Give Ronnie Brown the Damn Ball! (1 Viewer)

[gregjcross]

I can save you a whole lot of time. The Miami OL is extremely bad for the second season. Nobody is giong to be gaining respectable rush yards until they improve Brown might get a good couple of catches to butress his overall yardage stats or the Jets D front might be bad enough for the Phin's OL to be average against them and boost the RB production.

No one has demonstrated in this thread that Brown has some special skill of becoming a better back after he passes a magical threshold of carries. I made a fairly humble suggestion upthread that the stats in the original post carried a selection bias, and that someone (like the original poster perhaps) try comparing those carry breakdowns within the same game. No one has taken the bait other than to call me a Brown hater so what the hell, I did a quick study myself.I've seen this threshold number offered in a few different versions here: 11, 15, 20, 2nd half . . . I chose 15 based on the most recent post. It sounds like a fair number. I figured the numbers using play-by-play data from nfl.com for 2006. My 15+ total comes out 4 yards better than yahoo's, but I assume no one in this thread minds that. Here are the totals for Brown in games in which he carried the ball more than 15 times:carry 1-15: 105-500 4.8carry 16+: 53-227 4.3It seems to me that if the premise of the original post was correct and all Cameron needs to do is give Ronnie Brown the Damn Ball, then the ypc would increase when Brown reaches 15 carries in a game, rather than decline by half a yard.I argue that the selection bias in the carry breakdown statistics shifts the burden of all of Brown's bad games solely on the low-carry tier, since it is in those games that Brown's ineffectiveness lowers his total number of carries.

 

[Diamond One]

As a dolphin fan, I think Brown has two things working against him.1) His O line is terrible. It is one thing to look at LT and LJ, but the truth is Brown will muscle out a 3 - 4 yard play and then get hit for a 2 yard loss, or get hit just as he gets the ball and make it back to the LOS. That ain't the running back, folks.2) He doesn't get enough carries at the moment to bust a big one, and he is being taken out when he is the best receiver we have at RB.Cam wants to light a fire under brown???? What about mister every other catch Chambers? I really believe that Ronnie can be a force in this league. Even RW had some trouble behind some bad Miami O lines, and his first 10-15 carries were usually crap. It was the last 10 - 15 carries that gave him his numbers. Ronnie doesn't get them.IMHO

Concur. Miami (on offense) has two problems that need to be fixed: The O-line and the BLOODY MANAGEMENT . The first one can't be fixed until the second is. It's gonna be a long season for the 'Phins.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Hudson Hauck is widely regarded as a great offensive line coach from what I've read through the years. Is he overrated or is it just a matter of personnel? How long has he been in Miami and what does the offensive line have to show for it? I guess the general idea is that he can make the offensive line better through coaching, but if they aren't getting better why aren't they making moves. Who have they drafted, signed, or traded for? What is the feel for the offensive line in Miami, do they think the future is bright or is just a patched up job they hope to somehow magically fix?

I haven't seen Miami play in a long time, so I really don't know how good all their players are, but just looking at their roster what do they have... They have 2 aging studs in the front 7, and what appears to be an awful secondary on defense. They may have some young talent in there that I am just not aware of how good they actually are. Crowder? Offensively the QB situation is what it is, you could do a lot worse than Trent Green. I use to think that Chambers was a future star, he's got great hands and good speed. Is Vernon Carey good or a bust? Is there any other young talent on the offensive line? What young talent do they have overall really? I like Ginn, but was he a smart pick for them? I'm not saying that they needed Quinn, but they could have gone in plenty of other directions with all the weak spots they have. Now they have to pay a Ginn money and he's in no position to be a difference maker on such a weak team. I would think Ronnie Brown is their best young talent, but what is their plan? Bring in Chatman for a RBBC? What does Cameron see in this guy that doesn't indicate scrub?

In regards to some of the earlier posts, you can manipulate stats in lots of ways but it doesn't take into account how the actual games are going and why he is or isn't getting carries. It's simple to point to numbers and say all they need to do is give him the ball more, but that changes the game. If you start giving him more carries it changes the way the defense plays, and a lot of times the defense is going to take away the run and make you pass.

