seem like there is anything wrong with it unless he scheduled it so the schedule would come out when it was his pick. It seems like he didn't know when the schedule would come out and since it was his pick he wanted to wait to get the most benefit out of it. It was the smart thing to do, anybody would have done it. IMO. I voted yes it's ethical, but thats with the stipulation that he didn't know when the schedule would be released.

Great question. The last pick that was made yesterday was at 5:40 PM. Said commissioner then waited for over six hours to make his pick. Both of the people between his picks online picked within an hour. Then he delayed more than fourteen hours until almost 2:30 to make his pick. All told, it was almost 21 hours of waiting for this one individual. I'll add this tidbit to the original post.

 

[Fullback Fro]

A clock exists for a reason. If you have a problem with his moves shorten the clock. He did no wrong and he actually did a wise thing to get more info.

 

[FUBAR]

Doesn't seem like there is anything wrong with it unless he scheduled it so the schedule would come out when it was his pick. It seems like he didn't know when the schedule would come out and since it was his pick he wanted to wait to get the most benefit out of it. It was the smart thing to do, anybody would have done it. IMO. I voted yes it's ethical, but thats with the stipulation that he didn't know when the schedule would be released.

Great question. The last pick that was made yesterday was at 5:40 PM. Said commissioner then waited for over six hours to make his pick. Both of the people between his picks online picked within an hour. Then he delayed more than fourteen hours until almost 2:30 to make his pick. All told, it was almost 21 hours of waiting for this one individual. I'll add this tidbit to the original post.

You should protest and resign.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Ethical, yes. Winning friends? Not so much.

 

[Couch Potato]

I have always wished MFL would have a function that allows a team not only a max time per pick, but overall too.

For example, a 12 or 24 hour per pick max like most leagues have, but that amount of time is really there for some unavoidable problem (real life emergency, computer craps out, whatever). So, in addition, the team has -- for example in a 20 round draft -- a total cap of 60 hours, or an average of 3 hours per pick. This would keep drafts moving, allowing for unforeseen glitches, but if a guy begins to be a problem he ends up running out of time and has to make later picks with little or no clock. The pre-draft function would be used a lot more, and that would be a good thing.

 

[Road Warriors]

A loser leaves town bra and panty steel cage match should resolve this.

 

[John Mamula]

Let's say that there's a fantasy league where you draft before the NFL draft, and in fact, well before the NFL schedule is released. Let's also say that the commissioner of your league has been very vocal about people getting their picks in on time, both this year and in the past. To that end, he's actively contacted people to try to get their picks in on time, even before their clock expires, especially during the day when more people are online.Now let's say that the commissioner's pick comes up this morning, and he decides to use his full eight hour clock so that he can see the NFL schedule when it comes out. This is fully legal. The question is, is this an ethical move?

Does the rest of the league get to see the schedule after he picks, but he doesn't?If he doesn't take the time and use the rules, isn't he putting himself at a decided disadvantage by NOT waiting?

Excellent question. Let's assume that several people had already made their picks that round, and that he's the only one who decided to delay the draft. Let's also assume that it was over fourteen hours before he made his pick, and that as a result, only two picks got made during that business day.

How many is several? Does that matter?Was he the only one that milked a clock, or could the others have?Maybe a better question is if they should have as well. To me everything is part of strategy and if he didn't violate any rules, I don't see a problem with it. It seems that you do.

More good questions. I see you're very interested in this topic. That's great!Several was everyone who had drafted before him that round. He was the only one who milked a clock. He had the 1.3 pick, so there were two people (four picks) between his picks. For those taking it into consideration, he mysteriously milked it the night before, taking six hours and seventeen minutes to make his pick. It's entirely possible that this was a coincidence, but after he admitted that he was delaying the draft for his picks today, it sure seems like he was guaranteeing that he would be able to do this.

This is definitely a #### move.However the good news for the rest of the league is that people who think finding out the schedule for their 11th round pick typically will be having a great season before Halloween.What really makes this bad is that he was the commish. As commish you need to hold yourself to a higher standard and after this move he has absolutely NO right to bother anyone about taking long for picks.If I was in this league, I would likely max out the timer on every one of my subsequent picks and encourage a couple others to do the same as a form of protest and tell the commish to $TFU if he had a problem with it.

 

[Holland Freeze]

I voted other.

Is the draft held early to avoid having selections being made without the benefit of knowing what the NFL selections and schedule are? If so shouldn't the draft be scheduled far enough in advance to insure it is completed before the schedule is released?

