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FF getting lame (1 Viewer)

chinawildman

chinawildman

Footballguy
One of my teams will be gunning for the championship next week (not that you care), but for some reason, I don't seem to care that much this year. Fantasy football just doesn't interest me as much as it used to, and I've got the media and a bunch of so-called wanna-be football fans to thank for that. Please, if anyone else feels the same way, I'd appreciate you chiming in or at least address how you deal with this apathy.

Perhaps the biggest problem with FF is its popularity. It's created such a demand for fantasy-related content that the average Joe Schmoe who doesn't know the difference between a false start and an offsides is now able to be competitive... (possibly without even watching a game the entire season, or hell, even showing up for the online draft)

What happened to the days when you actually had to watch the game to tell which guys had the talent? Part of the appeal of FF was to be an armchair GM and evaluate talent and draft your team, talk smack to your buddies about how you know more about football than they do. Is victory still satisfying when you can't take much credit for it?

And maybe that's why I feel bored, because I've somewhat succumbed to reading online articles about who's a good play in week whatever rather than doing the statistical research myself like the good ol days. Yup, the good ole days when sundays were spent at the sports bar with beer and buddies yellin' at a TV screen. Nowadays you got FFers huddled in front of their computer, silently cussing to themselves while clicking back and forth between games on NFL.com Gamecenter. Nowadays you see crap on the message boards like " :confused: I HATE ______! Damn him for ruining my season, I hope he breaks his neck! :bag: " Yea listen Trey Wingo, nobody gives a flying F who you started this week.

And gratuitous props to John Madden, who during the sunday night game really stuck to the old-school. When Michaels brought up the TO spitting incident, Madden was beside himself... "We're running down the stretch towards the playoffs and the best story the media can come up with is some guy spitting?!?!?" IMO a nice verbal middle finger to ESPN.

Anyway, this vent wasn't necessary, and probably won't change many peoples' minds about anything... but hey, I think for this week I'm gonna try to "keep it real" actually let myself decide who to start.

 
I agree with everything you said.

Unfortunately, you pretty much bashed the existence of sites like this, so I'm not sure how long this thread will last...

 
Well, you could consider it a challenge to just school all these newbies.

....for some reason it does bother me to hear Kornheiser talk about his FF team...

 
I agree with you to a point but in the end it makes the leagues more competetive. I watch the games because I enjoy them and don't care if the guy I am playing ever saw a game. Over the years I have found this to be true "FF success is directly related to the amount of time you put into it" Next year try not following the games and posting WDIS treads and see how far you get and how much fun you have.

 
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Howabout you 'keep it real' each week?

I mean the fault partially lies with yourself. You say you've been lazy and don't do the research you used to -- well get off your butt and DO IT. YOu say you used to go to the bars and watch football with buddies? Go and DO IT.

You choose to be lazy or not go out or whatever -- and that has nothing to do with the popularity of Fantasy Football. Sure, more sites, people and talking heads make it easier to be lazy.

But YOU still choose to be lazy.

I applaud your efforts for this week. How about you keep it going all next year?

 
I agree with everything you said as well. I stopped playing in one league format that I was in for 8 years because I felt the major factors of luck and the internet/website aids that are now available to football morons made them too competitive and undeservingly so. I created a new league format with rules that eliminate luck as much as possible and really rewards those folks that put in the research time, develop strategies and have some deep knowledge about the game of football. I have to admit, with no preseason draft, waiver pickups or trades, it isn't the most exciting league format to participate in. I feel it definitely lets the self proclaimed experts and knowledgable football fans the most likely to rise to the top though. Here's the rules ibelow in case you are interested. We are planning to tweak the backup player rules for next year, but otherwise this experimental format was a huge success. Extremly easy to commish manually in Microsoft Excel with no website/software help required (only about 1/2 hr of work per week to commish league).

16 week season / $xxx entry fee / 12 owners

Cumulative Points leader for each quarter of season wins $xx.

Cumulative Season Points Champ (total pts. for 16 weeks) gets $xxxx.

3 pts per each for any type of TD scored by a starting player (passing, rushing, receiveing, returning punts/kickoffs)

6 bonus pts - QB rating = or > 100 in a game (QB position only….not applicable for RB's, TE's or WR's that throw gadget passes in a game)

6 bonus pts per game rushing = or > 100yds

6 bonus pts per game receiving = or > 100yds

No points awarded for 2 pt conversions

4 Quarter Season:

Submit starting lineup and bench/replacement players at start of each quarter season (weeks 1 thru 4= 1st quarter 5-8 = 2nd quarter and so on…see "lineup deadlines" below)

Lineup Submissions:

Starters Backups

QB QB (backup)

RB #1 RB (backup to RB #1)

RB #2 RB (backup to RB #2)

WR #1 WR (backup to WR #1)

WR #2 WR (backup to WR #2)

WR #3 WR (backup to WR #3)

TE TE (backup)

Once starting players and backup players have been submitted for a 4 week/quarter session you will not be allowed to select those players for remainder of the season even whether or not those backup players were ever activated to start. Therefore CHOOSE YOUR BACKUPS CAUTIOUSLY.

Backup players: Backup player's points will replace the starting player in which the owner has assigned them to replace. The backup players points will count only when the starter is listed on the official NFL injury report (Thursday submission) as either "Out" or "Doubful" status for the upcoming weekend game. Once a backup is activitated to "starter" they replace the original starter for remainder of quarter.

