Gore or Barlow - News may shed on who's the starter (1 Viewer)

[Z-Dog]

At some point, i turn off the analysis, and turn on the eyes. Barlow has been in the league for five years. In three years splitting time he has 4.7 YPC and looked great. In two years as a starter, he has 3.3 ypc. It's really tough to look at those number, particulalry when compared to Gore's 4.8 ypc in the same offense, and conclude that Barlow is going to beat out Gore. Maybe Barlow's body just can't handle the pounding. Maybe he lost his desire after signing a big deal just after the '03 season. I don't know exactly what the story is, but looking at the performances, it is clear to me that Barlow is not the same back he was in '03, and that Gore is making the most of his opportunity.

It's not quite as hard when you consider the fact that Gore's 4.8 YPC was inflated by over a full yard because of a single long TD run against a Redskins defense with 2/3 of the starters on the sidelines in the late 4th quarter of a blowout.That, and the fact that Gore did very little until given 3 consecutive starts at the end of the year, with fresh legs against tired defenses, 2 of which were in the bottom 3 rush defenses in the NFL.Kevan Barlow had a very good stretch of 5 games in the middle of the season against much tougher competition that was more impressive than anything Gore did last year. It'll all be decided on the field, as it should be.

Without the long run, he's at 4.2 ypc, still FAR better than Barlow. I also don't know that the run should be taken out. Lots of RBs break runs in what you might call garbage time or when key players are out. Frankly, I don't log all the runs that every back had and then make a decision of whether it's worth including in his stats or not. And if Gore wasn't as fast as he was, that run could just as easily have been a 30 yarder before the safety chases him down. It is also telling that Barlow's longest run all season was 29 yards. An average yards per carry is made by deviations from the mean. The way guys get higher YPCs is by breaking a few big runs to pump the number, and high YPCs tell you whether a guy is able to break some long ones or not.One way or the other, you can't base your projections or thoughts on a player based on one play. I've watched both of these guys, and Barlow just hasn't been able to get it done. Barlow has had only three 100-yard games in two years as a starter. I don't know which five-game stretch you are referring to that was so impressive, but I'm guessing it's the one in which he scored a grand total of 1 TD and had between 45 and 65 yards in three of those games. I guess you are more easily impressed than I am...

 

[Steelers4Life]

At some point, i turn off the analysis, and turn on the eyes. Barlow has been in the league for five years. In three years splitting time he has 4.7 YPC and looked great. In two years as a starter, he has 3.3 ypc. It's really tough to look at those number, particulalry when compared to Gore's 4.8 ypc in the same offense, and conclude that Barlow is going to beat out Gore. Maybe Barlow's body just can't handle the pounding. Maybe he lost his desire after signing a big deal just after the '03 season. I don't know exactly what the story is, but looking at the performances, it is clear to me that Barlow is not the same back he was in '03, and that Gore is making the most of his opportunity.

It's not quite as hard when you consider the fact that Gore's 4.8 YPC was inflated by over a full yard because of a single long TD run against a Redskins defense with 2/3 of the starters on the sidelines in the late 4th quarter of a blowout.That, and the fact that Gore did very little until given 3 consecutive starts at the end of the year, with fresh legs against tired defenses, 2 of which were in the bottom 3 rush defenses in the NFL.Kevan Barlow had a very good stretch of 5 games in the middle of the season against much tougher competition that was more impressive than anything Gore did last year. It'll all be decided on the field, as it should be.

Without the long run, he's at 4.2 ypc, still FAR better than Barlow. I also don't know that the run should be taken out. Lots of RBs break runs in what you might call garbage time or when key players are out. Frankly, I don't log all the runs that every back had and then make a decision of whether it's worth including in his stats or not. And if Gore wasn't as fast as he was, that run could just as easily have been a 30 yarder before the safety chases him down. It is also telling that Barlow's longest run all season was 29 yards. An average yards per carry is made by deviations from the mean. The way guys get higher YPCs is by breaking a few big runs to pump the number, and high YPCs tell you whether a guy is able to break some long ones or not.One way or the other, you can't base your projections or thoughts on a player based on one play. I've watched both of these guys, and Barlow just hasn't been able to get it done. Barlow has had only three 100-yard games in two years as a starter. I don't know which five-game stretch you are referring to that was so impressive, but I'm guessing it's the one in which he scored a grand total of 1 TD and had between 45 and 65 yards in three of those games. I guess you are more easily impressed than I am...

| 3 dal | 12 65 | 28 | 0 || 4 ari | 10 45 | 10 | 0 || 5 ind | 18 99 | 29 | 0 || 7 was | 14 54 | 0 | 1 || 8 tam | 26 101 | 21 | 0 |This stretch. And yes, I realize that he didn't get a lot of yards in 3 of the games, but that wasn't because he wasn't running well. Considering his YPC and the competition, this was an impressive stretch of games, and far more impressive to me than Gore running with fresh legs against tired, poor run defenses of Houston and St. Louis. The TDs are lacking because of how bad the offense was around him, but he did his part when called upon. He looked particularly good against Indy and Tampa Bay, but as usual, he got no help. And I never said a run of Gore's should be taken out, just that it explains his gaudy YPC and was made under a situation not likely to be repeated. Had he consistently gotten more carries all year, his YPC would've been considerably less. I don't knock Gore, because I think he's a capable RB as long as he's healthy. I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[tennesseeTitans]

So if Frank Gore does get the starting job, what kind of numbers can we expect out of Barlow?

