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Gaining my independence (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter NCCommish
- Start date
cstu
Footballguy
Trump won. Does that not demonstrate to you that the people control the outcome?
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
You actually believe that anyone in the Republican Party establishment wanted or wants Trump on the ticket? He's very clearly the product of a grassroots revolt. He's obviously uncontrollable, a complete wild card policy-wise, and likely doing huge longterm damage to the party itself.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yeah, Trump won the nomination over the vocal objections of the GOP's big financial supporters. This is the opposite of money driving the process.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Unpack -- Jeb had waaaay more money, for example. Trump is a product of angry backlash, not big $ interests.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
As a vote against Hillary and a vote for conservative judges. That's a huge chunk of the non-psycho vote that he's getting. People just hate Hillary and the idea of her stacking the court with liberal judges.
I don't agree with it, but I understand it.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Not really sure exactly what you are trying to say TBH. I definitely disagree if you are saying that anyone other than the plurality of Republican primary voters that chose him is responsible for or happy with Trump. Regular people.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
I'm saying that the two parties were created by the rich for the rich. No one is getting the nomination of either party without a ton of money, and no third party candidate is ever taken seriously unless they have... a ton of money.
The end result is we are a democratic form of a plutocracy. Whether it happened because is was intentional, or it happened due to Hillary Clinton type carelessness doesn't matter. It is what it is.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Chemical X
Footballguy
tl;dr
NCCommish
Footballguy
I believe he is the harvest of the seeds that the GOP sowed when it went off the cliff to ride the Tea Party tiger.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I'd agree that the two parties in general function right now primarily to advocate for special interests who provide the massive amounts of money that the candidates need to get (re)elected. I strongly disagree that Trump is in any way connected to this issue. He's not even a Republican other than in name. His nomination is clearly the result of his angry nativist populism striking a chord with a large chunk of the Republican base. The establishment would, IMO, do just about anything to get rid of him.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I'd take it back further to the pandering to the science-denying fundamentalists, personally, but yeah, they certainly planted this crop, so they are at least indirectly responsible. I do think that the Republican establishment is utterly horrifed by what's happened, though.
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NCCommish
Footballguy
See though we're both sane. I believe that if you and I sat down as political leaders in a room we.could find a way to get things done. Neither of us would get everything we want but we'd be able to do some good . And there are several other posters here that are on the right I think that's true of.
I think most of us care more.about the country and its people than we do power.
Maybe I am hopelessly naive.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
I'm good too, thanks.
She's doing good. Had some rough patches but is really settling in and loving living in Nashville. Had her first gig back in April, is working on a second CD and is in the process of putting together and working with two bands, a Jazz band and a Cover band. If it works out, she'll be playing with some impressive talent in the Jazz band.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
A huge chunk of the Republican base actually believes that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim secretly supporting ISIS, and evolution and climate change are Liberal conspiracies, among other absurdities. Regulating who pisses where is a big priority for them. Critical thinking isn't exactly a strength for these folks; Trump's BS is probably pretty easy to swallow for them, all things considered.NCCommish said:
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Trump, or any other rich person, would not get elected president without the nomination of one of the parties. The parties were created by the rich, FOR THE RICH!Coeur de Lion said:
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Agree to disagree in the case of Trump. I'd definitely agree with you that this is true the other 99% of the time.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Agreed -- which is why I'm so sure that he was nominated despite the wishes of the powers-that-be in the GOP, including the serious money. No one really has any idea what he might do were he to actually win. He's literally put forth some ideas that would cause genuine global disaster; the established power brokers on both sides are horrified by him for the most part.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Okay, you don't get to complain when _______ wins.The Commish said:Yeah, this is crap. There's a minimum bar we set as voters. If they don't meet that bar, they don't meet that bar. They don't have to be exactly equal in their ineptitude of meeting that bar. There are plenty of ways to miss the mark. This should be obvious by now, but people keep wanting to try to tell other people what their vote "means".
ETA: TL'DR --> If you insist on comparison politics, compare the politicians to a standard you set, not to each other. Doing the latter gets you a "choice" between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump
ETA: And reality is crap sometimes. As in this case.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Guess it's settled thenOkay, you don't get to complain when _______ wins.The Commish said:Yeah, this is crap. There's a minimum bar we set as voters. If they don't meet that bar, they don't meet that bar. They don't have to be exactly equal in their ineptitude of meeting that bar. There are plenty of ways to miss the mark. This should be obvious by now, but people keep wanting to try to tell other people what their vote "means".
