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Gas prices: worse than '81 oil shock (1 Viewer)

How many years have I been b######g about gold?

What has your government done?

1. MASSIVE debt spending.

2. Cut interest rates.

3. Cut taxes.

All of this is highly inflationary put together.

So the value of the US Dollar starts falling. Commodities start rising. I've gone over this again and again.

STOP BLAMING THE OIL COMPANIES.
Whoa.. I think someones next shot is over due. :bag:
I'm telling you how this will go.This will eventually spill over into overall prices. The price of beef and milk will skyrocket. There will be calls for the government to step in and regulate and control prices. It may even happen. We actually did see some under Nixon (and they failed miserably) You really are not far off from the USSR at that point.
I agree the cost will flow down and the Left will then blame Bush for inflation. But your use of ALL CAPS sent a "going postal" warning towards me ;) :thumbup:

;)

 
I'm also telling you this is a CLASSIC way to turn a free society into an empire.1. The government creates MASSIVE inflationary pressures.2. The public doesn't understand economics, and when inflation appears, the public blames BUSINESSES and not the government.3. The government rides in on a white horse to "protect" the people from "the free market" and establishes tight controls on economic activity.4. The people lose the financial freedom, and that's when they essentially become slaves.
Where has this happened before?
That would be Adolf Hitler, who rose to power on a wave of an economic crisis with rampant inflation. And turned Germany from a free society into an empire.
 
5 years from now you will dream about $3 gas as you pay $4-6 a gallon. Demand keeps going up and production cannot. There won't be another refinery built....ever.
:lmao:
Wow, that's sad. Pretty simple concept that you are unable to grasp. The price will continue to go up until demand drops.
:yes: i'm confused by your absolute statement that no new refineries will be built....... ever.
 
should we not be enraged that Venezuelans pay $0.12 a gallon?

i mean.. we're paying a LOT more than that. :lmao:
As soon as we can drill in our own backyard and supply our own oil then we can have those prices to.
BUT WE'RE AMERICA! just flipping the idea that we should all shut up because Europeans pay $7 a gallon. :yes: doesn't quite work like that... if we should eat #### because Europe pays double. shouldn't we be burning embassies because Venezuelans pay a fraction of what we do?

yeah it's stupid. but so is the idea that because Europeans are taxed outrageously.. that we should be content we're not. ;)

dunno what the two have to do with each other. we're talking American gas prices.. not European.
You keep saying the Republicans are saying this, but I have only seen ONE person in here who has said that, he doesn't even live in the US!Please point out where all these Republicans are saying this.

TYVM
i really don't have the time to browse every single email, newspaper, website and article in the FFA. sorry.eta: and i don't think "you keep saying this" applies. as i only said it once in a clearly hyperbolicsesquiedalamystic manner in post #1.

 
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I'm also telling you this is a CLASSIC way to turn a free society into an empire.1. The government creates MASSIVE inflationary pressures.2. The public doesn't understand economics, and when inflation appears, the public blames BUSINESSES and not the government.3. The government rides in on a white horse to "protect" the people from "the free market" and establishes tight controls on economic activity.4. The people lose the financial freedom, and that's when they essentially become slaves.
Where has this happened before?
That would be Adolf Hitler, who rose to power on a wave of an economic crisis with rampant inflation. And turned Germany from a free society into an empire.
I'm certainly no expert, but while I agree that Germany's economic hardships helped create an environment conducive to Hitler's rise, I would say that they had a lot more to do with how the the costs of World War I than it did with government created inflation. In addition to actually funding their war effort, the victorious WWI nations made Germany pay a ton of reparations that really put a strain on the country.Like I said, I'm no expert, but that's what I've always thought. Do you have any specific examples showing how the "government", and Hitler specifically, "created inflation" in the post-WWI Germany?
 
We could also look at the French 1968 riots as "a close call" where France nearly tilted towards becoming an empire. And that was fueled by high inflation issues as well. That was probably the biggest example of inflation nearly leading to that result in the 60s-70s.

 
Surely inflation is gonna get real bad. I think odds are extremely high some western nation(s) will reorganize into an empire because of this.

 
The current price increases are due to problems in gasoline supplies and refinery output.

While crude oil prices have fallen over the last few weeks and oil supplies are high in the United States, problems at several refineries have crimped gasoline output ahead of the summer driving season.

The refinery problems include fires, power outages, and longer-than-usual maintenance periods.
XWhat have I been saying on this board for the last 3-4 years? There is a COMMODITIES BULL MARKET. OIL, GOLD, COPPER, ETC. ITS ALL GOING UP. Its not the refineries.

