Fitzgerald and Boldin (1 Viewer)

[chedha]

I know this was talked about in a couple of older threads. I just wanted to create a poll to get an overall view of what people you guys thought on this.

You can't go wrong with either guy obviously. But I don't think both guys will post studly numbers like they did last year. I think one will, and the other will post good WR2 numbers. Both guys pretty much had identical numbers last year, although Boldin missed two games and still posted similiar numbers to fitz.

I'm giving the edge to boldin because 1) Fitz will recieve more attention this year defensively. Not that he didn't last year, but with edge in the backfield, teams can't drop as many guys, and I think the emphasis will be on Fitz in pass coverage, which will create space for Boldin and allow him to be in man to man coverage, which is what you want with either one of these guys. There's no reason for Warner to force the ball to Fitz in bracket coverage, because both guys are unbelievable talents. I think he will take what the defense gives him, and Boldin IMO will be in more favorable match ups, more often. 2) Less balls in the air. They will not pass the ball nearly as much as they did last year, due to edge being in the backfield. They have an established RB now, and they will want to get him his touches. Edge is also a fantastic reciever out of the backfield, which is another ball not going to boldin/fitzgerald. 3) Boldin is a bigger, stronger reciever who is able to fight for tough yards over the middle. His YAC is a major plus to his game, and I think it's part of the reason why his targets were slightly higher than fitz (boldin 171 - fitz 165) and again boldin missed two games.

anyway.. what's your vote?

 

[aussiehockeyfan]

who's cheaper?

 

[gang-wars]

Both very close.

Have to go with Fitz because of the lack of injuries.

Boldin has missed a ton of time in his short career. You just can't ignore that. Regardless, they are 1a and 1b.

And Fitz is younger, and just entering his 3rd year.

 

[Texasmouth]

I have seen several mocks where both of these guys are going in the middle to late third round. BOTH guys.

I think Fitz has the most bang for the buck. He is younger and healthier and for a third round pick, I want the guy who is going to be on the field. Boldin is a stud when he is healthy, but he hasn't proven that he can stay on the field.

I go with Fitz, I think Fitz is going to cement his place as a for sure top three guy this season. I think Harrison will start to taper off and Fitz may even bump Holt out of his spot.

 

[chedha]

Both very close.

Have to go with Fitz because of the lack of injuries.

Boldin has missed a ton of time in his short career. You just can't ignore that. Regardless, they are 1a and 1b.

And Fitz is younger, and just entering his 3rd year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah but Boldin has only been in the league one year more than fitz. I agree it's 1a and 1b, but I think the difference between the two will be a lot greater this year than last year..

 

[chedha]

I have seen several mocks where both of these guys are going in the middle to late third round. BOTH guys.

I think Fitz has the most bang for the buck. He is younger and healthier and for a third round pick, I want the guy who is going to be on the field. Boldin is a stud when he is healthy, but he hasn't proven that he can stay on the field.

I go with Fitz, I think Fitz is going to cement his place as a for sure top three guy this season. I think Harrison will start to taper off and Fitz may even bump Holt out of his spot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boldin had a severe knee injury in the 04 season, but i think he rebounded pretty well with the number he put up. Boldin is 25, fitz is 22.. not a big difference IMO

 

[DrJ]

I have seen several mocks where both of these guys are going in the middle to late third round. BOTH guys.

I think Fitz has the most bang for the buck. He is younger and healthier and for a third round pick, I want the guy who is going to be on the field. Boldin is a stud when he is healthy, but he hasn't proven that he can stay on the field.

I go with Fitz, I think Fitz is going to cement his place as a for sure top three guy this season. I think Harrison will start to taper off and Fitz may even bump Holt out of his spot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boldin had a severe knee injury in the 04 season, but i think he rebounded pretty well with the number he put up. Boldin is 25, fitz is 22.. not a big difference IMO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He also tore an ACL in college. Any time a guy has multiple knee injuries like that, you have to start to wonder how sound the knee is long term...

 

[gang-wars]

I have seen several mocks where both of these guys are going in the middle to late third round. BOTH guys.

I think Fitz has the most bang for the buck. He is younger and healthier and for a third round pick, I want the guy who is going to be on the field. Boldin is a stud when he is healthy, but he hasn't proven that he can stay on the field.

I go with Fitz, I think Fitz is going to cement his place as a for sure top three guy this season. I think Harrison will start to taper off and Fitz may even bump Holt out of his spot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boldin had a severe knee injury in the 04 season, but i think he rebounded pretty well with the number he put up. Boldin is 25, fitz is 22.. not a big difference IMO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When both guys are VERY close, things like "blown out knees" tend to tip the scales a little. Call me crazy, I'll go with the guy who doesn't have a history of knee problems. =) (and who is younger, and still has upside)

 

[Jason Wood]

Whichever one is drafted later...

 

[Imedos]

Whichever one is drafted later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

which is usually Boldin ...I like Boldin more because of the YAC, but Fitz is the superior redzone target.

 

[chedha]

Whichever one is drafted later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So do you think both recievers will post elite numbers like last year? Or do you think one will post far better numbers than the other? I think the cards will run the ball much more this year, which means less opportunity for both of these guys to be in the top 10..

 

[gang-wars]

Whichever one is drafted later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same does for keeper/dynasty? I probably agree in redraft.

 

[BlueOnion]

The head coach has a vested interest in the long term accomplishments of Larry Fitzgerald, because he drafted him.

As a Viking fan and still a fan of Denny Green, the man does play favorites.

 

[valhallan]

Boldin, and I can't believe it's even a question

 

[Z-Dog]

I have seen several mocks where both of these guys are going in the middle to late third round. BOTH guys.

I think Fitz has the most bang for the buck. He is younger and healthier and for a third round pick, I want the guy who is going to be on the field. Boldin is a stud when he is healthy, but he hasn't proven that he can stay on the field.