ETA: TL'DR --> If you insist on comparison politics, compare the politicians to a standard you set, not to each other. Doing the latter gets you a "choice" between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Obviously, I mean when Trump wins and wakes up in a bad mood one day and decides to carpet bomb Cabo when he can't get a zoning permit.
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AnonymousBob
Footballguy
I understand voting against her and for conservative judges. I just don't understand picking Trump to do that. There are other options who don't require a person to side with a deliberately obtuse buffoon.Jayrod said:
bueno
In a class by himself
They had to control the Tea Party or lose elections for the foreseeable future. The problem is not the Tea Party, nor Trump. The problem runs much deeper - to the collapse of the working class and decent working class wages (and I include most of the middle class in the working class here). Once you honestly identify what has them angry instead of how they are reacting to that anger, then we are on the way to finding a solution. If my opinions are correct though, I fear you may not like the answer.NCCommish said:
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Hard to take this entire post seriously by someone who's party is about to nominate HRC for president.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Bernie seems like a better person than Hillary, which, let's face it, isn't hard, but I agree that he would have been a terrible choice. Shoot, he's been in Congress for like 294 years and accomplished very little, and he's far too extreme in his views for my tastes. Clinton is an awful human being and a shameless criminal, but at least she is somewhat moderate when it comes to certain issues.pandora said:
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Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I wonder if it will still be hard to take when she wins in a massive landslide and carries the Senate with her this November? I'm no fan of Hillary, but she's just another typical politician, with all that that entails, both positive and negative. Your team nominated a bigoted uniformed clown from reality TV. Plus, he's dumber than Sarah Palin. Well done?
Enjoy the soon to be hugely Liberal SC, guy. Must be rough watching the death throes of your ideology as relevant on the national level I guess.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
My post was about the Democrats, not the Republicans. Yes, the GOP is way too extreme these days, but that doesn't make Bernie not extreme.@ calling Bernie extreme given the current state of the Republican Party.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Unpack his "extreme" views. The US is currently the only country in the developed world in which large chunks of the population lack access to healthcare and higher education. Fixing that is extreme?
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Yeah, this is just more nonsense. Your side declared the conservatives/gop dead back in 2006 when you snagged Congress, yet 4-6 years later we took both houses and most governorship and state legislatures. You say this type of stuff every time something goes your way, and every time you're proven wrong.
Sorry, but giving HRC a pass because she's "a typical politician" only exacerbates the problem. You just don't have the stones to stand up to that stuff - which makes you the perfect progressive lemming.
Oh, and btw, Trump is not my candidate as I've said repeatedly - even despite your side solidifying it's hold on corruption, shadiness and lying. And because you support HRC, I can only surmise you're okay with all that. Is Trump a clown? yes.. Bigoted? No, not really. Your side throws out terms like "racist", "sexist" and "bigot" every time someone opposes you that it's lost all meaning. You use not because it's true, but because you think it will shut down the opposition. So, like your hero HRC, you're lying as well. Congratulations!
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bueno
In a class by himself
NCCommish
Footballguy
T J
Footballguy
This is the part that frustrates me. I am definitely republican and proud of it. I despise Trump but because I'm republican and Trump is the presumptive nominee, then people think I must be for Trump.
It was a perfect storm this year. A lot of anger with Obama and too many candidates allowed Trump's niche group of supporters to be the majority - not a true majority mind you (not even close), but a majority when compared to the other candidates.
There is no scenario whatsoever I will vote for Clinton nor would I have voted for Sanders. Absolutely no chance.
I'm fairly certain Clinton wins easily which will suck big time. I'd love to see the republicans grow a pair and oust Trump still. He's an embarrassment and I hate that he's my party's nominee. Gonna look into Johnson.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Yeah he got.the name king of amendments because he has never accomplished anything. And he did preside over the biggest overhaul of our VA system in decades.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Conservative opposition won't let us fix it the way it needs to be fixed and you know it. This is hastily and poorly formulated snark on your part. I thought you fixed yourself while you were away?