If the bench/backup player is also hurt (Out/Doubtful) they're still the only option for scoring points even if the original starter returns to health in a later week of the quarter.

Players that are listed as questionable or probably will still be deemed the fantasy starter whether or not they are capable of playing in the weekend games or not.

Lineup deadlines:

- Lineup deadlines must be submitted to commish at Wednesday 4pm prior to NFL Week 1, Week 5, Week 9 & Week 13 respectively. You can email lineup or call in lineup.

- Lineups will be held in confidence by commish until all lineups have been submitted. Commish's lineup will be turned into neutral/non-participative individual (TBD) by

Tuesday 4pm (24 hrs prior to rest of owners deadline).

- Any owner who misses one of the 4 deadlines for lineup submissions during the season will get zero points for the subsequent week. They have until Wed 4pm the next week

to get their lineup in for the remaining 3 weeks of the quarter and so on.

- Any owner (either accidental or deliberate) who submits a player whom they have used in a previous quarter will have that player removed from lineup. If it is a starter submission in error

then the backup player will automatically be moved in as a starter and there will be no backup available. If it is a backup player assiged in error, the backup will simply be deleted.

CHECK YOUR PLAYERS WHOM YOU'VE ALREADY USED CAREFULLY.

 
cwm, you raise some good points. FF has become much more of a data mining / number crunching exercise than it used to be. There have been a number of threads that discuss how the proliferation of infomation has made it more difficult to stay ahead of the pack.

However, its the same in the NFL world. Everything is measured and available to all - look at the NFL Combine. Look at all the game film available. Franchises used to be built on the knowledge and expert eye of guys like Paul Brown or Al Davis; Tex Schramm's Cowboys changed that. Now every team uses statistics. At least its not quite as pervasive as baseball's sabrmetrics.

I don't think this genie can be put back in the bottle. But you may have hit on the edge a lot of us are looking for.

 
haha, believe me I try, but the transition from college bachelordom to being a self-employed professional no doubt took its toll... not to mention time spent researching football stats would probably be better served researching stock picks for my portfolio.Yea I know, excuses excuses... I guess I just wish the temptation wasn't there at all. For me, unlike stocks, fantasy football is more about the journey than the reward.

NoFBinLA said:
Howabout you 'keep it real' each week?I mean the fault partially lies with yourself. You say you've been lazy and don't do the research you used to -- well get off your butt and DO IT. YOu say you used to go to the bars and watch football with buddies? Go and DO IT.You choose to be lazy or not go out or whatever -- and that has nothing to do with the popularity of Fantasy Football. Sure, more sites, people and talking heads make it easier to be lazy.But YOU still choose to be lazy.I applaud your efforts for this week. How about you keep it going all next year?
Click to expand...
 
Thank you for the idea Captain... although from experience I think retaining a head-to-head matchup adds a certain "finality" to each week's activities, which I like.The option I'm exploring most is using an auction format for everything, from draft to waiver pickups. IMO I think it will offer the most opportunities for strategy and really let the owners put their money where their mouth is. Whether I can convince my friends to try this format is another matter altogether, as it does discourage the casual FF fan, which now more than ever, seems to be a necessary evil for most. :thumbup:

Captain Spaulding said:
I created a new league format with rules that eliminate luck as much as possible and really rewards those folks that put in the research time, develop strategies and have some deep knowledge about the game of football.
Click to expand...
 
fsufan said:
FF has gotten lame to me because of the luck involved
Click to expand...
It's always been there. My take is that the gap has shrunk between the "sharks" and "gups" but there are still ways to differentiate yourself and stay on top. Roster management is key, especially in leagues with smaller rosters, and can't be tutored on websites. Balancing your team with productive players, players with upside and a spot(s) for gambles/waiver pickups. Trades is another area where good teams can stay on top, knowing who to trade and who to trade for. Assessing other teams strengths/weakness's and putting together offers. My free agent/waiver pickup strategy has changed as well. In the past you were able to wait for a guy to have a good game and then try to pick him but with all the websites putting together weekly free agent pick up lists that playing field has evened as well. Now you have to anticipate who has the opportunity to breakout given the situation, system, etc. and pick them up before they actually breakout because once it happens it's too late. Like poker, you can go in with the best hand but there is always some luck at the end of the day....
 
My first couple of years (~8 years ago), I always played in a couple of leagues with at least 2-3 real gups.

I always finished near the top based on my football knowledge and being one of the few people in my leagues to really do hardcore research week in and week out.

Back then, I knew I could dominate based on my abilities. My goals were assembling super-teams that would get me a championship; anything else was a failure.

Those days are gone. Too much info out there and it seems like most people that play the game are highly competitive.

Six leagues this year (free up to a $250 entry fee) and not a single player in any league is as misinformed as those couple every year in the beginning.

As the competition has increased, so has the way I look at the game, along with my expectations.

The regular season is no longer just a downhill coast to the playoffs. Every week is focused on doing whatever I can to give myself any competeitive advantage.

Every team that makes the playoffs is a success for me; the championship is still my goal, but a top three finish (and any money) is a great season these days.

I don't think it's worse; just different. It might even be better know because I'll enjoy a good finish if my competition is stout.