It's just not so simple as run the ball more. If you keep seeing 8 or 9 in the box, you can't just keep running the ball without some adjustments unless you are just dominating. You have to have balance on offense and when you don't the defense dictates what the offense needs to do to a much greater extent. Teams try to take away strengths. It shouldn't be surprising that his late game numbers are better than his early game numbers really. Early in games it is usually harder to run the ball, especially if your running game is average overall and your passing attack isn't anything special either. Later in games when scores dictates strategy and you are trailing, defenses will give you the run before they give up the deep ball. If you are leading in the game it's highly likely that you were able to run the ball throughout the game, and if you are trailing it's more likely that you couldn't run the ball well. The difference is .8 ypg from 1st to 4th quarters, but what significance does that number really have? What is the league average for other running backs? Is possible that he's actually on the low end of that? I don't know, I'm just saying you need much more statistical work and analysis to come to conclusions like that.

If you didn't run the ball well early it's not so simple as just comeback to it later on, for the most part you have to establish the running game and dictate the game to the defense. If you can't do so it becomes a game of field position and if you fall behind you are going to have to start passing eventually and the other team knows it so they adjust to it which means they will give you some easy runs, which taint the stats when you look at them in certain ways. If you ran well on them earlier I'm sure they had more defenders in the box earlier, that's just a basic adjustment. So if you have success throughout the game running the ball it's more likely that you will continue to do so even despite the fact that the defense knows you are trying to run out the clock and stacks the box. It also gives the offense more comfort and confidence if they have had success running the ball and it opens up other things as well. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but to make an assumption that more carries will equal more success without considering how it changes the game is not accurate. The Dolphins don't have the smashmouth line or shutdown defense to play that style of football in reality. They may try to play that way, but they won't have much success doing it against good teams because they just aren't that good.

You can give him more carries and it will mean better stats for him fantasy wise perhaps, but it's not going to translate to more wins. He may get stronger as the game goes on, that's fair to say as well. However, and some other posters touched on this, at the end of the game you are going to need some playmakers. Who are the playmakers for Miami exactly? You can't rely on Jason Taylor picking one to the house all the time. I just don't see that assassin in Ronnie Brown, there's a reason he's always been a committee back. Granted Caddy and Ricky are solid players, but now the trend continues and it's with Jesse Chatman c'mon something isn't right. So stop comparing him to Sanders, Faulk, & Tomlinson please. It has much less to do with offensive line and more to do with heart and the desire to maximize talent.

One more thing... LJ is not great. He may HAVE BEEN a great "fantasy" back due in large part to his great offensive line, but those days are gone. Fantasy sports are not a true measure of how good players are in real sports.

 

[Traders2001]

