Fred Taylor (1 Viewer)

[Righetti]

I remember when I first started playing Fantasy Football there would always be a discussion about Fragile Fred and how if he had not been injured so often, he would be one of the best running backs as he was just dripping with talent. I honestly never saw this undeniable talent but what I always took note of was how little he actually got into the endzone. I remember he was one of the first starting Running Backs who would consistently get pulled at the goal-line and sort of remember Stacey Mack being the first true touchdown vulture (except maybe the Fridge).

For his career he ranks 22nd in touches (2824 total touches) and 65th in total TD's (74 total TD's) that comes down to 38 touches per TD which I have to think is pretty high/low.

The funny thing is that some of these veterans find a way to score TD's even when their YPC is bad but Fred did the opposite. if you took out his rookie year when he had 308 touches with 17 TD's (18 touches per TD) and continued to going for a good clip for his first three years with 37 TD's on 805 touches (21 touches per TD) but from there on he just dropped off the map.

Has anybody done less with more?

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

Agree; it's especially surprising considering that he was 1. a very effective runner averaging 4.6 YPC for his career and 2. was a large RB by most standards (6'1, 230).

 

[kardplayer]

According to stats on Pro-football-reference.com...

Amongst top 30 in carries, Fred Taylor ranked 23rd in terms of Attempts per TD with 66 TD runs on 2,534 carries (38 carries per TD).

Below him were:

24th Curtis Martin = 90/3518/39

25th OJ Simpson = 61/2,404/39

26th Tiki Barber = 55/2,217/40 (Another reason why no one will touch him)

27th Eddie George = 68/2,865/42

28th Jamal Lewis = 58/2,542/44

29th Thurman Thomas = 65/2,877/44

30th Warrick Dunn = 49/2,669/54 (Thank you Mike Alstott)

 

[Shutout]

I think your head is too far into a pure number here.

Fred taylor is (in)famous for driving FF owners bonkers but in real life, the man almost single-handedly shifted the RB position to what it is now.

When Fred Taylor came along, he ushered in (on a heavy scale) the desire for teams to find that back that can run with power AND catch proficiently. there were always power backs. There were always receiving backs. There were even a few Roger Craigs and Ricky Watters backs.

But Fred Taylor had the "catch and twitch and burst combo" that almost every team in the league now looks for in a back; to be able to do all those things.

Overall, Fred taylor was MUCH better than you're giving credit for. Go back and find the playoff game against the Dolphins and you'll be hard pressed to name a handful of guys that can do what he did.

Go back and watch his games against the Steelers and you'll see one of the VERY FEW Rbs who can punish aggressive teams like the Steelers. He mad them pay for not staying in lanes better than any back I can remember.

 

[Righetti]

According to stats on Pro-football-reference.com...Amongst top 30 in carries, Fred Taylor ranked 23rd in terms of Attempts per TD with 66 TD runs on 2,534 carries (38 carries per TD).Below him were:24th Curtis Martin = 90/3518/3925th OJ Simpson = 61/2,404/3926th Tiki Barber = 55/2,217/40 (Another reason why no one will touch him)27th Eddie George = 68/2,865/4228th Jamal Lewis = 58/2,542/4429th Thurman Thomas = 65/2,877/4430th Warrick Dunn = 49/2,669/54 (Thank you Mike Alstott)

interesting as obviously this is a pretty good list with two HOF's and at least one future one on it so it isn't like Taylor was completely alone in this sense. For argument sake let's look at total TD's to the equation as some of these guys (OJ, Tiki, Thomas, Dunn) all got a lot of their touches through the air.Taylor 2824/74 (38 touches per TD) Martin 4002/100 (40 touches per TD)OJ 2607/75 (34 touches per TD)TIki 2803/77 (36 touches per TD)George 3133/78 (40 touches per TD)Lewis 2763/62 (44 touches per TD)Thomas 3349/88 (38 touches per TD)Dunn 3179/64 (49 touches per TD)the guys that move in front of Fred Taylor are OJ and Tiki both who were more prolific scorers. He goes to about even with Thurman Thomas and stays ahead of Eddie George, Jamal Lewis and Warrick Dunn which I think is fair when I remember their careers. The only one who I would say my gut said had substantially better careers in relation to Fred are Thomas and Martin..

 

[Righetti]

I think your head is too far into a pure number here.Fred taylor is (in)famous for driving FF owners bonkers but in real life, the man almost single-handedly shifted the RB position to what it is now.When Fred Taylor came along, he ushered in (on a heavy scale) the desire for teams to find that back that can run with power AND catch proficiently. there were always power backs. There were always receiving backs. There were even a few Roger Craigs and Ricky Watters backs.But Fred Taylor had the "catch and twitch and burst combo" that almost every team in the league now looks for in a back; to be able to do all those things.Overall, Fred taylor was MUCH better than you're giving credit for. Go back and find the playoff game against the Dolphins and you'll be hard pressed to name a handful of guys that can do what he did.Go back and watch his games against the Steelers and you'll see one of the VERY FEW Rbs who can punish aggressive teams like the Steelers. He mad them pay for not staying in lanes better than any back I can remember.

