Keith Lewis
Footballguy
If Marvin Harrison played, the Colts would have won.
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Everyone is thinking this, but I'm gonna say it! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Keith Lewis
- Start date
Fallerjw
Footballguy
I agree, but everybody isn't thinking this.Morehead's drop late in the game would have been caught by Harrison.
Yeah, right. He's been such a force this year.Oh, and they wouldn't have had to lean on Addai as much. Did you factor in Addai's numbers being different?
Ozymandias
Footballguy
If Sammy Morris hadn't been on IR, the Pats would have won by 7, and beat the spread.
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
were the Colts also missing their starting LT?
i love how marvin harrison has become the biggest scrub on earth in these parts. Its a complete joke how much people have written this guy off because he got hurt. It's pathetic. He's one of the best WR's to play, EVER. Jerry Rice played til he was 40. Marvin has plenty left in the tank. It's not his fault he got injured
Banger
Footballguy
so would the TD that Gonzalez dropped.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
How about if Manning hadn't fumbled the Colts would've won?
Nope. Harrison is usually pretty quiet in these Colts/Pats matchups. If you make all the same bad/questionable calls AND give me a healthy Harrison, AND Ugoh, AND Keiaho....yeah, we win by 2 scores. Ummm....that's a whole lot of "ifs". Better team (at the mid point of the regular season) won. Drop it.
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Banger
Footballguy
It's the typical microwave mentality of most FF'ers. That's fine by me because it allows me to pick up these "garbage players" year after year after year.....
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I think it would affect the game, but I would say they would have had a much better chance at winning if Ugoh had played than Harrison. Not having another WR, any WR, definitely hurt, but the most damaging plays in the 4th quarter that ended the Colt's chances to score were the result of the LT getting badly beaten.
Tau837
Footballguy
I think the positive to take away from the game for Indy is that they had a chance to win very late, despite playing without Ugoh and Harrison and having Gonzalez get hurt during the game.
That said, any claims that with Ugoh or Harrison they would have won are baseless... yes, perhaps Harrison wouldn't have dropped passes like those dropped yesterday, but the entire game would have been completely different... different playcalling and different results...
The Pats deserve a lot of credit for getting seriously challenged for the first time all season and coming back late to win.
I think the challenge to any team in stopping the Pats is to prevent the long pass plays. Indy had the 10 point lead, having basically prevented those plays up to that point, and in the blink of an eye - the 55 yard pass to Moss - the Pats had the momentum back and were within a FG.
That said, any claims that with Ugoh or Harrison they would have won are baseless... yes, perhaps Harrison wouldn't have dropped passes like those dropped yesterday, but the entire game would have been completely different... different playcalling and different results...
The Pats deserve a lot of credit for getting seriously challenged for the first time all season and coming back late to win.
I think the challenge to any team in stopping the Pats is to prevent the long pass plays. Indy had the 10 point lead, having basically prevented those plays up to that point, and in the blink of an eye - the 55 yard pass to Moss - the Pats had the momentum back and were within a FG.
Boston
Footballguy
Injuries are a fact of life in the NFL. If you can't overcome them it means your roster isn't deep enough. The Pats got burned last year when they couldn't overcome the injuries to Seau-Harrison-Wilson. The backups couldn't step up which was their own fault. In 2004 they were deep enough to beat Indy without Seymour and both starting CBs (Law and Poole).
If you think you're going to be playing football in November-December-January without key players missing you're living in a dreamworld. That's why those "minor" moves in the offseason that get little notice often are the difference between a championship and a first round playoff loss.
If you think you're going to be playing football in November-December-January without key players missing you're living in a dreamworld. That's why those "minor" moves in the offseason that get little notice often are the difference between a championship and a first round playoff loss.
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pollardsvision
Footballguy
sure that's possible, but if these 2 teams played 100 times, no team would win more than 60 of them. with these 2 teams, if "anything" happened differently, the result would be different.
(i do consider the colts missing marvin, but being at home with over a 100 yard edge in penalty yardage somewhat of a wash)
these teams are even. the pats ended up with more points on the board at the end of 60 min. yesterday.
(i do consider the colts missing marvin, but being at home with over a 100 yard edge in penalty yardage somewhat of a wash)
these teams are even. the pats ended up with more points on the board at the end of 60 min. yesterday.
NatronIsMean
Footballguy
I was thinking during the game: "If the Colts didn't get held to 6 points on 3 red zone trips early, it would have been a different game. However, Harrison would have been critical on those situations - the slant that was dropped by Gonzalez would have been caught by Harrison IMO.
Banger
Footballguy
Moss made all the difference in that game. Without him, there's no way NE wins that game. Every time Brady needed a play he went to his New Reliable. He was awesome.
daveandken
Footballguy
Heh, Pats fans whining about the refs even when they win.