Hudson Hauck is widely regarded as a great offensive line coach from what I've read through the years. Is he overrated or is it just a matter of personnel? How long has he been in Miami and what does the offensive line have to show for it? I guess the general idea is that he can make the offensive line better through coaching, but if they aren't getting better why aren't they making moves. Who have they drafted, signed, or traded for? What is the feel for the offensive line in Miami, do they think the future is bright or is just a patched up job they hope to somehow magically fix? I haven't seen Miami play in a long time, so I really don't know how good all their players are, but just looking at their roster what do they have... They have 2 aging studs in the front 7, and what appears to be an awful secondary on defense. They may have some young talent in there that I am just not aware of how good they actually are. Crowder? Offensively the QB situation is what it is, you could do a lot worse than Trent Green. I use to think that Chambers was a future star, he's got great hands and good speed. Is Vernon Carey good or a bust? Is there any other young talent on the offensive line? What young talent do they have overall really? I like Ginn, but was he a smart pick for them? I'm not saying that they needed Quinn, but they could have gone in plenty of other directions with all the weak spots they have. Now they have to pay a Ginn money and he's in no position to be a difference maker on such a weak team. I would think Ronnie Brown is their best young talent, but what is their plan? Bring in Chatman for a RBBC? What does Cameron see in this guy that doesn't indicate scrub?In regards to some of the earlier posts, you can manipulate stats in lots of ways but it doesn't take into account how the actual games are going and why he is or isn't getting carries. It's simple to point to numbers and say all they need to do is give him the ball more, but that changes the game. If you start giving him more carries it changes the way the defense plays, and a lot of times the defense is going to take away the run and make you pass. It's just not so simple as run the ball more. If you keep seeing 8 or 9 in the box, you can't just keep running the ball without some adjustments unless you are just dominating. You have to have balance on offense and when you don't the defense dictates what the offense needs to do to a much greater extent. Teams try to take away strengths. It shouldn't be surprising that his late game numbers are better than his early game numbers really. Early in games it is usually harder to run the ball, especially if your running game is average overall and your passing attack isn't anything special either. Later in games when scores dictates strategy and you are trailing, defenses will give you the run before they give up the deep ball. If you are leading in the game it's highly likely that you were able to run the ball throughout the game, and if you are trailing it's more likely that you couldn't run the ball well. The difference is .8 ypg from 1st to 4th quarters, but what significance does that number really have? What is the league average for other running backs? Is possible that he's actually on the low end of that? I don't know, I'm just saying you need much more statistical work and analysis to come to conclusions like that.If you didn't run the ball well early it's not so simple as just comeback to it later on, for the most part you have to establish the running game and dictate the game to the defense. If you can't do so it becomes a game of field position and if you fall behind you are going to have to start passing eventually and the other team knows it so they adjust to it which means they will give you some easy runs, which taint the stats when you look at them in certain ways. If you ran well on them earlier I'm sure they had more defenders in the box earlier, that's just a basic adjustment. So if you have success throughout the game running the ball it's more likely that you will continue to do so even despite the fact that the defense knows you are trying to run out the clock and stacks the box. It also gives the offense more comfort and confidence if they have had success running the ball and it opens up other things as well. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but to make an assumption that more carries will equal more success without considering how it changes the game is not accurate. The Dolphins don't have the smashmouth line or shutdown defense to play that style of football in reality. They may try to play that way, but they won't have much success doing it against good teams because they just aren't that good. You can give him more carries and it will mean better stats for him fantasy wise perhaps, but it's not going to translate to more wins. He may get stronger as the game goes on, that's fair to say as well. However, and some other posters touched on this, at the end of the game you are going to need some playmakers. Who are the playmakers for Miami exactly? You can't rely on Jason Taylor picking one to the house all the time. I just don't see that assassin in Ronnie Brown, there's a reason he's always been a committee back. Granted Caddy and Ricky are solid players, but now the trend continues and it's with Jesse Chatman c'mon something isn't right. So stop comparing him to Sanders, Faulk, & Tomlinson please. It has much less to do with offensive line and more to do with heart and the desire to maximize talent.One more thing... LJ is not great. He may HAVE BEEN a great "fantasy" back due in large part to his great offensive line, but those days are gone. Fantasy sports are not a true measure of how good players are in real sports.

Nicely written but total BS , except the last two lines.

 

[Craig]

Brown rides my bench this week. I can start 3 , Parker, Mc Gahee & Portis seem like better options.

 

[Todem]

Ronnie Brown will be given every chance to carry the load this afternoon against the Jets.

Let's see what he does today against a very suspect defense.

Meantime he has not had a significant impact other than the game we upset the Bears in Chicago. And one great 60 yard TD run against the Cheifs his rookie season. I have watched every carry...he is not a good NFL RB. Plain and simple.

NO IMPACT.

 

[cmv5]

Ronnie Brown will be given every chance to carry the load this afternoon against the Jets.Let's see what he does today against a very suspect defense.Meantime he has not had a significant impact other than the game we upset the Bears in Chicago. And one great 60 yard TD run against the Cheifs his rookie season. I have watched every carry...he is not a good NFL RB. Plain and simple.NO IMPACT.

