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Gibril Wilson (2 Viewers)

Rozelle

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:headbang:

Giants | Wilson working at free safetySat, 28 Jul 2007 22:59:22 -0700

Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports New York Giants S Gibril Wilson is listed as the No. 1 free safety on the team's depth chart.

Giants | Butler working as No. 1 strong safety

Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:58:32 -0700

Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports New York Giants S James Butler is listed as the No. 1 strong safety on the team's depth chart.

We saw Butler running with the 1s in mini-camp in a rotation with Wilson and Will Demps, so I assumed there was nothing to read into that. But I was just handed the first depth chart of the season, and Butler is listed as a strong safety with Wilson at free and Demps as the No. 2 free safety. Hmm.

LINK (2nd Blog)

Not too sure about this. Butler is an undrafted FA out of Georgia Tech (2005). Don't know much about him, read he plays soft, and is poor in coverage, but ...he has nice size (6-2 / 215) and good athletic ability. Definatley worth keeping an eye on.

 
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Not sure what to make of this.

On one hand, it's confusing that the Giants would move Wilson to a position where he'd traditionally have more coverage responsibility when the offseason rumors were that Wilson could lose his job at some point due to questionable coverage skill. Even more confusing to "bench" or rotate out their best coverage player, Will Demps. Both Butler and seventh round pick Michael Johnson are interesting SS prospects.

On the other hand, Jim Johnson often used Brian Dawkins in a playmaking role from the FS position -- cover, blitz, run support, etc -- and it's possible this is Steve Spagnuolo (LB coach under Johnson in recent years) putting Wilson in a similar position.

Ain't preseason fun?

 
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I did not know anything about Butler until I started digging...

He was a two-time finalist for the Jim Thorpe Award (top college defensive back). ESPN had rated Butler as one of the Top-25 players eligible for the '05 draft, until Butler ran a lousy 4.65/40 at the combine and ultimately went undrafted. Butler's "burst numbers" look great (40"+ vertical and 10'7" broad) and he has great size (6'2" 213lbs).

From what I read on the Giants message board, Demps' demotion is real and Wil even commented on the topic.

 
I did not know anything about Butler until I started digging...He was a two-time finalist for the Jim Thorpe Award (top college defensive back). ESPN had rated Butler as one of the Top-25 players eligible for the '05 draft, until Butler ran a lousy 4.65/40 at the combine and ultimately went undrafted. Butler's "burst numbers" look great (40"+ vertical and 10'7" broad) and he has great size (6'2" 213lbs).From what I read on the Giants message board, Demps' demotion is real and Wil even commented on the topic.
Can you post Demps' comments for us, WD? Anything that would give us a handle on why he was demoted?
 
link:

http://www.nj.com/sportsflash/giants/index...rylist=njgiants

Demps losing starting safety job to James Butler

7/28/2007, 6:11 p.m. EDT

By TOM CANAVAN

The Associated Press

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Will Demps apparently lost his starting free safety job to James Butler even before the New York Giants opened training camp at the University at Albany on Saturday.

Butler worked with first team safety Gibril Wilson, while Demps was paired with Michael Stone on the second unit.

Demps started all 16 games and the playoffs last season, recording a career-high 116 tackles and two interceptions in a season in which he was coming off major knee surgery.

"As a competitor and being a starter my whole career of course it is going to tick you off," Demps said. "But I have to sit back and compete and understand I am a team player, whatever they want. I am going to go out and compete. My track record speaks for itself. I am not going to complain. I am going to go out there and have fun because we are all teammates."

Butler, who appeared in 14 games last season mostly on special teams, tried to play down his promotion.

"It's just playing the game, trying to find the best players at positions," Butler said.

 
Looks like a real story, as WD reported, Demps sounds legitimately pissed.

Those of you who can pick up Butler cheaply and have room should. Plenty of value to be had from an in-the-box strong safety who'll get some man coverage responsibility like Michael Lewis did in Philadelphia. No risk here, as he's an easy dump if this is a 'ploy to motivate' Tatum Bell Demps.

 
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How would a transition to FS affect Gibril's numbers? :confused:

Wanted to start him next to Sean Jones in my dynasty team. :unsure:

 
w/ last yrs total... Wilson's and Demps' #s weren't that different. I guess this means that this means less sack opps... which sucks for us G Wilson owners. I have a very high WW priority; not sure if I want to use it on Butler.