I am not clear on the reference about this commish having 2 picks. If he held off on his 1st pick until the schedule was released why was there an additional delay for his next pick?

This commish appears to have a history of following up and letting others know when they are up - was anyone doing the same for him or is this a concern developed after the fact when the result was noticed? Not sure if the answer to that question is relevant beyond possibly putting the complaint into context. Keeping others informed of the status of the draft when their pick is up or pending is something I would typically consider a positive for a commish - you did not make clear if there was more to this notification (harassment, brow beating...) if there is not it moves it more into what appears to be the popular concensus that he did nothing wrong. If he is creating a double standard for others and himself then whether allowed by the rules or not it is leaning more towards being unethical.

 

[KSkid]

I can't really say it's unethical, but I do think you tell him to go to hell next time he pressures you to make your pick faster.

 

[FUBAR]

If I was in this league, I would likely max out the timer on every one of my subsequent picks and encourage a couple others to do the same as a form of protest and tell the commish to $TFU if he had a problem with it.

The only problem with this is the other 10-14 people in the league. Many of which presumably won't like waiting up to 10 days between picks. Taken to the extreme, this absolutely kills the draft.

 

[qazqaz11]

Let's say that there's a fantasy league where you draft before the NFL draft, and in fact, well before the NFL schedule is released. Let's also say that the commissioner of your league has been very vocal about people getting their picks in on time, both this year and in the past. To that end, he's actively contacted people to try to get their picks in on time, even before their clock expires, especially during the day when more people are online.Now let's say that the commissioner's pick comes up this morning, and he decides to use his full eight hour clock so that he can see the NFL schedule when it comes out. This is fully legal. The question is, is this an ethical move?

Does the rest of the league get to see the schedule after he picks, but he doesn't?If he doesn't take the time and use the rules, isn't he putting himself at a decided disadvantage by NOT waiting?

If this individual was drafting on one of the ends of the draft and made one pick to end the round and then announced that he would then take the remainder of his 8 hr. before he made his 1st pick of the following round, then I would have no problem with what he did. If what he did occurred during the round, then what he did was legal but highly unethical. The people who drafted ahead of this person followed the spirit of the rule and made their picks in a timely manner. This person took advantage of them by following the letter of the law and using his full 8hr clock thereby giving himself a decided advantage over them for that round.The 8 hr clock was designed to accommodate drafters in different time zones with different working hours and varying degrees of access to computers. This person found a whole new use for the 8 hr clock. The fact that this draft had no rule covering this scenario just shows that apparently everyone else had followed the spirit of the rules. I can only assume that they will now have to make a new rule to cover this situation. It would be fitting if they named the rule after this individual.

 

[massraider]

I can't really say it's unethical, but I do think you tell him to go to hell next time he pressures you to make your pick faster.

I agree. And that's about as far as I am willing to go.The league has a timer, he made his pick before the timer expired.

If the schedule is being released, and the information might be helpful to me, I'd take my time too.

Every team behind him benefited by the schedule release info (potentially). But he shouldn't, because he previously tried to keep the draft moving (like any good commish should)?

I personally think this is a very petty thing to get riled up about, and it certainly isn't unethical. It' annoying, at worst.

 

[Blue-Kun]

Rules allow 8 hours, he didn't time out and I have no issue with it.

This comes from someone who has shipped lists for like 6-7 of his last picks as to not be an annoyance to the draft queue. So if anything I should have a particular issue with it if the draft moved slower for 'milking it', but if it's only one or two picks I just fail to see the big deal.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I don't think it's a problem, legally or ethically. It's April. Who cares if the draft takes a little longer? It's not in person and there are several months before any games are being played. What's the rush?

I'd get much more annoyed if someone used their full two minutes every round of a live draft in late August than I would someone using several hours on the Internet in April.

 

[obxlegends]

The problem you run into is that someone was going to get benefit of having the schedules released during their pick. If it wasn't him it would be someone else. He played within the structure of the rules that all the owners agreed to in becoming owners in the league. In all honesty it's a brilliant tactical move. Well played.

 

[duece2626]

Sounds like to me he wanted everyone else to hurry with their picks so he could wait until the schedule comes out when he was OTC so he could milk it. Unethical? Probably not. Bush league? I'd say so. Especially coming from the commish.

 

[Tough As Nails]

Bush league. Makes himself look like a tool for pushing everybody else to make a pick.

 

[Zoomanji]

It has nothing to do with ethics.