Ronnie Brown may very well have no impact this week but I don't blame him directly for that. I believe the O-line is crap. You suggested earlier that everyone, "stop reading stats and see him for what he is" but I am sorry, I don't see anyone going to work for any nfl scouting teams so I am going to use stats as a way to make an impartial judgement about a player. I look at Ronnie Brown's situation as very similar to Lamont Jordan's situation from last year, all the warning signs were present in the preseason, ignored o-line and ineffective offense. In 2005 and 2006, Jordan averaged 3.8 ypc and only 6 runs of 20 + in both seasons combined (Over the same period of time Ronnie "no burst" Brown has had 14 runs of 20+ yards). This year, the o-line and offense in Oakland is much improved and Lamont Jordan who could just as easily be called a "no impact" player is averaging 5.7 ypc. Barring injury or Dominic Rhodes, he should make an impact. When I see Miami fans putting the brunt of the blame at Ronnie Brown's feet I see Cam Cameron's posturing on the running back situation as doing its job. He has taken the focus off of the offense (6 turnovers) and the offensive line (which pretty much went unaddressed in the offseason) and made Brown the scapegoat. Also, for the hundredth time for all the people that say Ronnie is a once a, always a committee back. What does that mean? If you look at his heart is it half the size of a normal running back? Does he gasp for air after 5 carries? Is it because he has been injured twice?

 

[mulliganm]

As a dolphin fan, I think Brown has two things working against him.

1) His O line is terrible. It is one thing to look at LT and LJ, but the truth is Brown will muscle out a 3 - 4 yard play and then get hit for a 2 yard loss, or get hit just as he gets the ball and make it back to the LOS. That ain't the running back, folks.

2) He doesn't get enough carries at the moment to bust a big one, and he is being taken out when he is the best receiver we have at RB.

Cam wants to light a fire under brown???? What about mister every other catch Chambers? I really believe that Ronnie can be a force in this league. Even RW had some trouble behind some bad Miami O lines, and his first 10-15 carries were usually crap. It was the last 10 - 15 carries that gave him his numbers. Ronnie doesn't get them.

IMHO

I have owned Brown since drafting him before his rookie year and as a result have watched many Dolphins games. It is unbelievable the number of defenders in the backfield on some of his carries. It seems if he gets a good run on 1st down, they'll give it back to him the next play and there will be 3 guys waiting for him...

 

[Gatorman]

As a dolphin fan, I think Brown has two things working against him.

1) His O line is terrible. It is one thing to look at LT and LJ, but the truth is Brown will muscle out a 3 - 4 yard play and then get hit for a 2 yard loss, or get hit just as he gets the ball and make it back to the LOS. That ain't the running back, folks.

2) He doesn't get enough carries at the moment to bust a big one, and he is being taken out when he is the best receiver we have at RB.

Cam wants to light a fire under brown???? What about mister every other catch Chambers? I really believe that Ronnie can be a force in this league. Even RW had some trouble behind some bad Miami O lines, and his first 10-15 carries were usually crap. It was the last 10 - 15 carries that gave him his numbers. Ronnie doesn't get them.

IMHO

I have owned Brown since drafting him before his rookie year and as a result have watched many Dolphins games. It is unbelievable the number of defenders in the backfield on some of his carries. It seems if he gets a good run on 1st down, they'll give it back to him the next play and there will be 3 guys waiting for him...

Exactly.The truth is that Miami has a long road ahead to be back to a decent team. Saban was no better than wanstache in the Evalutaion of talent department. Our last 10 drafts in the first and second round have been horrid. Bottom line that is why we suck. The fact that we are not worse than we are is b/c we hit on guys like Thomas and Taylor in the later rounds.

Even in drafts where we have had a high pick, there have been no good O linemen or the o linemen went early (or we flat out missed). Ginn may be the best pick we have had in the first round in the past 10 years THAT IS HOW BAD IT HAS BEEN.

The year we took ronnie at #2 D'Brickeshaw decides to stay in school. This year, BOTH Thomas and Jones are gone by our pick. Looking at HERD's Mock for next year, the tackle from Michigan goes 3 to the bills (with the dolphins having the #4).

