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Fidel Castro dead at 90 (1 Viewer)

SaintsInDome2006 said:
I do not doubt that the HC system is good statistically. But honestly considering the government owns everything in the country... they should be ranked first in everything.
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Because they can freely buy anything they want, right.

Actually one of the things the Cuban healthcare system has been lauded for is to come up with treatment that work without access to nedicines developed by US pharma companies

 
msommer said:
Because they can freely buy anything they want, right.

Actually one of the things the Cuban healthcare system has been lauded for is to come up with treatment that work without access to nedicines developed by US pharma companies
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Preventative medicine, yes? Congrats on that, but refusing to hold free elections knowing that results in those medicines being blocked sounds like IS The worst health care policy ever invented.

 
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GroveDiesel said:
http://abcnews.go.com/Exclusiva/story?id=3568278&page=1
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Although Cuba claims to have low infant mortality rates, doctors have said the data is misleading because when there might be indications of problems with the fetus, there is a widespread practice of forced abortions.

Julio Alfonso said, "We personally used to do 70 to 80 abortions a day." Yanet Sanchez, a Cuban exile, said she was simply told to submit to an abortion. "They told me I should end the pregnancy," said Sanchez. "It was my very first pregnancy. I wanted to have the child."

Other doctors have said that if a child dies a few hours after birth, they don't count it as ever having lived, which ultimately makes infant mortality in Cuba look better than that of the United States.

"It changes the number, even though the same number of children may be dying or more," said Carro.
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- This kind of stat faking is pretty common in communist regimes. The Chines used to do this with their manufacturing stats in the old days as well, so did the Russians.

 
And note that their maternal death rate is very high. You can't fake that number like you can with infant mortality rate (where they don't count it as a child/death if the child dies within hours of birth). 

Seeing a high maternal death rate, but a low infant mortality rate, I think a reasonable person reads the claims about how Cuba manipulates infant mortality rates and finds it credible. A high maternal death rate but low infant mortality rate doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless infant mortality is being reported incorrectly. And note that by not reporting those as deaths, it has the added bonus for Cuba of raising their life expectancy.

 
GroveDiesel said:
Here's some helpful info:

-All data the WHO has on Cuba's healthcare system are self reported by Cuba. The WHO does none of their own research or data collection

-Cuba does not consider any child that dies within several hours of childbirth to have ever been alive, therefore artificially lowering their infant mortality rate

-Cuba often practices forced/coerced abortions for any unborn child believed to have developmental problems

Relying on any data that comes from Cuba is foolish. They have long claimed that they have more computers per classroom than America. From reports I've read and from firsthand accounts from friends that have visited Cuba, the claim may be technically true, but when it's achieved with Apple IIs sitting in the corner of a one room dirt room schoolhouse with no electric outlets, it's rather meaningless.
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I haven't seen a beat down of squiz this bad since, well, last time someone refuted a squiz post.

 
squistion said:
Meh.
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Must get tiring getting your ### handed to you.  Seriously, if you're going to defend someone it should probably NOT be an evil SOB like Castro.  Maybe start by asking yourself, "Is this guy a brutal dictator?".  That should help point you in the right direction.

 
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MaxThreshold said:
I haven't seen a beat down of squiz this bad since, well, last time someone refuted a squiz post.
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That seems unfair. The truth is that we simply don't have good data on Cuba's healthcare. They very well could be better than what you'd expect, but like with all tightly controlled totalitarian dictatorships, it's likely that their self-reported numbers are largely lies or distorted and it seems absurd that so much of the world just takes their word for it.

 
Thermometers Again Available in Cuba, But Only on the Ration Book


Havana, 15 January 2016 – After disappearing for months, this January thermometers have returned to some pharmacies in Havana, although they can only be purchased through the ration book.

