Fatal Midair collision between American Airlines jet and Army Helicopter (1 Viewer)

[fatness]

The Senate added more routes into Reagan National last year. The only 4 to vote against it were the Maryland and Virginia senators, because they heeded warnings the airport was already overcrowded (and presumably can drive home from Capitol Hill, rather than fly out of DCA)

I always feel like that place is an accident waiting to happen. My kid flies out of there to get back and forth to college but I think I’m not doing that anymore

I know nothing about aviation, but why does the senate have any say in how many routes there are into an airport?

Probably because they want a short commute from their flight in from Bozeman.

You're right.

"For years, the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority warned Congress that the region’s airports were at capacity, DeFazio said in an interview with POLITICO Magazine. But their pleas for restraint fell short among lawmakers, who voted to add more flights to an airport already struggling with its heavy load and a shortage of air traffic controllers caused by previous government shutdowns and pandemic-era hits to its workforce. “Every senator in particular wants a nonstop flight to and from wherever they live,” said DeFazio, an Oregon Democrat. He noted that a reauthorization of the Federal Aviation Administration passed last year added even more flights to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. “The airport said, ‘Don’t do it.’ And they did it. So they added to what DCA said is already an overly congested and over-capacity airport.”"

 

[BassNBrew]

Commentary from a pilot on the airport and changing runways.

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[belljr]

This is also is apparently Blackhawks are very tough to see above them

 

[Mr.Pack]

From a commercial pilot:
My heart is heavy and I’m praying for the friends and family of the 67 people who died last night in the crash at Reagan Airport. It was a terrible tragedy. Reagan is one of the most challenging airports in the world to fly into. Flying in there at night is even worse. Picking up conflicting traffic visually is pretty much impossible because of the lights of the city. TCAS, the electronic aid to alert you to the presence of other aircraft, is inhibited below 400 feet. Pilots are taught to use the radio chatter to aid in situational awareness, but the two accident aircraft were talking to the same control tower on different frequencies, and so could not hear each other. Changes may be coming, but don’t think that Congress will vote to close their ‘proprietary airport.’ They love the convenience too much.

 

[Manster]

Pilot, Co-Pilot plus a spotter on board the Blackhawk, how did they not see a commercial airplane coming?
3 soldiers were on board the Blackhawk, not to mention how busy this area is they were flying over
This is just awful

The video all over Twitter that shows the collision is quite startling. There is also a third plane flying above the crash that seems a bit closer than it should be (at least to my naive eyes) .

There's some speculation that, based on the audio between the helicopter and ATC, the pilot did have a visual on a plane but not the one they hit.

No way a helicopter should be flying across final approach path.

Sounds like the plane was where it sposed to be and the copter was not.

I'm with ya .......why is the military even flying anywhere near where commercial planes are approaching?

 

[fatness]

Changes may be coming, but don’t think that Congress will vote to close their ‘proprietary airport.’ They love the convenience too much.

I live fairly near DC and keep up a bit on their news. Congress pays less and less attention to Reagan Airport safety every year, and really only discusses it when they're up against one of their own self-made funding deadlines. And "I want this additional trip out of Reagan" becomes a bargaining chip to get a vote.

 

[Caveman33]

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This video shows an Army helicopter flying along the Potomac triggering 3 TCAS alarms within 3 minutes to 3 different airplanes that were attempting to land at DCA. This happened the day before the fatal accident. This helicopter was also maintaining visual separation. You can hear the alarms ringing in the commercial planes as they communicate with the tower. No one seems very concerned by the alarms. It sounds like a regular occurrence. On Reddit, many Army pilots are laying the blame at the feet of their leadership. It's apparently normal for these helicopter pilots to have less than 80 flying hours a year.

 

[Ilov80s]

The Senate added more routes into Reagan National last year. The only 4 to vote against it were the Maryland and Virginia senators, because they heeded warnings the airport was already overcrowded (and presumably can drive home from Capitol Hill, rather than fly out of DCA)

I always feel like that place is an accident waiting to happen. My kid flies out of there to get back and forth to college but I think I’m not doing that anymore

I know nothing about aviation, but why does the senate have any say in how many routes there are into an airport?

