**Game Thread W1 - Philadelphia@Atlanta (4 Viewers)

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Two best teams in the NFC.

I'm not calling the Falcons #2, they were far from it last year despite their appearance in the title game. The passing game still hasn't improved. The defense may be better. Tampa is the #2 team until proven otherwise.

When did they ever prove to be so?

Hunch, if Griese can hold it together.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Their defense is still playoff caliber. It's really about if Griese can stop tripping over dogs and the o-line can will themselves to decency. They are as good as any other NFC team at the offensive skill positions, but some of that hope lies in two rookies not hitting the wall around week 10.Have you seen their schedule? They have no excuse to not win at LEAST 10 games.

 

[Kleck]

I am not a TO hater (sent him an invite to my wedding - think he'll come? haha)... but I seem to recall at least 3 passes that hit him in the hands. 2 in the first quarter, and one late in the game.

I keep meticulous notes on every play of games that I have to write a report on. I credited him with 1 drop. We may disagree with the definition of a drop.

 

[Hellfire Snail]

It's really about if Griese can stop tripping over dogs

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I am not a TO hater (sent him an invite to my wedding - think he'll come? haha)... but I seem to recall at least 3 passes that hit him in the hands. 2 in the first quarter, and one late in the game.

I keep meticulous notes on every play of games that I have to write a report on. I credited him with 1 drop. We may disagree with the definition of a drop.

I will agree that he only had 1 "drop", but there were several plays that he got his hands on the ball that he should've come down with. In a game that close on your Monday Night opener with the pre-game fiasco and everything, he has to make a few big catches that players on his salary scale get paid to do.Again, this was just my initial impression as I watched the game and I don't claim to have a better handle on your contemporaneous notes.

 

[Jaysus]

I am not a TO hater (sent him an invite to my wedding - think he'll come? haha)... but I seem to recall at least 3 passes that hit him in the hands. 2 in the first quarter, and one late in the game.

I keep meticulous notes on every play of games that I have to write a report on. I credited him with 1 drop. We may disagree with the definition of a drop.

I trust your notes over my "seem to recall" - must have confused hium with someone else.... so what are you thoughts on the wedding invitation?

 

[KevT]

Vick making the horsetrailer with 3 turnovers!!

 

[Capella]

Two best teams in the NFC. 

I'm not calling the Falcons #2, they were far from it last year despite their appearance in the title game. The passing game still hasn't improved. The defense may be better. Tampa is the #2 team until proven otherwise.

When did they ever prove to be so?

Hunch, if Griese can hold it together.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Their defense is still playoff caliber. It's really about if Griese can stop tripping over dogs and the o-line can will themselves to decency. They are as good as any other NFC team at the offensive skill positions, but some of that hope lies in two rookies not hitting the wall around week 10.Have you seen their schedule? They have no excuse to not win at LEAST 10 games.

Have I seen their schedule I had it memorized the day it came out. And you're preaching to the choir here, I have a list of reasons they could be very good this year.

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

Two best teams in the NFC.

I'm not calling the Falcons #2, they were far from it last year despite their appearance in the title game. The passing game still hasn't improved. The defense may be better. Tampa is the #2 team until proven otherwise.

When did they ever prove to be so?

Hunch, if Griese can hold it together.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Their defense is still playoff caliber. It's really about if Griese can stop tripping over dogs and the o-line can will themselves to decency. They are as good as any other NFC team at the offensive skill positions, but some of that hope lies in two rookies not hitting the wall around week 10.Have you seen their schedule? They have no excuse to not win at LEAST 10 games.

Have I seen their schedule I had it memorized the day it came out. And you're preaching to the choir here, I have a list of reasons they could be very good this year.

Seriously, he does.

 

[Billy Bats]

McNabb was just terrible tonight. Too bad he won't run anymore, since he's not a "running QB". Lavalais should have been called for spearing on McNabb's hit, won't be surprised if he's fined by Fagliabue.Vick IS NOT a good quarterback, and never will be. They should run the option O with him. Because he will never be a pocket passer.The Eagles still can't stop the run. Andy Reid is a terrible play caller, and even worse at clock management. Brian Dawkins is still the best S in the league.I'm convinced that there aren't any good TV announcers in this country.

 

[KevT]

Vick IS NOT a good quarterback, and never will be. They should run the option O with him. Because he will never be a pocket passer.