But the guy is a hypocrite

 

[komments]

It's not unethical to use the whole clock. It is annoying and will result in hard feelings. But there is nothing wrong with using the clock - NFL teams do it all the time. This is one reason I love auctions - you never have these issues in an auction. People get their bids in on time or lose the player. Plus there is no luck involved in who gets the first pick. Every team has an equal chance at every player at the start of the auction.

I wrote an article about Ethics for my Fantasy University series several years ago - I didn't cover using the full clock. Perhaps I'll revisit that now.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Let's say that there's a fantasy league where you draft before the NFL draft, and in fact, well before the NFL schedule is released. Let's also say that the commissioner of your league has been very vocal about people getting their picks in on time, both this year and in the past. To that end, he's actively contacted people to try to get their picks in on time, even before their clock expires, especially during the day when more people are online.

Now let's say that the commissioner's pick comes up this morning, and he decides to use his full eight hour clock so that he can see the NFL schedule when it comes out. This is fully legal. The question is, is this an ethical move?

Does the rest of the league get to see the schedule after he picks, but he doesn't?If he doesn't take the time and use the rules, isn't he putting himself at a decided disadvantage by NOT waiting?

A decided disadvantage? Really?

For 1 pick?

For 1 pick, he would have to live with the DECIDED disadvantage of not knowing exactly when 1 team plays another team that looks like they might be good in 4 months. Or, likely more impactful, looks like they might be good in 8 months.

It's a petty thing to do. It's a petty thing to argue about. It's a ridiculous way of thinking you're gaining an advantage over everyone else. Yet somehow your response is more unbelievably annoying than what this guy actually did.

 

[renesauz]

surprised at the heat in here. Perhaps it should be further clarified that this occured relatively LATE in the draft, when everyone was looking at K's and D's.

Unethical is far too strong a word in this case. The OP is greatly over-reacting.

 

[Christo]

I can't really say it's unethical, but I do think you tell him to go to hell next time he pressures you to make your pick faster.

 

[John Mamula]

If I was in this league, I would likely max out the timer on every one of my subsequent picks and encourage a couple others to do the same as a form of protest and tell the commish to $TFU if he had a problem with it.

The only problem with this is the other 10-14 people in the league. Many of which presumably won't like waiting up to 10 days between picks. Taken to the extreme, this absolutely kills the draft.

Exactly.If it implodes the league, fine. Start up a new draft without the commish.

 

[Lash]

yes it's ethical

with one qualifier: as long as he posted somewhere on message boards that he was going to take his alotted full time so owners would know and not check in 15 times wondering

 

[John Mamula]

I voted "No, it's not ethical, and the fact that he tried to speed up other picks but took the max clock for his own advantage is shady."A competent commish holds himself to the same standard as others.A great commish holds himself to a higher standard than others.The commish in this case held himself to a much lower standard than others. If it's a free league, I'd mock the guy mercilessly pushing the SERIOUS BUSINESS envelope, and quote the time he spent on the clock for those picks after each loss.If it's a money league, I'd never be in a money league with that commish again. Commishes that put more effort into circumventing league rules than providing a level playing field are toolboxes, and not worth the trouble.

I assume this is a league bfred is in...is the Commish someone who posts here?

 

[John Mamula]

surprised at the heat in here. Perhaps it should be further clarified that this occured relatively LATE in the draft, when everyone was looking at K's and D's.Unethical is far too strong a word in this case. The OP is greatly over-reacting.

So if you're looking at Ks and Ds who the #### cares what the schedule is. Make your pick and move on.If it is some dbag owner, fine. But the commish? Pathetic.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

yes it's ethicalwith one qualifier: as long as he posted somewhere on message boards that he was going to take his alotted full time so owners would know and not check in 15 times wondering

Good sig!

 

[Mr Capicollo]

Let's say that there's a fantasy league where you draft before the NFL draft, and in fact, well before the NFL schedule is released. Let's also say that the commissioner of your league has been very vocal about people getting their picks in on time, both this year and in the past. To that end, he's actively contacted people to try to get their picks in on time, even before their clock expires, especially during the day when more people are online.Now let's say that the commissioner's pick comes up this morning, and he decides to use his full eight hour clock so that he can see the NFL schedule when it comes out. The last pick that was made yesterday was at 5:40 PM. Said commissioner then waited for over six hours to make his pick. Both of the people between his picks online picked within an hour. Then he delayed more than fourteen hours until almost 2:30 to make his pick. All told, it was almost 21 hours of waiting for this one individual. We have an eight hour clock in this league, but the clock is turned off overnight. This is fully legal. The question is, is this an ethical move?PS - there are actually five drafts going on simultaneously. Only one saw somebody delay the draft for even two hours, and that one happened to delay it by closer to 21 hours.

