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Through players that played at least 7 seasons, Holt ranks #1 in receiving yards, # 2 in receptions, and #15 in receiving TD. He already ranks in the Top 40 in receptions and Top 30 in receiving yards and is just 29.Barring something bizarre happening, he will be all but a shoo-in if he plays even 5 more years.
HUFFING ALERT. I dont know what I was reading, because D. Brooks is absolutely in and should be a first ballot guy. My bad.that guy's a lock, sorry. Only Buc I'll say that about, although Sapp is close.Nothing left for Brooks to accomplish. That guy is in.
Maybe if he screamed and did some idiotic dance like Ray Lewis, he'd get more respect from the average fan.
I think I ready Derrick Thomas. Oops.
no problems, huffer.He and Bavaro are the best TEs I've ever seen until Gonzalez and Gates. The latter two are almost unreal with the stats they're putting up and their athleticism. IIRC when Coates was young, he was thought of as a "freak" and no one expected that athleticism from such a big guy. I think he impacted the positions development.I know Bavaro statistically isn't even in the same ball park as some great TEs but he was everything(as a fan or if I were a coach as we all put ourselves in those ficititious shoes) I'd want as a player and/or TE to be. He was a man among boys, a throwback playing in today's game(then). I have never seen a RB, WR, TE, QB match his ability to not go down when being hit. How the F he carried 5-6 defenders on his back while running was just mind boggling. I'm not sure if any NFL player has ever personified the "he plays with alot of heart" phrase any more than him. Well, I just loved watching that guy play. I also think he impacted the positions development.
Coates was an excellent player for a few years but I believe Christiansen and Bavaro would have to get in first for him to have any chance.
(nitpick)I don't believe Seau is considerred Asian American. Is he hawaiian? Someone from NFLE last year was to play in the NFL and they said that phrase about him. Of course that could have been misstated.Seau played on a cruddy team while those two went to the Supe and were on some awesome Ds.
IMO they are all "if he does such and such from here forward" guys, and I specifically said I was trying to avoid them. I don't expect any of those 4 named here to make it.
I don't think James is in today. He is #19 in rushes, #20 in rushing yards, #30 in rushing TDs, and #36 in YFS. Barber's numbers are all worse, except he is #20 in YFS.I think Barber has virtually no shot, and I posted on that plenty in the Barber HOF thread. Hence, he's not on the list.I think James has a good chance, but his chance will be affected by (a) how he finishes his career and (b) how he stacks up against other peers still with plenty of time to play, like Tomlinson and Alexander. Hence, it's too early to tell IMO. Heck, he might not be eligible for another 10+ years. I was trying to avoid players like that, since it is much more speculative than for canidates who have retired or are on the verge of doing so.
I guess this is a valid point, so I'll add him. Priest lasted longer and scored TDs at a higher rate. But Davis has 2 Super Bowl rings, 1 MVP, and 1 Super Bowl MVP, as well as dominant postseason statistics... Priest has none of those things.IMO Davis will not and should not make it, but I think he is a better candidate than Priest. Nevertheless, Priest will likely get consideration and is almost done, so I'll add him to the list.
See my explanation for James above. Both have excellent prospects, but it is too early to put these guys on my list.
I agreed above and added Moss. I put Moss ahead of Owens because he has similar regular season numbers in 2 fewer seasons, plus better postseason numbers. I can't bring myself to name Owens as a lock at this point, but he is on the list.
See James, Alexander, Tomlinson above. Too early.
His chance is slim at best, and would require that he add more to his resume, thus failing my criteria.---The reason I started the list was to try to compile a list of the locks and likely candidates that we know now. This could in turn help to frame some of the discussions of players who are not as worthy, like some named above, and those who have more years left. Rather than talking only about how many of position X are in the HOF, we could potentially talk about how many there *will be* in the HOF and also get a look at the type of competition such players will face from all positions.
Coates was eligible for the first time this year. He did not make it through the first cutdown to 25, and I don't even recall him being discussed. I don't see him with much of a chance, in part because of the lack of respect given to the TE position. And by the time he retired, it was clear that his career overlapped with a better TE, Gonzalez (EDIT: and Sharpe). And by the time Gonzalez retires, it will likely be clear that there is another better one coming, Gates. None of that helps Coates IMO.
Why? I'm not questioning it, and I know Matthews has a good reputation, but how do we truly know that an OL is Hall worthy? That is, as one who hasn't followed his career closely, what can I look at as evidence?I tend to agree that he will make it, I just would like to find a good method for comparing OL.
Seau was chosen as One of 100 most influential Asian Americans (1990s) by A Magazine. I found this at the cached NFLPLAYERS.COM page on Seau.I can't verify it, but when I was looking them up last night, I noticed it and thought it could be a small factor given that race was apparently a factor for Moon. (I know it's not the same, and I don't think either Moon or Seau needed it to get in.)
Seau is SamoanGrew up in SoCal.
Perhaps you are right, though IIRC you are a Giants fan, right?
Bruce Smith was All NFL 8 times, compared to Strahan's 4. Smith made 11 Pro Bowls, compared to Strahan's 7 so far. Smith has 50% more sacks than Strahan at this point. It is no slight to Strahan to question your statement above comparing him to Smith.
OK, like I said, I knew he belonged on the list, I just wasn't sure how to rate his chances. But I didn't look up his PBs. Of course, many of the OLs I listed have 9+ PBs and are still playing. Do we think all of them will make the HOF? I was hoping there is a method to discriminate amongst them.
I've brought this up before ,but I think Strahan is a media darling and is getting in based on that. he's good no doubt. Not HOF worthy (yet) IMO.Perhaps you are right, though IIRC you are a Giants fan, right?