He was on the horsetrailer tonight.

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

Two best teams in the NFC.

I'm not calling the Falcons #2, they were far from it last year despite their appearance in the title game. The passing game still hasn't improved. The defense may be better. Tampa is the #2 team until proven otherwise.

After this game, it seems foolishly stubborn to call anyone but Atlanta the #1 team in the NFC.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

McNabb was just terrible tonight. Too bad he won't run anymore, since he's not a "running QB".

He's not. But he should be running to pick up yards a couple times a game. A 5 yard rush is better than an incompletion.However, I believe it's something that really holds him back, not wanting to be known as a running QB. Not because I think he should be running all the time, but it's a mental block to his growth into a complete QB because he's afraid of the label.

Lavalais should have been called for spearing on McNabb's hit, won't be surprised if he's fined by Fagliabue.

 

[Billy Bats]

Vick IS NOT a good quarterback, and never will be. They should run the option O with him. Because he will never be a pocket passer.

He was on the horsetrailer tonight.

Oh yea because Madden says he great, then he must be, right? According to them, everybody in the league is a probowler. Who else can you give it to? Dunn is the only guy on Atlanta I can think of, most everybody stunk. If the Eagles pulled out a win, Dawkins would have been the man.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Two best teams in the NFC.

I'm not calling the Falcons #2, they were far from it last year despite their appearance in the title game. The passing game still hasn't improved. The defense may be better. Tampa is the #2 team until proven otherwise.

After this game, it seems foolishly stubborn to call anyone but Atlanta the #1 team in the NFC.

Please. For all we know the Eagles end up 6-10 this year. This win won't look so impressive will it? Little if anything is truly decided in week one.

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

Vick IS NOT a good quarterback, and never will be.

He continues to put his team in a position to win. His exceptional ability to make the big play is a large part of this, but more importantly he forces the defense into strange formations to guard against him, and benefits the whole of their offense because of it. Though he will never pass for 250 yards consistently with his current play style, I don't think Arthur Blank and Jim Mora will be up at night worrying about it if Vick continues to produce at the level he did last season. Quarterback is a results-oriented position. Vick is a winner.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I am not a TO hater (sent him an invite to my wedding - think he'll come? haha)... but I seem to recall at least 3 passes that hit him in the hands.  2 in the first quarter, and one late in the game.

I keep meticulous notes on every play of games that I have to write a report on. I credited him with 1 drop. We may disagree with the definition of a drop.

Something along the lines of: Hit him in the hands?Considering dropped passes (especially from a guy on "my team") is a huge pet peeve of mine - I didn't notice that many from TO.

 

[KevT]

Vick IS NOT a good quarterback, and never will be. They should run the option O with him. Because he will never be a pocket passer.

He was on the horsetrailer tonight.

Oh yea because Madden says he great, then he must be, right? According to them, everybody in the league is a probowler. Who else can you give it to? Dunn is the only guy on Atlanta I can think of, most everybody stunk. If the Eagles pulled out a win, Dawkins would have been the man.

Kevin Mathis for taking Trotter out, or the guy that put his helmet into McNabb's sternum. How can you put a guy with 3 turnovers on the horsetrailer?

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

How can you put a guy with 3 turnovers on the horsetrailer?

You take his picture then attach it to the side of the trailer with some sort of adhesive.

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

Two best teams in the NFC.

I'm not calling the Falcons #2, they were far from it last year despite their appearance in the title game. The passing game still hasn't improved. The defense may be better. Tampa is the #2 team until proven otherwise.

After this game, it seems foolishly stubborn to call anyone but Atlanta the #1 team in the NFC.

Please. For all we know the Eagles end up 6-10 this year. This win won't look so impressive will it? Little if anything is truly decided in week one.

That's possible, but it seems unlikely. The Eagles' past success and current roster makeup would indicate that they are still a high-level team, deserving of a ranking in that group immediately following Atlanta in the NFC.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Two best teams in the NFC. 

I'm not calling the Falcons #2, they were far from it last year despite their appearance in the title game. The passing game still hasn't improved. The defense may be better. Tampa is the #2 team until proven otherwise.

When did they ever prove to be so?