In 2015, about 60 medications included in the “basic health core” where unavailable in Cuban hospitals and pharmacies, mainly those used in the treatment of cancer. Also missing were over-the-counter products such as adhesive tape, elastic bandages and Band-Aids.
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http://translatingcuba.com/thermometers-again-available-in-cubam-but-only-on-the-ration-book-14ymedio/

- Por ejemplo.

 
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Cuban officials and doctors misinform about causes of death and transmissions diseases.



 




Officials and Cuban doctors use abstract language to misinform.
 
Officials of the sector's health in Cuba use an indefinite language referring to the causes of the deaths of patients in hospitals and epidemics spreading in several regions of the country. The purpose is to misinform the public.
For cholera employ the expression "disease of digestive transmission" and when referring to a town where there are cases with dengue, allege that "it has waged a campaign against outbreaks of the mosquito Aedes Aegypti", or that "there are people on suspicion" of contracting the ailment.
Another of the euphemisms used is "influenza vaccination campaign", of the efforts to combat the Influenza A virus. This causes highly infectious and dangerous diseases such as bird flu, and the swine flu.
Misinformation or inaccurate communication on diseases and epidemics that affect citizens Matanzas, contributes to these manifest apathy when you call support medical campaigns, is trust, and do not protect against phenomena that they represent common and not risky.
A year ago died in hospital Faustino Pérez, of the city of Matanzas, Mr. Marcelo Marcial Rivero Alonso, who resided in Cidra, community of the municipality of Union de Reyes. Days before his death, he suffered severe diarrhea, vomiting, fever, thirst, strong cramps in the stomach and decay. These are the symptoms of cholera. However, was diagnosed as a cause of death "septic shock".
"Respiratory Distress (suffering)" was the diagnosis of the doctors at the military Hospital for the death, on 6 September last, Pedro Francisco Rodríguez Díaz, 57-year-old national, who also resided in the town of Cidra. This had entered on day 3, with the symptoms of the influenza A H1N1: increased nasal discharge, high fever, cough, sore throat, vomiting and decay.
It has become common to that to outbreaks of Dengue and Influenza A H1N1 as will affect dozens of citizens in Matanzas territory. An official of the Provincial Center of hygiene and epidemiology   speaks of "suspected cases", not sick, referring to mourners. In this way they try to preserve the false image created on the Cuban health system.
It's no secret to the bureaucrats in the health sector the elementary right of citizens to receive detailed, accurate and timely information.
In the province of Matanzas, a few days ago referred to the municipalities "major problems" in the fight against outbreaks of the mosquito that transmits Dengue (Cardenas, Matanzas, Colon and Jagüey Grande). It is disturbing that they have not mentioned the rest of the affected municipalities.
But cited ambivalent language is not exclusive of officials of State medical institutions. In the national housing body are called "extractions" unfair evictions of people from their homes, planned and led by the ruling party.
The executives in the sector of health and medical staff must report accurately all that put in danger the life of citizens; they have an obligation to abandon his abstract language, because it misinforms and, far from resolving problems, complicates them. It is time for the people to respect and speak frankly.
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http://medicinacubana.blogspot.com/2015/09/cuban-officials-and-doctors-misinform.html

 
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Abandonment and neglect in the health system in Cuba.


