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Footballguys Subscription Changes (2 Viewers)

Dr. Brew said:
Exactly.

They have tried to keep up with the times but have really lost a hold of why they were so great to begin with. And I get it. Things change people change. Frustrating.
I have offered my services for free to comment on injuries, anatomy, rehab, etc. I believe it was back in 2014. They put me in contact with Dr. Bramel. I kind of got the brush off from Dr. Bramel "yeah that's great I'll let you know if I need anything" and never heard from him again... I'd think when you have professionals volunteering their time they'd take more than a minute to consider it. I am a doctor of physical therapy. Our knowledge of the body/anatomy/recovery is second only to orthopedic surgeons (documented). No offense to Dr. Bramel but a pediatrician is not who I go to for advice on anatomy, kinesiology, and rehab. I wouldn't ask a neurologist advice on a cardiac problem

It's things like this that make me think if they really are offering the best information they can for their subscribers. I was offering my services/expertise just because it's what I do, I love it and I'm great at it. 

If someone from FBG reads this and cares, my offer still stands... 
Or if anyone reads this and wants to PM me or post specifically at me about injuries or those sorts of things I'd be more than willing to respond. 
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I agree, I love your posts.  I've been picking your brain regarding Dez Bryant.  Honestly it's the first I've seen you around. (My first injury this year) Keep doing what your doing. This message board can be a great thing for the few of us that like to dive into X's and O's :thumbup:

 
The path to Hell for a business is thinking you are so good and so smart that you do not feel you need to listen to your customers. 

This seems to be a recurring theme here, in this thread and in other threads across this forum. instead of going into an immediately defensive posture, why not actually read the message the customer is sending to you and try to use it to improve your product?  This may be difficult to believe, but the vast majority send those messages because they care about the product you provide.

Just a nickel's worth of free advice...

 
I almost didn't re-up this year but really enjoy and rely on the IDP content. Next year it will probably come down to the wire again if I subscribe.

Enjoy playing in deep IDP leagues and that information is very valuable. With posters like @massraider like IDP forums are just as much a resource as the staff content. 

 
Bronco Billy said:
The path to Hell for a business is thinking you are so good and so smart that you do not feel you need to listen to your customers. 

This seems to be a recurring theme here, in this thread and in other threads across this forum. instead of going into an immediately defensive posture, why not actually read the message the customer is sending to you and try to use it to improve your product?  This may be difficult to believe, but the vast majority send those messages because they care about the product you provide.

Just a nickel's worth of free advice...
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Well said.

This was the first year that I was disappointed that I did the 3yr plan.  It seems like the technology, content ant timing for the season long players has gone down hill.  We might both be wrong here because maybe the majority of there customers are clamoring for better DFS coverage.  It doesn't appear that way from the message boards but I can't know for certain.

My 3 yrs is up after this season.  I will have a hard time paying again if the trend continues.

 
Difference seems to be in my opinion that they have so much sponsorship money rolling in from FanDuel that it offsets that.  They are basically working for FanDuel.  Most of the daily articles are about FanDuel.  Last year it was DraftKings.

 
Gottabesweet said:
Difference seems to be in my opinion that they have so much sponsorship money rolling in from FanDuel that it offsets that.  They are basically working for FanDuel.  Most of the daily articles are about FanDuel.  Last year it was DraftKings.
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That's a fair point.  Do they really care about how many subscribers they have if they make a lot more in sponsorships.  I do think that is short term thinking though.  I'm sure Fan Duel pays so much because they had a good amount of subscribers.

 
I really only pay for the DFS content.  I am in a couple dynasty leagues but always found the message boards the best source of information for those leagues and they are free.  But because of possible future legal concerns with DFS I not going to take advantage of the early bird discount.  I think I will be willing to pay the increased price although I am not thrilled about it.  Its really hard to say what the subscription is worth because I can't say what I would win without it.  The subscriber contest is something I do enjoy as well.

 
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Borden said:
I don't play DFS (tired it for a bit, wasn't for me) so this doesn't make much difference to me.

To be honest, I mostly just have my subscription because I want to support the free stuff that FBGs puts out. Mostly the message board and podcasts. 

These guys aren't a mega corporation and I feel the price to entertainment value is pretty high. Plus, I can get my subscription for "free" with some offer their offers on other things. They also have early bird discounts and, I think, a discount if you buy 3 years in advance. 