I started FF in 2001 so my recollection is probably clouded by the years I really started to pay attention to numbersthe irony is that although every team wants a 1998 Fred Taylor many of them now use their running back like Fred Taylor/Stacy Mack of 2002 with specialists for goal-line and short yardage situations.Anyway if you look at Fred Taylor 2002-2010 he had 1987 touches with 37 TD's which equates to 53 touches per TD.. these are the Fred Taylor numbers I most vividly remember

 

[Righetti]

Agree; it's especially surprising considering that he was 1. a very effective runner averaging 4.6 YPC for his career and 2. was a large RB by most standards (6'1, 230).

did he just not have a nose for the endzone after his third year? For a guy who did so much, I always wondered why they didn't use him in those situations in those Stacey Mack years

 

[Wadsworth]

Fred can't put himself in at the goal line. Tom loved the goal line vulture and it kept Jimmy Smith's career TD totals down as well. Later Del Rio followed the same model, especially once MJD came to town. It's not like Fred couldn't score short yardage, he rarely got the chance.

 

[PahtyTom]

What? Fred Taylor had a great career.

 

[Righetti]

Fred can't put himself in at the goal line. Tom loved the goal line vulture and it kept Jimmy Smith's career TD totals down as well. Later Del Rio followed the same model, especially once MJD came to town. It's not like Fred couldn't score short yardage, he rarely got the chance.

but what always gets me is that at the end of the day coaches want to win and if Taylor gave them the best option to score he would have been in there.. It wasn't like Taylor was a total headcase who totaly annoyed coaches to the point they held a grudge against him.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Great topic blaming Taylor for his coaches' decisions to pull him at the goal line.

I bet his average yards per TD run is fantastic.

 

[Wadsworth]

Fred can't put himself in at the goal line. Tom loved the goal line vulture and it kept Jimmy Smith's career TD totals down as well. Later Del Rio followed the same model, especially once MJD came to town. It's not like Fred couldn't score short yardage, he rarely got the chance.

but what always gets me is that at the end of the day coaches want to win and if Taylor gave them the best option to score he would have been in there.. It wasn't like Taylor was a total headcase who totaly annoyed coaches to the point they held a grudge against him.

I don't think there was a grudge, Tom just loved to have a back for that situation. Look at Brandon Jacobs, especially early in his career. His first two seasons he combined for a 134 rushes for 16 TDs.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

everyone always says Fred shoulda done this or done that and he was so fragile. dude didn't miss so many games from a simple groin pull..........he COMPLETELY TORE HIS GROIN FROM THE BONE!!!! any of us don't go to work for months/years from injury like that but he returns to have several 1000yard season over and over. i know i can barely walk with a slightly tweaked groin. simply put to those that watched him at Florida and early in his Jag career they describe Fred as a bigger/faster AP with possibly better open field moves. if AP is putting together 1200yard seasons in his 30's i'll be surprised

 

[GroveDiesel]

I think your head is too far into a pure number here.Fred taylor is (in)famous for driving FF owners bonkers but in real life, the man almost single-handedly shifted the RB position to what it is now.When Fred Taylor came along, he ushered in (on a heavy scale) the desire for teams to find that back that can run with power AND catch proficiently. there were always power backs. There were always receiving backs. There were even a few Roger Craigs and Ricky Watters backs.But Fred Taylor had the "catch and twitch and burst combo" that almost every team in the league now looks for in a back; to be able to do all those things.Overall, Fred taylor was MUCH better than you're giving credit for. Go back and find the playoff game against the Dolphins and you'll be hard pressed to name a handful of guys that can do what he did.Go back and watch his games against the Steelers and you'll see one of the VERY FEW Rbs who can punish aggressive teams like the Steelers. He mad them pay for not staying in lanes better than any back I can remember.

You would give Fred Taylor that distinction over Thurman Thomas?

 

[JetMaxx]

Been watching football since the mid 70's and Taylor was my second favorite back to watch after Barry Sanders. Congrats to him on a 13 yr career averaging 4.6 a carry. Fantasic numbers to think about on both accounts.