It is true that in comparison with African countries and many in Latin America and Asia, in terms of health, Cuba can show impressive achievements, which are presented by the propaganda of the regime as one of the greatest achievements of the revolution.
However, in public health in Cuba, beyond the impressive achievements, there are enough abandonment and neglect. Suffice it to recall that in January 2010, in the Psychiatric Hospital of Mazorra, died of hunger and cold in 26 patients.
The Castro regime, in Exchange for money and political purposes, diverted to other countries health care, to the detriment of the Cuban people.
Since 2002, only for medical services, the Cuban regime has received 120 000 000 $ of the Venezuelan Government.
It also receives annually 2 500 000 dollars on the part of other more than 30 Governments also staffed by Cuban doctors.
No country in the third world has received such amount of money for the export of human resources.
Despite this avalanche of money giving the exportation of medical and paramedical, the Cuban people live, as saying the Spanish, to two servings, of hunger and need.
A few years ago, as reported to the Communist Party by the then Minister of health, José Ramón Balaguer, in Havana there was 300 closed clinics because "their doctors were in Venezuela or other countries".In the other provinces had nearly 500 clinics closed.
For 20 years the regime not dealt with repair of clinics, polyclinics and hospitals. 5 years ago decided to undertake partial repairs (have only made an overhaul in the Hospital "Calixto García", in El Vedado).
Six years ago, a Prince of Saudi Arabia donated 30 million dollars for the reconstruction of the children's Hospital "Pedro Borras", Vedado. But it seems that this donation was used in another thing, because what was that children's hospital is now a heap of ruins. ( Microsoft translator)
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http://medicinacubana.blogspot.com/2015/08/abandonment-and-neglect-in-health.html
 
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squistion said:
And how much does that shortage have to do with the trade embargo? Does Cuba manufacture thermometers or do they have to be imported? (I am guessing the latter).
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I'm going to guess thermometers can be gotten from every country from Jamaica to Mexico to China.

However as I stated above even if the thermometers and other basic supplies like bandages are in short supply because of the embargo that makes the decision to not hold free elections or grant freedoms inherently a health care policy decision.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I'm going to guess thermometers can be gotten from every country from Jamaica to Mexico to China.

However as I stated above even if the thermometers and other basic supplies like bandages are in short supply because of the embargo that makes the decision to not hold free elections or grant freedoms inherently a health care policy decision.
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So can automobiles, but those aren't gotten from every country that could export them either (even if they are used vehicles).

No embargo against China, however, which doesn't hold free elections of grant freedoms inherently either and is no less totalitarian than Castro's Cuba.

 
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squistion said:
So can automobiles, but those aren't gotten from every country that could export them either (even if they are used vehicles).

No embargo against China, however, which doesn't hold free elections of grant freedoms inherently either and is no less totalitarian than Castro's Cuba.
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China is a megastate and they have wildly expanded their economy beyond what Cuba does. And China does not have to alter its politics now but it did in 1989 and the 90s. China did change. Cuba can follow that example or simply hold elections and get this thing over with. I'm not even objecting to the dropping of the embargo (it would be great for my city) but it's obvious why it came into place, and at this point Cuba has less reason to stay communist than we do to maintain the embargo. If Cuba goes glasnost things start improving immediately.

 
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Fidel Castro’s Horrific Record on Gay Rights


Concentration camps for gays. Political prisons where they were treated like ‘beasts.’ ...