*** I haven't read through all the posts. If someone already said this (or disputed it) sorry for not following along. Bass asked, so I answered. 
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Same here.  I like the community.  My league has enough at stake to where $30 or so is worth it to me.  I don't miss it either way, and the FFA for the most part gets me my $30 worth.  The only thing that would drive me out of fantasy football is if the incessant onslaught of DFS continues.  I don't want the commercials and ads in my face.  I don't want the articles about how some guy is 2% owned.  I don't want Sirius/XM channels talking about it nonstop.  For that reason alone I support the split.  I wish everything was split.  Have a DFS channel on XM, have a DFS site within Football guys, have ads, but bury it to those who don't give a #### about it.  I understand everyone trying to monetize this.  But it's turning the other contingent, including me, away.

I just want season long content. 

 
Gottabesweet said:
I agree, I love your posts.  I've been picking your brain regarding Dez Bryant.  Honestly it's the first I've seen you around. (My first injury this year) Keep doing what your doing. This message board can be a great thing for the few of us that like to dive into X's and O's :thumbup:
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I usually disappear during the off-season and come back during the seasons. I've been around here since the forums were created. Glad to know people are getting use out of my info

 
Bronco Billy said:
The path to Hell for a business is thinking you are so good and so smart that you do not feel you need to listen to your customers. 

This seems to be a recurring theme here, in this thread and in other threads across this forum. instead of going into an immediately defensive posture, why not actually read the message the customer is sending to you and try to use it to improve your product?  This may be difficult to believe, but the vast majority send those messages because they care about the product you provide.

Just a nickel's worth of free advice...
Click to expand...
It's really good advice. It's advice that's getting emailed to the staff and shared on the FBGs slack channel all the time. It's the reason why Doug and Keith worked overtime to get MyFBG Classic restored after customers said loud and clear that they didn't like the new My.Footballguys. It's the reason why DFS is getting separated out and non-DFS subscribers are getting a price cut after non-stop complaints about seeing all that DFS coverage. Customers complained, the business responded in big and visible ways.

I don't want to get too much into private communication, but I just sorted my inbox for all emails from Joe. Last email: story about an interaction with a customer and the importance of taking five seconds to listen instead of reflexively assuming you know already. Two emails ago was forwarding a customer question he thought I could help with. Three emails ago was about preseason checks, (woot!), and four emails ago was a long discussion on the importance of building trust, including the following line: "there's some sort of universal law that says something along the lines of "companies and people that do the right things and take care of and value the customer will win out".  Without all the yelling and sizzle and look at me stuff. That's how we've tried to build Footballguys." Five and six emails ago were both passing along some customer praise, seven emails ago was discussing a specific article with me, and eight emails ago was an all-hands-on-deck call to the staff to get MyFBG Classic tested as quickly as possible so we could get it back into the hands of the customers, who had made it clear that they wanted it back.

This is not an aberration. When we hear from Joe, (about twice a week via email, more via Slack), this is almost always what it's about. Listen to customers. Here's an example of listening to customers. Here's why it's important to listen to customers. Here's how to listen to customers who are angry. Here's a thing we desperately need your help with because our customers said they wanted it. There's an entire channel in our staff Slack chat devoted to company culture, the importance of building trust and relationships, how the site was founded on providing something of value and the importance of making a friend instead of a sale.

I've worked a lot of places. All of them pay lip service to "customer is king". I've said before that this is by far the company I am most proud to be associated with, because I have never for the slightest second believed that "customer is king" was ever lip service here. Footballguys screws up, for sure. The rollout of MyFBGs this year was a disaster, and I think all parties involved will readily agree. But never confuse screwing up with not caring.

Going further, can you think of any other company on the planet that not only hosts a free message board for subscribers and non-subscribers alike to congregate, but also leaves open and undisturbed long threads of customers bashing the service they are providing, their sales tactics, questioning their motivations, etc? I mean, has anyone in this thread had any outside interference? Posts deleted, warnings to be a little bit less critical, anything? Is there another company out there right now that is that radically transparent, that actively enables and even assists in connecting upset customers with each other so they can pool complaints and even attempt to convince others about what's wrong?