 

[Nero]

everyone always says Fred shoulda done this or done that and he was so fragile. dude didn't miss so many games from a simple groin pull..........he COMPLETELY TORE HIS GROIN FROM THE BONE!!!! any of us don't go to work for months/years from injury like that but he returns to have several 1000yard season over and over. i know i can barely walk with a slightly tweaked groin. simply put to those that watched him at Florida and early in his Jag career they describe Fred as a bigger/faster AP with possibly better open field moves. if AP is putting together 1200yard seasons in his 30's i'll be surprised

Fred was bigger and shiftier, but definitely not faster or quicker than Peterson. I think the injuries are the main reason Fred was pulled at the goal line at short yardage. It was an attempt to save his body. IMO, Fred is head and shoulders above every one else of his time besides Faulk and LT as far as what he brought to the table. Its too bad that injuries stained what should of been a Hall of Fame career.

 

[Nero]

Been watching football since the mid 70's and Taylor was my second favorite back to watch after Barry Sanders. Congrats to him on a 13 yr career averaging 4.6 a carry. Fantasic numbers to think about on both accounts.

same here! I often referred to him as Big Barry Sanders.

 

[cubbie5150]

I'll always be thankful to Fred. Dude gave me great production his rookie year & helped me to my first fantasy championship

 

[Bri]

I think it was Matt Pitzer that once referred to Fred as being like an ex-girlfriend that you just shouldn't answer the phone call from, but ya gotta. Oh he was FF trouble when he was younger.

He was an outstanding runner for a spell there. IIRC He has the record for most 100 yard games in a row. Maybe CJ broke it. During that string, he was one of the best runners ever. 11? games doesn't make a HOF candidate. I'm not exaggerating that into more than it is. He was awesome then though.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda... He played the Steelers and Ravens in the heydays of those D's for the last 20 years and put up a 4.???

Anything beyond a 3.6 would have been good, playing those two teams 4 games/yr. No doubt he was a STUD, and in a different division, or fewer injuries, he would have been in the top 20 all-time. Anti-perfect-storm.

 

[glumpy]

Fred was awesome.

but...if it wasn't for bad luck he wouldn't have no luck at all.

 

[Wadsworth]

everyone always says Fred shoulda done this or done that and he was so fragile. dude didn't miss so many games from a simple groin pull..........he COMPLETELY TORE HIS GROIN FROM THE BONE!!!! any of us don't go to work for months/years from injury like that but he returns to have several 1000yard season over and over. i know i can barely walk with a slightly tweaked groin. simply put to those that watched him at Florida and early in his Jag career they describe Fred as a bigger/faster AP with possibly better open field moves. if AP is putting together 1200yard seasons in his 30's i'll be surprised

Fred was bigger and shiftier, but definitely not faster or quicker than Peterson. I think the injuries are the main reason Fred was pulled at the goal line at short yardage. It was an attempt to save his body. IMO, Fred is head and shoulders above every one else of his time besides Faulk and LT as far as what he brought to the table. Its too bad that injuries stained what should of been a Hall of Fame career.

Fred ran in the 4.3s.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I'll always be thankful to Fred. Dude gave me great production his rookie year & helped me to my first fantasy championship

It was 1998. I took Fred Taylor as a "sleeper." Back then, a guy like Taylor could be drafted super late or went totally undrafted. This was before fantasy football was mainstream on the internet. I still remember the heart of that amazing fantasy team I had:Randall Cunningham 3,704 passing yards, 35 total TDsJamal Anderson 2,165 total yards, 16 TDsFred Taylor 1,644 total yards, 17 TDsRandy Moss 1,472 total yards, 17 TDsAntonio Freeman 1,424 yards and 14 TDsMy team that year was ridiculous. Man, those were the days where if you put in the work, you could really dominate fantasy football. Granted, some of those guys were luck, but not many guys even took a chance on guys like Taylor.

 

[Wadsworth]

I'll always be thankful to Fred. Dude gave me great production his rookie year & helped me to my first fantasy championship

It was 1998. I took Fred Taylor as a "sleeper." Back then, a guy like Taylor could be drafted super late or went totally undrafted. This was before fantasy football was mainstream on the internet. I still remember the heart of that amazing fantasy team I had:Randall Cunningham 3,704 passing yards, 35 total TDs

Jamal Anderson 2,165 total yards, 16 TDs

Fred Taylor 1,644 total yards, 17 TDs

Randy Moss 1,472 total yards, 17 TDs

Antonio Freeman 1,424 yards and 14 TDs

My team that year was ridiculous. Man, those were the days where if you put in the work, you could really dominate fantasy football. Granted, some of those guys were luck, but not many guys even took a chance on guys like Taylor.

And yet in what was a omen of things to come as far Fred's bad luck with post season honors, Fred was not the OROY in spite of those numbers. I think I see the guy that beat him out right beneath him on your roster. Nice.

