FDA proposes ban on menthol cigarettes and cigars (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/28/health/fda-menthol-cigarette-proposed-ban/index.html
 

My old libertarianism is coming out and it asks me, is this really the proper role of government? 
 

I lean no. But what do you guys think? 

 

[supermike80]

.

 

[timschochet]

Wow- according to the article, while 30% of all smokers use menthols, it’s 85% of black smokers, and a large portion of lgbtq community as well. 
 

I don’t think this is going to go over well…

 

[timschochet]

In terms of politics this seems like the perfect niche issue for Republicans to try to get blacks to leave the Democratic Party- “they’re trying to tell you what you can smoke!” 
It might work too. 

 

[sho nuff]

Wow- according to the article, while 30% of all smokers use menthols, it’s 85% of black smokers, and a large portion of lgbtq community as well. 
 

I don’t think this is going to go over well…

Its not…but the things are straight up awful.  Originally marketed as less harsh than others…the cooling effect on the throat making them seem that way and so on.  Just another awful thing developed by the tobacco companies to get people hooked and gear it (originally towards newer and younger smokers)
No idea why they caught on so much in the African American community.

 

[Desert_Power]

Obama tried to do similar around 2010 or so too I recall

 

[timschochet]

This is the sort of issue that makes people upset and makes them vote. I’m not a smoker so it doesn’t affect me, but menthol people are going to be pissed. 

 

[crackattack]

I'm a smoker and a menthol one at that. I'll just switch to non menthol.

But no, it's not the governments job. I'm an adult. I pay taxes. I pay my own insurance. They can butt out.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/28/health/fda-menthol-cigarette-proposed-ban/index.html
 

My old libertarianism is coming out and it asks me, is this really the proper role of government? 
 

I lean no. But what do you guys think? 

Hard no.

 

[squistion]

Its not…but the things are straight up awful.  Originally marketed as less harsh than others…the cooling effect on the throat making them seem that way and so on.  Just another awful thing developed by the tobacco companies to get people hooked and gear it (originally towards newer and younger smokers)
No idea why they caught on so much in the African American community.

I suspect the most popular brand being named KOOL had a lot to do with it...the marketing of the image and name (see Marlboro Man, Joe Camel) influence the brands people choose.

 

[FairWarning]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/28/health/fda-menthol-cigarette-proposed-ban/index.html
 

My old libertarianism is coming out and it asks me, is this really the proper role of government? 
 

I lean no. But what do you guys think? 

A lot of the flavored e-cigs were banned, would it be similar?

 

[FairWarning]

I suspect the most popular brand being named KOOL had a lot to do with...the marketing of the image and name (see Marlboro Man, Joe Camel) have a lot to do the brands people choose.

Are Newports still a thing?  I thought they were very popular in the inner cities.    

Marketing like Joe Cool was aimed toward kids.  It was a great campaign for Camel.

 

[Insein]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/28/health/fda-menthol-cigarette-proposed-ban/index.html
 

My old libertarianism is coming out and it asks me, is this really the proper role of government? 
 

I lean no. But what do you guys think? 

Shouldn't need to lean. The answer is no. Now if you wanted to be truly libertarian, you'd agree for all the rest to. Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin, all of it. As long as you're of legal age, drugs should not be illegal for consenting adults to use. 

 

[timschochet]

Shouldn't need to lean. The answer is no. Now if you wanted to be truly libertarian, you'd agree for all the rest to. Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin, all of it. As long as you're of legal age, drugs should not be illegal for consenting adults to use. 

Yeah I don’t know if I can get behind heroin, cocaine, etc. I think it’s OK for society to have a few guardrails- not that many, but some. 

 

[kface]

Shouldn't need to lean. The answer is no. Now if you wanted to be truly libertarian, you'd agree for all the rest to. Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin, all of it. As long as you're of legal age, drugs should not be illegal for consenting adults to use. 

This is the hypocrisy I'll never understand...free it all.  

 

[jm192]

Don't the Democrats (politicians) frequently argue that if a policy change disproportionately affects a single race then the policy is in fact racist?  

Does that apply here?

 

[timschochet]

Don't the Democrats (politicians) frequently argue that if a policy change disproportionately affects a single race then the policy is in fact racist?  

Does that apply here?

Yes. 
Frankly, unfortunately….yes. 

 

[dkp993]

Clearly a bad idea.  I see this as no different then NY trying to ban large sodas a few years ago.  

 

[Dickies]

Yeah I don’t know if I can get behind heroin, cocaine, etc. I think it’s OK for society to have a few guardrails- not that many, but some. 