I'm not saying this in a "be grateful we let you speak, peons" sort of way-- you guys know me better than that. I'm just saying that this is a pretty radical level of transparency. I literally cannot think of a single company that allows this level of transparency regarding customer complaints. Footballguys would be fully within their rights to delete all negative comments about their products from the message board. After all, they're a business, their goal is selling products, and these very public negative complaints probably hurt that bottom line, right?

Could you imagine going to Time Warner Cable's website and seeing a tab titled "what our customers are saying about us" that actually listed exactly what their customers were saying about them? Could you imagine Spirit Airlines hosting a message board for customers to talk about their flying experience?

Why would Footballguys allow this kind of radical, unprecedented transparency, even though it probably hurts the bottom line? I don't know. I'm not Joe or David, I've never been inside their heads. But to me it suggests that they place a pretty high value on honest, unfiltered feedback. This doesn't look like the sort of thing you'd see from a company that wasn't interested in listening to its customers. At least, in my opinion.

Which is totally in line with everything else I've ever seen and heard from them in my ten years as a subscriber and four years as a staffer.

 
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Gottabesweet said:
Difference seems to be in my opinion that they have so much sponsorship money rolling in from FanDuel that it offsets that.  They are basically working for FanDuel.  Most of the daily articles are about FanDuel.  Last year it was DraftKings.
Click to expand...
I'm obviously not privy to FBGs' financials, but I see enough of the broad strokes to posit (with a great degree of confidence) that ad revenue is a substantially smaller stream than subscriber revenue. If DFS ads all ended tomorrow, FBGs survives just fine. They probably have to let some of the DFS staff go, but the site itself is fine. If all subscriber revenue disappeared tomorrow, FBGs would be shuttered by the end of the month. No redraft, no dynasty, no IDP, no DFS, no contests, no message boards. Subscribers are the business.

Footballguys has a good working relationship with FanDuel. (As far as I know, they have a good working relationship with all of their sponsors.) But suggesting FBGs works for FanDuel... nah. That'd be like saying the NFL works for Coors. (Actually, it'd probably be more true in the NFL's case; advertising makes up a much larger share of their overall revenue.)

 
Adam Harstad said:
It's really good advice. It's advice that's getting emailed to the staff and shared on the FBGs slack channel all the time. It's the reason why Doug and Keith worked overtime to get MyFBG Classic restored after customers said loud and clear that they didn't like the new My.Footballguys. It's the reason why DFS is getting separated out and non-DFS subscribers are getting a price cut after non-stop complaints about seeing all that DFS coverage. Customers complained, the business responded in big and visible ways.

I don't want to get too much into private communication, but I just sorted my inbox for all emails from Joe. Last email: story about an interaction with a customer and the importance of taking five seconds to listen instead of reflexively assuming you know already. Two emails ago was forwarding a customer question he thought I could help with. Three emails ago was about preseason checks, (woot!), and four emails ago was a long discussion on the importance of building trust, including the following line: "there's some sort of universal law that says something along the lines of "companies and people that do the right things and take care of and value the customer will win out".  Without all the yelling and sizzle and look at me stuff. That's how we've tried to build Footballguys." Five and six emails ago were both passing along some customer praise, seven emails ago was discussing a specific article with me, and eight emails ago was an all-hands-on-deck call to the staff to get MyFBG Classic tested as quickly as possible so we could get it back into the hands of the customers, who had made it clear that they wanted it back.

This is not an aberration. When we hear from Joe, (about twice a week via email, more via Slack), this is almost always what it's about. Listen to customers. Here's an example of listening to customers. Here's why it's important to listen to customers. Here's how to listen to customers who are angry. Here's a thing we desperately need your help with because our customers said they wanted it. There's an entire channel in our staff Slack chat devoted to company culture, the importance of building trust and relationships, how the site was founded on providing something of value and the importance of making a friend instead of a sale.

I've worked a lot of places. All of them pay lip service to "customer is king". I've said before that this is by far the company I am most proud to be associated with, because I have never for the slightest second believed that "customer is king" was ever lip service here. Footballguys screws up, for sure. The rollout of MyFBGs this year was a disaster, and I think all parties involved will readily agree. But never confuse screwing up with not caring.

