Todem
Footballguy
Spiller = world class blue chip talent.
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"Go Get These Guys" (1 Viewer)
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MikeHeel
Footballguy
I'd add Caddy to the list of undervalued. He will be the centerpiece of TB's offense this year and should significantly outperform has ADP.
Remember when Frank Gore was the newly-designated starter for SF but went low b/c of his prior injuries? That's Caddy this year, although I can't say Caddy's hands are as good as Gore's.
Remember when Frank Gore was the newly-designated starter for SF but went low b/c of his prior injuries? That's Caddy this year, although I can't say Caddy's hands are as good as Gore's.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Well, heck, isn't that what it's all about?
Who needs "domination" from a RB2?
Get an occasional 100 yard game and 1000+ yards from a very, very late round or cheapo ($1-4) auction pick? A great RB1 paired with a RB like the above will take you a long way.
The Browns offense should actually improve with Delhomme in there, but the WR's will never, ever turn them into a passing offense, why not expect more of the same?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
jerome harrison dominates detroit with 31 yards on 14 touches!!!!!!
dal_boys_phan
Footballguy
Harrison's domination comes from his production (pts) vs cost (or, more specifically, opportunity cost). The team that had him probably had major problems at RB2 - and probably was better than average at QB/WR/TE - so they plugged him in and let it fly. If you were not in a deep league and he got plucked off the waiver wire by a playoff team desperate for a 2nd back, they probably steam rolled the playoffs.
Last I checked, most leagues did not penalize for number of carries. Yes, that impacts his consideration going into 2010, but to cast aside what he did last year is foolhardy. The key is identifying the same player going into THIS year's playoffs.
Last I checked, most leagues did not penalize for number of carries. Yes, that impacts his consideration going into 2010, but to cast aside what he did last year is foolhardy. The key is identifying the same player going into THIS year's playoffs.
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Instinctive
Footballguy
Hey now...if he'd had his usual workload he might have gotten almost 90 yards...don't hate on the guy because it's preseason and the coaches only give him 1/3 of what they plan to week in and week out...
Instinctive
Footballguy
Look, you don't have to tell me that his FANTASY domination came from a high workload...that's the argument I made last year http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...Jerome+Harrison and have continued to make this year.
The problem with that is, he didn't dominate in NFL terms. Which means he's at a high risk of his NFL team no longer giving him 40 touches a game.
Hell, Adrian Peterson is at a high risk of not getting 40 touches per game...then again, he can do what Harrison did on 25 touches. That's why he remains the lead back in MIN, while CLE drafted a replacement.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I would challenge anybody who thinks jerome harrison is in any way remotely dominant, if they are true tothese beliefs and not bull####ting and fishing, to put 'JEROME HARRISON DOMINATES THE NFL!!!' in their sig, and leave it there all season.
if you want to cut a deal, I am willing to put 'JEROME HARRISON SUX!!!' in my sig.
if you want to cut a deal, I am willing to put 'JEROME HARRISON SUX!!!' in my sig.
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Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Hillis is going to get plenty of touches as well and probably will be the GL back.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Why would "Jerome Harrison dominates the NFL" be even remotely equivalent to saying he was dominant at the end of last season?
Instinctive
Footballguy
He wasn't dominant. He barely performed better than LaDainian Tomlinson. Everybody said LT was washed up and terrible, no? That's the same rate at which JH rushed...only difference is that LT didn't get 35 carries a game.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
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cr8f
Footballguy
I would say occasionally he would and he would get catches as well. I don't see a consistent GL back there. I think by week 8 barring injurt Hardesty will be the man. Reports at OTA's on how well he picked up the offense should result in his starting sooner rather than later.
Look out or you'll get hit by the fumble?Todem said:
So far Foster looks like this years Ray Rice.
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Instinctive
Footballguy
You either don't read, or you're fishing, in which case, great job, I'm hook line and sinker.
He had a dominant FANTASY line. He was absolutely NOT dominant in his role of an NFL RB. He was mediocre. Below average. Easily replaced. Incredibly lucky.