Big Oil went on the defensive Wednesday, getting grilled before a House panel and denying accusations that mismanagement and a lack of competition are the reasons behind this spring's record gasoline prices.
And the oil companies are GD right, too. This is being caused by YOUR GOVERNMENT. Your government has been powering up inflation to ward off an economic slide. The price you pay for that is HIGHER COMMODITIES. Sooner of later, that will spill into the general market and all prices will start shooting up. The government causes the problem, and then it acts innocent and tries to paint "Big Oil" as the culprit. The oil companies should be absolutely P.O.'ed over this.
your singular fascination with gold is incredibly interesting to me.asperger's?

 
I'm at lunch today. ABC radio news comes on for the top of the hour break. "Gas prices are up" is the story. So, they go to interview this lady: "A year ago I was driving a Pathfinder. So, we bought a Camry and put the Pathfinder in the garage. It has really helped."

How does it help to spend $30,000 so that you'll get 10 mpg more?

15k miles per year at 10 extra mpg x even $1 per gallon higher = $1,500 less in gas.

 
Slightly related to this discussion, especially about US auto companies and moving away from standard internal combustion engines. Saw an ad for the new line of Saturn hybrids, one of them is a V-12? Anyone have a good grasp on how much a V-12 hybrid is going to save on fuel? I would think that a V-12 hybrid would probably be about as fuel efficient as a standard 6 or 4 cyl. Am I way off here?Schlzm
I think you are making the assumption that the V12 has the same individual cylinder (combustion chamber) size as a V8. The total volume of the combustion chambers is what will determine the how much gas is used.This is why you see the "liter" rating on the engine. A 5.0 liter V8 uses more gas than a 4.2 liter V8. That hybrid has 12 small cylinders as opposed to 6 or 4 larger ones.
I understand the X.XL rating for each engine. However a 1.5L V-12 (18 total litres) will consume for fuel than a 2.0L V-8 (16 total litres) unless severe RPM governing and gear ratios are set in place. This is however why I asked for clarification about this newfangled V-12 hybrid, just curious about the hard data.Schlzm
I could be wrong as I'm no expert (nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn) on engine lingo but I thought the liter rating was for the entire engine. So 1.5L V-12 would use less gas then a 2.0 Liter V-8 (just plugging in numbers, a 2.0 V-8 would be a damn small V-8).Can anyone elaborate?
I'm pretty sure it's engine size and not cylinders. For instance if someone says "I have a 3 liter engine" you don't have to ask how many cylinders to know he has a 3 liter engine.
After thinking about it having the L cover the entire engine makes more sense, otherwise a Mustang 5.0 would get something like 2 MPG. :nerd: Schlzm
 
How many years have I been b######g about gold?What has your government done? 1. MASSIVE debt spending.2. Cut interest rates.3. Cut taxes.All of this is highly inflationary put together.So the value of the US Dollar starts falling. Commodities start rising. I've gone over this again and again.STOP BLAMING THE OIL COMPANIES.
All three of your examples have been in place for 4+ years, yet oil has only skyrocketed over the last year +. What about the time of massive inflation in the late 70's and 80's? Gas prices are higher now than then with much lower inflation. If you think the oil companies aren't loving this, and that refinery capacity has nothing to do with it, well then you may want to think about pulling your head out of your ###.
 
You can blame the French at least partially…I mentioned in an earlier post that one of the main reasons gasoline inventories are so tight was lower imports over the last few months– one of the reasons for the lower imports was a strike at a French port.

 
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Surely inflation is gonna get real bad. I think odds are extremely high some western nation(s) will reorganize into an empire because of this.
I think you're mis-using the term "empire". Totalitarianism? Authoritarianism? Socialism? I think those might be more what you mean...
 
How many years have I been b######g about gold?

What has your government done?

1. MASSIVE debt spending.

2. Cut interest rates.

3. Cut taxes.

All of this is highly inflationary put together.

So the value of the US Dollar starts falling. Commodities start rising. I've gone over this again and again.

STOP BLAMING THE OIL COMPANIES.
All three of your examples have been in place for 4+ years, yet oil has only skyrocketed over the last year +. What about the time of massive inflation in the late 70's and 80's? Gas prices are higher now than then with much lower inflation. If you think the oil companies aren't loving this, and that refinery capacity has nothing to do with it, well then you may want to think about pulling your head out of your ###.
;) this thread just got a lot more interesting.. :wub:

 
I'm also telling you this is a CLASSIC way to turn a free society into an empire.1. The government creates MASSIVE inflationary pressures.2. The public doesn't understand economics, and when inflation appears, the public blames BUSINESSES and not the government.3. The government rides in on a white horse to "protect" the people from "the free market" and establishes tight controls on economic activity.4. The people lose the financial freedom, and that's when they essentially become slaves.
Ask Jimmy Carter if business gets blamed for inflation.
 
actually, we probably will get some inflation but generally this will lead to recession in the short term. People's demand for gasoline won't change much, other then extra driving. We live in a motorized society and built our lives around the auto and ability to travel. What will happen is people will make cuts to the budget in other places and some people won't be able to manage. Prices will eventually go up related to increased cost. So we have 2 huge issues that spell bad for the economy. Decreased spending capacity and increased prices. We are in for doodoo.

