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Fumble and the Giants recover? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter t8knovr
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B-Deep
Footballguy
no,do you happen to have the video?
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
I forgot the Pat that fell on it but he didn't secure it up. So Bradshaw dove in and got his arm around the ball like you're supposed to.
Giants caught a huge break there.
Giants caught a huge break there.
timintey
Footballguy
He clearly landed on it in the ref's view and the whistle should have blown. Oh well I was going for the G-Men anyway.
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
Nope, one of the spots Belichick fell asleep at the wheel.To busy thinking about what He was going to say after NE won the Super Bowl.He was out coach, again. Colts last year.Brady lost to the Colts and now Giants, Great QB. Not the best.Otto or Joe.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
it wasn't recovered. He dove on the ball but clearly ended up overshooting the ball and Bradshaw jumped on it on the ground still...the Patriots player never had the ball
nyftbl_giants
Footballguy
WOW really. I gotta get a good look at this. I just killed someone in another post thinking he was being sarcastic. From what I saw bradshaw stole that from his posession in a play that I usually see called right away before the steal can take place. Im going to check it out again later.
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The way it looked to me on the replay was that the Pats player rolled over/overshot the ball, the ball was loose under him and Bradshaw stuck his meat hooks in there and yanked it out before the Pats player could control it.
the spanker
Footballguy
You guys kill me with posts like these. All that matters in the end is who ended up with the ball 
And if the Pats were so good anyway, they still should have won (12 point favorite)
And if the Pats were so good anyway, they still should have won (12 point favorite)
It looked to me like Bradshaw rolled the guy over and took it. I was surprised that the Giants got the ball back. If anything can be learned about this game can we say that there is no such thing as an NFL secret agenda to give a team calls in order to give them a victory? There was a lot of talk about how the refs would give the favorable calls to the Patriots but between this, the push of on Toomers side line catch, and a possible early in the grass call on Eli’s epic toss, the refs had their chances to and didn't side with the Pats.
Not to say I think it was a poorly called game at all. On the contrary I think it was a good game by the officials.
Not to say I think it was a poorly called game at all. On the contrary I think it was a good game by the officials.
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Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
No problem with this call. Another call, though, was horrible. NE, 1st drive, on about the NYG 40. 2nd and about 7. Player turns the corner, gets hit, and hits the ground AT LEAST 1 yard before the marker. Official comes running up and marks the ball just short (couple of inches) of the marker. Next thing you know, they've givent them a first down.
Too early to burn a challenge, but that was horrible.
Too early to burn a challenge, but that was horrible.
Koya
Footballguy
As I noted in the other thread, while NE probably did have the ball, this would have been a very tough call to overturn on replay where you would have to be 100% sure that NE had possession without the ball moving whatsoever, completrely secured.
It probably was a good break for the Giants - at a crucial early juncture. But the way the Giants defense played, I wouldnt say that would have decided anything regardless who recovered.
It probably was a good break for the Giants - at a crucial early juncture. But the way the Giants defense played, I wouldnt say that would have decided anything regardless who recovered.
Road Warriors
Footballguy
That was Faulk on a dumpoff. I remember saying that was a VERY generous spot.
Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
I remember telling my friends that they gave them 2 feet on the spot. They replayed it in slow mo -- and it was actually an actual yard.
Yenrub
Footballguy
I noticed that too. It was one of the last shots of the play that FOX showed. The camera angle was from the Patriots side of the ball, while the Patriot defender was falling on the ball Bradshaw was able to get his forearm underneath him. After that it just seemed like Bradshaw and a lineman were able to roll the guy over.
super sleeper
Footballguy
If the whistle had blown, the outcome would have been affected by a horribly blown call. The last replay clearly showed that the Patriot fell on the ball and Bradshaw's arm, and Bradshaw then pulled the ball out from underneath him. Nothing even close to securing the ball. A "Giant" break for us, but the right call.As others mentioned, the spot on Faulk's play in the opening drive was terrible. The ball was placed a couple of feet ahead of where Faulk was down, a generous spot that was still a yard short of the first down, then they call it a first down and Fox never even shows a replay.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
I said the same thing when I watched it live, then I saw a replay and the Patriot guy went over the top of the ball and you could tell he didn't really have it, rather he went over it and Bradshaw crawled under him...
Phlash
Footballguy
It would have put them in easy field goal range - they also lost by 3 points.
timintey
Footballguy
Happened at the 32 so you can't say easy FG range since BB passed up a FG from there later on
GregR_2
Footballguy
When they re-air the game on NFL Network, watch for the last replay that they show on the play. Up until that point I thought it should have been Pats ball, but that was the one where you could see Bradshaw's arm hooking around the ball underneath while the Pats player overshot it. It was great camerawork.
((Morpheus))
Footballguy
Black
Footballguy
If he's a Pats fan, of course he has the video.The real question is, did they DESTROY the video yet?
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I must agree with the above poster. I looked like to me on the replay that the Patriot player didn't have control of the ball when Bradshaw jumped in there and grabbed on to the football.
Koya
Footballguy
Just heard on radio, so not a guaranteed source, but apparantly someone in Boston spoke to the Pats player and the Pats player responded something to the effect that he was on top of the ball, but never really got his arms around it with possession, how it was a missed opportunity and you have to get those and he hoped to make up for it.
That that paraphrasing for what it's worth, but seems to fit what we can see.