Fidel Castro was many things: a revolutionary, a communist, a garrulous orator. Amid the fawning encomia released upon his long-overdue death at the age of 90, it should never be forgotten that he was also an oppressor, torturer, and murderer of gay people. 
“We would never come to believe that a homosexual could embody the conditions and requirements of conduct that would enable us to consider him a true revolutionary, a true communist militant,” Castro told an interviewer in 1965. “A deviation of that nature clashes with the concept we have of what a militant communist should be.” 
In the eyes of Castro and his revolutionary comrade Che Guevara—who frequently referred to gay men as maricones, “######s”—homosexuality was inherently counterrevolutionary, a bourgeois decadence. To a traditional Latin American machismo that viewed gayness pejoratively, they married an ideological fixation treating it as politically undesirable. 
It wasn’t long after Castro came to power that police began rounding up gay men. In 1965, the regime established prison work camps known as Military Units to Aid Production (UMAP), into which it deposited homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and other “undesirable” elements. Alert to this news, the Mattachine Society—one of the earliest gay rights organizations in the United States—held demonstrations outside the United Nations and the White House successively over two days. Four years before the world-famous Stonewall riots, these were two of the first gay rights protests held in the United States. That same year, Allen Ginsberg was expelled from Cuba for spreading rumors that Raul Castro—Fidel’s brother and successor as president—was gay and claiming that Guevara was “cute.” 
Putting gays into concentration camps is not the only practice Castro borrowed from the Nazis. During the Cuban missile crisis, according to recently released German intelligence files, this so-called anti-fascist attempted to hire former SS officers to instruct his army. 
Though the Cuban regime closed down the UMAPs in the late 1960s, it continued to repress gay men as ideologically subversive elements. Openly homosexual people were prevented from joining the Communist Party and fired from their jobs. One of the country’s most distinguished writers, Reinaldo Arenas, recounted the prison experience he and countless other gay men endured in his memoir Before Night Falls. “It was a sweltering place without a bathroom,” he wrote. “Gays were not treated like human beings, they were treated like beasts. They were the last ones to come out for meals, so we saw them walk by, and the most insignificant incident was an excuse to beat them mercilessly.” 
Gays comprised a significant portion of the 125,000 Cubans (“worms,” in Fidel Castro’s words) permitted to leave the island for the United States as part of the 1980 Mariel Boatlift. (The 1984 documentary Improper Conduct, which tells the stories of gay and straight Marielitos, remains one of the starkest indictments of the Castro regime.) When the Human Immunodeficiency Virus hit the island’s gay community in the mid-1980s, the regime’s response was to quarantine all HIV-positive people in sanitariums, referred to as “pretty prisons” by the founder of the World Health Organization’s Global Program for AIDS.  
...
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/27/don-t-forget-fidel-castro-s-brutal-oppression-of-gay-people.html?via=desktop&source=twitter
 
 
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Da Guru said:
Hopefully the US does not send anyone to the funeral.
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That would be regarded as a grave insult, not to Castro but to the nation of Cuba (and perhaps to all the nations that sympathize with them.) no offense, but I'm glad you don't run our State Department. 

 
timschochet said:
Let's just take it as a given that totalitarian, authoritarian, and theocratic states really don't like the gay. 

If you're gay you want to live in a free secular society. (for that matter, if you're anyone you want to live in a free secular society.) 
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Then let's say it together. Castro specifically did this. He was a persecutor and murderer of gays of the first order.

 
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timschochet said:
That would be regarded as a grave insult, not to Castro but to the nation of Cuba (and perhaps to all the nations that sympathize with them.) no offense, but I'm glad you don't run our State Department. 
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Well..on second thought it will probably be one hell of a party.

 
Fidel Castro 'recruited Nazi SS members to train troops during Cuban missile crisis'



Fidel Castro recruited former members of the Nazi Waffen-SS to train his troops at the height of the Cuban missile crisis, declassified German intelligence files show.


...

Papers released this week by the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND) – the German foreign intelligence agency – show information gathered by German operatives 50 years ago during the tense days of the Cuban missile crisis.
They reveal that Castro personally approved a plan to hire former Nazi officers to instruct the Cuban revolutionary army, offering them wages that were four times the average salary in Germany at the time and the chance to start a new life in Havana.
The papers, dating from October 1962, show that four former officers from the elite Nazi death squads had been invited to the Cuban capital, although subsequent reports could only confirm that two had arrived.
...

The conclusion drawn by German secret service officials was that the Cuban regime wanted to free itself from total dependence on Soviet backed training and supplies.

"Evidently, the Cuban revolutionary army did not fear contagion from personal links to Nazism, so long as it served its their own objectives," said Bodo Hechelhammer, historical investigations director at the BND, in an interview with German newspaper Die Welt.

...
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- 2012.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Then let's say it together. Castro specifically did this. He was a persecutor and murderer of gays of the first order.
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There are different orders of gay?  Its all so confusing now.  I long for a simpler time, a time when in an Arnold movie a little boy could state matter of factly that boys have a penis and girls have a ######.

 
So it looks like the funeral will be attended by Maduro, Mugabe, Correa, and a handful of high level delegates from Iran, North Korea, etc.

Such an opportunity to make the world a better place.  One well placed drone strike...

 
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