One way to really spice things up is to do a partial keeper where half of the league fees go to a five-year pot based on total points (reg season) over that entire period.

 
Something was definitely different this year. I think it has to do with the fact that there wasn't much separation between your good players and your hacks (Other than LT2). The wide receiver position really suffered, due to the over abundance of s**t quarterbacks.

 
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Captain Spaulding said:
I agree with everything you said as well. I stopped playing in one league format that I was in for 8 years because I felt the major factors of luck and the internet/website aids that are now available to football morons made them too competitive and undeservingly so. I created a new league format with rules that eliminate luck as much as possible and really rewards those folks that put in the research time, develop strategies and have some deep knowledge about the game of football. I have to admit, with no preseason draft, waiver pickups or trades, it isn't the most exciting league format to participate in. I feel it definitely lets the self proclaimed experts and knowledgable football fans the most likely to rise to the top though. Here's the rules ibelow in case you are interested. We are planning to tweak the backup player rules for next year, but otherwise this experimental format was a huge success. Extremly easy to commish manually in Microsoft Excel with no website/software help required (only about 1/2 hr of work per week to commish league).

16 week season / $xxx entry fee / 12 owners

Cumulative Points leader for each quarter of season wins $xx.

Cumulative Season Points Champ (total pts. for 16 weeks) gets $xxxx.

3 pts per each for any type of TD scored by a starting player (passing, rushing, receiveing, returning punts/kickoffs)

6 bonus pts - QB rating = or > 100 in a game (QB position only….not applicable for RB's, TE's or WR's that throw gadget passes in a game)

6 bonus pts per game rushing = or > 100yds

6 bonus pts per game receiving = or > 100yds

No points awarded for 2 pt conversions

4 Quarter Season:

Submit starting lineup and bench/replacement players at start of each quarter season (weeks 1 thru 4= 1st quarter 5-8 = 2nd quarter and so on…see "lineup deadlines" below)

Lineup Submissions:

Starters Backups

QB QB (backup)

RB #1 RB (backup to RB #1)

RB #2 RB (backup to RB #2)

WR #1 WR (backup to WR #1)

WR #2 WR (backup to WR #2)

WR #3 WR (backup to WR #3)

TE TE (backup)

Once starting players and backup players have been submitted for a 4 week/quarter session you will not be allowed to select those players for remainder of the season even whether or not those backup players were ever activated to start. Therefore CHOOSE YOUR BACKUPS CAUTIOUSLY.

Backup players: Backup player's points will replace the starting player in which the owner has assigned them to replace. The backup players points will count only when the starter is listed on the official NFL injury report (Thursday submission) as either "Out" or "Doubful" status for the upcoming weekend game. Once a backup is activitated to "starter" they replace the original starter for remainder of quarter.

If the bench/backup player is also hurt (Out/Doubtful) they're still the only option for scoring points even if the original starter returns to health in a later week of the quarter.

Players that are listed as questionable or probably will still be deemed the fantasy starter whether or not they are capable of playing in the weekend games or not.

Lineup deadlines:

- Lineup deadlines must be submitted to commish at Wednesday 4pm prior to NFL Week 1, Week 5, Week 9 & Week 13 respectively. You can email lineup or call in lineup.

- Lineups will be held in confidence by commish until all lineups have been submitted. Commish's lineup will be turned into neutral/non-participative individual (TBD) by

Tuesday 4pm (24 hrs prior to rest of owners deadline).

- Any owner who misses one of the 4 deadlines for lineup submissions during the season will get zero points for the subsequent week. They have until Wed 4pm the next week

to get their lineup in for the remaining 3 weeks of the quarter and so on.

- Any owner (either accidental or deliberate) who submits a player whom they have used in a previous quarter will have that player removed from lineup. If it is a starter submission in error

then the backup player will automatically be moved in as a starter and there will be no backup available. If it is a backup player assiged in error, the backup will simply be deleted.

CHECK YOUR PLAYERS WHOM YOU'VE ALREADY USED CAREFULLY.
Click to expand...
Nice format, it is quite creative but how exactly does this decrease the luck factor?So much depends on players health, even more than a standard league with such limited substitutions, that it actually increases the value of an owner drafting players who stay healthy week-in-week-out. Player health is almost exclusively predicated on luck.

I am curious where Brian Westbrook was drafted in your league? If owners were paying attention to the rules he probably should have slipped farther below his value than he should have in a standard league. So the owner that got him later is pretty lucky he slipped in the draft and stayed healthy all season.

 
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chinawildman said:
And gratuitous props to John Madden, who during the sunday night game really stuck to the old-school. When Michaels brought up the TO spitting incident, Madden was beside himself... "We're running down the stretch towards the playoffs and the best story the media can come up with is some guy spitting?!?!?" IMO a nice verbal middle finger to ESPN.
Click to expand...
Dead on. I also liked the "What in the world have we come to?" line that followed. It's things like this that make me like Madden despite all the goofiness (although there is a smidge of hypocrisy even here as the video game that bears his name seems to include some of the less "old school" self pimping after plays). At his core he's what football should be all about and he's genuine about it.FF has meant less and less for me as the years go by (been playing FF since 1990!), somewhat because of the influx of new players and overcoverage, but mostly because it's become somewhat old hat. What I have found is that I've come to care much more about my fav real life NFL team (the Chargers) and enjoy watching them more than I have since the Fouts years, it helps that they're winning, but the actual game is definitely better than these abstractions we build and participate in.
 