Hunch, if Griese can hold it together.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Their defense is still playoff caliber. It's really about if Griese can stop tripping over dogs and the o-line can will themselves to decency. They are as good as any other NFC team at the offensive skill positions, but some of that hope lies in two rookies not hitting the wall around week 10.Have you seen their schedule? They have no excuse to not win at LEAST 10 games.

Have I seen their schedule I had it memorized the day it came out. And you're preaching to the choir here, I have a list of reasons they could be very good this year.

Seriously, he does.

Just to be clear - are we really arguing "We're #2"?

 

[KevT]

How can you put a guy with 3 turnovers on the horsetrailer?

You take his picture then attach it to the side of the trailer with some sort of adhesive.

Wow!! I learn something new everyday on this board.

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

Dunn is the only guy on Atlanta I can think of, most everybody stunk. If the Eagles pulled out a win, Dawkins would have been the man.

The original Jim Mora has a speech on "woulda, coulda, shoulda" that you might find illuminating.

 

[Billy Bats]

Vick IS NOT a good quarterback, and never will be.

He continues to put his team in a position to win. His exceptional ability to make the big play is a large part of this, but more importantly he forces the defense into strange formations to guard against him, and benefits the whole of their offense because of it. Though he will never pass for 250 yards consistently with his current play style, I don't think Arthur Blank and Jim Mora will be up at night worrying about it if Vick continues to produce at the level he did last season. Quarterback is a results-oriented position. Vick is a winner.

Blah blah, blah blah blah, blah blah. That's what I read when I hear this repeated bullsh!it argument. How many playoff games has he won? Oh, winner. My point is he is not a good QB. QUARTERBACK. He is a great athlete, nothing more.

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

contemporaneous notes

As opposed to his archaic ones?Comprehensive, perhaps?

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

contemporaneous notes

As opposed to his archaic ones?Comprehensive, perhaps?

No, contemporaneous notes.Note taking at the time the events occur.

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

How many playoff games has he won? Oh, winner.

Thus far, he beat Green Bay at home and led his team to the NFC Championship game in his two full years starting.

My point is he is not a good QB. QUARTERBACK. He is a great athlete, nothing more.

Your point seems to be that he is not a good passer. The position of quarterback is only traditionally oriented on throwing. The way Michael Vick plays the position, success as a quarterback is quite possible without tremendous success as a passer. As I noted before, quarterback is a results-oriented position.

 

[Billy Bats]

McNabb was just terrible tonight. Too bad he won't run anymore, since he's not a "running QB".

He's not. But he should be running to pick up yards a couple times a game. A 5 yard rush is better than an incompletion.However, I believe it's something that really holds him back, not wanting to be known as a running QB. Not because I think he should be running all the time, but it's a mental block to his growth into a complete QB because he's afraid of the label.

I was being sarcastic because he refuses to run for that reason. Point being, take off after you've held the ball for 10 seconds and nobody's open. Even Drew Bledsoe would run at that point.

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

Andy Reid is a terrible play caller.

On what authority, or with what evidence, do you assert this? Most knowledgable observers and league professionals consider Reid to be a tremendous playcaller.

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

contemporaneous notes

As opposed to his archaic ones?Comprehensive, perhaps?

No, contemporaneous notes.Note taking at the time the events occur.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

That's possible, but it seems unlikely. The Eagles' past success and current roster makeup would indicate that they are still a high-level team, deserving of a ranking in that group immediately following Atlanta in the NFC.

Atlanta isn't #1, the Eagles aren't #2. No one is anything after week one. Declaring the Falcons #1 after one win is ridiculous.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

contemporaneous notes

As opposed to his archaic ones?Comprehensive, perhaps?

No, contemporaneous notes.Note taking at the time the events occur.

Any lawyers here?

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

That's possible, but it seems unlikely. The Eagles' past success and current roster makeup would indicate that they are still a high-level team, deserving of a ranking in that group immediately following Atlanta in the NFC.

Atlanta isn't #1, the Eagles aren't #2. No one is anything after week one. Declaring the Falcons #1 after one win is ridiculous.

Your logic indicates that you believe it's impossible to rank teams after one week of the season. Some people disagree with you. Since you believe that you can't rank the teams at all, there's really no need for you to interject. After week 17, you can rank the non-playoff temas based on their records, and after Super Bowl XL you can rank the rest based on their time of elimination in the playoffs.For the rest of us, who find it interesting or illuminating to get a sense of how good teams are at different points throughout the year (because it does change--note the Bills and Panthers last year), we will continue to offer opinions, hopefully supported by some sort of evidence, on the current strength of teams. You are free, of course, to disagree with those opinions, or not interject whatsoever. It seems that the second option might be best for all parties.