I hear ya Chainz.. my 2 out of 3 starting DBs were Rhodes and G Wilson w/ my 3rd going to be M Lewis or Considine. This news does hurt... but only a little IMO.

 
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How would a transition to FS affect Gibril's numbers? :confused: Wanted to start him next to Sean Jones in my dynasty team. :unsure:
A move to free safety would definitely hurt his tackle numbers. I question his coverage skills being good enough to play free safety. That is not his strongest aspect. He seems to be a much better fit as a strong safety. For now, I'm in the camp of "I'll believe it when I see it".
 
Lets see ... Isn't Wilson due to become a FA next year? Maybe the Giants are wanting to get a look at Butler to see if he can be an adequate replacement should they let Wilson walk? I think its more likely something with Demps, either Coach Coughlin trying to motivate, or he's in the dog house.

I'm going to set up camp with AB on this.

 
Horrible news!!! I hope this is just a camp thing to motivate people for season or to get a look at Butler. Wilson needs to be at SS. Doesn't make since to move him to FS. It weakens their defense to do that as Wilson is better fit in SS role.

 
Lets see ... Isn't Wilson due to become a FA next year? Maybe the Giants are wanting to get a look at Butler to see if he can be an adequate replacement should they let Wilson walk?
This is exactly what I was worried about with Wilson, a similar situation to Michael Lewis where the team starts to think about other plans at his position. Michael Johnson, a late round rookie, could also get in the picture as the year goes on. The Giants could have made Wilson part of their long term plans this offseason, and they didnt.
 
Lets see ... Isn't Wilson due to become a FA next year? Maybe the Giants are wanting to get a look at Butler to see if he can be an adequate replacement should they let Wilson walk?
This is exactly what I was worried about with Wilson, a similar situation to Michael Lewis where the team starts to think about other plans at his position. Michael Johnson, a late round rookie, could also get in the picture as the year goes on. The Giants could have made Wilson part of their long term plans this offseason, and they didnt.
Hey Bloom .... Did the the Giants even talk contract extension with Wilson?
 
Lets see ... Isn't Wilson due to become a FA next year? Maybe the Giants are wanting to get a look at Butler to see if he can be an adequate replacement should they let Wilson walk?
This is exactly what I was worried about with Wilson, a similar situation to Michael Lewis where the team starts to think about other plans at his position. Michael Johnson, a late round rookie, could also get in the picture as the year goes on. The Giants could have made Wilson part of their long term plans this offseason, and they didnt.
Hey Bloom .... Did the the Giants even talk contract extension with Wilson?
I dont think so, I think they just offered a 2nd round tender.
 
Lets see ... Isn't Wilson due to become a FA next year? Maybe the Giants are wanting to get a look at Butler to see if he can be an adequate replacement should they let Wilson walk?
This is exactly what I was worried about with Wilson, a similar situation to Michael Lewis where the team starts to think about other plans at his position. Michael Johnson, a late round rookie, could also get in the picture as the year goes on. The Giants could have made Wilson part of their long term plans this offseason, and they didnt.
Hey Bloom .... Did the the Giants even talk contract extension with Wilson?
I dont think so, I think they just offered a 2nd round tender.
Yep ... thats right, I remember now.
 
not really liking this news. Then again, probably shouldn't be relying on a safety with suspect coverage skills anyway. Maybe I'll dump him for Demorrio Williams.

 
So, the question begs, Where does James Butler rank as far as safeties with newly acquired potential for the upcoming season?

Where does Butler rank in relation to Gerald Sensabaugh?

It seems to me, looking back at the past two years that the safeties in NY are producing better number than the jaguars who seem to swap positions depending on the package called. - ie not a true SS and FS.

How close am I Jene?

 
So, the question begs, Where does James Butler rank as far as safeties with newly acquired potential for the upcoming season?Where does Butler rank in relation to Gerald Sensabaugh?
IF Butler holds on to the starting job at SS, I would rank him right around Sensabaugh in the DB4-DB5 range, but for now Sensabaugh is a safer pick because he's almost guaranteed to hold on to his starting job.
 