Probably because they want a short commute from their flight in from Bozeman.

You're right.

"For years, the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority warned Congress that the region’s airports were at capacity, DeFazio said in an interview with POLITICO Magazine. But their pleas for restraint fell short among lawmakers, who voted to add more flights to an airport already struggling with its heavy load and a shortage of air traffic controllers caused by previous government shutdowns and pandemic-era hits to its workforce. “Every senator in particular wants a nonstop flight to and from wherever they live,” said DeFazio, an Oregon Democrat. He noted that a reauthorization of the Federal Aviation Administration passed last year added even more flights to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. “The airport said, ‘Don’t do it.’ And they did it. So they added to what DCA said is already an overly congested and over-capacity airport.”"

This all seems like what we should not be posting here because it's even more political than what was here before. Bending it slightly away from that, it sure seems like selfishness and greed will continue to be the downfall of this country. Slowly but surely rotting out every part of our society and lives.

 

[FairWarning]

From a commercial pilot:
My heart is heavy and I’m praying for the friends and family of the 67 people who died last night in the crash at Reagan Airport. It was a terrible tragedy. Reagan is one of the most challenging airports in the world to fly into. Flying in there at night is even worse. Picking up conflicting traffic visually is pretty much impossible because of the lights of the city. TCAS, the electronic aid to alert you to the presence of other aircraft, is inhibited below 400 feet. Pilots are taught to use the radio chatter to aid in situational awareness, but the two accident aircraft were talking to the same control tower on different frequencies, and so could not hear each other. Changes may be coming, but don’t think that Congress will vote to close their ‘proprietary airport.’ They love the convenience too much.

What if they made that airport for government use only?

 

[the moops]

What if they made that airport for government use only?

Talk about government inefficiency

 

[dgreen]

IAD and BWI would need major expansions, renovations, and improvements to make closing DCA doable. As sad as this tragedy is, it’s not like this happens often. As challenging as this airport might be, we seem to have successfully done this for many years without problems. Let’s learn from this and improve, but I don’t see closing or designating DCA as government only as reasonable solutions.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

IAD and BWI would need major expansions, renovations, and improvements to make closing DCA doable. As sad as this tragedy is, it’s not like this happens often. As challenging as this airport might be, we seem to have successfully done this for many years without problems. Let’s learn from this and improve, but I don’t see closing or designating DCA as government only as reasonable solutions.

Agreed, though IAD is going through major expansions.

 

[fatness]

The third member of the helicopter crew that died has finally had her name released by the Army. RIP Cpt. Rebecca M. Lobach.
Hopefully the official release of her name will get online posters to stop misidentifying the wrong woman for....... reasons.

 

[fatness]

IAD and BWI would need major expansions, renovations, and improvements to make closing DCA doable. As sad as this tragedy is, it’s not like this happens often. As challenging as this airport might be, we seem to have successfully done this for many years without problems. Let’s learn from this and improve, but I don’t see closing or designating DCA as government only as reasonable solutions.

Reagan airport has reported problems with staffing and with too many flights for years and has been ignored, and the skill of the air traffic controllers is why it seems there have been few problems. But the threat of problems has steadily been increasing. I don't disagree with anything you've said; I just think we've been warned for years, and now there's a tragedy that may have been avoidable. I don't think air traffic controllers or decisionmakers at many other airports in the country would put up with what Reagan airport has to put up with in terms of intricate flight patterns, inadequate staffing, and Congressional interference.

 

[Instinctive]

IAD and BWI would need major expansions, renovations, and improvements to make closing DCA doable. As sad as this tragedy is, it’s not like this happens often. As challenging as this airport might be, we seem to have successfully done this for many years without problems. Let’s learn from this and improve, but I don’t see closing or designating DCA as government only as reasonable solutions.

Agreed, though IAD is going through major expansions.

I mean they would need to move thirty minutes closer to DC too.