After week one, in the NFC:

1. Atlanta

2. Philadelphia

3. Tampa Bay

4. Minnesota

 

[Billy Bats]

Andy Reid is a terrible play caller.

On what authority, or with what evidence, do you assert this? Most knowledgable observers and league professionals consider Reid to be a tremendous playcaller.

Well then I guess I'm an idiot. Never claimed to be authority, just my opinion. Can I have one? Didn't come up with anything good tonight. What do you think?I don't know, 3rd and ten, throw a backward lateral screen. Good stuff.

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

3rd and ten, throw a backward lateral screen.

That wasn't the playcall. Westbrook got pushed vertically by the rush, and McNabb overadjusted. If anything, blame him.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

That's possible, but it seems unlikely. The Eagles' past success and current roster makeup would indicate that they are still a high-level team, deserving of a ranking in that group immediately following Atlanta in the NFC.

Atlanta isn't #1, the Eagles aren't #2. No one is anything after week one. Declaring the Falcons #1 after one win is ridiculous.

Your logic indicates that you believe it's impossible to rank teams after one week of the season. Some people disagree with you. Since you believe that you can't rank the teams at all, there's really no need for you to interject. After week 17, you can rank the non-playoff temas based on their records, and after Super Bowl XL you can rank the rest based on their time of elimination in the playoffs.

Mostly correct. I find it fruitless to declare a team the best in their conference after one game. We have no real idea what the Eagles are going to be this year. We have no real idea what the Falcons are going to be this year. For all we know, this is one of 4 games the Falcons win and tonight was just an off night for the Eagles. Give every team in the league 4 games, and we can start to make intelligent guesses on who is who. Based on their play, I think Carolina, New Orleans and Tampa all looked better in their games than the Falcons, but this is 101% subjective after 1 week. After the teams have played a few games @home, a few away and against some common opponents, we maybe know who was a fake in week 1 and who was legit.

In summary, I think it's silly to rank any team #1 in their conference after 1 week. Why not just make the entire season single elimination playoffs? Last team standing wins.

 

[Billy Bats]

3rd and ten, throw a backward lateral screen.

That wasn't the playcall. Westbrook got pushed vertically by the rush, and McNabb overadjusted. If anything, blame him.

Yea I did earlier, said he(McNabb) stunk tonight. What are you Andy Reid's son or something? The whole Eagles team was terrible, no one is free of blame from this horror show. Shouldn't happen with a veteran team, and coach. Inexcusable.

 

[Alonso de Cordoba]

contemporaneous notes

As opposed to his archaic ones?Comprehensive, perhaps?

No, contemporaneous notes.Note taking at the time the events occur.

Any lawyers here?

I know what you intended, but my impression was that Shick was not attending the game. The phrase "contemporaneous notes," usually used in reference to notes taken during a meeting, implies notetaking as events occur in front of you. It's a slight misusage to employ the phrase to Shick's notes taken in observation of the televised game.The rest of it was just me giving you a hard time.

 

[plapla]

I think Mcnabb gets too much credit for an excellent eagles defense, they dont allow pts, whatever the stats look like.

Here comes the Rush Limbaugh crowd, quick to strike after a week 1 loss.

This isnt after a wk 1 loss, its every BIG game ive seen him play. Considering this could cost home field throughout the playoffs, like indy's loss to the pats last year, yes its a BIG wk 1 loss.

 

[pizzatyme]

"Do you want answers? I want the truth! You can't handle the truth!"Have a nice day!

 

[Thunderlips]

As an Eagles fan why would I worry about this loss? The only significant damper that came out of that game is the fact that McNabb got hit with a cheap shot and might not be 100% for a few weeks. Noone is going to go 16 - 0 so you might as well get your losses out of the way early in the season.

 

[Jason Wood]

As an Eagles fan why would I worry about this loss? The only significant damper that came out of that game is the fact that McNabb got hit with a cheap shot and might not be 100% for a few weeks. Noone is going to go 16 - 0 so you might as well get your losses out of the way early in the season.