 
The oil companies are anti-competitive despite their claims to the contrary. They store their products in shared tanks instead of building indivivdual ones to hold down supply. They close refineries because they claim not to have the money to upfit them. They let refineries stay off line so that they can justify prices. Mergers have crippled true competition. So now everytime a trader gets an itchy finger our prices go up despite the lack of rationality to it.

Oh and for all those blaming boutique gas guess who supported that idea all out? The oil companies lobbied individual states to come up with their own blends rather than adopt federal reformulation standards. So spare me the "they need to get ready for the onerous goverment regulation to kick in each season". They wanted them so they would have an excuse.

 
actually, we probably will get some inflation but generally this will lead to recession in the short term. People's demand for gasoline won't change much, other then extra driving. We live in a motorized society and built our lives around the auto and ability to travel. What will happen is people will make cuts to the budget in other places and some people won't be able to manage. Prices will eventually go up related to increased cost. So we have 2 huge issues that spell bad for the economy. Decreased spending capacity and increased prices. We are in for doodoo.
Peoples' demand for better miles per gallon will go up though. That may well be bad for the American carmakers but not necessarily for the consumer. Clearly some low income households will be worse off though for having older uneconomical cars/trucks whose value just plummeted - making them unable to upgrade to better milage transportation. There is opportunity there as well though.
 
actually, we probably will get some inflation but generally this will lead to recession in the short term. People's demand for gasoline won't change much, other then extra driving. We live in a motorized society and built our lives around the auto and ability to travel. What will happen is people will make cuts to the budget in other places and some people won't be able to manage. Prices will eventually go up related to increased cost. So we have 2 huge issues that spell bad for the economy. Decreased spending capacity and increased prices. We are in for doodoo.
Peoples' demand for better miles per gallon will go up though. That may well be bad for the American carmakers but not necessarily for the consumer. Clearly some low income households will be worse off though for having older uneconomical cars/trucks whose value just plummeted - making them unable to upgrade to better milage transportation. There is opportunity there as well though.
yes there is money to be made and decisions to consider. Right now I have some money left owed on a ford focus but am seriously considering trying to get a hybrid given the amount of driving I do on one of my jobs.
 
actually, we probably will get some inflation but generally this will lead to recession in the short term. People's demand for gasoline won't change much, other then extra driving. We live in a motorized society and built our lives around the auto and ability to travel. What will happen is people will make cuts to the budget in other places and some people won't be able to manage. Prices will eventually go up related to increased cost. So we have 2 huge issues that spell bad for the economy. Decreased spending capacity and increased prices. We are in for doodoo.
Peoples' demand for better miles per gallon will go up though. That may well be bad for the American carmakers but not necessarily for the consumer. Clearly some low income households will be worse off though for having older uneconomical cars/trucks whose value just plummeted - making them unable to upgrade to better milage transportation. There is opportunity there as well though.
yes there is money to be made and decisions to consider. Right now I have some money left owed on a ford focus but am seriously considering trying to get a hybrid given the amount of driving I do on one of my jobs.
What are you going to get that's a serious fuel efficiency upgrade to a Focus? A scooter?
 
#### YEAH AMERICA! EAT IT WORLD!! :lmao:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/21/news/econo...dex.htm?cnn=yes

Gas prices: Worse than '81 oil shock

Gas now at highest level, even adjusted for inflation; AAA's reading of nearly $3.20 a gallon marks ninth straight record high in current dollars.

May 21 2007: 8:31 AM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Gasoline prices soared to levels never seen before as even the inflation-adjusted price for a gallon of unleaded topped the 1981 record spike in price that had stood for 26 years.

And higher prices could be on the way as Americans get ready to hit the road for the Memorial Day holiday and the start of the summer driving season.

The Lundberg Survey, a bi-weekly gas price tracking service, put the price of a gallon of unleaded at $3.18 in its latest reading released late Sunday, up more than 11 cents from its reading of two weeks ago.

While gasoline had already been in record territory in current dollars, Trilby Lundberg, publisher of the survey, said this is the first time that her survey topped her 1981 record high when adjusted for inflation. The price of $1.35 in 1981 works out to $3.15 in current dollars, she said. The Iran-Iraq war, which started the year before, choked off oil supplies to the global market, causing that spike in prices.