Houck is known for building o lines, and usually the line looks better in the second half of the year vs. the first. However, if every year we have to re tool the line and have a crappy line from week 1 - 6 how much are we every going to contend.

 

[mulliganm]

Brown's looked pretty good today...

 

[Football Jones]

yes, he is...the Chatman thing was a joke...Brown isn't going to set the world on fire because of his situation, but nobody can tell me he's a bum...props to the original poster...ALL HE NEEDS IS THE DAMN BALL!!!

 

[az_prof]

Can we all agree that Cam was an idiot and now we are seeing what Brown can do?

 

[Lash]

and another

 

[gregjcross]

and another

Ronnie will still frustrate many Fantasy owners this season with the inconsistent situationIm glad he is in my line up today

 

[pinda]

wow Ronnie brown sucks, 100 yards rushing, 100 receiving, 3 td's...................he's horrible...

 

[J R]

Can we all agree that Cam was an idiot and now we are seeing what Brown can do?

uh, why, exactly? this week is right in line with Brown's 2006 season, as was his first 2 games.i would think instead people would be happy that even in games where brown hasn't been able to do much on the ground cameron has used him well in the passing game.but, sure, a bunch of random guys on the internet figured out the secret to winning games in the nfl is running the ball. if only cam cameron would stumble into the self-proclaimed shark pool, he might learn something.

 

[J R]

I think what you're looking for from Cameron if you're a Dolphins fan or a Ronnie Brown dynasty owner is that Cameron can upgrade the rest of the offense enough that teams can't just focus on Brown and shut him down without paying in other areas. So you're judging Cameron based on progress in other areas - like seeing what he can do with the passing game, and how he uses Booker and Ginn - rather than looking up the number of carries Brown gets in any given game.

 

[az_prof]

Can we all agree that Cam was an idiot and now we are seeing what Brown can do?

uh, why, exactly? this week is right in line with Brown's 2006 season, as was his first 2 games.i would think instead people would be happy that even in games where brown hasn't been able to do much on the ground cameron has used him well in the passing game.but, sure, a bunch of random guys on the internet figured out the secret to winning games in the nfl is running the ball. if only cam cameron would stumble into the self-proclaimed shark pool, he might learn something.

1) You don't have a quality back split time with a guy who sat out the NFl the past two years and has never done anything.2) Big backs get better the more they are used.3) Ronnie can catch the ball well; Cam hasn't taken advantage of that until this game.4) Cam has been pretty much negative about Brown and hasn't given him a chance until today; maybe if he had done so earlier the Finns would have won a game. They came close today.

 

[Balco]

Can we all agree that Cam was an idiot and now we are seeing what Brown can do?

uh, why, exactly? this week is right in line with Brown's 2006 season, as was his first 2 games.i would think instead people would be happy that even in games where brown hasn't been able to do much on the ground cameron has used him well in the passing game.but, sure, a bunch of random guys on the internet figured out the secret to winning games in the nfl is running the ball. if only cam cameron would stumble into the self-proclaimed shark pool, he might learn something.

1) You don't have a quality back split time with a guy who sat out the NFl the past two years and has never done anything.2) Big backs get better the more they are used.3) Ronnie can catch the ball well; Cam hasn't taken advantage of that until this game.4) Cam has been pretty much negative about Brown and hasn't given him a chance until today; maybe if he had done so earlier the Finns would have won a game. They came close today.

I hope Cameron has learned his lesson. I still cannot believe he really though Chatman should be splitting carries with Brown. Ridiculous. Brown is a solid back, who can catch the ball.

 

[J R]

Can we all agree that Cam was an idiot and now we are seeing what Brown can do?

uh, why, exactly? this week is right in line with Brown's 2006 season, as was his first 2 games.i would think instead people would be happy that even in games where brown hasn't been able to do much on the ground cameron has used him well in the passing game.but, sure, a bunch of random guys on the internet figured out the secret to winning games in the nfl is running the ball. if only cam cameron would stumble into the self-proclaimed shark pool, he might learn something.