I go with Fitz, I think Fitz is going to cement his place as a for sure top three guy this season. I think Harrison will start to taper off and Fitz may even bump Holt out of his spot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boldin had a severe knee injury in the 04 season, but i think he rebounded pretty well with the number he put up. Boldin is 25, fitz is 22.. not a big difference IMO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He also tore an ACL in college. Any time a guy has multiple knee injuries like that, you have to start to wonder how sound the knee is long term...
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[Assani Fisher]

Boldin, and I can't believe it's even a question

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anquan Boldin [ 33 ] [48.53%]

Larry Fitzgerald [ 35 ] [51.47%]

Total Votes: 68

Yeah, you're right- this clearly isn't even close.

 

[gang-wars]

Boldin, and I can't believe it's even a question

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question was who is better, not who is cuter.

 

[supermark_28]

i think looking at where both will be drafted is key... fitz gets alot of man love (as he should) and will be 1 of the top 4 of 5 wr's as compared to bolding who's the redheaded stepchild (based on td's and past injuries) and will fall to later rounds... me personally love boldin,his yac is scary but i'm not sold on him for '06

 

[AJ3]

Boldin, and I can't believe it's even a question

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question was who is better, not who is cuter.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, the question inquires as to whom is the better value. Boldin's injuries are a legitimate concern, not to mention red zone targets of Fitz, thus swaying those writers to prefer Fitzgerald. I am personally swayed to choose Boldin due to his excellent recovery, and upon said recovery, his relatively equal performance to that of Fitz, but having done so with two fewer games. I believe that Fitz will suffer in GL looks more than Boldin by the inclusion of Edge in the offense. I believe that Boldin will continue to get his yardage regardless of Edge. Arguably, Edge in the backfield could keep defenses more honest and provide more opportunities for Boldin to succeed. The arguments for each are legitimate, however, I agree with the previous posts by both Jason Wood and Imedos that the one drafted later will offer the greater value, and by all mocks I have viewed, that player is Boldin. My two cents.

 

[Jason Wood]

Whichever one is drafted later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So do you think both recievers will post elite numbers like last year? Or do you think one will post far better numbers than the other? I think the cards will run the ball much more this year, which means less opportunity for both of these guys to be in the top 10..
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Cardinals were 32 in rushing attempts and 1st in passing attempts, then went about signing Edgerrin James. Obviously the goal is to bring those numbers back into better parity. That said, Dennis Green is still an advocate of a dynamic passing attack and has a long and storied history of having multiple WRs produce in the same year.[*]2005 - Fitz (2nd), Boldin (9th)

[*]2004 - No one of consequence (Boldin hurt, Fitz a rookie)

[*]2001 - Moss (5th)

[*]2000 - Moss (1st), Carter (10th)

[*]1999 - Moss (2nd), Carter (3rd)

[*]1998 - Moss (1st), Carter (7th)

[*]1997 - Carter (4th), Reed (16th)

[*]1996 - Carter (7th), Reed (9th)

[*]1995 - Carter (4th), Reed (13th)

[*]1994 - Carter (10th), Reed (14th)

[*]1993 - Carter (5th)

[*]1992 - No one of consequence

Including 2005, five of Denny Green's 12 seasons as a head coach have produced a top-10 fantasy tandem. Another three have resulted in one top-10 WR and another top-16 WR.

Given Boldin's productivity with and without Denny Green (remember Boldin's rookie year), I don't think there's much debate about either he or Fitz's overall ability.

As long as Arizona can get decent QB play from Warner/Leinart; I see little reason to think both guys aren't worth having as fantasy starters at a minimum.

 

[chedha]

Whichever one is drafted later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So do you think both recievers will post elite numbers like last year? Or do you think one will post far better numbers than the other? I think the cards will run the ball much more this year, which means less opportunity for both of these guys to be in the top 10..
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Cardinals were 32 in rushing attempts and 1st in passing attempts, then went about signing Edgerrin James. Obviously the goal is to bring those numbers back into better parity. That said, Dennis Green is still an advocate of a dynamic passing attack and has a long and storied history of having multiple WRs produce in the same year.[*]2005 - Fitz (2nd), Boldin (9th)

[*]2004 - No one of consequence (Boldin hurt, Fitz a rookie)

[*]2001 - Moss (5th)

[*]2000 - Moss (1st), Carter (10th)

[*]1999 - Moss (2nd), Carter (3rd)

[*]1998 - Moss (1st), Carter (7th)

[*]1997 - Carter (4th), Reed (16th)

[*]1996 - Carter (7th), Reed (9th)

[*]1995 - Carter (4th), Reed (13th)

[*]1994 - Carter (10th), Reed (14th)

[*]1993 - Carter (5th)

[*]1992 - No one of consequence

Including 2005, five of Denny Green's 12 seasons as a head coach have produced a top-10 fantasy tandem. Another three have resulted in one top-10 WR and another top-16 WR.

Given Boldin's productivity with and without Denny Green (remember Boldin's rookie year), I don't think there's much debate about either he or Fitz's overall ability.

As long as Arizona can get decent QB play from Warner/Leinart; I see little reason to think both guys aren't worth having as fantasy starters at a minimum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand what your saying, and it makes sense historically. The challenge I guess would be to determine who represents the "Moss" of the current tandem for '06. My selection is Boldin based on my post above. Also, although Robert Smith was a great RB for Green in Minn., he wasn't nearly the reciever out of the backfield that edge is. I think he will play more of a role in the passing attack than people think. This will lessen the WR2 numbers, when comparing them to the '05 season. No question both guys are worth having as fantasy starters. The big payoff IMO is drafting the right WR1...I look at your table above, and compare it to the '95 vikings team. Where Boldin would represent Carter's spot (4th), and Fitz's would be Reed's (13th). And that is the season where the RB, Amp Lee, had 71 receptions for 558yds, and that represents Edge this year IMO.