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Fantasy football and poker seem to be on similar tracks-- very fun game that exploded in popularity, and now sometimes seems less fun to the die-hard player. Now, anybody with internet acces and a credit card can be a "contender" for a major poker tournament, and and anyone with a cheatsheet and a web browser can be the most informed fantasy player.

I think it comes back to who you play with. Ignore the yammering on television, stick to the home card game with your well-established buddies and only join leagues where you have camaraderie with the other owners. That way, what everyone else does won't matter.

 
One way to keep interest high is to create other goals beyond the FFL title. Keep detailed records of everyone's career record, and their all-time record vs. other individuals who play FFL. Keep track of their all-time playoff record. Create a weekly newsletter where you discuss all the trends currently taking place in your league. These things give your league meaning.

Break down each matchup. If one guy has owned the other and beat him 8 straight times, bring it up. If one guy is 0-6 lifetime in the playoffs, bring that up too. Whoever is riding the longest winning streak in the league, well, build that guy up making it mean something when he gets beat because you will give that guy a glowing blurb in the newsletter.

I know it sounds stupid, but it REALLY kept interest up in the league I play. Other GMs would tell me how they couldn't wait for the latest report.

 
BGP said:
One way to keep interest high is to create other goals beyond the FFL title. Keep detailed records of everyone's career record, and their all-time record vs. other individuals who play FFL. Keep track of their all-time playoff record. Create a weekly newsletter where you discuss all the trends currently taking place in your league. These things give your league meaning.Break down each matchup. If one guy has owned the other and beat him 8 straight times, bring it up. If one guy is 0-6 lifetime in the playoffs, bring that up too. Whoever is riding the longest winning streak in the league, well, build that guy up making it mean something when he gets beat because you will give that guy a glowing blurb in the newsletter.I know it sounds stupid, but it REALLY kept interest up in the league I play. Other GMs would tell me how they couldn't wait for the latest report.
Click to expand...
can you post some examples of your report?
 
I think I peaked about three years ago.

I still enjoy it but half of the fun was uncovering hidden gems and sleepers on your own through out of town papers.

 
fsufan said:
FF has gotten lame to me because of the luck involved
Click to expand...
I think in the past you could out work your opponents for information helping to reduce the luck impact. Now the playing field has been leveled. When you have a league of owners with basically the same information I feel that luck plays a greater roll in all of the leagues I'm in. It probably always was there, but it feels like its more and more of a factor each year. If anything I think its more disapointing since I feel the skill factor has been leveled off.In the past I thought of FFB along the same lines as poker or blackjack. Luck is a factor in both, but there is a skill factor there also. Now I kind of feel like FFB is like playing the slot machines.
 
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BGP said:
One way to keep interest high is to create other goals beyond the FFL title. Keep detailed records of everyone's career record, and their all-time record vs. other individuals who play FFL. Keep track of their all-time playoff record. Create a weekly newsletter where you discuss all the trends currently taking place in your league. These things give your league meaning.Break down each matchup. If one guy has owned the other and beat him 8 straight times, bring it up. If one guy is 0-6 lifetime in the playoffs, bring that up too. Whoever is riding the longest winning streak in the league, well, build that guy up making it mean something when he gets beat because you will give that guy a glowing blurb in the newsletter.I know it sounds stupid, but it REALLY kept interest up in the league I play. Other GMs would tell me how they couldn't wait for the latest report.
Click to expand...
This is all very interesting and I'm sure that most owners would enjoy reading such writeups but unless your commissioner is out of work and fine with it, I doubt he/she would be able to detail such stuff. And to support somebody else's comment in this thread, I agree that this year was kind of....I don't know...."BLAH" for me fantasy wise. I'm in 3 leagues and I got ousted in 2 of them this past weekend and I'm in the finals in my 3rd league. So it wasn't for a lack of success that got me tired/bored. Can't really put my finger on it.
 
I enjoy the challenge of playing against 9 or 11 other knowledgable owners than I did back in the day of competing against 9 other newbs. But, I play for fun, not money, so the competition is the point to me.

 
chinawildman said:
One of my teams will be gunning for the championship next week (not that you care), but for some reason, I don't seem to care that much this year. Fantasy football just doesn't interest me as much as it used to, and I've got the media and a bunch of so-called wanna-be football fans to thank for that. Please, if anyone else feels the same way, I'd appreciate you chiming in or at least address how you deal with this apathy.Perhaps the biggest problem with FF is its popularity. It's created such a demand for fantasy-related content that the average Joe Schmoe who doesn't know the difference between a false start and an offsides is now able to be competitive... (possibly without even watching a game the entire season, or hell, even showing up for the online draft) What happened to the days when you actually had to watch the game to tell which guys had the talent? Part of the appeal of FF was to be an armchair GM and evaluate talent and draft your team, talk smack to your buddies about how you know more about football than they do. Is victory still satisfying when you can't take much credit for it?And maybe that's why I feel bored, because I've somewhat succumbed to reading online articles about who's a good play in week whatever rather than doing the statistical research myself like the good ol days. Yup, the good ole days when sundays were spent at the sports bar with beer and buddies yellin' at a TV screen. Nowadays you got FFers huddled in front of their computer, silently cussing to themselves while clicking back and forth between games on NFL.com Gamecenter. Nowadays you see crap on the message boards like " :thumbup: I HATE ______! Damn him for ruining my season, I hope he breaks his neck! :unsure: " Yea listen Trey Wingo, nobody gives a flying F who you started this week. And gratuitous props to John Madden, who during the sunday night game really stuck to the old-school. When Michaels brought up the TO spitting incident, Madden was beside himself... "We're running down the stretch towards the playoffs and the best story the media can come up with is some guy spitting?!?!?" IMO a nice verbal middle finger to ESPN.Anyway, this vent wasn't necessary, and probably won't change many peoples' minds about anything... but hey, I think for this week I'm gonna try to "keep it real" actually let myself decide who to start.
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How much is your league entry fee?
 