 

[fatness]

The helicopter’s black box voice recorder has also been recovered with no signs of exterior damage, according to Inman.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

IAD and BWI would need major expansions, renovations, and improvements to make closing DCA doable. As sad as this tragedy is, it’s not like this happens often. As challenging as this airport might be, we seem to have successfully done this for many years without problems. Let’s learn from this and improve, but I don’t see closing or designating DCA as government only as reasonable solutions.

Agreed, though IAD is going through major expansions.

I mean they would need to move thirty minutes closer to DC too.

No. I live west of Dulles. It's already an hour & a half drive for me. This is all about ME and my selfishness

 

[Da Guru]

The firs thing I thought about when I heard this was Las Vegas Airport. Last year I stayed at the MGM on the top floor. The MGM is right by the airport and all day and night Helicopters doing tours were flying right by my hotel window and I watched them cross the runways and land. At times it looked like they were going under planes that were landing.

LV has non-stop flights coming in and out. Just seemed like way too much traffic at the end of the runways.

 

[Desert_Power]

The firs thing I thought about when I heard this was Las Vegas Airport. Last year I stayed at the MGM on the top floor. The MGM is right by the airport and all day and night Helicopters doing tours were flying right by my hotel window and I watched them cross the runways and land. At times it looked like they were going under planes that were landing.

LV has non-stop flights coming in and out. Just seemed like way too much traffic at the end of the runways.

That is essentially what was supposed to happen here right? If the helicopter were beneath the height it is supposed to be, it wouldn't have collided.

Something else to worry about when going to Vegas. Those flights in are windy enough.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

LV has non-stop flights coming in and out. Just seemed like way too much traffic at the end of the runways.

Yeah the whole thing makes me curious what other major airports have sketchy setups like DCA. I know MDW is supposed to have a tight steep approach that people don't particularly care for, but that could be for reasons other than dense traffic.

I've personally never liked the steep takeoffs out of LAX, which I think are done for noise reasons, but I assume those aren't actively dangerous. There's always that brief moment on those flights where the engines go from full roar to seemingly nothing that makes me jump.

 

[fatness]

Remains of all 67 victims of the midair collision near DC recovered as NTSB probes altitude data

Good. I'm glad the water's shallow there.

 

[PlayaHata]

NY Times video investigation with all we know so far

 

[belljr]

So apparently new report States the helicopter did not have their adsb transponder turned on. That's what we use for satellite tracking.

Yes contrary to belief. We actually have satellite-based tracking for our aircrafts.
Yes, our system definitely needs some upgrades but it's not running on 1985 technology either

 

[fatness]

"The FAA is slowing traffic into and out of Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport due to weather conditions and recovery efforts in the area," the FAA said in a statement to USA TODAY. The move was first reported by Reuters, which said that arrivals would be reduced from 28 per hour to 26 per hour during the slowdown.

Imagine 2 fewer flights per hour on the day of the crash.

 

[Dezbelief]

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/14/nx-s1-5297147/black-hawk-helicopter-american-airlines-collision-ntsb

 

[Dezbelief]

Altimeter in Black Hawk helicopter may have malfunctioned before DCA mid-air collision

NTSB chairwoman Jennifer Homendy said the collision between the helicopter and the "CRJ" airplane happened at 278 feet above the river. The helicopter was supposed to be no higher than 200 feet.

 

[belljr]

Adsb off. Wrong altimeter or malfunctioning altimeter.

Helo recording stating they were flying close to 400 ft

Allegedly wear night vision
Just a sad accident

 

[fatness]

Adsb off. Wrong altimeter or malfunctioning altimeter.

Aren't there 2 different altimeters on that helicopter? One that displays altitude above the ground below, and one that displays the altitude above sea level?

 

[Phil Elliott]

Altimeter in Black Hawk helicopter may have malfunctioned before DCA mid-air collision

NTSB chairwoman Jennifer Homendy said the collision between the helicopter and the "CRJ" airplane happened at 278 feet above the river. The helicopter was supposed to be no higher than 200 feet.