 

[Jason Wood]

Whichever one is drafted later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So do you think both recievers will post elite numbers like last year? Or do you think one will post far better numbers than the other? I think the cards will run the ball much more this year, which means less opportunity for both of these guys to be in the top 10..
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Cardinals were 32 in rushing attempts and 1st in passing attempts, then went about signing Edgerrin James. Obviously the goal is to bring those numbers back into better parity. That said, Dennis Green is still an advocate of a dynamic passing attack and has a long and storied history of having multiple WRs produce in the same year.[*]2005 - Fitz (2nd), Boldin (9th)

[*]2004 - No one of consequence (Boldin hurt, Fitz a rookie)

[*]2001 - Moss (5th)

[*]2000 - Moss (1st), Carter (10th)

[*]1999 - Moss (2nd), Carter (3rd)

[*]1998 - Moss (1st), Carter (7th)

[*]1997 - Carter (4th), Reed (16th)

[*]1996 - Carter (7th), Reed (9th)

[*]1995 - Carter (4th), Reed (13th)

[*]1994 - Carter (10th), Reed (14th)

[*]1993 - Carter (5th)

[*]1992 - No one of consequence

Including 2005, five of Denny Green's 12 seasons as a head coach have produced a top-10 fantasy tandem. Another three have resulted in one top-10 WR and another top-16 WR.

Given Boldin's productivity with and without Denny Green (remember Boldin's rookie year), I don't think there's much debate about either he or Fitz's overall ability.

As long as Arizona can get decent QB play from Warner/Leinart; I see little reason to think both guys aren't worth having as fantasy starters at a minimum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand what your saying, and it makes sense historically. The challenge I guess would be to determine who represents the "Moss" of the current tandem for '06. My selection is Boldin based on my post above. Also, although Robert Smith was a great RB for Green in Minn., he wasn't nearly the reciever out of the backfield that edge is. I think he will play more of a role in the passing attack than people think. This will lessen the WR2 numbers, when comparing them to the '05 season. No question both guys are worth having as fantasy starters. The big payoff IMO is drafting the right WR1...I look at your table above, and compare it to the '95 vikings team. Where Boldin would represent Carter's spot (4th), and Fitz's would be Reed's (13th). And that is the season where the RB, Amp Lee, had 71 receptions for 558yds, and that represents Edge this year IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edge isn't going to catch 70 balls or close to it; why would you compare him to Amp Lee? You're much better off looking at how the Vikes WRs performed while Robert Smith was in Pro Bowl form IMHO.

 

[chedha]

I have seen several mocks where both of these guys are going in the middle to late third round. BOTH guys.

I think Fitz has the most bang for the buck. He is younger and healthier and for a third round pick, I want the guy who is going to be on the field. Boldin is a stud when he is healthy, but he hasn't proven that he can stay on the field.

I go with Fitz, I think Fitz is going to cement his place as a for sure top three guy this season. I think Harrison will start to taper off and Fitz may even bump Holt out of his spot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boldin had a severe knee injury in the 04 season, but i think he rebounded pretty well with the number he put up. Boldin is 25, fitz is 22.. not a big difference IMO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When both guys are VERY close, things like "blown out knees" tend to tip the scales a little. Call me crazy, I'll go with the guy who doesn't have a history of knee problems. =) (and who is younger, and still has upside)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People are so scared away by the guys knee problem. Did you see how the guy finshed the season last year?? The guy averaged 112yds/game for the last 7 games of the season. Where do the ill effects of this knee injury show up in the numbers??

 

[chedha]

Whichever one is drafted later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So do you think both recievers will post elite numbers like last year? Or do you think one will post far better numbers than the other? I think the cards will run the ball much more this year, which means less opportunity for both of these guys to be in the top 10..
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Cardinals were 32 in rushing attempts and 1st in passing attempts, then went about signing Edgerrin James. Obviously the goal is to bring those numbers back into better parity. That said, Dennis Green is still an advocate of a dynamic passing attack and has a long and storied history of having multiple WRs produce in the same year.[*]2005 - Fitz (2nd), Boldin (9th)

[*]2004 - No one of consequence (Boldin hurt, Fitz a rookie)

[*]2001 - Moss (5th)

[*]2000 - Moss (1st), Carter (10th)

[*]1999 - Moss (2nd), Carter (3rd)

[*]1998 - Moss (1st), Carter (7th)

[*]1997 - Carter (4th), Reed (16th)

[*]1996 - Carter (7th), Reed (9th)

[*]1995 - Carter (4th), Reed (13th)

[*]1994 - Carter (10th), Reed (14th)

[*]1993 - Carter (5th)

[*]1992 - No one of consequence

Including 2005, five of Denny Green's 12 seasons as a head coach have produced a top-10 fantasy tandem. Another three have resulted in one top-10 WR and another top-16 WR.

Given Boldin's productivity with and without Denny Green (remember Boldin's rookie year), I don't think there's much debate about either he or Fitz's overall ability.

As long as Arizona can get decent QB play from Warner/Leinart; I see little reason to think both guys aren't worth having as fantasy starters at a minimum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand what your saying, and it makes sense historically. The challenge I guess would be to determine who represents the "Moss" of the current tandem for '06. My selection is Boldin based on my post above. Also, although Robert Smith was a great RB for Green in Minn., he wasn't nearly the reciever out of the backfield that edge is. I think he will play more of a role in the passing attack than people think. This will lessen the WR2 numbers, when comparing them to the '05 season. No question both guys are worth having as fantasy starters. The big payoff IMO is drafting the right WR1...I look at your table above, and compare it to the '95 vikings team. Where Boldin would represent Carter's spot (4th), and Fitz's would be Reed's (13th). And that is the season where the RB, Amp Lee, had 71 receptions for 558yds, and that represents Edge this year IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edge isn't going to catch 70 balls or close to it; why would you compare him to Amp Lee? You're much better off looking at how the Vikes WRs performed while Robert Smith was in Pro Bowl form IMHO.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not saying he's going to catch 70 balls at all. I'm just saying that having a RB that is an effective pass catcher, can have an impact on the WR2 numbers. This will be the case this year IMO, so people shouldn't expect the elite numbers that were posted last year for BOTH guys...

 

[Kleck.]

