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I joined a league last year that works somewhat like this. The commish tweaks the scoring system every 3 years based on player data over that time and players don't get any points for catches or yards until they hit a minimum threshold.
I think this is the way to go. We had seven RB's score over the first WR. So, Melvin Gordon over Julio and Antonio Brown is kind of odd.
I fully agree about PPFD and I was with you on the second point until you said 3rd-round-reversal. I thought you were going to say auction. Then you covered your tracks with your "btw".
We have tried to do this however the bigger problem is that each year can vastly skew things due to league tendencies that make it hard to keep it stable. We tried to create a league (IDP) that would put each position equal with regards to tiers. So a top tier RB=QB=WR=DL=DB=K=etc. It is a never ending battle. We were able to get close but in some positions it made yearly scores similar but wildly inconsistent from game to game (you might get a DE score 20pts one game and 0 for the next three). So when looking at the overall score for the year the DL was similar to the QB but really they weren't equal in value because QB's were consistent scorers where DL was not.
Why shouldn't they be valued equally? This is a fake game that we are forever tweaking. I want to have all positions equal for FF purposes because it allows every owner to build their team the way they want to. It leads to more creativity and you don't get stuck with everyone doing the same thing. You also reward those that do their own research a little more because you can't just go get a standard cheat sheet to complete.
Those who want their FF to simulate the feel of a real football game aren't going to be aiming to balance things, and are going to be just fine with one position dominating the value early in the draft.
I have never seen a league yet that does that- to play just one QB and still have a league that captures the real life value of the QB? Never seen it. Have you?
I have actually. Typically by awarding points for completions minus penalties for incompletions, and by having substantial penalties for interceptions.
I do believe there are good and bad systems. Bad systems de-emphasize skill in favor of luck. This is done to try to keep the casual from quitting. In reality, the casual was always going to quit and by taking away the skill component you actually start driving away the hardcore players too. As a result, you might get a temporary boom in the industry from the change at best but then you get a permanent bust as people who want a skill game look elsewhere.
For our league, it was yes and no. We tried to build our scoring based on a positions importance to their team. So, like you pointed out, QB is the most important position on the field and they score the most points. Offensive lines, defensive lines and special teams are the next most important pieces, so they score the next highest. From there, all other positions (RB, WR, TE, LB and DB) score mostly equally. So, it looks something like this:
Yes. It's far from a perfect way to score. I do like it but I don't think it's the greatest thing ever.
We have it. We score the following statistics:
There is a sense among football fans, justified or not, that yards are harder to come by in tight situations. On 2nd and 11 the offense has lots of options and space to operate, and a 9 yard catch might actually be considered a success by the defense in forcing a third down. Still worth nine yards in fantasy, but nothing more.
The problem is that players aren't valued by the points they score, they're valued by the relative scarcity at their position of points scored over the baseline. That's why kickers aren't valuable despite scoring lots of points, and changing the scoring so kickers score more won't make them substantially more valuable. In my league last year, 43 of the top 50 scoring players were QB, K, or D, but that didn't make those positions valuable.
I”m assuming from your response it means what I thought in basically that Gurley did most of the heavy lifting but he walks away with less points than Goff in the first situation and possibly Goff and Higbee in the second because his part of getting that first down didn’t actually result in the “first down”....?
Yes. That's what I meant.
I agree that scarcity plays a roll but if the point levels are not equivalent it makes it an even bigger gap for relative positional values.
I think you know how that is scored. Gurley gets 0.9 points and Goff get 1.1 points or Higbee get 1.1 points in your second scenario. Sure, it seems a little unfair, but 3rd and 1 is a tough yard to get (I think we both know he's not running a QB sneak on 2nd and 1). Also, it is far much more likely that Gurley rushed twice for 4.5 yards each than a single 9 yard run. That's not bad, but I don't think two 4.5 yard runs really deserves an extra point.
It's definitely not for most of us, I believe.
I think the biggest "problem" is that people such as yourself want fantasy football scoring to match actual football scoring in terms of scarcity, skill required, and talent level.FF Ninja said:
Similarly, I think it is stupid to not question the status quo. Players are accumulating receptions and first downs. Why should we blindly keep tallying points for the receptions and not the first downs? Just as in life and business, it's always good to take a step back and think about how and why you are doing things. If the best answer you can come up with is "because it's the way we've always done it" then there's a solid chance you've got an opportunity to improve. So you can sit back lethargically and criticize people who are looking to improve or you can brainstorm ways to improve going forward. Your choice.
It's obvious that people fear change. I can't get my ####### leaguemates to axe kickers from the league.
You're pretty quick to drop things down to the insult level, no? Your post would be better received (maybe) if you stopped typing a little earlier.
Let's say you've been in a non-PPR dynasty league for 6 years. It's standard scoring with starting lineups of 1QB/1RB/3WR/1TE/2 FLEX. You've painstakingly built the team the way you like it.
If this kind of drastic scoring and line up change was going to happen in one of my dynasty leagues I’d want to draft all over again. Maybe play out current setup over next 2 seasons then throw all the players back in the pool and have a new startup draft.
That is not exactly what I was referring to. I was not alluding to changing starting lineup requirements. I was alluding to altering the scoring to make each position similar in scoring so that they are similar in value.
I know there are other factors and many of which are complicated. There is no way to make all positions completely equal but making similar tiered players at each position score the same amount of points (or as close as possible) is a step in the right direction.
It could very easily be a step in the wrong direction, because you don't really have any control over how many players are in each tier at each position. It sounds like what you want is basically that at any point in a hypothetical draft, it's equally viable to draft a QB or a RB or a WR or a K or whatever. You're not going to create that situation by changing the scoring.Gally said:
I think at least having the ability to flex up to 2 QB and flex up to 3 TE is a big step. But I also think if you are starting fewer than 11 players you are leaving way too much up to luck on a weekly basis. The more starters and the deeper your roster the more advantage a skilled FF player has imo.
I think another great adjustment to better reflect that Antonio Brown and Julio Jones are much, Much, MUCH more talented players than players like Melvin Gordon is to give some negative decimal point for every opportunity. If a guy gets 60 yards on 9 carries he had a better game than a guy that had 60 yards on 21 carries. Just like the first downs, and the 3RR drafting, it just seems obvious that more efficient players should get at least a SLIGHT bonus for producing as much or more on fewer opportunities. It doesn't even seem like a debatable point to me. If you are getting a bunch of opportunities you should be getting TD's/first downs/receptions/yards/whatever. If you are getting opportunities and not producing anything...... you are negatively impacting your team. Right?
Honest question: Should 1 yard be scored as more fantasy points than 1 first down?