Add IDP's to your league. Say a full lineup of 11 defensive players.

That will open up more avenues of who does better research than another, since IDP's aren't as widely written about yet.

The league histories and weekly news letters are great too. The problem with a weekly newsletter is having a writer in your league... if you don't have one, you probably won't have a lasting newsletter...

 
chinawildman said:
One of my teams will be gunning for the championship next week (not that you care), but for some reason, I don't seem to care that much this year. Fantasy football just doesn't interest me as much as it used to, and I've got the media and a bunch of so-called wanna-be football fans to thank for that. Please, if anyone else feels the same way, I'd appreciate you chiming in or at least address how you deal with this apathy.Perhaps the biggest problem with FF is its popularity. It's created such a demand for fantasy-related content that the average Joe Schmoe who doesn't know the difference between a false start and an offsides is now able to be competitive... (possibly without even watching a game the entire season, or hell, even showing up for the online draft) What happened to the days when you actually had to watch the game to tell which guys had the talent? Part of the appeal of FF was to be an armchair GM and evaluate talent and draft your team, talk smack to your buddies about how you know more about football than they do. Is victory still satisfying when you can't take much credit for it?And maybe that's why I feel bored, because I've somewhat succumbed to reading online articles about who's a good play in week whatever rather than doing the statistical research myself like the good ol days. Yup, the good ole days when sundays were spent at the sports bar with beer and buddies yellin' at a TV screen. Nowadays you got FFers huddled in front of their computer, silently cussing to themselves while clicking back and forth between games on NFL.com Gamecenter. Nowadays you see crap on the message boards like " :cry: I HATE ______! Damn him for ruining my season, I hope he breaks his neck! :cry: " Yea listen Trey Wingo, nobody gives a flying F who you started this week. And gratuitous props to John Madden, who during the sunday night game really stuck to the old-school. When Michaels brought up the TO spitting incident, Madden was beside himself... "We're running down the stretch towards the playoffs and the best story the media can come up with is some guy spitting?!?!?" IMO a nice verbal middle finger to ESPN.Anyway, this vent wasn't necessary, and probably won't change many peoples' minds about anything... but hey, I think for this week I'm gonna try to "keep it real" actually let myself decide who to start.
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For someone who isn't as interested in FF anymore, you sure do have alot to say about FF.Anyone involved in FF for several years always goes through periods where its not as exciting as it might have once been. You'll either have a renewed outlook and get that excitement back or stop playing. If you stop playing, but continue posting, that may be a sign of a much bigger issue. Good luck.
 
I agree that the "commercialization" of FF puts a damper on things for me in that my "expertise" is somewhat negated by how easy it is to get quality info without putting in any work.

However, if you want to get the juices flowing again, get involved in some of the spring leagues that go on around here. It's only diehards, and the info is not common knowledge yet. You really have to do a little thinking and not just go by what everyone else is doing, because the general public is not yet into it.

 
Banger said:
fsufan said:
FF has gotten lame to me because of the luck involved
Click to expand...
It's always been there. My take is that the gap has shrunk between the "sharks" and "gups" but there are still ways to differentiate yourself and stay on top. Roster management is key, especially in leagues with smaller rosters, and can't be tutored on websites. Balancing your team with productive players, players with upside and a spot(s) for gambles/waiver pickups. Trades is another area where good teams can stay on top, knowing who to trade and who to trade for. Assessing other teams strengths/weakness's and putting together offers. My free agent/waiver pickup strategy has changed as well. In the past you were able to wait for a guy to have a good game and then try to pick him but with all the websites putting together weekly free agent pick up lists that playing field has evened as well. Now you have to anticipate who has the opportunity to breakout given the situation, system, etc. and pick them up before they actually breakout because once it happens it's too late. Like poker, you can go in with the best hand but there is always some luck at the end of the day....
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i have been doing all of this in my main dynasty team of 8 years. I have always made the playoffs, won division titles, regular season title, 1 Superbowl. It Fin sucks when you go 12-1 with this starting line up and they tank in the playoffsPalmer- 7 PTsLT-31 PTsBell- 3 PTsHolt- 5 PTsdriver- 7 PTsgates- 0 PTsKaeding- 8 PTsLT out scored all of the other 7 players. My kicker out scored the position players.
 
fsufan said:
FF has gotten lame to me because of the luck involved
Click to expand...
This is starting to frustrate me as well. My star studded, 2nd in overall points, team (next to the LT owner) ended up in 6th place. I got 0 money while the first round carson palmer, 2nd round cadillac owner is playing in the championship. That's why I'm trying to set up a league that rewards skill more than luck.Enough of my complaining though.I also agree with MANY of the points of the OP. It is hard to take credit when it seems like everyone just reads the same stuff online anyway.
 