1) You don't have a quality back split time with a guy who sat out the NFl the past two years and has never done anything.2) Big backs get better the more they are used.3) Ronnie can catch the ball well; Cam hasn't taken advantage of that until this game.4) Cam has been pretty much negative about Brown and hasn't given him a chance until today; maybe if he had done so earlier the Finns would have won a game. They came close today.

#2 isn't true with Brown, or at least as not been demonstrated on the field. as i showed above, brown doesn't magically get better the more he's used. in games where he got more than 15 carries last year, his ypc dropped 0.5 after carry 15. in games where he starts off well, he continues to do well. in fact that's a good description of his 2 games against the jets last year.#3 isn't true as well. brown averaged 38 yds receiving in his 1st 2 games. he averaged 21 in 2006. and of course once we roll in today's stats, brown's on pace for a huge year receiving.and i'd argue y'all are making way too much out of 1 and 4, which are pretty speculative and for which you have no evidence they have affected anything on the field.

 

[fatness]

Can we all agree that Cam was an idiot and now we are seeing what Brown can do?

Those of us with any sense can, yes.

 

[az_prof]

Finns are 6-3 in games where Brown gets the ball more than 20 times rushing.They are 7-15 in games when he doesn't.You can slice it and dice it however you want, but the bottom line is very clear: the Finns have a better chance to win when Ronnie is heavily involved in the offense. They didn't win today, largely because of Green INT in the third quarter when they got away from the run again, despite having success with it.Not sure what you are saying: are you saying the team has a better chance to win today if Chatman replaces Brown or splits half the carries and receptions? Are you saying Brown is no good and this was just a lucky game?

Can we all agree that Cam was an idiot and now we are seeing what Brown can do?

uh, why, exactly? this week is right in line with Brown's 2006 season, as was his first 2 games.i would think instead people would be happy that even in games where brown hasn't been able to do much on the ground cameron has used him well in the passing game.but, sure, a bunch of random guys on the internet figured out the secret to winning games in the nfl is running the ball. if only cam cameron would stumble into the self-proclaimed shark pool, he might learn something.

1) You don't have a quality back split time with a guy who sat out the NFl the past two years and has never done anything.2) Big backs get better the more they are used.3) Ronnie can catch the ball well; Cam hasn't taken advantage of that until this game.4) Cam has been pretty much negative about Brown and hasn't given him a chance until today; maybe if he had done so earlier the Finns would have won a game. They came close today.

#2 isn't true with Brown, or at least as not been demonstrated on the field. as i showed above, brown doesn't magically get better the more he's used. in games where he got more than 15 carries last year, his ypc dropped 0.5 after carry 15. in games where he starts off well, he continues to do well. in fact that's a good description of his 2 games against the jets last year.#3 isn't true as well. brown averaged 38 yds receiving in his 1st 2 games. he averaged 21 in 2006. and of course once we roll in today's stats, brown's on pace for a huge year receiving.and i'd argue y'all are making way too much out of 1 and 4, which are pretty speculative and for which you have no evidence they have affected anything on the field.

 

[thatguy]

so how about ronnie brown now?

 

[Raider Nation]

Hilarious. Brown has 6 points and 7 points in the first two weeks.

Today, I play against him....... naturally, 41 frigin points!

This hobby sucks sometimes.

 

[EBF]

I think this is the first time I can ever remember Ronnie Brown actually looking good. He showed with speed, power, and quickness. He looked like a different player.

 

[GoBirds]

so how about ronnie brown now?

think I did ok getting him 11th pick of 5th round. Also helps starting him next to Westbrook. :(

 

[Raider Nation]

so how about ronnie brown now?

think I did ok getting him 11th pick of 5th round.

Now the Dolphins just need to petition the NFL to get the Jets on the schedule for 16 games...

 

[Todem]

Ronnie played great today...as a Dolphin fan it was great to see. Let's see him play like this most of the time though. We have seen 1 great game out of him in 2005, 2006 and now 2007. Please Ronnie stay consistent.

I am not holding my breath. The Jet's are horrendous on defense and they played prevent after they went up 31-13. So their was plenty of space.

But again a very nice game from Brown.