Whichever one is drafted later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[Shermanator]

Boldin, and I can't believe it's even a question

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anquan Boldin [ 33 ] [48.53%]

Larry Fitzgerald [ 35 ] [51.47%]

Total Votes: 68

Yeah, you're right- this clearly isn't even close.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boldin represents better value. Either receiver can be a teams #1 wr. Boldin will go at least a round after Fitz. Thus easily making Quan the value pick of the two. No one is really disputing who the better receiver is. But its not close as to who is the better value.

 

[kutta]

Whichever one is drafted later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So do you think both recievers will post elite numbers like last year? Or do you think one will post far better numbers than the other? I think the cards will run the ball much more this year, which means less opportunity for both of these guys to be in the top 10..
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A couple things:1. I'm not so sure that Edge is going to hurt Boldin and Fitz all that much. One of the biggest problems with this offense last year was the innability to convert short yardage, especially 3rd and 1 or 2. Edge will give them the ability to do this, resulting in more sustained drives, less FG's, and most likely more offensive TD's.

2. Fitz is more of a sideline guy, and Boldin goes over the middle more. Hence Fitz is often isolated in one-on-one coverage, where Boldin saw double teams from the safety hanging back in coverage. The addition of Edge will require more guys in the box and should result in easier coverage for the WR's to exploit. I contend that Boldin will be more the benificiary of this easier coverage than Fitz since Boldin goes over the middle more.

3. The addition of Pope may also help free up the middle of the field. The Cards TE's last year were completely MIA, and the hope is that Pope can come in and contribute with the short route in the middle of the field.

So sure, it will be amazing if Fitz and Boldin repeat their performances from last year. But I don't know if the addition of Edge will be the reason they don't repeat. A more plausible reason would be an injury to Warner.

 

[Tau837]

While I like Boldin a lot, I think 4 things make Fitz a higher ranked fantasy WR:

1. Injury history.

This has already been covered. Boldin has a history that includes serious injuries, Fitz doesn't.

2. Age.

Fitz is 22, Boldin is 25. For dynasty, it is obvious that the player 3 years younger is preferable. But I would argue that it is also important in redraft, at least in this case. Fitz is so young that he is still maturing, both physically and in his understanding of the game. Boldin is already on the front edge of his prime.

3. Yardage.

Everyone raves about Boldin's YAC. But I think some fail to realize Fitz has averaged more yards per catch (Fitz 13.6 career, Boldin 13.1). So, yes, Boldin's YAC is great, but it doesn't lead to an edge in yardage or an edge in scoring (see point #4).

4. Scoring.

Boldin has 16 TDs on 259 receptions in 40 games. 1 TD every 16.2 receptions and 1 TD every 2.5 games.

Fitz has 18 TDs on 161 receptions in 32 games. 1 TD every 8.9 receptions and 1 TD every 1.8 games.

TDs are definitely volatile, but it is hard not to conclude that Fitz is more likely to score, whether due to better ability in the red zone, due to Warner's tendency to prefer him in the red zone, whatever.

I don't feel confident in predicting much of a gap between them in receptions or receiving yards. It is just too hard (for me) to figure out which one of them will have more of either, and by how much. This means I have to believe Fitz will score more fantasy points.

So I think Fitz should be taken ahead of Boldin. To answer the poll question then requires answering these two questions:

1. How much better will Fitz be?

2. How much later than Fitz will Boldin be drafted?

For example, if the two of them are drafted within two or three picks of one another, then Fitz will be the better value. So it isn't correct to blindly say that the one drafted later is the better value. You need to know how much later.

As with all such discussions, it depends on how it shapes the rest of your draft. If you can take Boldin at least a round later, then the question is whether the combination of (player instead of Fitz) + Boldin is better than Fitz + (player instead of Boldin). We can't really answer unless we know who the other players are.

In general, if Boldin is taken a round later than Fitz, I would assume he will be the better value. But I would be surprised if that happens often. If the gap is less than one round, I think it becomes a toss up, and probably favors Fitz.

 

[Shermanator]

While I like Boldin a lot, I think 4 things make Fitz a higher ranked fantasy WR:

1. Injury history.

This has already been covered.  Boldin has a history that includes serious injuries, Fitz doesn't.

2. Age.

Fitz is 22, Boldin is 25.  For dynasty, it is obvious that the player 3 years younger is preferable.  But I would argue that it is also important in redraft, at least in this case.  Fitz is so young that he is still maturing, both physically and in his understanding of the game.  Boldin is already on the front edge of his prime.

3. Yardage.

Everyone raves about Boldin's YAC.  But I think some fail to realize Fitz has averaged more yards per catch (Fitz 13.6 career, Boldin 13.1).  So, yes, Boldin's YAC is great, but it doesn't lead to an edge in yardage or an edge in scoring (see point #4).

4. Scoring.

Boldin has 16 TDs on 259 receptions in 40 games. 1 TD every 16.2 receptions and 1 TD every 2.5 games.

Fitz has 18 TDs on 161 receptions in 32 games. 1 TD every 8.9 receptions and 1 TD every 1.8 games.

TDs are definitely volatile, but it is hard not to conclude that Fitz is more likely to score, whether due to better ability in the red zone, due to Warner's tendency to prefer him in the red zone, whatever.

I don't feel confident in predicting much of a gap between them in receptions or receiving yards.  It is just too hard (for me) to figure out which one of them will have more of either, and by how much.  This means I have to believe Fitz will score more fantasy points.

So I think Fitz should be taken ahead of Boldin.  To answer the poll question then requires answering these two questions:

1. How much better will Fitz be?

2. How much later than Fitz will Boldin be drafted?

For example, if the two of them are drafted within two or three picks of one another, then Fitz will be the better value.  So it isn't correct to blindly say that the one drafted later is the better value.  You need to know how much later.

As with all such discussions, it depends on how it shapes the rest of your draft.  If you can take Boldin at least a round later, then the question is whether the combination of (player instead of Fitz) + Boldin is better than Fitz + (player instead of Boldin).  We can't really answer unless we know who the other players are.