I dont get the hate for this game that some are spewing. Yeah, it sucks when your team scores the 2nd or 3rd most points one week and lose but nobody ever comes on the boards to complain about when their team scores the 3rd lowest points and wins a game. What about then?

The whole Luck vs. Skill arguments are pretty weak too. It would appear the high point scorers like to come on here and claim they have skill because they have the most points or whatever else yet if these same people showed us their rosters right after the draft they might have been laughed at in September. On the flipside the people who had the "best" rosters after the draft are in the stinker now. It is all relative.

In my dynasty league I finished 5-8 and missed the playoffs by about 8 points (2 teams go based on points). In the "could have won" column I had a league high 7 possible wins. There were acutally two teams with 7 but I reached that number first. So, in theory I could have gone the season just losing one game. Oh well. Those are the breaks. Live with them and die with them. It all works out in the end.

 
fsufan said:
Banger said:
fsufan said:
FF has gotten lame to me because of the luck involved
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It's always been there. My take is that the gap has shrunk between the "sharks" and "gups" but there are still ways to differentiate yourself and stay on top. Roster management is key, especially in leagues with smaller rosters, and can't be tutored on websites. Balancing your team with productive players, players with upside and a spot(s) for gambles/waiver pickups.

Trades is another area where good teams can stay on top, knowing who to trade and who to trade for. Assessing other teams strengths/weakness's and putting together offers.

My free agent/waiver pickup strategy has changed as well. In the past you were able to wait for a guy to have a good game and then try to pick him but with all the websites putting together weekly free agent pick up lists that playing field has evened as well. Now you have to anticipate who has the opportunity to breakout given the situation, system, etc. and pick them up before they actually breakout because once it happens it's too late.

Like poker, you can go in with the best hand but there is always some luck at the end of the day....
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i have been doing all of this in my main dynasty team of 8 years. I have always made the playoffs, won division titles, regular season title, 1 Superbowl. It Fin sucks when you go 12-1 with this starting line up and they tank in the playoffsPalmer- 7 PTs

LT-31 PTs

Bell- 3 PTs

Holt- 5 PTs

driver- 7 PTs

gates- 0 PTs

Kaeding- 8 PTs

LT out scored all of the other 7 players. My kicker out scored the position players.
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I couldn't agree more with the poker quote. 12-1 2 straight seasons in a fairly competetive league.5 of 10 guys subscribe to this site. Both years I was bounced in my first playoff game. I lost by 17 this and my team scored 52 points less than its weekly average for the season. For me the luck factor really takes something away from ff.But i do enjoy ff and there is no way to eliminate luck.

 
What you get out of the game is what you put you put into it. If you have the same guys in the same league with the same rules from year to year, the game is going to feel more routine than fun. That's why I believe you have to shake things up a bit- rearrange divisions to get new rivalries going; tighten up the playoff requirements; tweak the scoring; limit the rosters; change your WW system, etc.

Doing these things makes the players change their style from year to year, and makes the game a little different from season to season. Otherwise, you end up with draft...autopilot...playoffs. It also helps if you can get together with others in your league to watch the games.

 
I started feeling the "burnout" last year. I started playing FF in my early 20's (now mid-30s) with college buddies, and the funnest part was getting together for the draft and talking trash with your friends over beer and pizza. And as the years pass you get married, raise kids, get a job (where you have to work Sundays sometimes :bye: ) and move away. Then to get your FF fix your turn to online leagues, which can be fun and just as competitve, if not more, than the old local league with the buds, but you lose that comraderie and the interaction you have with the live drafts.

I also find it impossible to watch or listen to FF shows or even talk football outside of this message board or my leagues, because I find most people only talk about the obvious or don't know what their talking about at all.

It also doesn't help that I've been in 7 ultra-competitve leagues the past two years, all with different rules which kinda takes some of the fun out of it. I think next year I'll trim them back to 3 or 4.....Then again, come August I'll probably be in 7 leagues again.

Just my 0.02

 
Ah yes, the burnout.

A buddy and I were trying to put together a new league this year, mulling over all of the issues that have been displayed on this thread and others. As others in this thread we have lost too many leagues with to good of teams (point to t-shirt). These are our talking points on how to reduce luck and how it plays into the FF season. These are our thoughts and we would appreciate any insight.

The Draft.

Unless you had horrendous luck, or made some significant draft day mistakes, you probably made the playoffs this year if you had the first or second overall pick (LT and LJ). If you were in the top six you at least had a shot a Jackson, but if you were in the bottom half of the draft you really had to make some good picks to still be alive this season and if your are you deserve to be.

Once suggestion, which came from a in a preseason thread and thought it was interesting. The first two rounds are serpentine but the first pick of the third round goes to the team with the last pick in first, then goes serpentine thereafter (last to first).. There was a nice study using FBG’s draft pick calculator that showed that overall picks were even using this strategy.

The Playoff Teams.