If I understand you correctly, people are on a draft clock, which means that they get the full time (eight hours?) to draft if that's what they want. If that's correct, he gets up to eight hours, no question. OTOH, it also means that you can tell him to F off the next time he tells you to hurry up when you've got more time on the clock. What stupid league holds its draft before the NFL draft anyway?

 

[obxlegends]

If I understand you correctly, people are on a draft clock, which means that they get the full time (eight hours?) to draft if that's what they want. If that's correct, he gets up to eight hours, no question. OTOH, it also means that you can tell him to F off the next time he tells you to hurry up when you've got more time on the clock.

What stupid league holds its draft before the NFL draft anyway? :X

 

[Bob Sacamano]

surprised at the heat in here. Perhaps it should be further clarified that this occured relatively LATE in the draft, when everyone was looking at K's and D's.Unethical is far too strong a word in this case. The OP is greatly over-reacting.

Commish?

 

[bostonfred]

surprised at the heat in here. Perhaps it should be further clarified that this occured relatively LATE in the draft, when everyone was looking at K's and D's.Unethical is far too strong a word in this case. The OP is greatly over-reacting.

From the poll:Yes, but only because it was late in the draft [ 0 ] [0.00%]

 

[Warhogs]

I did not read all the responses. The reason you set a clock is to keep things in control but you are within your rights to use the full clock. He is an ######## though if he calls others to hurry up and then uses his full allotment of time.

 

[obxlegends]

I did not read all the responses. The reason you set a clock is to keep things in control but you are within your rights to use the full clock. He is an ######## though if he calls others to hurry up and then uses his full allotment of time.

Or you could call that gamesmanship.

 

[Yitbos69]

don't hate the player.....hate the game

 

[FUBAR]

If I understand you correctly, people are on a draft clock, which means that they get the full time (eight hours?) to draft if that's what they want. If that's correct, he gets up to eight hours, no question. OTOH, it also means that you can tell him to F off the next time he tells you to hurry up when you've got more time on the clock.

What stupid league holds its draft before the NFL draft anyway?

maybe it's a free league, designed in part to help people prepare for other drafts?

 

[Road Warriors]

In a slow, offline draft, I have no issues with taking the time alloted, whether its for RL issues or to gain more information. Seems like a non-issue to me.

 

[Mr Capicollo]

If I understand you correctly, people are on a draft clock, which means that they get the full time (eight hours?) to draft if that's what they want. If that's correct, he gets up to eight hours, no question. OTOH, it also means that you can tell him to F off the next time he tells you to hurry up when you've got more time on the clock.

What stupid league holds its draft before the NFL draft anyway?

maybe it's a free league, designed in part to help people prepare for other drafts?

If so, then who cares?

 

[BassNBrew]

surprised at the heat in here. Perhaps it should be further clarified that this occured relatively LATE in the draft, when everyone was looking at K's and D's.Unethical is far too strong a word in this case. The OP is greatly over-reacting.

So if you're looking at Ks and Ds who the #### cares what the schedule is. Make your pick and move on.If it is some dbag owner, fine. But the commish? Pathetic.

It's a survivor league...best ball with no free agent pick ups. The reason someone would wait is to make sure their 2nd defense or kicker didn't share a bye week with the first and sticking you with a donut for that week. Anyone selecting after the schedule release would use that info to draft around any bye week conflicts.

 

[BassNBrew]

If I understand you correctly, people are on a draft clock, which means that they get the full time (eight hours?) to draft if that's what they want. If that's correct, he gets up to eight hours, no question. OTOH, it also means that you can tell him to F off the next time he tells you to hurry up when you've got more time on the clock.

What stupid league holds its draft before the NFL draft anyway?

maybe it's a free league, designed in part to help people prepare for other drafts?

If so, then who cares?

Worse yet...this is our second set of leagues this year. The first started before the Super Bowl was over.

 

[Killerclown]

so if he didn't rsuh the other teams picks he might not have had this option and that's probably whi he did rush the other teams picks.

 

[Blue-Kun]

so if he didn't rsuh the other teams picks he might not have had this option and that's probably whi he did rush the other teams picks.

Kidding right? People rushed other people so we could get the damn draft done. If anything had people been quicker this would be about like a 20th round pick and more of a non-issue.