In general, if Boldin is taken a round later than Fitz, I would assume he will be the better value.  But I would be surprised if that happens often.  If the gap is less than one round, I think it becomes a toss up, and probably favors Fitz.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

nicely put

 

[gang-wars]

I have seen several mocks where both of these guys are going in the middle to late third round. BOTH guys.

I think Fitz has the most bang for the buck. He is younger and healthier and for a third round pick, I want the guy who is going to be on the field. Boldin is a stud when he is healthy, but he hasn't proven that he can stay on the field.

I go with Fitz, I think Fitz is going to cement his place as a for sure top three guy this season. I think Harrison will start to taper off and Fitz may even bump Holt out of his spot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boldin had a severe knee injury in the 04 season, but i think he rebounded pretty well with the number he put up. Boldin is 25, fitz is 22.. not a big difference IMO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When both guys are VERY close, things like "blown out knees" tend to tip the scales a little. Call me crazy, I'll go with the guy who doesn't have a history of knee problems. =) (and who is younger, and still has upside)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People are so scared away by the guys knee problem. Did you see how the guy finshed the season last year?? The guy averaged 112yds/game for the last 7 games of the season. Where do the ill effects of this knee injury show up in the numbers??
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Finished last season?Did you see the ENTIRE 2005 season? Fitz was the #2 WR overall.

Again, all thinks being equal, I take the guy who hasn't had any major injuries.

 

[Bri]

interesting debate, bump

 

[thatguy]

Damn this is close.

I voted for Boldin. I have a feeling he'll be drafted on average a round or so later than Fitz. It seems the consensus is that one of them will drop off, but I just don't see that happening. Both are extremely talented. I think, if anything, Edge will be a benefit to them both.

Fitz is younger. Boldin is injury prone. This must all be taken into account certainly. Still, I'll happily pass on Fitz if it means I get Boldin ten picks later (about one round assuming I pick somewhere in the middle).

Fitz may be more of a redzone threat, but Boldin has that mean streak and is as good after the catch as anyone. He makes some absolutely ridiculous plays. I see them both being featured often this year.

After writing this, I read Just Win Baby's post, and realized he said pretty much the same thing, and he said it better, but I'll post regardless.

I don't know. I guess I just prefer Boldin, but I'm probably biased because he is one of my absolute favorite players to watch, right up there with LT and LJ.

What I'd love, in redraft or dynasty, would be to get the number 1 pick, and get LJ in the first, then Fitz and Boldin in rounds 2 and 3, then snag Droughns, maybe KJ in the 4th, and get Dayne in 5 or 6. That would be a nice start. I doubt Fitz will fall that far though.

 

[chedha]

While I like Boldin a lot, I think 4 things make Fitz a higher ranked fantasy WR:

2. Age.

Fitz is 22, Boldin is 25.  For dynasty, it is obvious that the player 3 years younger is preferable.  But I would argue that it is also important in redraft, at least in this case.  Fitz is so young that he is still maturing, both physically and in his understanding of the game.  Boldin is already on the front edge of his prime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really don't see how three years makes all that much difference, even when we're talking dynasty. At 25, Boldin is just entering his prime, and Fitz is right behind him. Isn't this just splitting hairs when evaluating these too?

3. Yardage.

Everyone raves about Boldin's YAC.  But I think some fail to realize Fitz has averaged more yards per catch (Fitz 13.6 career, Boldin 13.1).  So, yes, Boldin's YAC is great, but it doesn't lead to an edge in yardage or an edge in scoring (see point #4).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yards per catch is pretty much identical. What YAC does lead to an edge in the team gaining a first down he has the ball. It also leads to an increase in targets, because it shows good things happen when the ball is in his hands. This is part of the reason why he was only 7 yards behind fitz in recieving yards, while missing two full games.

4. Scoring.

Boldin has 16 TDs on 259 receptions in 40 games. 1 TD every 16.2 receptions and 1 TD every 2.5 games. Fitz has 18 TDs on 161 receptions in 32 games. 1 TD every 8.9 receptions and 1 TD every 1.8 games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok let's shrink the data set to last year, since this is what we're more than likely to see this year. Boldin is at 1TD every 14.6 receptions, Fitz had 1TD every 10.3. So yes Fitz had more td's than boldin last year, but it was only three more. It's hard to forecast td's for receivers, but I believe Boldin is just as viable of a redzone target as Fitz. Like I said before, the edge factor means less guys in coverage, which means more favorable matchups for boldin since the #1 corner is usually on Fitz.

TDs are definitely volatile, but it is hard not to conclude that Fitz is more likely to score, whether due to better ability in the red zone, due to Warner's tendency to prefer him in the red zone, whatever.

I don't feel confident in predicting much of a gap between them in receptions or receiving yards.  It is just too hard (for me) to figure out which one of them will have more of either, and by how much.  This means I have to believe Fitz will score more fantasy points.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree TD's are volatile, and it's difficult to predict. My original post is my prediction of how things will go this will play out this season. But you believe Fitz will score more fantasy points, even though Boldin averaged more FP/gm than Fitz? 13.4 to 12.8? I know it's a small difference, but it is an indication as to who was producing more on a per game basis.

So I think Fitz should be taken ahead of Boldin.  To answer the poll question then requires answering these two questions:

1. How much better will Fitz be?

2. How much later than Fitz will Boldin be drafted?

For example, if the two of them are drafted within two or three picks of one another, then Fitz will be the better value.  So it isn't correct to blindly say that the one drafted later is the better value.  You need to know how much later.

As with all such discussions, it depends on how it shapes the rest of your draft.  If you can take Boldin at least a round later, then the question is whether the combination of (player instead of Fitz) + Boldin is better than Fitz + (player instead of Boldin).  We can't really answer unless we know who the other players are.

In general, if Boldin is taken a round later than Fitz, I would assume he will be the better value.  But I would be surprised if that happens often.  If the gap is less than one round, I think it becomes a toss up, and probably favors Fitz.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with what you said here, except that i believe boldin will out-perform fitz this season. Therefore he should be taken ahead of him..