Even a 78 foot difference seems too close for final approach.

 

[BassNBrew]

Altimeter in Black Hawk helicopter may have malfunctioned before DCA mid-air collision

NTSB chairwoman Jennifer Homendy said the collision between the helicopter and the "CRJ" airplane happened at 278 feet above the river. The helicopter was supposed to be no higher than 200 feet.

Even a 78 foot difference seems too close for final approach.

500 ft is too freaking close

 

[BassNBrew]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/25/us/chicago-midway-airport-near-miss-planes/index.html

Near miss today.

 

[ChiefD]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/25/us/chicago-midway-airport-near-miss-planes/index.html

Near miss today.

Whoa. Glad the SWA pilot was paying attention.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/25/us/chicago-midway-airport-near-miss-planes/index.html

Near miss today.

Whoa. Glad the SWA pilot was paying attention.

Hope my mom isn't. She's a nervous flyer, is supposed to be flying here tonight, and I already had to talk her off the ledge wrt the recent accidents.

 

[The Gator]

My Link

 

[Cowboysfan8]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/25/us/chicago-midway-airport-near-miss-planes/index.html

Near miss today.

Damn

 

[belljr]

That pilot in the private business jet should probably lose his license

 

[the moops]

Read something and forgive me if am misremembering, but it was something like there are 1000 of these "near misses" a year. It's just that very few of them are filmed.

 

[BobbyLayne]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/25/us/chicago-midway-airport-near-miss-planes/index.html

Near miss today.

Whoa. Glad the SWA pilot was paying attention.

VASAviation - graphics with ATC

the SWA pilot was so chill

Southwest twenty....

"Southwest 2504 going around"

FLEXJET: how'd that happen?

Contact tower at 773-884-xxxx

 

[belljr]

Read something and forgive me if am misremembering, but it was something like there are 1000 of these "near misses" a year. It's just that very few of them are filmed.

A lot of events happen. There is new software recently to also alleviate some of those issues. Not normally this close

 

[The Z Machine]

That pilot in the private business jet should probably lose his license

probably???

 

[mr. furley]

Read something and forgive me if am misremembering, but it was something like there are 1000 of these "near misses" a year. It's just that very few of them are filmed.

US Civil Aviation Accident Dashboard: 2008-2023

www.ntsb.gov

1200 in 2023

 

[fatness]

Planes receive mysterious false midair collision alerts near Reagan National Airport

"The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating why multiple commercial flights about to land at Ronald Reagan National Airport, near Washington DC, repeatedly received midair collision alerts over the weekend when there were no other aircraft nearby. The alerts occurred only miles from the site of the deadly January 29 midair collision of American Eagle 5342 and a US Army Blackhawk helicopter.

Several flight crews reported the mystery alerts on their Traffic Collision Avoidance System, known as TCAS, on Saturday “indicating another aircraft was nearby when no other aircraft were in the area,” the FAA said in a statement on Monday."

 

[fatness]

The crash of an airline landing and a helicopter flying too high across its flight path has happened at least once a month for 13 years according to a preliminary study, and that there were over 15,000 close-proximity events from Oct. 2021 until 2024.
It's amazing and a tribute to both pilots and air traffic controllers that more collisions haven't happened.

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/11/nx-s1-5324543/ntsb-dca-mid-air-collision-american-black-hawk

"She says an NTSB analysis found that in a 13-year period from 2011 to 2024, there was at least one "close call" each month between a commercial plane operating at DCA and a helicopter. In over half those encounters, Homendy said, the helicopter was operating higher than it should have been, and two-thirds of the instances were at night.

The January crash happened at night, and the collision occurred at 278 feet. The helicopter was supposed to be flying no higher than 200 feet."
-------------------------

"The new NTSB analysis further determined that between October 2021 and December 2024, there were a total of 944,179 commercial operations at DCA. During that time, there were 15,214 "close-proximity events" between commercial airplanes and helicopters. Of those, 85 had a horizontal separation of less than 1,500 feet and were less than 200 feet apart vertically."