Just wanted to add, I'm still waiting to see what happens when Moss or Welker get banged up. Losing Watson is a loss, but not a very big one, imo. Oh, and also want to get a look at the backup lineman on both sides of the ball for the Pats (if I'm not mistaken, depth at DL is good, but not-so-much on OL??) before we Denny Green 'em.Injuries WILL hit the Pats...just a matter of when and how hard.
Keith Lewis
Footballguy
Quiet? Guess it's in the eye of the beholder:10 games, 1011 yards, 10 TDS, If 100 + 1 TD average is quiet to you then that's your opinion, 100/1 per game is pretty big to me. In 2 of the last 3 games he played NE he scored 2 TDS twice.
Heh, Pats fans whining about the refs even when they win.
Reading of poster's name down?
munchkin
Footballguy
I was thinking that if Marvin played Samuel would have picked off a pass and returned it for a TD.....
Look, if he had played hurt it may have had an adverse affect on the game yesterday and on him long term. If you mean a healthy dangerous Marvin would have affected the game then that is a possibility. I am sure you would have liked to have gone into the game with all your horses but football doesn;t always work that way. It didn't in the 2006 championship game either.
Look, if he had played hurt it may have had an adverse affect on the game yesterday and on him long term. If you mean a healthy dangerous Marvin would have affected the game then that is a possibility. I am sure you would have liked to have gone into the game with all your horses but football doesn;t always work that way. It didn't in the 2006 championship game either.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Ignoring all the holding that wasn't called against the RT on at least 2 huge plays. The Moss PI was bad and they missed a PI over the middle. But they scored on the same drive as the Moss one so it's not like it affected it too much. The non-call wasn't going to be a game changing play eithrr as the Colts had a handle on the Pats O in the first half. The other PIs were borderline but an argument can be made for or against them. And don't forget they called PI on Brackett for the 55 yard Moss catch, the flag coming out before Moss hauled it in.Heh, Pats fans whining about the refs even when they win.
daveandken
Footballguy
What about 'eom' references a team?Heh, Pats fans whining about the refs even when they win.
Really? Maybe they will, maybe they won't.Just wanted to add, I'm still waiting to see what happens when Moss or Welker get banged up. Losing Watson is a loss, but not a very big one, imo. Oh, and also want to get a look at the backup lineman on both sides of the ball for the Pats (if I'm not mistaken, depth at DL is good, but not-so-much on OL??) before we Denny Green 'em.Injuries WILL hit the Pats...just a matter of when and how hard.
I guess I'm only looking at the last 7 (when the rivalry really started ratcheting up).6 72.7 .85 averages. He's had 2 really great games...and then quite a few stinkers:Quiet? Guess it's in the eye of the beholder:10 games, 1011 yards, 10 TDS, If 100 + 1 TD average is quiet to you then that's your opinion, 100/1 per game is pretty big to me. In 2 of the last 3 games he played NE he scored 2 TDS twice.
4 41 0
5 44 0
7 44 1
7 88 1
3 19 0
I wish drops were a kept stats. The DD does't track those does it? Anyway, just from memory I know if 03-05 especially Marvin just seemed to get popped early by Law/Harrison then just get the dropsies the rest of the game. Again, eye of the beholder is correct.
Huh? You quoted me (IndyHavoc)? I'm certainly not a Pat's fan...nor am I whining. Those calls were judgement calls, and I've definitely seen worse...but regardless, they were VERY "iffy." Anyone that doesn't agree is a blindWhat about 'eom' references a team?Heh, Pats fans whining about the refs even when they win.
.
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Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
"If" the referees hadn't so blatantly called phantom interference
penalties against the Patriots, the game would have been
a Patriots BLOWOUT win.
penalties against the Patriots, the game would have been
a Patriots BLOWOUT win.
daveandken
Footballguy
Sorry, just quoted you because you were the last to reference the refs. I realize you are not a Pats fan.BTW, I'm not a homer - I have no horse in this race. I didn't see any bad calls.Huh? You quoted me (IndyHavoc)? I'm certainly not a Pat's fan...nor am I whining. Those calls were judgement calls, and I've definitely seen worse...but regardless, they were VERY "iffy." Anyone that doesn't agree is a blindWhat about 'eom' references a team?Heh, Pats fans whining about the refs even when they win.