Would you rather gangs and cartels control these substances at artificially inflated prices?

I'd rather regulate them via something resembling a pharmacy.  Funnel the tax proceeds back into treatment and recovery programs.

 

[jm192]

Dems sabotaging midterms as best they can.

 

[dkp993]

Dems sabotaging midterms as best they can.

It’s bigger then at unfortunately.  As I just posted in another thread…….

Cause and effect.  Unfortunately it seems we’re on a path to repeat that cycle just in reverse.  

But as I’ve said repeatedly around here, we’ve got no one else to blame here but ourselves. We have all the power yet act powerless, and worse then that we seem intent on acting against our own best interests.  It’s self destructive and self created honestly.  That’s the truly scary part.  

 

[unckeyherb]

Over reaching Government gonna do over-reaching government things.  This will dispropotionately effect black americans and is akin to basically telling them, "we don't think you can make decisions on your own.  We know better than you, so we will dictate what you can and cannot put in your bodies."  beyond offensive.  

This is the same government that is floating a Ministry of Truth.  Almost nothing these people touch is good for Americans.  

 

[Juxtatarot]

According to this Politico article, the reason the Congressional Black Caucus is divided over this is concern that law enforcement will use it as a tool to target black people.

I’m not sure I buy that. I’m sure some people would horde menthols at first, but I don’t think this is something we’ll have a long-term black market for.

 

[BladeRunner]

Not Kool at all.   

 

[BladeRunner]

According to this Politico article , the reason the Congressional Black Caucus is divided over this is concern that law enforcement will use it as a tool to target black people.

I’m not sure I buy that. I’m sure some people would horde menthols at first, but I don’t think this is something we’ll have a long-term black market for.

I hear they're having an emergency meeting in Winston-Salem to respond to this.

 

[dkp993]

Not Kool at all.   

Nice dad joke

 

[BladeRunner]

Does our VPOTUS Camela Harris have anything to say about this?

 

[sho nuff]

Don't the Democrats (politicians) frequently argue that if a policy change disproportionately affects a single race then the policy is in fact racist?  

Does that apply here?

I think if it negatively affects someone for the purpose of affecting that race.  Doing something that is for the general health, racist?  Seems a bad stretch.

And yes...its bad policy on its own face...but don't think this little gotcha works out well here.

 

[BladeRunner]

Maybe instead of outright banning them right away they should first give everyone a three Lucky Strikes and then you're out.

 

[jm192]

I think if it negatively affects someone for the purpose of affecting that race.  Doing something that is for the general health, racist?  Seems a bad stretch.

And yes...its bad policy on its own face...but don't think this little gotcha works out well here.

Respectfully, nope.  

Because all of the Voter ID acts have been deemed racist.  Because they make it harder for minority voters to vote.  And it didn't matter that that wasn't the intent.  The outcome is what mattered.  

I'm just going by what the Democrats have been telling me.  If the outcome negatively impacts the black community more than any other community--they would say it's racist. @timschochet even agrees, which is saying something because we're rarely ever on the same page.

The Democratic party has spent the last IDK how many years expanding the definition of what constitutes racism.  And this is exactly what happens when you go changing definitions for the sake of Identity politics.  You step in your own poo.

 

[sho nuff]

Respectfully, nope.  

Because all of the Voter ID acts have been deemed racist.  Because they make it harder for minority voters to vote.  And it didn't matter that that wasn't the intent.  The outcome is what mattered.  

I'm just going by what the Democrats have been telling me.  If the outcome negatively impacts the black community more than any other community--they would say it's racist. 

The Democratic party has spent the last IDK how many years expanding the definition of what constitutes racism.  And this is exactly what happens when you go changing definitions for the sake of Identity politics.  You step in your own poo.

The bolded is the point.  That is a negative...making it harder for minorities to vote on their own legislation (and yes, it is the intent of many of the voter laws that get put into place).

I don't agree with this cigarette thing...but if both the intent and outcome is better health...calling that racist is interesting.  How does better health negatively impact the black community?

This is a weak attempt at this gotcha and it only gets worse the more it goes it seems.

 

[Snotbubbles]

No need to outright ban menthol.  Just place a tax on it so prohibitive that people stop buying them.  In my area, Newports are $11 a pack.  Tax the crap out of it until it's $50 a pack.  

 

[timschochet]

Maybe instead of outright banning them right away they should give everyone a 3 Lucky Strikes and you're out instead.

Stick to your day job. 