 

[chedha]

Interesting.. Dead heat even though Fitz is considered "the guy" this year...

 

[Tau837]

2. Age.

Fitz is 22, Boldin is 25.  For dynasty, it is obvious that the player 3 years younger is preferable.  But I would argue that it is also important in redraft, at least in this case.  Fitz is so young that he is still maturing, both physically and in his understanding of the game.  Boldin is already on the front edge of his prime.

I really don't see how three years makes all that much difference, even when we're talking dynasty. At 25, Boldin is just entering his prime, and Fitz is right behind him. Isn't this just splitting hairs when evaluating these too?

Well, first off, when you are comparing two guys that are very close, all differences are small.Now, if one is more likely to improve than the other, isn't it the guy who is 3 years younger and 1 less year in the league? That is my point on age.

3. Yardage.

Everyone raves about Boldin's YAC.  But I think some fail to realize Fitz has averaged more yards per catch (Fitz 13.6 career, Boldin 13.1).  So, yes, Boldin's YAC is great, but it doesn't lead to an edge in yardage or an edge in scoring (see point #4).

Yards per catch is pretty much identical. What YAC does lead to an edge in the team gaining a first down he has the ball. It also leads to an increase in targets, because it shows good things happen when the ball is in his hands. This is part of the reason why he was only 7 yards behind fitz in recieving yards, while missing two full games.

Perhaps you can explain the bolded statement, since I don't get it. Their ypc:Boldin 13.1 career, 13.7 last year

Fitz 13.6 career, 13.7 last year

If they average the same ypc (or Fitz averages more if you choose to examine career numbers), how does Boldin's YAC give him an edge in first downs?

Last year, Boldin had 68 first downs on 102 catches and 171 targets, compared to Fitz with 67 first downs on 103 catches and 165 targets. In 2004, Fitz had 36 first downs on 58 catches and 104 targets, compared to Boldin with 33 first downs on 56 catches on 102 targets. I see no advantage in gaining first downs for Boldin.

It is true that Boldin has gotten more targets, but that does not stem from a greater ability to get first downs, as you claimed. Also, note that in 2004, Boldin averaged 10.2 targets to Fitz's 6.5. Many (including me) looked at that last offseason and projected Boldin to be be much better than Fitz. However, in 2005 Boldin got 12.2 targets per game and Fitz got 10.3. Who's to say the gap won't narrow further?

4. Scoring.

Boldin has 16 TDs on 259 receptions in 40 games. 1 TD every 16.2 receptions and 1 TD every 2.5 games. Fitz has 18 TDs on 161 receptions in 32 games. 1 TD every 8.9 receptions and 1 TD every 1.8 games.

ok let's shrink the data set to last year, since this is what we're more than likely to see this year. Boldin is at 1TD every 14.6 receptions, Fitz had 1TD every 10.3. So yes Fitz had more td's than boldin last year, but it was only three more. It's hard to forecast td's for receivers, but I believe Boldin is just as viable of a redzone target as Fitz. Like I said before, the edge factor means less guys in coverage, which means more favorable matchups for boldin since the #1 corner is usually on Fitz.

Of course you want to shrink the data set to last year for this part of the discussion. Over the two years both have been in the offense, Fitz has 18 TDs to Boldin's 8. And don't say it is because Boldin missed games--Fitz only scored 3 of those TDs in the games Boldin missed, so Fitz outscored Boldin 15 to 8 in games both played. That is a large gap. On top of that, Fitz has been consistent, with 8 and 10 TDs in his two seasons, whereas Boldin has been inconsistent, with 8, 1, and 7 TDs in his two seasons. And given that entering the league Fitz was known for his body control and hands and had a reputation for being good in the red zone, I'm not inclined to dismiss all this evidence. Boldin would certainly seem to be a great red zone option from a skill standpoint. Who can forget his TD last year where he shook off a few defenders and ran it in? That said, over the past two years, Boldin has 23 red zone targets but only 4 TDs on those targets. Compared to Fitz with 9 TDs in 22 red zone targets over the same span. I'm not sure why Fitz has been more productive in the red zone, but he has been. Can you explain it? Maybe this is a case where Boldin's YAC actually hurts him... perhaps more of Fitz's targets are actually in the end zone, whereas Boldin's are outside it, giving him an opportunity to run it in...?

TDs are definitely volatile, but it is hard not to conclude that Fitz is more likely to score, whether due to better ability in the red zone, due to Warner's tendency to prefer him in the red zone, whatever.

I don't feel confident in predicting much of a gap between them in receptions or receiving yards.  It is just too hard (for me) to figure out which one of them will have more of either, and by how much.  This means I have to believe Fitz will score more fantasy points.

I agree TD's are volatile, and it's difficult to predict. My original post is my prediction of how things will go this will play out this season. But you believe Fitz will score more fantasy points, even though Boldin averaged more FP/gm than Fitz? 13.4 to 12.8? I know it's a small difference, but it is an indication as to who was producing more on a per game basis.

Perhaps it wasn't clear that I was saying I don't know how to separate the two on receptions & yards. Given my belief that Fitz will score more TDs, that means more fantasy points for Fitz. Let's say Fitz scores 3 more TDs, like last season. That means Boldin needs 180 more yards than Fitz just to break even with typical non-PPR FBG scoring. I just don't see the justification for Boldin to have that many more yards.And on top of all that is the injury factor, which you wisely ignored since you are arguing for Boldin.

Good discussion. And let me reiterate that I really like both guys.

 

[remote controller]

I se Fitz as the more valuable #1 due to his usage in the redzone. Boldin is a fine 1B for stud Rb drafters and sees his number called between the 20's. If you get points for receptions his stock rises.

 

[Dancing Bear]

The original post asks who presents more value ...

To be clear, to me they represent the same Fantasy potential with respect to points, and they will finish with less than 1 ppg difference between them and both be among the Top 10 WR's.

Because of the fact that Boldin has the history of injury and Fitzgerald has some other perceived pluses, he will go first in most Fantasy drafts. Boldin will fall further down these drafts and therefore represent more value for your draft pick.