What is there currently . . . one full-time kicker in the HOF (plus Blanda)?Can we narrow it down to one kicker? Maybe Ray Guy as a punter and Vinatieri for a placekicker . . .
Steve Tasker
Hines Ward
Seasons among the league's top 10Receptions: 2001-8, 2002-2, 2003-5tReceiving yards: 2002-4, 2003-9Receiving TDs: 2002-2, 2003-4t, 2005-3tRush/Receive TDs: 2002-10That would be a reach. He was a top 3 WR in 2002. Hard to say he was a top 5 WR in 2003 given that he finished 9th in receiving yards (he ranked 6th in fantasy terms). In 2004, he wasn't on the map (28th in fantasy terms), and in 2005 was 3rd in TDs but wasn't top 10 in either catches or receiving yards (10th in fantasy terms).So something like 2nd, 6th, 28th, 10th in the past 4 years does not strike me as top 5 over the 4 year period. Regardless, it also does not strike me as HOF worthy.
Winner winner chicken dinner.Even the one good year (good by HOF standards), was he REALLY the 2nd best WR that year?
Number of times ranked in the Top 5 in receptions, receiving yards, or receiving TDs (Current players only):Harrison 14
I've had the Vinatieri conversation before. In general, the argument for him boils down to him having made a few clutch kicks in the postseason. Meanwhile, guys like Gary Anderson and Morten Andersen have more than twice as many points.I did a brief search, and from what I could find, I'd vote for Morten Andersen, if any place kicker:
Who really knows what defines a HOF kicker . . . seeing that there's really only one inducted. If you do start electing them, though, I suppose there would be a lot of similar choices, as many could play forever, some could claim clutch kicks, many could point to a higher percentage of kicks made, etc.
it's not a few clutch kicks it's like 25-30 in a row over like 2-3 years. I had pasted it into a thread discussing it with CalBear if IIRC. He seemed to be "eh' to it while I thought it was phenomenal that he wouldn't miss in the 4th quarter for so long. I believe his streak ended this year BTW
If you are saying he made 25-30 clutch kicks in a row over 2-3 years, I'd like to see your definition of clutch kick. I already posted above that Andersen has 31 game winning kicks and 40 50+ yard FGs. I think it is fair to say those are clutch plays for kickers. How does Vinatieri compare in those categories?And then on top of that, Andersen has the career points, the most Pro Bowls, etc. I just don't see how anyone can justify Vinatieri over him, at least not at this time. If Vinatieri keeps kicking for 10+ more years and significantly closes the gap on those other accomplishments, then I could see his clutch playoff kicks becoming a discriminator.
There is some great discussion in that thread for those who are interested in this topic.
Brutal. My man Aeneas is going to get the squeeze. That's a dang shame.
I think they should be considered because they have a reasonably important effect on the game. I think Tasker really stands out from the crowd at this position, with only Bill Bates from Dallas being close. But Tasker has the 4 SB appearances, however many Pro Bowls, 1 of those Pro Bowls he was MVP and he played a decent WR when the Bills needed him there. Pretty important guy to those teams. But let's be honest, if Thomas isn't a first ballot HOFer than it's hard to imagine those 39 baffoons recognizing Tasker's impact. :(
Agreed. We won't likely ever have the best holder, long snapper, kickoff specialist, kickoff returner, or punt returner in the HOF, unless by chance the player was HOF caliber at another position. Where is the line? It is questionable if or when another kicker or any punter will be inducted. Given that, I don't see Tasker or any other special teams coverage player making it. It appears to me that the line among players has been drawn after offense & defense, with Jan Stenerud as the lone exception.
OK. I feel confident they were not all in clutch situations or we would no doubt be frequently inundated with this stat by the Pats fans around here.
Heck, at the very least it would have been brought up in the Vinatieri thread I referenced earlier. There were only 6 specific great plays cited by Vinatieri in that thread.
THANK YOU! Not quite what? Not quit the best LB in the last 15 years? Yes he was. I am not a Bucs fan at all, but this guy has been the the best there was for a long time!
Maybe if he screamed and did some idiotic dance like Ray Lewis, he'd get more respect from the average fan.
Yes, I was tempted to list Aeneas as a LOCK, but the fact that he comes eligible within a four year window that includes Darrell Green, Rod Woodson, & Deion gave me pause. Also, he didn't really have the exposure of the others... not sure how much that could affect voters.Still, I think he should get in. From the Lynch thread:
I admit my Giants bias. I also believe that Smith was the better player - but Strahan has been an absolutely dominant force and if anything, has been overlooked in his skill (people seem to pay attention because he is an attention whore). I think this actually works against him in some football circles.Regardless, he has been the best end in the game since Smith's prime.Perhaps you are right, though IIRC you are a Giants fan, right?
Perhaps. It is essentially my opinion of which players will definitely make it. How overused do you think it is? In other words, how many of the guys I identified as Locks do you think will not make it?I know some people disagree with Tim Brown & Bettis, and I went ahead and removed all the offensive linemen locks, given how unlikely it is that they all get in and my inability to distinguish between them effectively. I also removed the lock designator from Rodney Harrison.
I don't think best in the last 15 years. Greg Lloyd was very impressive for a few years there and in his old age(like everyone) he's not as good. 15 is too long a time period, he's awesome I suppose my "issue" is with the time period.THANK YOU! Not quite what? Not quit the best LB in the last 15 years? Yes he was. I am not a Bucs fan at all, but this guy has been the the best there was for a long time!
Maybe if he screamed and did some idiotic dance like Ray Lewis, he'd get more respect from the average fan.