 

[timschochet]

No need to outright ban menthol.  Just place a tax on it so prohibitive that people stop buying them.  In my area, Newports are $11 a pack.  Tax the crap out of it until it's $50 a pack.  

But again that would punish poor and minorities. Not a good idea IMO

 

[Snotbubbles]

But again that would punish poor and minorities. Not a good idea IMO

Put the tax on all cigarettes then.  I don't care.

 

[sho nuff]

No need to outright ban menthol.  Just place a tax on it so prohibitive that people stop buying them.  In my area, Newports are $11 a pack.  Tax the crap out of it until it's $50 a pack.  

Right...its absolutely nuts that someone would shell out that for a pack.

 

[BladeRunner]

Stick to your day job. 

I'm here 'till next Thursday, with shows at 7pm and 9pm.  Tickets on sale now!!!!

 

[jm192]

The bolded is the point.  That is a negative...making it harder for minorities to vote on their own legislation (and yes, it is the intent of many of the voter laws that get put into place).

I don't agree with this cigarette thing...but if both the intent and outcome is better health...calling that racist is interesting.  How does better health negatively impact the black community?

This is a weak attempt at this gotcha and it only gets worse the more it goes it seems.

It takes away a choice from those people.  People have been allowed to choose that type of cigarette for nearly 100 years.  And people can still choose to smoke.  They can choose to use marijuana.  They can choose to drink.  They can choose to eat as much sugar and grease as their hearts desire.  

But this choice is taken away.  And some people--a lot of people--see their ability to choose what they do/don't do for their health as a basic American principle.  They see losing that as a negative.

The black community doesn't need the government choosing what kind of cigarettes they smoke.  

Is it racist?  Not to most normal people.

Is it racist to the Democratic politicians?  By their own definitions, yes.  

 

[timschochet]

Put the tax on all cigarettes then.  I don't care.

I’m not necessarily opposed but right now inflation is a huge problem, and of course the tobacco industry employs a whole lot of people. Do we really want to do this? 

 

[timschochet]

There is also another problem whenever we talk about tobacco restrictions: we import this poison all over the world. We signed trade agreements for this specific purpose (like our agreement with Vietnam, to cite one example.) 

How does it look when we restrict our own people, for health concerns, yet make billions of revenue selling the same product around the world that is too dangerous for us to consume? 

 

[crackattack]

Legalizing Marijuana for adults across the country = ok. But we need to ban menthol cigarettes and cigars meant for adults. Lunacy.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Legalizing Marijuana for adults across the country = ok. But we need to ban menthol cigarettes and cigars meant for adults. Lunacy.

Certainly menthols are more dangerous.
 

 

[crackattack]

Certainly menthols are more dangerous.
 

I can't drive impaired on menthol cigarettes. I can't/don't smoke around other people. Not in my house. Not in my car. Only outside away from people. Is it more dangerous to me individually? Yes. So?? 

Is Marijuana not dangerous to the user and possibly others? Like impaired driving?

 

[Juxtatarot]

I can't drive impaired on menthol cigarettes. I can't/don't smoke around other people. Not in my house. Not in my car. Only outside away from people. Is it more dangerous to me individually? Yes. So?? 

Is Marijuana not dangerous to the user and possibly others? Like impaired driving?

There are laws against driving under the influence.

 

[dkp993]

But again that would punish poor and minorities. Not a good idea IMO

Actually it punishes the Menthol addict.  The person’s economic standing matters nothing in this regard.  This isn’t a basic need.  

 

[crackattack]

There are laws against driving under the influence.

Good thing! Cause it never happens! Also all kinds of laws about smoking.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Yes. 
Frankly, unfortunately….yes. 

Seems like a good decision for public health and not something racist. 

 

[Snotbubbles]

I’m not necessarily opposed but right now inflation is a huge problem, and of course the tobacco industry employs a whole lot of people. Do we really want to do this? 

Legalize marijuana, problem solved for big tobacco.  They're already investing in it in jurisdictions where it's legal.  

 

[Snotbubbles]

I can't drive impaired on menthol cigarettes. I can't/don't smoke around other people. Not in my house. Not in my car. Only outside away from people. Is it more dangerous to me individually? Yes. So?? 

Is Marijuana not dangerous to the user and possibly others? Like impaired driving?

On this logic, we should ban alcohol as well.  It worked great the first time we tried it.

 

[crackattack]

On this logic, we should ban alcohol as well.  It worked great the first time we tried it.

My logic is don't ban either. Let adults decide what they want to smoke