The motorist group AAA does a daily survey of up to 85,000 gas stations, but that reading does not go back to the 1981 spike. It's survey has been showing a series of record high prices in current dollars since May 13, and Monday the average price for a gallon of self-serve unleaded hit $3.196, the ninth straight record high and up from Sunday's record of $3.178.

The AAA survey now shows prices up 4 percent over the course of the last week, along with an increase of 11.8 percent over the last month.

AAA warned in congressional testimony last week it believes that more record prices could be on the way. It is forecasting prices will approach $3.25 a gallon over the next 60 days.

Still AAA is predicting a record number of Americans will be hitting the road holiday weekend, with 38.3 million expected to be traveling 100 miles or more over the Memorial Day holiday, up 1.7 percent from a year ago. And most of those - 32.1 million - will be driving on their trip, according to the motorist group.

Topping post-Katrina records

Before this recent run of record-high gas prices, the highest price ever recorded in current dollars was $3.057 in the AAA survey, which was set Sept. 4 and Sept. 5, 2005, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. That storm disrupted refinery operations and pipelines and caused a temporary spike, sending prices above the $3 mark for eight days.

The only other time that the AAA national average has topped the $3 mark was in August 2006, after Israel invaded Lebanon and oil futures shot higher. Gas prices then reached as high as $3.036 during that 19-day spike.

The current price increases are due to problems in gasoline supplies and refinery output. The average gas price went above $3 a gallon on May 4, and has been climbing since. Unless prices fall suddenly, Wednesday will mark the longest stretch of $3 gas on the AAA survey's history.

Few states have an average gas price below $3. California had the highest average price, with a gallon of self-serve unleaded costing $3.457, up slightly from the $3.453 reading Sunday after several days of prices slipping slightly there.

New Jersey retained the lead in the race to have the cheapest average gas price, but it is quickly approaching the $3 a gallon threshold itself. The average price there came in at $2.938 a gallon in the Monday reading, up from $2.93 Sunday.

New Jersey is one of only three states with an average price below the $3 mark. The other two - South Carolina and New Hampshire - are both within a penny or less of that mark, after both rose in the latest reading.

Four more states - Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee and Virginia - became the latest states to cross that $3 a gallon benchmark in the Sunday survey.

While crude oil prices have fallen over the last few weeks and oil supplies are high in the United States, problems at several refineries have crimped gasoline output ahead of the summer driving season.

The refinery problems include fires, power outages, and longer-than-usual maintenance periods.

The run-up in prices is a big concern for store chains, according to the retailers' trade group. Its survey released early Friday found the average consumer believes that the price of gas will reach $3.32 per gallon by Father's Day.

As a result, 40.2 percent of consumers are taking fewer shopping trips, while 37.9 percent told the survey they plan to shop closer to home. In addition, 30.7 percent said they are shopping for sales more often and 23.5 percent are using more coupons.

6 ways to lower gas prices

Perhaps of greatest concern to the retailers, 24.1 percent said they are spending less on clothing, while only one in five have delayed major purchases, such as a car, television or furniture, and 31.1 percent are dining out less.

"Consumers are entering the summer season with a cautious view of increasing gas prices," NRF President and CEO Tracy Mullin said. "To offset the effects of higher prices, more consumers are giving their wallets a little extra cushion by cutting back on discretionary spending or choosing to frequent retailers closer to home."

Interestingly enough, the retailers' survey also found that 32.6 percent have decreased their vacation travel plans this year, despite the AAA survey that projected a record number of Americans on the highways this weekend.

Major retailers were reporting weak April sales even before the recent spike in gasoline prices started earlier this month. Wal-Mart Stores (Charts, Fortune 500), the world's largest retailer, had its worst sales comparison on record in April as it forecast essentially flat sales at stores open at least a year in May, a closely watched measure of retail strength known as same-store sales.

Overall same-store sales in April were among the weakest on record as other major retailers including Target (Charts, Fortune 500), Gap (Charts, Fortune 500), Federated Department Stores (Charts, Fortune 500) and J.C. Penney (Charts, Fortune 500) all reported declines in that key sales measure.

Big Oil went on the defensive Wednesday, getting grilled before a House panel and denying accusations that mismanagement and a lack of competition are the reasons behind this spring's record gasoline prices.
Apparently this is all Obama's fault.

 
$3.58 here in MD.

$3.68 20 miles away in PA

For some reason PA's gas prices have been exceeding MD's lately.

 
$3.30 in Louisiana. Insane.
Must be nice....been at $3.80 range here in upstate NY for a while.....think it was $3.55 range this past winter. Haven't seen 3.30 in years
I've seen it as low as $3.20 and as high as $3.60 in the last week, depending on where in Louisiana.

When your state is the third leading refinery state in the union, you expect slightly lower gas prices.

 
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