 

[LMF]

Brown rides my bench this week. I can start 3 , Parker, Mc Gahee & Portis seem like better options.

Hope that you changed your mind last minute.

 

[LMF]

Finns are 6-3 in games where Brown gets the ball more than 20 times rushing.

They are 7-15 in games when he doesn't.

You can slice it and dice it however you want, but the bottom line is very clear: the Finns have a better chance to win when Ronnie is heavily involved in the offense. They didn't win today, largely because of Green INT in the third quarter when they got away from the run again, despite having success with it.

Not sure what you are saying: are you saying the team has a better chance to win today if Chatman replaces Brown or splits half the carries and receptions? Are you saying Brown is no good and this was just a lucky game?

[

Just to add to that:

Last year the Dolphins lost 8 games when Ronnie Brown played. 4 times he had less than 16 carries. In the 4 games he had 16+ carries and the Dolphins won the QB's threw 2 or more interceptions in 3 of the games (which is completely out of Browns hands). You cant say Brown isn't a factor in winning football games.

LMF

 

[J R]

Finns are 6-3 in games where Brown gets the ball more than 20 times rushing.

They are 7-15 in games when he doesn't.

You can slice it and dice it however you want, but the bottom line is very clear: the Finns have a better chance to win when Ronnie is heavily involved in the offense. They didn't win today, largely because of Green INT in the third quarter when they got away from the run again, despite having success with it.

Not sure what you are saying: are you saying the team has a better chance to win today if Chatman replaces Brown or splits half the carries and receptions? Are you saying Brown is no good and this was just a lucky game?

[

Just to add to that:

Last year the Dolphins lost 8 games when Ronnie Brown played. 4 times he had less than 16 carries. In the 4 games he had 16+ carries and the Dolphins won the QB's threw 2 or more interceptions in 3 of the games (which is completely out of Browns hands). You cant say Brown isn't a factor in winning football games.

LMF

i guess i would've thought that people who thought of themselves as sharks would understand that winning causes a higher number of total rushes, not the other way around. where's the smiley of a guppy at his computer?

 

[[scooter]]

Are they winning because Brown gets lots of carries?

Or does Brown get lots of carries because they're winning?

 

[TankRizzo]

THIS is what I've been screaming for. Give him the ball and he will produce!

 

[The Transformer]

I know you are probably tired of reading about all the Ronnie Brown threads, but just hear me out. And I apologize if this stuff was mentioned in an earlier thread. I was doing some research on which of my 3 RB's to start when I saw some info on Ronnie Brown and his carries. It was very brief so i decided to go into more extensively, and this is what I came up with. Here are some stats over his career:

On Carries # 1-10 during games he has 274 attempts for 1,065 yards for an average of 3.9 per carry. Just wait it gets better! On Carries # 11-20 during games he has 143 attempts for 718 yards for an average of 5.0 yards per carry. On carries #21-30 during games he has 31 attempts for 132 yards for an average of 4.3 yards per carry.

During the first half of games Brown has 245 attempts for 891 yards for an average of 3.6 yards a carry. Again this gets much better! During the second half of games Ronnie Brown has 203 attempts for 1024 yards for an average of 5.0 yards per carry.

During the first quarter of games Brown has 119 attempts for 379 yards for an average of 3.2 yards a carry. Again gets better! During the second quarter of games Brown has 126 attempts for 512 yards for an average of 4.1 yards a carry. And better! During the third quarter of games Brown has 114 attempts for 618 yards for an average of 4.6 yards a carry. During the fourth quarter of games Brown has 89 attempts for 406 yards for an average of 4.6 yards a carry.

When Ronnie Browns team is ahead, he has 145 attempts for 640 yards for an average of 4.4 yards per carry. When Brown's team is behind, he has 198 attempts for 902 yards for an average of 4.6 yards per carry. Also 84% of Brown's TD's come when his team is behind.

Stats on this year:

This year Brown in the first half Brown has 12 attempts for 18 yards for an average of 1.5 yards per carry. Again it gets better. This year Brown in the second half has 10 attempts for 47 yards for an average of 4.7 yards per carry.