So, the question begs, Where does James Butler rank as far as safeties with newly acquired potential for the upcoming season?Where does Butler rank in relation to Gerald Sensabaugh?
IF Butler holds on to the starting job at SS, I would rank him right around Sensabaugh in the DB4-DB5 range, but for now Sensabaugh is a safer pick because he's almost guaranteed to hold on to his starting job.
Thanks Bloom!Either way Butler or Sensabaugh is #3 behind A.Wilson and T.Polamalu in a DB / S Separated league.
 
So, the question begs, Where does James Butler rank as far as safeties with newly acquired potential for the upcoming season?Where does Butler rank in relation to Gerald Sensabaugh?
IF Butler holds on to the starting job at SS, I would rank him right around Sensabaugh in the DB4-DB5 range, but for now Sensabaugh is a safer pick because he's almost guaranteed to hold on to his starting job.
I agree with this given the "for now" caveat Sig used. If Butler makes it deep into camp as the SS, I think he has more stable DB2-3 value. I've never seen him play, if he is as active and successful in run support as Wilson, his value could be better.And I agree with your assessment of the Jax and NYG schemes right now. Every player is different, but the Jags have had a number of guys in the SS role at different points and none have had much value. Although it's a slightly more aggressive 4-3, the Giants have had good SS value with the current supporting cast and Michael Lewis was productive in the scheme the Giants will use.
 
So, the question begs, Where does James Butler rank as far as safeties with newly acquired potential for the upcoming season?Where does Butler rank in relation to Gerald Sensabaugh?
IF Butler holds on to the starting job at SS, I would rank him right around Sensabaugh in the DB4-DB5 range, but for now Sensabaugh is a safer pick because he's almost guaranteed to hold on to his starting job.
I agree with this given the "for now" caveat Sig used. If Butler makes it deep into camp as the SS, I think he has more stable DB2-3 value. I've never seen him play, if he is as active and successful in run support as Wilson, his value could be better.And I agree with your assessment of the Jax and NYG schemes right now. Every player is different, but the Jags have had a number of guys in the SS role at different points and none have had much value. Although it's a slightly more aggressive 4-3, the Giants have had good SS value with the current supporting cast and Michael Lewis was productive in the scheme the Giants will use.
The more I think about it...I am starting to lean toward taking a gamble on Butler and dropping Sensabaugh. I already have A. Wilson and T. Polamalu starting and there are guys like D.Darius, D.Grant, J.Page & Y.Bell. Like I said before this is a league where we separate CBs and Ss.
 
So, the question begs, Where does James Butler rank as far as safeties with newly acquired potential for the upcoming season?Where does Butler rank in relation to Gerald Sensabaugh?
IF Butler holds on to the starting job at SS, I would rank him right around Sensabaugh in the DB4-DB5 range, but for now Sensabaugh is a safer pick because he's almost guaranteed to hold on to his starting job.
I agree with this given the "for now" caveat Sig used. If Butler makes it deep into camp as the SS, I think he has more stable DB2-3 value. I've never seen him play, if he is as active and successful in run support as Wilson, his value could be better.And I agree with your assessment of the Jax and NYG schemes right now. Every player is different, but the Jags have had a number of guys in the SS role at different points and none have had much value. Although it's a slightly more aggressive 4-3, the Giants have had good SS value with the current supporting cast and Michael Lewis was productive in the scheme the Giants will use.
The more I think about it...I am starting to lean toward taking a gamble on Butler and dropping Sensabaugh. I already have A. Wilson and T. Polamalu starting and there are guys like D.Darius, D.Grant, J.Page & Y.Bell. Like I said before this is a league where we separate CBs and Ss.
if guys like grant, page, and bell are on your WW, then you can definitely afford to pick up the guy who has more upside, even if his job is less secure. I would probably pick up Grant or Page before Butler.
 
:shrug:

Giants | Wilson working at free safetySat, 28 Jul 2007 22:59:22 -0700

Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports New York Giants S Gibril Wilson is listed as the No. 1 free safety on the team's depth chart.

Giants | Butler working as No. 1 strong safety

Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:58:32 -0700

Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports New York Giants S James Butler is listed as the No. 1 strong safety on the team's depth chart.

We saw Butler running with the 1s in mini-camp in a rotation with Wilson and Will Demps, so I assumed there was nothing to read into that. But I was just handed the first depth chart of the season, and Butler is listed as a strong safety with Wilson at free and Demps as the No. 2 free safety. Hmm.