It's not so much worry as be disappointed. It's only one week, so nothing is written in stone. But it's not out of the question to think ATL and PHI could be battling for home field at year end and now Philly has to one up them, versus the other way around. Identical records at year end means the NFC goes through ATL, and that's something to be disappointed about as an Eagles fan regardless of whether it happened in Week One or Week Seventeen.

 

[DaVinci]

As an Eagles fan why would I worry about this loss? The only significant damper that came out of that game is the fact that McNabb got hit with a cheap shot and might not be 100% for a few weeks. Noone is going to go 16 - 0 so you might as well get your losses out of the way early in the season.

 

[KevT]

As an Eagles fan why would I worry about this loss? The only significant damper that came out of that game is the fact that McNabb got hit with a cheap shot and might not be 100% for a few weeks. Noone is going to go 16 - 0 so you might as well get your losses out of the way early in the season.

It's not so much worry as be disappointed. It's only one week, so nothing is written in stone. But it's not out of the question to think ATL and PHI could be battling for home field at year end and now Philly has to one up them, versus the other way around. Identical records at year end means the NFC goes through ATL, and that's something to be disappointed about as an Eagles fan regardless of whether it happened in Week One or Week Seventeen.

You don't have to worry about the Falcons competing with the Eagles for homefield, the Falcons won't make the playoffs this year. Their schedule is much harder last year. And last night was a fluke. Trotter goes out before the game starts and McNabb gets hit with a helmet to the sternum. Shouldn't there have been a penalty on that play, the player lead with his helmet.I'm a big Falcons' fan, I know it doesn't show, but I don't think the team will ever win a Superbowl with Vick here. It's really a shame, they got a great defense, and Vick is holding them back on offense.

 

[The_Hunchback]

Shouldn't there have been a penalty on that play, the player lead with his helmet.

The NFL will review it as they do all plays. The poster above that cried about it needs to get over it, players do get hit in the NFL.

 

[shakeybarn]

Shouldn't there have been a penalty on that play, the player lead with his helmet.

The NFL will review it as they do all plays. The poster above that cried about it needs to get over it, players do get hit in the NFL.

His head was up enough. What was ridiculous was a 15 yard penalty when Vick was running towards the first down marker in the first qtr... and the push was as he was crossing the sideline. The push was essential at that place so as to keep him from getting to the first down... and it wasn't even a HIT. The push was blatantly to get him before. If it was at some random place, and dude went in for the hit, then yes. What happens when 'babying QBs' goes awry.Also, per the Vick argument... the Atlanta D is so underrated on their success it's disgusting. They CARRIED Vick to a win last night. Period. They usually do. I'd have to include Atlanta special teams too, but they were so-so last night. A Vick team down 21 points in the 3rd qtr, 9 times out of 10 are done. The guy has the following overall stats:

50 TDs in 44 games (passing AND rushing)

48 turnovers (INTs/fumbles) in 44 games

And the guy is somehow "all world"... curious what numbers Vick gets on the Bunlges or the Cards... sorry I just see him 9 times out of 10 in an easy position to win. I can't see him pulling off what Peyton did last year vs the Bucs, or the ability to get (and stay in) a shootout like Daunte can.

Granted what he does on broken/holed up plays is fun to watch, you can't take that away. I just think he gets a bit too much credit as a QB and or winning every game.

 

[The_Hunchback]

Hard to tell if you are a phillly fan or not. I agree the penalty for pushing Vick was weak, and it looked like the philly player (Lewis?) was trying to pull his arms back. Go be an NFL referee and see how easy it is though. The refs didn't make Atl win this game, philly played pretty pathetic from what I saw besides a few nice plays.

 

[Lady Falcon]

On a side note, it was great to see the Atlanta fans getting into the game. In years past, we NEVER had sell-out games, so home games were always blacked out. Since Arthur Blank took over, everything has improved, and it's about time. I've been a Falcon fan for over thirty years, so to see the team achieve a little success is very gratifying. Maybe this will be the year that we break the streak of never having back-to-back winning seasons.

 

[KevT]

Maybe this will be the year that we break the streak of never having back-to-back winning seasons.

Hope you're right, but the schedule this year is very tough, I hope "our" defense can keep it up. I was really surprised last night to see so many Falcons' fans with face paint, just have never seen that here in Atlanta. It's great to really have home team advantage.