When a player does that, he gets replaced...as evidenced by the drafting of a rookie RB relatively high. You seem to be blinded by the fact that fantasy production can only come from continued NFL production, and if a guy has poor NFL production, then his fantasy line goes away too.
Todem
Footballguy
Bada boom. (cymbal crash)Ok somebody....quick book this guy on Leno.I would say occasionally he would and he would get catches as well. I don't see a consistent GL back there. I think by week 8 barring injurt Hardesty will be the man. Reports at OTA's on how well he picked up the offense should result in his starting sooner rather than later.Look out or you'll get hit by the fumble?Todem said:
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Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
What in God's name does this have to do with whether or not he was dominant at the end of last season?
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Agree completely. Wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole this year. He's just not very good.
A couple angry agenda's began being pushed...
Todem
Footballguy
Back to topic.
I grabbed a few guys we have been talking about about. I went for the fences in my only redraft league. 12 teamer PPR scoring 6 points all td's as well as bonus points for td's over 40 and over 60 yards.
A.Foster 4.6
Jahvid Best 5.5
Kevin Kolb 6.6
Ahmad Bradshaw 7.5
Should be fun.
And oh yes I handcuffed Slaton (turf toe injury was mild from what I heard and I have seen RB's play with that for years).
I grabbed a few guys we have been talking about about. I went for the fences in my only redraft league. 12 teamer PPR scoring 6 points all td's as well as bonus points for td's over 40 and over 60 yards.
A.Foster 4.6
Jahvid Best 5.5
Kevin Kolb 6.6
Ahmad Bradshaw 7.5
Should be fun.
And oh yes I handcuffed Slaton (turf toe injury was mild from what I heard and I have seen RB's play with that for years).
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shader
Footballguy
How did this weekend affect my thoughts?
Arian Foster seems like he was a good choice, and I still like him to be a top ten RB if he stays healthy. His value probably shot through the roof though, and I can't imagine that in drafts that occur from now to week 1, that his ADP will remain where it was last week.
If you were one of the fortunate owners that has alreay snagged him on the cheap, you will be rewarded.
I never try to make too much out of pre-season, but Peyton Hillis does scare me a little for Jerome Harrison owners.
Don't get me wrong, Harrison could still do it, but now you're throwing another guy in the hat for touches, and Hillis is such a hard-hitter that he might snag 5-7 TD's this year on the goalline.
Of course I did say that Harrison is "unlikely" to attain top ten status, and it is a little ridiculous that the thread has derailed because some Hardesty owners decided to hijack it.
Anyway, let's try and stay on topic here. No one in this thread anointed Harrison the next Jim Brown.
Arian Foster seems like he was a good choice, and I still like him to be a top ten RB if he stays healthy. His value probably shot through the roof though, and I can't imagine that in drafts that occur from now to week 1, that his ADP will remain where it was last week.
If you were one of the fortunate owners that has alreay snagged him on the cheap, you will be rewarded.
I never try to make too much out of pre-season, but Peyton Hillis does scare me a little for Jerome Harrison owners.
Don't get me wrong, Harrison could still do it, but now you're throwing another guy in the hat for touches, and Hillis is such a hard-hitter that he might snag 5-7 TD's this year on the goalline.
Of course I did say that Harrison is "unlikely" to attain top ten status, and it is a little ridiculous that the thread has derailed because some Hardesty owners decided to hijack it.
Anyway, let's try and stay on topic here. No one in this thread anointed Harrison the next Jim Brown.
Todem
Footballguy
Yes...the Browns RB situtation is so murky. Hillis is getting touches, Harrison is in the mix and when Hardesty is healthy they for sure will get him involved. I decided to just stay away from that quigmire (sp?).
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Steel Town
Footballguy
I'm gonna disagree with you here. That kind of performance is beyond dominating! Everyone seems to be holding the large number of carries against Harrison. I would argue the opposite. Any time a running back gets close to 40 carries in a game, you have to tip your hat to the guy. Not a huge fan of Harrison, but don't get why a large number of carries would be considered a negative. He obviously moved the chains.Dude, he wasn't average. Actually, what is the NFL ypc average? Right around 4? 3.7<4.......so I would say not even average.You're right, he wasn't even average in those games.Guys, peddle this junk somewhere else.