I am in several leagues where six to eight teams make the playoffs. Winning two weeks in a row is tough enough; winning three in a row is just pure luck. Keep it at four. The guy with a crappy team who picks ups the nom de jour in December doesn’t deserve to win the title. If you incorporate it with the below it makes some sense.

Who Makes the Playoffs?

In one league this year we used victory points. I have seen this mentioned quite a bit on the boards so it isn’t new, but a weekly winner would receive two points and the loser nothing, but those who scored in the top third in points in each week would receive an additional two point, the middle third one point, and the bottom third no points. In this particular league the top four teams in points scored all reached the playoffs. You still have the fun of H2H competition but unless a team has incredibly poor luck, the top teams will all make the playoffs.

Change the tie-breakers.

I can’t still believe that I participate in leagues where division record and head to head matter in allocating playoff berths. Schedule is too random to decide who gets into the playoffs. Use either total points or all-play record (which I prefer because it limits the impact of one off the chart week).

Scoring & Starting Lineups.

Make it more complicated.

Everyone has standard cheat sheets for standard scoring leagues and most have cheat sheets for PPR leagues. This year we added several new wrinkles (not all in one league, but across several).

Running backs receive 1 point per twelve yards rushing; while wide receivers receive 1 point per ten yards receiving.

Bonus for wide receivers at 100 yards with bonus for running backs at 120 yards, and for quarterbacks at 350 yards.

Running backs score PPR points after 3 catches, wide receivers after 6 catches and tight end upon their first catch.

Quarter backs are penalized a point for a sack and 5 for an interception returned for a touchdown.

Adding flex positions makes it difficult for a league member, even using a professional cheat sheet to value the difference between positions.

More starting players.

Once again make it complicated.

Start two QBs. Start two tight ends. Start an option of seven or eight RBs or WRs. Use IDP. The cheat sheets can’t often comprehend the difficulty of drafting and maintain squads like this.

Injuries

There are some interesting points on this thread regarding injuries. But as far as I am concerned they are a part of the game of football and should be as part of the fantasy game. But I do like the part about being able to designate a reserve player in the case your starter is injured. I will mull on this for a while.

I don’t participate in any league with all of these rules, but these are the one’s in the leagues I do participate in I found most interesting.

We would appreciate any comments.

 
Here is some free advice and that's probably all it's worth.

1. Build a new league. Make it up with only locals. When I say local, I mean within a coupld square miles of your house. Get out to the sports bars and make a few friends.

2. Make it a necesity that every week or every other week most of the league meets somewhere for the football games. If it's at someone's house, great. If the person's turn for the week has a wife and kids and can't really host then everyone heads for the local sports pub. The point is to get everyone involved. Whether you win or lose, it's a lot more fun to split some pitchers and wings up with people you actually enjoy being around.

3. This type of league will not be made up overnight. You might have to get 25 different people to committ before you can piece together 12 good owners including you that will follow thru on this. The money and the win and losses should be the 2nd part of this league, the 1st is having fun, cooking out, and really enjoying the game of football.

Now what I am suggesting may seem a bit hard to put together. If it's not your cup of tea, fine. But someone else posted above with a league they liked that they put together. It's time for you to be a "Commish", and put together a league you will enjoy. I ahve a few "expert/FBG" leagues that I belong to but I also participate in a few guppy type leagues or leagues where there is a mix of knowledge. Some of the time I do very well and other times you have Chiacgo Bears fans that get lucky by snatching Rex Grossman of the WW or whatever the case is.

You're upset because of the "luck factor"...but the reality is you're simply not having fun. Now if fun means you winning $1,000 in the league, and you get a rise out of that, I would suggest you go to Vegas and try to win $1,000 playing Blackjack or Poker...you might have more fun.

If it is for the football and not the money...take the league fees out and play for free. If you lose at the end of the season you didn't lose any money...better yet take $25 form all 10-12 owners and buy a Championship Ring/Jersey/Trophy...whatever. It might spark a little more fun than an empty check at the end of the season whether you win or lose. I am in a FF SB in one of my leagues ths weekend. If I am lucky and succeed, I am going to get a jersey and put Ministry of Pain Champions of XYZ league or whatever floats my boat.

Hardly anyone in here makes a living playing FF because there is a lot of luck involved and it's too much money you have to tie up to succeed. It's a hobby, have fun with it...and if you are burnt out then you shouldn't watch a football game till next season.

Something inside of you is not being fulfilled, good luck in finding it.

 
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Shiggy Shaol said:
BGP said:
One way to keep interest high is to create other goals beyond the FFL title. Keep detailed records of everyone's career record, and their all-time record vs. other individuals who play FFL. Keep track of their all-time playoff record. Create a weekly newsletter where you discuss all the trends currently taking place in your league. These things give your league meaning.

Break down each matchup. If one guy has owned the other and beat him 8 straight times, bring it up. If one guy is 0-6 lifetime in the playoffs, bring that up too. Whoever is riding the longest winning streak in the league, well, build that guy up making it mean something when he gets beat because you will give that guy a glowing blurb in the newsletter.