Going further, can you think of any other company on the planet that not only hosts a free message board for subscribers and non-subscribers alike to congregate, but also leaves open and undisturbed long threads of customers bashing the service they are providing, their sales tactics, questioning their motivations, etc? I mean, has anyone in this thread had any outside interference? Posts deleted, warnings to be a little bit less critical, anything? Is there another company out there right now that is that radically transparent, that actively enables and even assists in connecting upset customers with each other so they can pool complaints and even attempt to convince others about what's wrong?

I'm not saying this in a "be grateful we let you speak, peons" sort of way-- you guys know me better than that. I'm just saying that this is a pretty radical level of transparency. I literally cannot think of a single company that allows this level of transparency regarding customer complaints. Footballguys would be fully within their rights to delete all negative comments about their products from the message board. After all, they're a business, their goal is selling products, and these very public negative complaints probably hurt that bottom line, right?

Could you imagine going to Time Warner Cable's website and seeing a tab titled "what our customers are saying about us" that actually listed exactly what their customers were saying about them? Could you imagine Spirit Airlines hosting a message board for customers to talk about their flying experience?

Why would Footballguys allow this kind of radical, unprecedented transparency, even though it probably hurts the bottom line? I don't know. I'm not Joe or David, I've never been inside their heads. But to me it suggests that they place a pretty high value on honest, unfiltered feedback. This doesn't look like the sort of thing you'd see from a company that wasn't interested in listening to its customers. At least, in my opinion.

Which is totally in line with everything else I've ever seen and heard from them in my ten years as a subscriber and four years as a staffer.
Click to expand...
Excellent post Adam.  In my line of work, we place a premium on delivering superior customer service.  Being able to execute on that principle means the entire business team focuses on building and maintaining trusting relationships with our stakeholders and customers.  

I am grateful that you can share with us some of the ways in which the FBG's senior leadership team promotes trust in their enterprise. 

 
Dr. Brew said:
Exactly.

They have tried to keep up with the times but have really lost a hold of why they were so great to begin with. And I get it. Things change people change. Frustrating.
I have offered my services for free to comment on injuries, anatomy, rehab, etc. I believe it was back in 2014. They put me in contact with Dr. Bramel. I kind of got the brush off from Dr. Bramel "yeah that's great I'll let you know if I need anything" and never heard from him again... I'd think when you have professionals volunteering their time they'd take more than a minute to consider it. I am a doctor of physical therapy. Our knowledge of the body/anatomy/recovery is second only to orthopedic surgeons (documented). No offense to Dr. Bramel but a pediatrician is not who I go to for advice on anatomy, kinesiology, and rehab. I wouldn't ask a neurologist advice on a cardiac problem

It's things like this that make me think if they really are offering the best information they can for their subscribers. I was offering my services/expertise just because it's what I do, I love it and I'm great at it. 

If someone from FBG reads this and cares, my offer still stands... 
Or if anyone reads this and wants to PM me or post specifically at me about injuries or those sorts of things I'd be more than willing to respond. 




 
Click to expand...
I'm sorry you feel your expertise was brushed aside. I value everything that comes into my email inbox. I saved our conversation from 2014 because the information you shared on Andre Ellington was very helpful. At your suggestion, we briefly discussed exchanging emails on injury situations and rehab protocols and I expressed my interest. It looks like the conversation ended there.

Thanks for your contribution in the Dez Bryant thread. It's great to have knowledgeable folks willing to help out on the message board.

 
Jene Bramel said:
I'm sorry you feel your expertise was brushed aside. I value everything that comes into my email inbox. I saved our conversation from 2014 because the information you shared on Andre Ellington was very helpful. At your suggestion, we briefly discussed exchanging emails on injury situations and rehab protocols and I expressed my interest. It looks like the conversation ended there.

Thanks for your contribution in the Dez Bryant thread. It's great to have knowledgeable folks willing to help out on the message board.
Click to expand...
Nice to know this was more of a misunderstanding than a brush off.  :thumbup:

Suppose I should make a larger effort to reach out 

 
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Some of us live in Seattle, Washington state, or other places where DFS is banned. I can't wait to get rid of all of the DFS content so I don't have to wade through it in order to find information that I can actually use.

Then again, I'd probably be playing DFS if I knew how to play it and get away with it, so there's that!

 
Stopped subscribing 2-3yrs ago and still co-top of my dynasty league. 

Watch the games. Watch highlights. Watch college. Save your cash, and be a better "player".