Unless you are playing against chimpanzees there is little chance that they both will fall to you; if either does, then select whoever falls into your lap and be pleased as they produce week in, week out.

 

[remote controller]

case closed..............next

for all of us Chimps that is

 

[Twisters]

wow 93-92

 

[joffer]

wow 93-92

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tied it up I like Boldin a little more right now, but that could change.

 

[David Yudkin]

In terms of VALUE, I tend to think neither one of these guys will be great picks. As I see it, they didn't add Edge to have two WR get 100 receptions and 1400 yards. IMO, both Fitz and Boldin's numbers will dip some and for 3rd round picks I don't see them ranking where they will be selected (although both should have solid seasons). With both on the team, I think it's unlikely that one will far outperform the other to outproduce his draft position. If each guy gets around 80/1200/6 would either one of them be considered value picks in the 3rd round?

 

[Red Herring]

I voted Fitz. Both have their strengths, and are roughly equal, so the bottom line is the injury factor. Considering where you would have to draft either of these guys, having that high a pick missing games could equate to a loss or 2. With 14 games at best in most FF regular seasons, that can make a huge difference.

To answer chedha: Yes, 3 extra years out of a superior performer makes a huge difference in dynasty. Not to mention you are talking an extra 3 years vs a guy who has already had injuries that have probably shortened his career, even should he never have another knee problem again.

 

[BassNBrew]

Anquan Boldin [ 96 ]   [50.00%] Larry Fitzgerald [ 96 ]   [50.00%] Total Votes: 192
Glad to see this question resolved.

 

[cracKer]

Boldin < superior talent < Fitzgerald

Boldin > better value > Fitzgerald

simple enough

Anquan Boldin [ 98 ]   [50.26%] Larry Fitzgerald [ 97 ]   [49.74%]

 

[chedha]

2. Age.

Fitz is 22, Boldin is 25.  For dynasty, it is obvious that the player 3 years younger is preferable.  But I would argue that it is also important in redraft, at least in this case.  Fitz is so young that he is still maturing, both physically and in his understanding of the game.  Boldin is already on the front edge of his prime.

I really don't see how three years makes all that much difference, even when we're talking dynasty. At 25, Boldin is just entering his prime, and Fitz is right behind him. Isn't this just splitting hairs when evaluating these too?

Well, first off, when you are comparing two guys that are very close, all differences are small.Now, if one is more likely to improve than the other, isn't it the guy who is 3 years younger and 1 less year in the league? That is my point on age.

3. Yardage.

Everyone raves about Boldin's YAC.  But I think some fail to realize Fitz has averaged more yards per catch (Fitz 13.6 career, Boldin 13.1).  So, yes, Boldin's YAC is great, but it doesn't lead to an edge in yardage or an edge in scoring (see point #4).

Yards per catch is pretty much identical. What YAC does lead to an edge in the team gaining a first down he has the ball. It also leads to an increase in targets, because it shows good things happen when the ball is in his hands. This is part of the reason why he was only 7 yards behind fitz in recieving yards, while missing two full games.

Perhaps you can explain the bolded statement, since I don't get it. Their ypc:Boldin 13.1 career, 13.7 last year

Fitz 13.6 career, 13.7 last year

If they average the same ypc (or Fitz averages more if you choose to examine career numbers), how does Boldin's YAC give him an edge in first downs?

Last year, Boldin had 68 first downs on 102 catches and 171 targets, compared to Fitz with 67 first downs on 103 catches and 165 targets. In 2004, Fitz had 36 first downs on 58 catches and 104 targets, compared to Boldin with 33 first downs on 56 catches on 102 targets. I see no advantage in gaining first downs for Boldin.

It is true that Boldin has gotten more targets, but that does not stem from a greater ability to get first downs, as you claimed. Also, note that in 2004, Boldin averaged 10.2 targets to Fitz's 6.5. Many (including me) looked at that last offseason and projected Boldin to be be much better than Fitz. However, in 2005 Boldin got 12.2 targets per game and Fitz got 10.3. Who's to say the gap won't narrow further?

4. Scoring.

Boldin has 16 TDs on 259 receptions in 40 games. 1 TD every 16.2 receptions and 1 TD every 2.5 games. Fitz has 18 TDs on 161 receptions in 32 games. 1 TD every 8.9 receptions and 1 TD every 1.8 games.

ok let's shrink the data set to last year, since this is what we're more than likely to see this year. Boldin is at 1TD every 14.6 receptions, Fitz had 1TD every 10.3. So yes Fitz had more td's than boldin last year, but it was only three more. It's hard to forecast td's for receivers, but I believe Boldin is just as viable of a redzone target as Fitz. Like I said before, the edge factor means less guys in coverage, which means more favorable matchups for boldin since the #1 corner is usually on Fitz.

Of course you want to shrink the data set to last year for this part of the discussion. Over the two years both have been in the offense, Fitz has 18 TDs to Boldin's 8. And don't say it is because Boldin missed games--Fitz only scored 3 of those TDs in the games Boldin missed, so Fitz outscored Boldin 15 to 8 in games both played. That is a large gap. On top of that, Fitz has been consistent, with 8 and 10 TDs in his two seasons, whereas Boldin has been inconsistent, with 8, 1, and 7 TDs in his two seasons. And given that entering the league Fitz was known for his body control and hands and had a reputation for being good in the red zone, I'm not inclined to dismiss all this evidence. Boldin would certainly seem to be a great red zone option from a skill standpoint. Who can forget his TD last year where he shook off a few defenders and ran it in? That said, over the past two years, Boldin has 23 red zone targets but only 4 TDs on those targets. Compared to Fitz with 9 TDs in 22 red zone targets over the same span. I'm not sure why Fitz has been more productive in the red zone, but he has been. Can you explain it? Maybe this is a case where Boldin's YAC actually hurts him... perhaps more of Fitz's targets are actually in the end zone, whereas Boldin's are outside it, giving him an opportunity to run it in...?