LINK (2nd Blog)

Not too sure about this. Butler is an undrafted FA out of Georgia Tech (2005). Don't know much about him, read he plays soft, and is poor in coverage, but ...he has nice size (6-2 / 215) and good athletic ability. Definatley worth keeping an eye on.
not sure what site Staple was looking at but on the giants web site they have butler listed as a FS(starter) and Wilson at SS(Starter)but it does bear watching

 
:banned:

Giants | Wilson working at free safetySat, 28 Jul 2007 22:59:22 -0700

Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports New York Giants S Gibril Wilson is listed as the No. 1 free safety on the team's depth chart.

Giants | Butler working as No. 1 strong safety

Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:58:32 -0700

Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports New York Giants S James Butler is listed as the No. 1 strong safety on the team's depth chart.

We saw Butler running with the 1s in mini-camp in a rotation with Wilson and Will Demps, so I assumed there was nothing to read into that. But I was just handed the first depth chart of the season, and Butler is listed as a strong safety with Wilson at free and Demps as the No. 2 free safety. Hmm.

LINK (2nd Blog)

Not too sure about this. Butler is an undrafted FA out of Georgia Tech (2005). Don't know much about him, read he plays soft, and is poor in coverage, but ...he has nice size (6-2 / 215) and good athletic ability. Definatley worth keeping an eye on.
not sure what site Staple was looking at but on the giants web site they have butler listed as a FS(starter) and Wilson at SS(Starter)but it does bear watching
He said he was handed a depth chart after practice
 
From the first link that Rozelle provided:

Wilson also has a new role in the defense. Instead of being stuck in the box, involved in the run support, he will roam more like a center fielder. It's similar to the spot Pro Bowl perennial Brian Dawkins plays with the Eagles.

Wilson doesn't want to compare himself to Dawkins, but concedes he will be afforded many of the freelance opportunities the Philly star has received. That should result in more interceptions for the man who had three in just seven starts as a rookie, and only four in 31 starts since.

This was my first instinct when this thread was posted. At least statistically, Wilson has had some success in coverage -- seven INT and 20 PD in 39 games -- despite the perceived inconsistency. And Wilson was given a second round tender, which I still believe to be a sign that the team hadn't completely soured on him.

I wondered if this was more about putting Wilson in the playmaking position and less about benching Demps. I'm sure there are many variables here and Wilson will have to produce in this role to stay with the team next year. But this is reassuring for now.

It also puts Wilson in the Dawkins/Reed/Hamlin category of talented players who might approach 70-75 solos but are going to have to put up some big plays to be consistent players. Dawkins has been a top twenty player in this system every year, but was buoyed somewhat by the PHI PD effect. Wilson should be fine -- add six sacks and 8 FF/FR to the coverage stats above -- and may still be a top five player if Butler isn't a consistent tackler.

 
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From the first link that Rozelle provided:

Wilson also has a new role in the defense. Instead of being stuck in the box, involved in the run support, he will roam more like a center fielder. It's similar to the spot Pro Bowl perennial Brian Dawkins plays with the Eagles.

Wilson doesn't want to compare himself to Dawkins, but concedes he will be afforded many of the freelance opportunities the Philly star has received. That should result in more interceptions for the man who had three in just seven starts as a rookie, and only four in 31 starts since.

This was my first instinct when this thread was posted. At least statistically, Wilson has had some success in coverage -- seven INT and 20 PD in 39 games -- despite the perceived inconsistency. And Wilson was given a second round tender, which I still believe to be a sign that the team hadn't completely soured on him.

I wondered if this was more about putting Wilson in the playmaking position and less about benching Demps. I'm sure there are many variables here and Wilson will have to produce in this role to stay with the team next year. But this is reassuring for now.

It also puts Wilson in the Dawkins/Reed/Hamlin category of talented players who might approach 70-75 solos but are going to have to put up some big plays to be consistent players. Dawkins has been a top twenty player in this system every year, but was buoyed somewhat by the PHI PD effect. Wilson should be fine -- add six sacks and 8 FF/FR to the coverage stats above -- and may still be a top five player if Butler isn't a consistent tackler.
I think so, Jean ... he may not be as consistent as he's been in the past, but in the end , the numbers (FF points) should be close to the same.
 
A couple more articles ...

