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crazy
Lol-One VJ has also had his trouble with the law.Two Gates was/is the best TE in the league.Three Tony G and Shannon Sharpe both produced into their 30s- Gates' guaranteed money will be gone by the time he is 34.Four- 2800 yards and 25 TDs the past 3 seasons on those bad feet.Much (much, much) harder to replace Gates production than VJs.
I agree with this. Gates had the messy situation the last time there was a money dispute and ended up susepended to start the year. Getting him in camp and happy is going to make Gates even that much more effective. Conditioning of atheletes, and see Tony G for example, is so much better than before. Gates should compete at a high level for the duration of his contract. This is a great signing by the Chargers and a nice middle finger gesture that VJax deserves.
Which Jackson should understand...which means he has no reason to be insulted by it unless he's justs wants to be insulted.Gates just had a great season. He's still better at his position than Jackson is at his and perhaps ever will be. You could even make the argument that Gates is a better receiver than Jackson is today.
You don't think a TE can be productive at 34 years of age?As a Charger fan I'd settle for a few more down years of 79/1157/8.
I don't know that I would go that far but I do think he is overvalued here. That being said i think that's a crazy deal for Gates at this stage of his career with his consistent injury issues.
I think 5 years is a little over the top. I can't see him producing at these levels for that long but hey, it's not my money.I also don't think that this is a direct slap in the face. If that's how the Chargers do business, throwing millions of dollars around to prove a point to another guy who very likely could be out of SD this year would be silly. Good for Gates if that's the case, but my guess is they don't think VJ will be around and they figured they better lock up Gates as their top receiving option for now and they'll try and either bring someone in soon to try and replace VJ or get someone via the draft.
I see it this way too. Gates has had 6 years of top production at his position. Jackson has been in the league five years and only has two, actually only 1 that is in the same range of production as Gates. Is Jackson a good receiver? Yes. But he is not nearly as great as some people on this board like to think and he has character issues as well. That offense was rolling with Gates before Jackson finally figured out how to be productive and it will be effective without Jackson.Over the last three years Jackson has 2888 yards, an average of 926 yards; 168 receptions, an average of 56/season; 19 Tds, an average of 6.3/season.Compare that to another WR who is almost the same age (29 compared to 27), who has played with a much worse QB in a much worse offense:2478 yards; 826/season; 162 receptions, 54/season; 15 TDs, 5 TDs/season.Jackson has done better than the comparison, but not by much. And when you compare his QB and offense, there really is no comparison in terms of the support and opportunity he has had. Who is the other wr? Lee Evans, who is hated on this board and is ranked around 45th best WR (61st in FBG's dynasty rankings) while Jackson is considered a top 10 or even top 5 WR. Does anyone really think that Jackson would have done any better in Buffalo than Evans has done? Is he really worth 50 million?
I don't think there's a question of if he deserves it, he's been one of the best and is still a top 3 TE for now. This contract isn't for all of those years though. The question I have is this, is he going to sustain this type of production for the next 5 years? I could see a 2 to 3 year deal for the same average amount but I think the Chargers will be paying too much towards the end of the contract. Will it matter this year? No, he should have a monster year, I'm talking a few years down the line.
A.J. Smith doesn't need lessons from us in cap management. I would be stunned if this deal was structured in such a way as to be an impediment to the Chargers long term growth. The non guaranteed nature of out years on NFL contracts is what keeps teams from making catastrophic decisions like they do all too frequently in the NBA and MLB.
The team has access to his medical records that we don't. You may be right but I think Gonzalez is the closest parallel and he has played well into his mid 30s.
The idea that he would overpay one guy just to insult another guy is just plain stupid.
With regard to the thread title, I completely disagree. It has nothing to do with Jackson. A.J. Smith has said all along that his top priority among the players who want/need new deals was Gates. Like him or not, Smith typically does what he says, and this is another example.
This.
I was just coming here to post this.I'm not the biggest AJ Smith fan around, but to think that a business man would pay someone $35 million more ($20 million guaranteed) just to make a point with somebody else is beyond silly.The idea that he would overpay one guy just to insult another guy is just plain stupid.
ceo3west said:
That may be true, and we'll have to see how it plays out. But the idea that paying Gates is a less efficient and prudent means to deploy the Spanos' capital than it would be to (over)pay Jackson still falls flat, IMHO.
I assume you are referring to the WRs, but the "receiving corps" includes Gates and Sproles, so I strongly disagree that their receiving corps is one of the worst in the league. As for the WRs, unproven does not mean they will be bad. Floyd is actually quite good IMO, and Naanee has good potential.
I do agree that HOF TE's are harder to come by than number 1 WR's. But both are important commodities and I think it's interesting that one is re-signed and the other is treated poorly.
Yes I am talking about the WR's. And I wouldn't call Floyd "quite good". He has reaped the benefits of having Gates, Jackson and Sproles taking coverage from him, and still has only produced 750 yards in 6 seasons. He's 28 and isn't at the age where WR's usually break out. Naanee has good potential like a bunch of other players in the league. They are worth flyers in fantasy football..but they are unproven. At this point I don't see how SD can be excited about the WR's on their roster.
So Gates isn't getting paid and is being humiliated?
Don't want to speak for him, but I assume he's saying that Gates didn't "mess" with Smith while VJax is.
Actually Gates did "mess" with Smith a couple years back. He missed a game, he got paid and I don't recall much in the way of humiliation.The artificial drama generated by some of the posters (not you CB31) on this board is comical.
I remember that. And you're right, there does seem to be a lot of Shakespeare going on.
Serious question: have you watched many Chargers games and actually seen Floyd play much?His body and skills are similar to Jackson's. Of course he has benefitted from the presence of a lot of other good targets in the Chargers offense... but the flip side is that it has restricted his own targets. But what he has done with his limited targets has been pretty impressive IMO, and now he stands to get a lot more targets than he ever has.
- who cares? Cant wait to see what you say when Mcneil gets his deal.Exactly.If it's 20 mil guaranteed and a total of 35 mil over the 5 years, you're looking at an average of 7 mil per year over the 5 years. But if Gates is only productive another 3 years, he's going to get released when he declines and the non-guaranteed remainder of the contract won't be paid. So you're essentially paying 20 mil plus the base over those 3 years.Jason Wood said:
Apparently AJ isn't a big fan of Vincent Jackson.
The problem with Floyd has been that he's glass. That's the thing that worries me most about the Jackson situation. They're just one (decently probable) injury away from having to line up Naanee and Davis (also glass) as the starting wide outs with rookies behind them. That's not a good situation no matter how you slice it.
The most notable thing Jackson has over Floyd and Naanee is speed. Jackson definitely is a high end receiver. The point some of us are making is that the Charger offense will remain productive without him. Maybe they lose something off the top end, but they aren't going to go over a cliff because it's Naanee out there instead of Jackson.
Do you know what I'm talking about there? And Gr00vus, chill man. Seriously.
At the combine, Naanee ran a 4.41 and Jackson ran a 4.46.Floyd didn't attend the combine, but I think he ran a 4.44 at his pro day.They're all comparable in terms of speed. They all have good size, too.Floyd probably has the best hands of the bunch.Jackson is the most complete player. All three can be deep threats (as well as Buster Davis, who ran a 4.37), but Jackson has also become a very good possession receiver when he needs to be.
With what money?
I didn't realize asking you to clarify an erroneous statement == getting "unchilled." Maybe make more sense when you post next time? Seriously.
I haven't seen the combine speed translate into game speed for Naanee. Maybe it's just because he hasn't had enough opportunities. Floyd has flashes, but it seems like Jackson just plays faster.