I know it sounds stupid, but it REALLY kept interest up in the league I play. Other GMs would tell me how they couldn't wait for the latest report.
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This is all very interesting and I'm sure that most owners would enjoy reading such writeups but unless your commissioner is out of work and fine with it, I doubt he/she would be able to detail such stuff. And to support somebody else's comment in this thread, I agree that this year was kind of....I don't know...."BLAH" for me fantasy wise. I'm in 3 leagues and I got ousted in 2 of them this past weekend and I'm in the finals in my 3rd league. So it wasn't for a lack of success that got me tired/bored. Can't really put my finger on it.
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Our league does this and most owners make some regular contribution...spreading the work around keeps everyone engaged and limits the burden on anyone in particular...I've posted the link a few times before, but here's a link to our regular content master thread and an example of a team history...

Plus our league structure (IDPs, contracts, dual flex, etc) adds several dimensions that the casual FF community has yet to reduce to a cheatsheet...

 
Here's my suggestion. Just play in one league.

I don't think it takes nearly half as much football knowledge to play in multiple leagues. You end up relying on the law of averages to stake your rep. Sort of like buying sheets of lottery tix in my opinion. Takes more cahones and ability to do well in just one league consistently over time, to focus on one team, to draft well, and to manage the few players you really believe will carry you to big money. Just like the real NFL. Add some IDP to spice it up if you need to, change the scoring, add ppr, whatever to keep it fresh. But one team, one league.

Plus, you'll find that the time you save managing just one team gives you way more time to do other things in life that aren't as lame as Fantasy football so the burn-out rate is lower and the happiness factor is higher.

Just my 2 cents.

 
I'm going through the burnout a bit too. I think part of it is being in too many leagues for me. I actually feel some burnout before the season even starts when I complete my last draft in Vegas (WCOFF) every year. I don't know what it is but I do so much homework in the offseason and compete in so many drafts throughout the preseason, that by the time all of the drafting is done I'm a bit out of sorts. Almost like the games themselves have become mundane and I just wait for the results to roll in.

I really think it's because I'm in so many leagues (around 30 each year, 15 of which need to be actively managed). So, I'm going to cut back a bit more and compete in more survivor/best ball type leagues because I don't have as much time to work the wire and make free agent movements as in year's past. At least I'm going to try. I have an FF addiction when it comes to joining additional leagues and participating in drafts because the draft is the most exciting part for me, not the in season work. I like to do my work in the offseason and bring the results of that work into my drafts. I really get bored with a lot of the in season obligations (banging on the wire, making trades, etc.) sometimes. Maybe I'm the only one.

 
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jetpack said:
Here's my suggestion. Just play in one league. I don't think it takes nearly half as much football knowledge to play in multiple leagues. You end up relying on the law of averages to stake your rep. Sort of like buying sheets of lottery tix in my opinion. Takes more cahones and ability to do well in just one league consistently over time, to focus on one team, to draft well, and to manage the few players you really believe will carry you to big money. Just like the real NFL. Add some IDP to spice it up if you need to, change the scoring, add ppr, whatever to keep it fresh. But one team, one league.Plus, you'll find that the time you save managing just one team gives you way more time to do other things in life that aren't as lame as Fantasy football so the burn-out rate is lower and the happiness factor is higher.Just my 2 cents.
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Not a bad suggestion although I'd be just as bored if not more so with only one. I'm hoping to trim it down to 8-9 actively managed leagues and then I'll go close to unlimited in survivor/best ball leagues.
 
I cut down my leagues as well. This season I did one auction, one redraft, and the FBG Survivor contest. It was pretty simple and more enjoyable.

 
Shiggy Shaol said:
BGP said:
One way to keep interest high is to create other goals beyond the FFL title. Keep detailed records of everyone's career record, and their all-time record vs. other individuals who play FFL. Keep track of their all-time playoff record. Create a weekly newsletter where you discuss all the trends currently taking place in your league. These things give your league meaning.Break down each matchup. If one guy has owned the other and beat him 8 straight times, bring it up. If one guy is 0-6 lifetime in the playoffs, bring that up too. Whoever is riding the longest winning streak in the league, well, build that guy up making it mean something when he gets beat because you will give that guy a glowing blurb in the newsletter.I know it sounds stupid, but it REALLY kept interest up in the league I play. Other GMs would tell me how they couldn't wait for the latest report.
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This is all very interesting and I'm sure that most owners would enjoy reading such writeups but unless your commissioner is out of work and fine with it, I doubt he/she would be able to detail such stuff.
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I take about 90 minutes every sunday morning to do it, usually while listening to a pregame show.
 
To keep it interesting, migrate to other leagues besides redraft.

Dynasty leagues and IDP leagues take a certain amount of insight and strategy that can't be spoon fed.

Redraft leagues, OTOH, are actually fairly simple if someone else gathers all the information and presents you with details on the limited number of strategies.

 
A lot of you guys have mentioned that the guppies can get all the information that us sharks get, in that it makes the guppies more competitive, and that more luck is involved. Well, that's true. We have been spoiled since, in the past, we knew how to access more up-to-date information, while the average guppy shows up with an outdated magazine. Things have changed, guys. That advantage of having better information isn't there anymore.

Now there are ways that a shark can gain an advantage, mostly by better roster management....trades, WW transactions, and WDIS decisions. For example, a guppy still won't be able to predict when a guy on the WW going to break out. True sharks can. The key to my response is that the shark needs to adapt to the competition, just like a company does in the real world. The methods that won us championships 5-10 years ago doesn't work as good today.

 
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