Not gonna lie, or knock the product. It was always good. Just felt like paying that price ( + the exchange ) made it an easy decision. Especially when I realized what a farce DFS is

 
I really don't understand how $30 or $35 over the course of a year makes a difference in people's lives.  If it does you most certainly shouldn't be paying it, save  your money for things like food.   

 
Dr. Brew said:
They put me in contact with Dr. Bramel. I kind of got the brush off from Dr. Bramel "yeah that's great I'll let you know if I need anything" and never heard from him again... I'd think when you have professionals volunteering their time they'd take more than a minute to consider it. I am a doctor of physical therapy. Our knowledge of the body/anatomy/recovery is second only to orthopedic surgeons (documented). No offense to Dr. Bramel but a pediatrician is not who I go to for advice on anatomy, kinesiology, and rehab. I wouldn't ask a neurologist advice on a cardiac problem

 
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

I seem to recall seeing this somewhere before.. I believe the poster was shouted down for this ridiculous logic. :popcorn:

:e:

 
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dkp993 said:
I really don't understand how $30 or $35 over the course of a year makes a difference in people's lives.  If it does you most certainly shouldn't be paying it, save  your money for things like food.   
Click to expand...
??? So either you're a broke mess or you should be paying? Explain this to me.

$35 means eff all to me. And it doesn't to most on here, I imagine. doesn't mean I am willing to spend it for something I can get almost anywhere else, or on forums, for free.

Like I said, I used to enjoy the product. But slowly I realized I wasnt getting out of it, what I used to. News was late. Twitter provides me instant info I need, in most cases. 

ETA: I really dont wanna come across like IMm crapping on the product. THere's a ton of useful info and products in that subscription. But it isnt worth it for me, as I have other methods to get my info/news. For those that dont, the product remains a solid investment

 
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Yeah, I'm a bit jaded.  Similar reasons as many have expressed.  I didn't even bother with the myFBG this year, and it sounds as if I've missed out on nothing but headaches.  The WDIS contest was axed, and we were only notified the week before the season when I specifically inquired.  Otherwise I guarantee there would have been no announcement as to its discontinuation.  The dynasty rankings aren't updated, neither offseason nor inseason, and to be quite honest when they are its 50/50 as to whether they're even worth looking at.  Then don't get me started on the weekly content.  Once again, the BS game of "if we're not going to get around to __________ article this week, let's just delete it from the weekly content list on Friday or Saturday and pretend it never happened" keeps getting played.  (See half the dynasty articles this week.)

This shift in focus by FBG to DFS is great, unless you don't use this site for DFS in which case I can definitively state that FBG's usefulness and reliability from past years has gone  :missing:  and  :toilet: .  Last year I'll be paying for a subscription unless something substantial changes, and it's not really about the money.   :violin:

 
Today is a typical reason how their product has gone down hill.  My waivers run tonight.  I typically use the Waiver report, 10 sec primer and custom 200 going forward to make decisions on waivers and trade offers.  For the first 5 weeks those reports were always available early on Tuesday.  Here it is 4pm and they are still not available and I haven't heard any reason why.  So now I will do my waivers/trade offers without the info that I paid for.

Mistakes & delays can happen.  They just seem to happen with this service often and there isn't any explanation given.  It just shows up late.

 
dkp993 said:
I really don't understand how $30 or $35 over the course of a year makes a difference in people's lives.  If it does you most certainly shouldn't be paying it, save  your money for things like food.   
Click to expand...
Exactly.  I derive so much enjoyment from the subscriber contests it's almost worth it just for those.

 
pghrob said:
Exactly.  I derive so much enjoyment from the subscriber contests it's almost worth it just for those.
Click to expand...
It used to be contests, but they dropped the WDIS without warning.  Are there others beyond the Subscriber Contest that I'm unaware of?

 
SayWhat? said:
It used to be contests, but they dropped the WDIS without warning.  Are there others beyond the Subscriber Contest that I'm unaware of?
Click to expand...
There's generally a playoff contest too, if memory serves.  Can't recall whether we saw that one last season though...

 
Arodin said:
There's generally a playoff contest too, if memory serves.  Can't recall whether we saw that one last season though...
Click to expand...
Good call.  Well I guess we'll find out at the end of our subscriptions whether that one is included or pulled as well.   :thumbup:

 
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