Giants' Wilson flips for new-look 'D'

Understated Safety Slips Into a Starting Role

Anyone been to Giants camp and seen Butler?
can someone paste the 2nd article?
ALBANY, Aug. 3 — It was just about a year ago when James Butler, a little-known Giants safety, was cleared to practice after surgery on his kidney. He reluctantly met with reporters, and short stories were written about the surgery he had to unclog a blockage, the extra padding he would wear under his uniform and the extra fluids doctors told him to consume. And Butler, a backup, was barely heard from again.

But that changed with the first practice of this season’s training camp. In their most surprising depth-chart maneuver, the Giants handed Butler a starting job and demoted Will Demps, a high-priced free agent signed in 2006.

Butler, befitting his personality, remained reluctant to talk about it.

“We’ll see, man,” said Butler, who said he felt no effects from last year’s kidney ailment. “We ain’t even had one game yet. We ain’t started a preseason game yet. So just be quiet and play the game.”

Staying quiet seems to be in his nature, but the Giants are hoping to hear more noise from their safeties this season. On paper last year, Demps and Gibril Wilson looked like a fear-inducing tandem. In reality, they were the ones playing scared — mostly of making mistakes in an increasingly complex scheme.

Under the restructured defense of the new coordinator Steve Spagnuolo, who arrived after years as the linebackers coach in Philadelphia, Wilson hopes to rediscover the instinctive play that marked his rookie year (2004), when he had 3 interceptions and 49 tackles in seven starts.

“My mentality my rookie year was, ‘See ball, go get ball,’ ” Wilson said.

“It wasn’t complicated. There was nothing tricky to it. It was just go get the ball. I think these past couple years, I haven’t done that as much as I would like to. This year, with a brand-new defense, I’m going to be the way I know how to play: fast, and if I see the ball, go get the ball.”

The Giants moved Wilson to free safety from strong safety, and inserted Butler at strong safety. The differences in the positions are not always obvious, but the free safety generally spends more time roaming the middle of the field and less time near the line of scrimmage playing the run or defending the tight end. Giants Coach Tom Coughlin said that safeties must be able to play both positions.

What makes the fight for a starting safety spot especially intriguing is that, unlike a third cornerback, a backup safety rarely plays, even on passing downs. Last season, Demps started every game and had 116 tackles. Butler started none, became a leader on special teams, and had only 11 tackles on defense.

Butler, a former high school triple-jump state champion in Georgia, played at Georgia Tech but was undrafted in 2005. At 6 feet 3 inches and 215 pounds, he is taller and rangier than the Giants’ other safeties.

“He is obviously a big man who is fast and covers a lot of ground,” Coughlin said. “He is smart, and very, very focused. Having a chance after fighting his way through a year in which he was ill, and then to have an opportunity to come back and be healthy and have a chance to play, I think all these things are falling into place for him.”

That sounded great to Butler, who listens more than he speaks. He is the youngest of six children from tiny Climax, Ga. (“It’s nine miles from Bainbridge,” he explained, helpfully), home of the not-so-famous Swine Time Festival, a celebration of all things pig, held annually on the Saturday after Thanksgiving.

“A lot of people from a lot of places come down for that,” Butler said.

His eyes widened when the talk moved away from his kidney and his roster spot and toward his mother’s cooking (macaroni and cheese, collard greens and sweet-potato pie are his favorites) and the slow-paced lifestyle of home.

A few moments later, with a smile and a thank you, Butler was gone, destined to be seen more than heard.

 
So is it the consensus that with Wilson now at FS, his value takes a decent little hit in IDP leagues?
Yes and no. How's that for a straight answer? :lmao:The devil is in the details here. Wilson is likely to take a hit in the tackle columns if he's not used in the box as much, but the comp here is Brian Dawkins, who plays the same role in the scheme Steve Spagnuolo is bringing over from Philadelphia. Wilson has been an above-average big play guy in the past and should produce similar stats. If the Giants don't rotate the three safeties in such a way that Wilson sits a few series a game, Wilson should still have low level DB1 value. I think the move is more a nod to Wilson's big play capability than a knock against his overall play and that he'll remain a safe play. Better in big play systems than tackle heavy systems, but safe in both.
 
What is the latest on Demps vs Butler at SS?

I know Demps is hurt, but will he get his spot back when he is good to go?

 

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