He sucked. He burned 39 downs against Oakland and only got 130 or so yards for it. That's awful production. If a receiver has 39 catches for 130 yards, is that a dominating performance? No.
The guy that has 5 catches for 130 yards is more dominating in a massive way...he got the same amount of yardage and used up 34 less offensive plays. He was an incredible asset...just like 130 yards of of 15 carries is WAY more impressive (or should I say "actually" impressive) when compared to 39 carries for 130 yards.
39 carries should damn well be an NFL record if we want to call it dominating. And this is coming from the guy who told you all it would happen a week or two before it did...
shader
Footballguy
Harrison is still my pick, as he has produced every time he has been given the opportunity. But I'm just not as confident as I was last week due to worries about Hillis.
Instinctive
Footballguy
I can't speak for Larry, but I don't own Hardesty, and I think it hurts you to make that assumption. Nobody is derailing the thread, a point was made that Harrison's NFL performance was poor, which is not a good sign for him to get more touches this year, which would make him a poor selection. I think the argument was simply that he didn't have a place on the list, and it actually seemed to generate quite a bit of discussion...which I thought was what the forum existed for...Foster does look good, but I'm also picking up Jeremiah Johnson. If Foster has any fumbling issues, Johnson is a powerful back in the MJD body type who could definitely have an impact this year.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
yeah, I don't own hardesty.
my spidey sense detects back pedaling.
my spidey sense detects back pedaling.
Team Canada
Footballguy
I only have 15 spots and I don't want to take the 20% chance on some of these guys. I agree with Bradshaw and maybe LT, but he is getting expensive with his involvement in the preseason. I think you would have to take all 3 Slaton, McGahee and LT to land the one guy. Meanwhile you're not picking up the Miles Austins, and Hakeem Nicks' and you're stuck with hoping Lee Evans finally reaches his potential. Don't hold you breath on that last one.I like I guy like Foster, Barber, Bradshaw. A mid rounder who could drop into the flex based on his floor or could sit top ten easily.Very
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I realize this has been extensively discussed, but I am still not sure I get this point:
--- why does a RB who closed out 2009 extremely, extremely strong on the league's #8 rushing offense getting better QB'ing get little or no enthusiasm (Harrison)?
--- while a RB who closed out 2009 very, very strong (but not as strong as Harrison) on the league's #30 rushing offense which has the same QB and which is devoted to the pass to the extreme gets tons and tons of enthusiasm (Foster)?
Also: Harrison's coach stuck with his starter til the end of his rope; Foster's coach yanked his RB's when they fumbled. Foster was behind Ryan Moats; while Harrison was behind longtime stalwart Jamal Lewis.
Foster could have been the all time runner at Tennessee, but then again he could never take the job away from Hardesty who is unable to wrest the job from..... Harrison.
Caveat: I watched Harrison end of last year on tv; I saw Foster live in the Dome vs the Saints this preseason, but that's it. Clearly there have been lots of live reports and I see all the excitement, but then there is the above.
--- why does a RB who closed out 2009 extremely, extremely strong on the league's #8 rushing offense getting better QB'ing get little or no enthusiasm (Harrison)?
--- while a RB who closed out 2009 very, very strong (but not as strong as Harrison) on the league's #30 rushing offense which has the same QB and which is devoted to the pass to the extreme gets tons and tons of enthusiasm (Foster)?
Also: Harrison's coach stuck with his starter til the end of his rope; Foster's coach yanked his RB's when they fumbled. Foster was behind Ryan Moats; while Harrison was behind longtime stalwart Jamal Lewis.
Foster could have been the all time runner at Tennessee, but then again he could never take the job away from Hardesty who is unable to wrest the job from..... Harrison.
Caveat: I watched Harrison end of last year on tv; I saw Foster live in the Dome vs the Saints this preseason, but that's it. Clearly there have been lots of live reports and I see all the excitement, but then there is the above.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
the dominator: 16 carries for 33 yds, 3 catches for 35
shader
Footballguy
Yes, the Harrison pick didn't turn out, Kool-aid Larry.But the Foster and McFadden picks aren't looking too bad, nor is the Addai pick. I wasn't trying to pick the top ten. Just to pick guys with low adp's that could potentially make the top ten.