That that paraphrasing for what it's worth, but seems to fit what we can see.
dparker713
Footballguy
On the whole, this play was consistent with how the refs called the entire game. They allowed alot of pushing and shoving. There were plenty of plays where PI or holding could have been called on either theam, but there wasnt a flag. The only call that really stood out in my mind was when Brady threw a pass away while standing inside the pocket in the endzone, really should have been intentional grounding and a safety. I guess thats more because I think the PIs and holds offset, but there wasnt an analogous play for the Giants.
crowe1130
Footballguy
That's the way it looked to me. Thanks for the semi-confirmation.
timintey
Footballguy
As per Mike Reiss, Boston Globe:
I talked with linebacker Pierre Woods after the game and he indicated that he never had possession. "I was on top of the ball and they just jumped on me. I couldn't get my arms under it and they got the ball back," he said. "It was a missed opportunity, something we talk about, and you can't make those mistakes. I had one. That was mine and I'll try to make up for it." So based on what Woods said, I don't think a challenge would have been effective, because he never had possessed the ball.
I talked with linebacker Pierre Woods after the game and he indicated that he never had possession. "I was on top of the ball and they just jumped on me. I couldn't get my arms under it and they got the ball back," he said. "It was a missed opportunity, something we talk about, and you can't make those mistakes. I had one. That was mine and I'll try to make up for it." So based on what Woods said, I don't think a challenge would have been effective, because he never had possessed the ball.
CalBear
Footballguy
I think Brady's arm or the ball got hit on that play.
PsychoMan
Footballguy
I thought the same thing. What exactly happened there? It didn't seem like anyone was even discussing it. Was there a receiver nearby? I didn't see one ...-see CalBear's post above mine now ... I didn't see his arm getting hit either but I don't think they showed a replay
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
The Patriots player never had possession of it.
And when that play was over, that was the first time I thought, hmmm, maybe this isn't the Patriots day, as those kind of breaks and bounces always seem to go their way. I thought the same thing later on the Eli fumble/Bradshaw bat forward play.
And when that play was over, that was the first time I thought, hmmm, maybe this isn't the Patriots day, as those kind of breaks and bounces always seem to go their way. I thought the same thing later on the Eli fumble/Bradshaw bat forward play.
GregR_2
Footballguy
Just fired up the Tivo and took a look. On the live game call Joe Buck said it was tipped and it definitely was fluttering unlike a normal pass. They showed two replays, neither of them were great as Brady's hand was completely off the top of the screen in the 2nd and the angle wasn't ideal in the first.Looks like it was a good non-call though. The pressure definitely affected the throw. Mitchell probably got the ball with his hand as well as Brady's arm hitting his helmet around the time of release.PsychoMan said:
dparker713
Footballguy
I dont recall a Pats player on the screen where the ball wound up, so I fail to see how hitting his arm makes it a good non-call. It stands to reason that defensive players will often effect the flight of the ball on a grounding call, but regardless of whats happening around Brady, he needs to get the ball somewhere near a Pats player or where a Pats player was possibly supposed to be.
Road Warriors
Footballguy
I don't recall ever seeing an intentional grounding when the ball is tipped or the QBs arm is hit. The defense has altered the "intended" location of the ball, which would remove the "intentional" throwing the ball away. It sure looked like a good non-call to me.
GregR_2
Footballguy
He only had to have been trying to get the ball to where a receiver was. If contact made it end up somewhere else, that isn't intentional grounding. Here is the exact wording of the applicable section from the rulebook:
I'd say the pass was significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player. Stallworth was on that side of the field and close enough to where Brady seemed to be aiming towards, that I'd have to say he gets the benefit of the doubt he initiated his passing motion towards an eligible receiver. I think Brady gets away with a lot of balls that should be called intentional grounding. But by the rules, I don't think this was one of them, so I'd stick with it being a good non-call.
westbrook36
Footballguy
Some of yous need your eyes checked. It Jarvis Green of the Patriots fell on the ball, and had possession. Then 5 guys jumped on his back, and Bradshaw got underneath the pile, and stripped Green. Green should have been ruled down, and it should have been Patriots ball. The refs are just morons to left that happen.
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
NE should have challenged.The first 10 times I watched that play, I thought NE had recovered.Watch it again if you can? Green or whoever it was did not 'wrap arms' around ball.It was a great play by Bradshaw.Again NE got out coached by a coach every Giant fan wanted fired.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
.....The Patriots player came out and said that he never had possession of the ball. Somehow you can see underneath the pile from your tv screen and confirm that he had complete possession and that the ball could not have been moving around underneath the pile? You're an Eagles fan so I'm assuming it kills you that the Giants won........
GregR_2
Footballguy
"Recovery of loose ball in the field of play" is not reviewable by replay.
Chaka
Footballguy
I just watched the game again last night, Bradshaw got a hand under Woods and around the ball before it could be secured by the Woods. I am actually surprised the refs got that call right.
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Koya
Footballguy
The NE player HIMSELF said that he never had possession. He lamented that it was a missed opportunity and he should have just grabbed the ball and he hopes to redeem himself next year, or something to that effect. (no link, sorry)
Chaka
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
Hey, this is FBGs. Not only do we know more than the refs, we know more than the player whom we are actually talking about, too.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Similar to the Brandon Jacobs fumble in the NFCC game where Kampman all but secured it and then lost it to the Giants. Live by the sword, live by the sword for the Giants.
az_prof
Footballguy
Do you people watch football? I have never seen a play like that blown dead until the ref has a chance to pull the pile apart and see clearly who has possession. Fighting for the ball in a pile is as old as football and it always goes to the guy who last has it when the pile is cleared. There is no controversy here. None.
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
Yep, judgment calls are not reviewable.GregR said:
Like a Field goal. Cleveland ring a bell. 
But Bradshaw did get it back, so no biggie.
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az_prof
Footballguy
How do you know he had possession? You don't know until the pile is cleared and you can see who has possession--that was Bradshaw. If Bradshaw ended up with the ball then it is pretty clear that Green did not have possession.
Chaka
Footballguy
Jarvis Green definitely did not have posession. No question about it.