 

[Shutout]

I think your head is too far into a pure number here.Fred taylor is (in)famous for driving FF owners bonkers but in real life, the man almost single-handedly shifted the RB position to what it is now.When Fred Taylor came along, he ushered in (on a heavy scale) the desire for teams to find that back that can run with power AND catch proficiently. there were always power backs. There were always receiving backs. There were even a few Roger Craigs and Ricky Watters backs.But Fred Taylor had the "catch and twitch and burst combo" that almost every team in the league now looks for in a back; to be able to do all those things.Overall, Fred taylor was MUCH better than you're giving credit for. Go back and find the playoff game against the Dolphins and you'll be hard pressed to name a handful of guys that can do what he did.Go back and watch his games against the Steelers and you'll see one of the VERY FEW Rbs who can punish aggressive teams like the Steelers. He mad them pay for not staying in lanes better than any back I can remember.

You would give Fred Taylor that distinction over Thurman Thomas?

Yes, because of a few things.Thurman Thomas was awesome, first and foremost. But the distinction of what I am talking about is -Thurman was in an offense almost a decade earlier that was seen, at the time, as being specialized to a point to where it was only successful because of those players (Kelly/reed/thomas, etc). I don't want to use the word gimmick but it was widely thought of at the time as not a system just anyone could run. It was more of like what people might think of the Dolphins wildcat offense a few years ago: effective and productive but not just anyone is going to run it. So Thurman, in that offense, was closer to Faulk in Indy and St. louis.-Thurman was a smaller back. And that is where the difference really separates. Thomas could do so many things and run and catch. But then Taylor comes along and he is taller and weighs about 25-30 pounds more BUT he can do all these things plus run inside better while STILL having an UNBELIVEABLE twitch and burst after the catch. For a guy that size, you just have to really watch it to remember how good that was.So, while people saw greatness in Thomas, it was, in my opinion anywats, Taylor that really made NFL teams look and think that if they could find guys with any type of that combo, that they could run it in any offense. And that's what you have today. Most teams use multiple backs to get it done, but there are some guys like LT, Peterson, foster, MJD, etc, that do them both.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I think your head is too far into a pure number here.

Fred taylor is (in)famous for driving FF owners bonkers but in real life, the man almost single-handedly shifted the RB position to what it is now.

When Fred Taylor came along, he ushered in (on a heavy scale) the desire for teams to find that back that can run with power AND catch proficiently. there were always power backs. There were always receiving backs. There were even a few Roger Craigs and Ricky Watters backs.

But Fred Taylor had the "catch and twitch and burst combo" that almost every team in the league now looks for in a back; to be able to do all those things.

Overall, Fred taylor was MUCH better than you're giving credit for. Go back and find the playoff game against the Dolphins and you'll be hard pressed to name a handful of guys that can do what he did.

Go back and watch his games against the Steelers and you'll see one of the VERY FEW Rbs who can punish aggressive teams like the Steelers. He mad them pay for not staying in lanes better than any back I can remember.

You would give Fred Taylor that distinction over Thurman Thomas?

Yes, because of a few things.Thurman Thomas was awesome, first and foremost. But the distinction of what I am talking about is

-Thurman was in an offense almost a decade earlier that was seen, at the time, as being specialized to a point to where it was only successful because of those players (Kelly/reed/thomas, etc). I don't want to use the word gimmick but it was widely thought of at the time as not a system just anyone could run. It was more of like what people might think of the Dolphins wildcat offense a few years ago: effective and productive but not just anyone is going to run it. So Thurman, in that offense, was closer to Faulk in Indy and St. louis.

-Thurman was a smaller back. And that is where the difference really separates. Thomas could do so many things and run and catch. But then Taylor comes along and he is taller and weighs about 25-30 pounds more BUT he can do all these things plus run inside better while STILL having an UNBELIVEABLE twitch and burst after the catch. For a guy that size, you just have to really watch it to remember how good that was.

So, while people saw greatness in Thomas, it was, in my opinion anywats, Taylor that really made NFL teams look and think that if they could find guys with any type of that combo, that they could run it in any offense. And that's what you have today. Most teams use multiple backs to get it done, but there are some guys like LT, Peterson, foster, MJD, etc, that do them both.

I don't understand why playing in a no-huddle offense means that Thurman Thomas couldn't play in any other type of offense. He ran the ball a TON inside. It's weird you'd think otherwise. It's one of the things he did best actually. Read this article that even mentions that fact and essentially says he was the same player as Emmitt Smith (which is basically true although Thurman was a better receiver IMO and Emmitt was more durable).This isn't meant in any way to detract from what Fred Taylor was. But guys like Roger Craig and Thurman Thomas were very similar to Fred Taylor long before Taylor. Yes, Taylor was 20 pounds heavier than Thomas, but I don't think anyone would ever refer to Taylor as a bruiser.