TDs are definitely volatile, but it is hard not to conclude that Fitz is more likely to score, whether due to better ability in the red zone, due to Warner's tendency to prefer him in the red zone, whatever.

I don't feel confident in predicting much of a gap between them in receptions or receiving yards.  It is just too hard (for me) to figure out which one of them will have more of either, and by how much.  This means I have to believe Fitz will score more fantasy points.

I agree TD's are volatile, and it's difficult to predict. My original post is my prediction of how things will go this will play out this season. But you believe Fitz will score more fantasy points, even though Boldin averaged more FP/gm than Fitz? 13.4 to 12.8? I know it's a small difference, but it is an indication as to who was producing more on a per game basis.

Perhaps it wasn't clear that I was saying I don't know how to separate the two on receptions & yards. Given my belief that Fitz will score more TDs, that means more fantasy points for Fitz. Let's say Fitz scores 3 more TDs, like last season. That means Boldin needs 180 more yards than Fitz just to break even with typical non-PPR FBG scoring. I just don't see the justification for Boldin to have that many more yards.And on top of all that is the injury factor, which you wisely ignored since you are arguing for Boldin.

Good discussion. And let me reiterate that I really like both guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You make some good points here, and they are all valid. I guess I just have a different view as to how this will play out this year, in terms of who will out-produce the other. By the way your not suppose to get what I mean in that quote above, because it makes absolutely no sense . The way it should have read is, YAC leads to an increase in the chances a team will get a first down, when the ball is in a guy like Boldin's hands. This may be one reason why Boldin recieved more targets overall than larry. I'm not ignoring Boldin's injury risk at all. My only point is if you look at the last seven games of the season, you'll see by his numbers that he showed no ill-effects of the injury at all. I'm just of he believe that Boldin will be in favorable match-ups all year, and have less defenders to deal with in the secondary. That to me = value, especially when you'll have to spend a 2nd on fitz, and Boldin will more than likely be available later than that. Why not grab Boldin instead? The chances are higher that he'll out play his draft position being a 3rd or 4th rd pick? I even think, like i said, that he will post better numbers than fitz for the year...

 

[chedha]

Boldin < superior talent < Fitzgerald

Boldin > better value > Fitzgerald

simple enough

Anquan Boldin [ 98 ]   [50.26%] Larry Fitzgerald [ 97 ]   [49.74%]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem is with his injury history, many think boldin may not be of better value either..

 

[chedha]

In terms of VALUE, I tend to think neither one of these guys will be great picks.  As I see it, they didn't add Edge to have two WR get 100 receptions and 1400 yards. IMO, both Fitz and Boldin's numbers will dip some and for 3rd round picks I don't see them ranking where they will be selected (although both should have solid seasons).  With both on the team, I think it's unlikely that one will far outperform the other to outproduce his draft position.  If each guy gets around 80/1200/6 would either one of them be considered value picks in the 3rd round?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. That's my point exactly, except that I don't think BOTH will experience a drop off in production. I think one will, and the other will post top 5 numbers again. I see Boldin as a top 5, and fitz just outside of the top 10..

 

[Madscott]

From the couple of mocks that I've seen around different places so far, I think Boldin will be the better pick. Simply put, I think Fitz is being overdrafted or drafted too high from what I've seen. I'm going to guess that Fitz probably will have an ADP hovering in the top 5 while Boldin will be closer to 10. Potentially, you could grab a S. Smith/TO/Holt/CJ type WR for your WR1 and then come back in the next rd. and get Boldin as your WR2.

 

[thejag]

This may be the best thread for the 2006 season thus far. Thanks to everyone who has posted thoughts in here. This will be one of the ADP battles I am really keying on this year.

The one thing that I really like about both of them for '06 is the Cards' schedule:

2006 Schedule

Date Opponent Time

Sep 10 San Francisco 4:15pm

Sep 17 @Seattle 4:05pm

Sep 24 St. Louis 4:15pm

Oct 1 @Atlanta 1:00pm

Oct 8 Kansas City 4:05pm

Oct 16 Chicago 8:30pm

Oct 22 @Oakland 4:15pm

Oct 29 @Green Bay 1:00pm

Week 9 BYE

Nov 12 Dallas 4:15pm

Nov 19 Detroit 4:05pm

Nov 26 @Minnesota 1:00pm

Dec 3 @St. Louis 1:00pm

Dec 10 Seattle 4:05pm

Dec 17 Denver 4:05pm

Dec 24 @San Francisco 4:05pm

Dec 31 @San Diego 4:15pm

The schedule doesn't look too bad as far as pass defenses, with most of the tougher ones at home.

I think that if you end up with either of these two studs, you just watch (if you can find them on network TV) and enjoy.

 

[Madscott]

This may be the best thread for the 2006 season thus far. Thanks to everyone who has posted thoughts in here. This will be one of the ADP battles I am really keying on this year.

The one thing that I really like about both of them for '06 is the Cards' schedule:

2006 Schedule

Date        Opponent            Time

Sep 10    San Francisco      4:15pm

Sep 17    @Seattle              4:05pm

Sep 24    St. Louis              4:15pm

Oct 1      @Atlanta              1:00pm

Oct 8      Kansas City        4:05pm

Oct 16    Chicago              8:30pm

Oct 22    @Oakland            4:15pm

Oct 29    @Green Bay        1:00pm

Week 9    BYE 

Nov 12    Dallas                4:15pm

Nov 19    Detroit                4:05pm

Nov 26    @Minnesota          1:00pm

Dec 3      @St. Louis            1:00pm

Dec 10    Seattle                4:05pm

Dec 17    Denver                4:05pm

Dec 24    @San Francisco  4:05pm

Dec 31    @San Diego        4:15pm

The schedule doesn't look too bad as far as pass defenses, with most of the tougher ones at home.

I think that if you end up with either of these two studs, you just watch (if you can find them on network TV) and enjoy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So hard to project out how teams change from one year to the next though. I see alot of teams on that list that have done some major offseason work in their secondaries. I'm not saying it will all be successful, just don't expect the cakewalk that it may look like.