Instinctive
Footballguy
I do say good job on Foster, but a tinge of "everyone on the board basically said the same thing" has to be mixed in.
McFadden is one I disagreed with, so nice one there.Addai is always undervalued since the one season he was injured and a 1st rounder. The fantasy world holds a grudge.
shader
Footballguy
I don't think Arian Foster got much love at all until he exploded during that pre-season game. Sure, he had his supporters, but at the time of this post, his ADP was still in the 20's.I do say good job on Foster, but a tinge of "everyone on the board basically said the same thing" has to be mixed in.McFadden is one I disagreed with, so nice one there.Addai is always undervalued since the one season he was injured and a 1st rounder. The fantasy world holds a grudge.
While there were some people who were high on Foster early, the Tate injury and the relegation of Slaton to return duties in the preseason drew a lot more attention to Foster. His ADP shot up over 10 rounds from end of July to end of August.(Cite: http://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/adp.php )
By late August, he was number 1 with a bullet on nearly every sleeper list.
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Addai has kinda become that guy you don't want to have but when you get to about week 8 you realize he is a consistent performer. He is also the type of player that teams try to find newer/better replacements and continue to just go back to him (IE: Packers with Ryan Grant, Thomas Jones wherever he has been, etc...)Addai has yet to shake the stigma of being a first round fantasy football bust 2 years ago (at least I think it was 2.) Matt Forte will most likely follow this path as well.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
are you getting it now?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
jerome harrison - 6 yds on 6 carries
however, that projects out to 100 yds on 100 carries.
however, that projects out to 100 yds on 100 carries.
i dunno, browns have a great oline and if harrison was indeed getting the bellcow carries he would be putting up fine numbers. i would hold your opinion in much higher esteem if you had predicted hillis to succeed. most ppl didnt, thats why he was a huge waiver pickup until week 3 in a lot of leagues.
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Instinctive
Footballguy
I think we mentioned a couple times that Hillis was the guy to own in CLE...And the exact point we made again and again was that Harrison is only good with an exorbitant amount of carries. That would seem to hold true thus far.
Todem
Footballguy
I made sure I picked him up in as many leagues as I could and even drafted him in the 3rd round (rookie/freeagent draft) of my big $$$ local dynasty league.He has really helped as a RB 3 performing at RB2 level.Great call on that one!
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Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
funny how every guy who wanders in off the street for directions, or whatever, ends up taking harrison's job.
shader
Footballguy
Ok, out of 6 players that had ADP's over 20 (among rb's only), I nailed 2 top 5 guys. Not bad.
I also had some HUGE misses, but that's going to happen when you are picking guys that others don't like.
What can we learn from this?
Every season, there are studs that come in the middle rounds. ESPECIALLY in deep roster-drafts, I think I am going to really focus on trading out of the top picks and acquiring as many mid-level draft picks as I possibly can.
Imagine I had taken the above list and tried to get all 6 of these guys. Probably could have done it relatively easy. PLUS I could have gotten Rodgers/Manning/Rivers and a stud WR as well.
Rodgers
Andre Johnson
Foster
Mcfadden
Championship in all formats most likely.
And that's not counting potential waiver wire gems like Hillis, Torain and many others that astute owners might have racked up.
I also had some HUGE misses, but that's going to happen when you are picking guys that others don't like.
What can we learn from this?
Every season, there are studs that come in the middle rounds. ESPECIALLY in deep roster-drafts, I think I am going to really focus on trading out of the top picks and acquiring as many mid-level draft picks as I possibly can.
Imagine I had taken the above list and tried to get all 6 of these guys. Probably could have done it relatively easy. PLUS I could have gotten Rodgers/Manning/Rivers and a stud WR as well.
Rodgers
Andre Johnson
Foster
Mcfadden
Championship in all formats most likely.
And that's not counting potential waiver wire gems like Hillis, Torain and many others that astute owners might have racked up.