This year Cam Cameron is calling 25% more pass plays in the 2nd half than in the 1st half. Last year under Nick Saban only called 3% more pass plays during the second half, and thats when Brown had is 1000 yard season.

Now with all of this said, I do realize that Brown is getting carry's in the first and second half pretty equally, but he is not getting nearly enough carry's to prove his worth. Brown is a power back that gets stronger as the game goes on. These statics show that Brown gets stronger as time goes on and the more carry's he gets in a game. If Cam Cameron would use this to his advantage Brown would put up much better numbers and prove his worth.

Also, if Brown was on a team that could pass worth a flip for the first 20-25 minutes or so with Brown his share of carries then Brown would be a top 10 back every year IMO.

Ronnie Brown isn't doing so hot this year, but i do believe that he will turn it around this year and end up close to or if not in the top 15 of RB's this year. I do believe in buy low on Ronnie Brown right now!

Talk about a good call before 3 huge weeks. Good call LMF! Also very interesting stat dig in.

 

[LMF]

I know you are probably tired of reading about all the Ronnie Brown threads, but just hear me out. And I apologize if this stuff was mentioned in an earlier thread. I was doing some research on which of my 3 RB's to start when I saw some info on Ronnie Brown and his carries. It was very brief so i decided to go into more extensively, and this is what I came up with. Here are some stats over his career:

On Carries # 1-10 during games he has 274 attempts for 1,065 yards for an average of 3.9 per carry. Just wait it gets better! On Carries # 11-20 during games he has 143 attempts for 718 yards for an average of 5.0 yards per carry. On carries #21-30 during games he has 31 attempts for 132 yards for an average of 4.3 yards per carry.

During the first half of games Brown has 245 attempts for 891 yards for an average of 3.6 yards a carry. Again this gets much better! During the second half of games Ronnie Brown has 203 attempts for 1024 yards for an average of 5.0 yards per carry.

During the first quarter of games Brown has 119 attempts for 379 yards for an average of 3.2 yards a carry. Again gets better! During the second quarter of games Brown has 126 attempts for 512 yards for an average of 4.1 yards a carry. And better! During the third quarter of games Brown has 114 attempts for 618 yards for an average of 4.6 yards a carry. During the fourth quarter of games Brown has 89 attempts for 406 yards for an average of 4.6 yards a carry.

When Ronnie Browns team is ahead, he has 145 attempts for 640 yards for an average of 4.4 yards per carry. When Brown's team is behind, he has 198 attempts for 902 yards for an average of 4.6 yards per carry. Also 84% of Brown's TD's come when his team is behind.

Stats on this year:

This year Brown in the first half Brown has 12 attempts for 18 yards for an average of 1.5 yards per carry. Again it gets better. This year Brown in the second half has 10 attempts for 47 yards for an average of 4.7 yards per carry.

This year Cam Cameron is calling 25% more pass plays in the 2nd half than in the 1st half. Last year under Nick Saban only called 3% more pass plays during the second half, and thats when Brown had is 1000 yard season.

Now with all of this said, I do realize that Brown is getting carry's in the first and second half pretty equally, but he is not getting nearly enough carry's to prove his worth. Brown is a power back that gets stronger as the game goes on. These statics show that Brown gets stronger as time goes on and the more carry's he gets in a game. If Cam Cameron would use this to his advantage Brown would put up much better numbers and prove his worth.

Also, if Brown was on a team that could pass worth a flip for the first 20-25 minutes or so with Brown his share of carries then Brown would be a top 10 back every year IMO.

Ronnie Brown isn't doing so hot this year, but i do believe that he will turn it around this year and end up close to or if not in the top 15 of RB's this year. I do believe in buy low on Ronnie Brown right now!

Talk about a good call before 3 huge weeks. Good call LMF! Also very interesting stat dig in.

Thanks! Always happy when work is appriciated!LMF

 

[Raider Nation]

Alias check on aisle "Transformer" please.

 

[PsychoMan]

Alias check on aisle "Transformer" please.