Maybe the Colts would have won with Marvin Harrison in there and maybe the Pats would have won the AFC Champoinship game last year with Rodney Harrison playing ... who knows, who cares at this point. Indy and Marvin will at least get a chance again this year except it will be on the road, not at home.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
parrot
Footballguy
You missed a heck of a game.Sorry, just quoted you because you were the last to reference the refs. I realize you are not a Pats fan.BTW, I'm not a homer - I have no horse in this race. I didn't see any bad calls.Huh? You quoted me (IndyHavoc)? I'm certainly not a Pat's fan...nor am I whining. Those calls were judgement calls, and I've definitely seen worse...but regardless, they were VERY "iffy." Anyone that doesn't agree is a blindWhat about 'eom' references a team?Heh, Pats fans whining about the refs even when they win.
Reading of poster's name down?
TheFanatic
Footballguy
The way I see it, if the Colts had Harrison, Gonzalez (he missed a good chunk of the game) and their lineman (Ugo?) they win. That being said, the only thing that really stopped the Pats were themselves. The bad penalties killed them. On O they looked like they were running a clinic. So, yeah if the Colts were healthy they win, but if the Pats hadn't given away so much yardage on penalties they win in a route.
ETA, I would bet that the lineman and Gonzales will be healthy the next time these two meet. Maybe Harrison too. That being said it will likely be in Foxborough and I doubt the Pats are as sloppy again.
ETA, I would bet that the lineman and Gonzales will be healthy the next time these two meet. Maybe Harrison too. That being said it will likely be in Foxborough and I doubt the Pats are as sloppy again.
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daveandken
Footballguy
Nah, saw the whole thing whistle to whistle. No emotional ties to the game though. I guess you had to be looking for bad calls to see them.
I wasn't thinking that either. Harrison hasn't been very effective this year. But those BS pass interference calls more than made up for whatever yardage Harrison would have gotten were he playing well.
parrot
Footballguy
You mean like Asante Samuel, who was looking at whether Moorehead's foot was in or out, apparently unlike the two officials who were in perfect position to make the call?Say what you want about the PI calls - I thought a couple were complete BS, but they are always judgment calls - but the play mentioned above was an inexcusably horrible call. It wasn't even close.
You play the game with the cards you're dealt. 
daveandken
Footballguy
Wasnt the Moorehead catch reversed?
And watching the replay, he had one foot in and one on the line. They correctly reversed it. But its not like it was an obvious blown call - a foot on the line is called incorrectly quite a bit without the advantage of instant replay and different camera angles. Besides, it wasn't a normal sideline play - his 2nd foot actually was in - it was the first foot that was slightly out. Refs were probably looking at the 2nd foot.Seems like you are showing your homer stripes - im just an impartial observer. Pats played a sloppy game and got called for it.I think its silly to suggest that Marvin would have won them the game. Buts its even more silly to complain about the refs when you win a close game. Its like the Pats fans are getting upset because they couldn't run up the score. Sad.
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
Don't sell yourself short. 60 easy!!
Well put.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
The NFL needs to take a close look at the officiating in the Patriots-Colts game, in which the Patriots were penalized 10 times for a franchise-record 146 yards. Not only were bad calls being made against the Patriots, such as Randy Moss’ apparent push-off in the endzone, but the Colts continually were NOT called for penalties, such as the block in the back by Colts WR Aaron Moorehead on Joseph Addai’s 73-yard scamper before the half. The Patriots looked like dominoes running over each other, as Rodney Harrison pushed Randall Gay in the back, knocking him to the ground, only to feel the same from a hell-bent Mike Vrabel in pursuit. But uncalled was Moorehead’s block in the back against Rashad Baker, who flew into Ellis Hobbs as Addai squeaked past everyone.(per PFW)http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Features/Scouts+Eye/2007/eye110507.htmHeh, Pats fans whining about the refs even when they win.
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AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
If Drew Bledsoe had never been injured the Pats would have lost. I know everyone is thinking it. I just said it. POW!!
parrot
Footballguy
Yeah it was reversed, on challenge, which would indicate to most people it was a bad call. You said you didn't see any bad calls. I was just providing you with a textbook example of a bad call. One that somehow a DB engaged in the play was able to accurately call but two different officials weren't. Quality "Pats fans" rant there though.Wasnt the Moorehead catch reversed?And watching the replay, he had one foot in and one on the line. They correctly reversed it. But its not like it was an obvious blown call - a foot on the line is called incorrectly quite a bit without the advantage of instant replay and different camera angles. Besides, it wasn't a normal sideline play - his 2nd foot actually was in - it was the first foot that was slightly out. Refs were probably looking at the 2nd foot.Seems like you are showing your homer stripes - im just an impartial observer. Pats played a sloppy game and got called for it.I think its silly to suggest that Marvin would have won them the game. Buts its even more silly to complain about the refs when you win a close game. Its like the Pats fans are getting upset because they couldn't run up the score. Sad.