 

[hi1111]

i think it doesnt matter cause it'll end up a rbbc 700/4 gore 550/6 barlow with hicks going for 300/2

 

[Birdie048]

So if Frank Gore does get the starting job, what kind of numbers can we expect out of Barlow?

Well, if he is running behind the Denver OL, I would expect Top 15 numbers! But realisticly, I would project something a little different than the prognosticators here have....

Gore:

220 carries 1050 yards (4.77 ypc) 8 TD

32 rec 245 yards 1 TD

Barlow:

125 carries 475 yards (3.80 ypc) 2 TD

18 rec / 175 yards / 1 TD

I believe it will be a RBBC until a separation appears with Gore taking control of the situation. Barlow does nothing wrong, but does not excel like Gore.

TC will decide this issue. Barlow realizes he has Gore on his heals and is trying to do his best. But I don't think Barlow's best will win the job over Gore's best. Gore might not have to be at his absolute best and still win the RB#1 role. He has to continue to show how "hungry" he is and stay healthy.

FWIW: I own both.

 

[Z-Dog]

I don't think it's THAT realistic to project a guy at 4.7 ypc on over 200 carries. There are VERY few RBs who manage that kind of YPC. In the last 20 years, only 65 backs have done it, or about 3 per year (one of them was Barolow in 2003, btw). I suppose it's possible, but I see Gore's YPC going down if he gets a lot of carries, more to the 4.3-4.5 range.

 

[cstu]

This shouldn't come as much surprise.

Barlow's work ethic is averagePublished Thu Aug 10 7:44:00 a.m. PT 2006(Rotoworld) 49ers coach Mike Nolan said Kevan Barlow's work ethic is "good," not "outstanding."Impact: "That doesn't bother me because he's a talented guy," Nolan said. Still, Nolan constantly praises Frank Gore's work ethic and easy to see that Gore is "his guy." We expect to see Barlow grow into a third-down role.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Nolan taking Questions

RE: What have you learned about RB Kevan Barlow’s motivation?

“When I took this job, I was painted a picture about him and after speaking with him, talking about the issues, he has not been a distraction to our football team. He has not verbally said things that will get him into trouble. Some of that is credit to our PR staff who is trying to help him close his mouth before the trouble hits. I know that’s a frustration to you guys, because you want to see him put the old size-13 in the mouth, but he’s done a great job of that. He’s come to work, done his thing. His work has been good. I wouldn’t stay it’s outstanding, but his work is good. I think the biggest thing is that the distraction that he was before, has not been since I’ve been here. He’s done a good job and he’s clearly our best back.”

RE: Is Kevan Barlow someone who blames others rather than himself?

“I’m not going to say he did, but some guys do. They like to say, ‘I confess: You did it,’ when they’re wrong. That doesn’t go very far here. They spout off a little bit in huddles and stuff from time to time, say ‘make your block’ and things like that, but that’s what they do. That’s okay. I like to see them competitive. That’s a good thing. In the end, they need to take it upon themselves to deal with it. Playing in the NFL, you get paid a lot of good money. You have to be better than someone else. You don’t get 11 one-on-one victories every night. Someone doesn’t get it done just right. That’s the way it is. I think you’re talking more about the personality thing. Kevan’s okay.”

RE: Barlow’s work being “good, not outstanding”

“That doesn’t bother me, because he’s a talented guy. I would love for him to be one of the top workers on the team, but he’s okay. I haven’tgot issues with him. If I’ve got issues with him, it’s a problem, but I don’t. Not everyone’s going to be my number one guy. There are going to be certain people who work harder than others and that’s just the way it is. BY is way up there, we all know that. Kevan just falls into a category that suits him. If he gets below a certain point and I have issue with, I’ll say, ‘I have an issue,’ but I don’t have an issue with Kevan.”

Clear as mud.

 

[cstu]

Nolan taking Questions

RE: What have you learned about RB Kevan Barlow’s motivation?

“When I took this job, I was painted a picture about him and after speaking with him, talking about the issues, he has not been a distraction to our football team. He has not verbally said things that will get him into trouble. Some of that is credit to our PR staff who is trying to help him close his mouth before the trouble hits. I know that’s a frustration to you guys, because you want to see him put the old size-13 in the mouth, but he’s done a great job of that. He’s come to work, done his thing. His work has been good. I wouldn’t stay it’s outstanding, but his work is good. I think the biggest thing is that the distraction that he was before, has not been since I’ve been here. He’s done a good job and he’s clearly our best back.”

RE: Is Kevan Barlow someone who blames others rather than himself?

“I’m not going to say he did, but some guys do. They like to say, ‘I confess: You did it,’ when they’re wrong. That doesn’t go very far here. They spout off a little bit in huddles and stuff from time to time, say ‘make your block’ and things like that, but that’s what they do. That’s okay. I like to see them competitive. That’s a good thing. In the end, they need to take it upon themselves to deal with it. Playing in the NFL, you get paid a lot of good money. You have to be better than someone else. You don’t get 11 one-on-one victories every night. Someone doesn’t get it done just right. That’s the way it is. I think you’re talking more about the personality thing. Kevan’s okay.”

RE: Barlow’s work being “good, not outstanding”

“That doesn’t bother me, because he’s a talented guy. I would love for him to be one of the top workers on the team, but he’s okay. I haven’tgot issues with him. If I’ve got issues with him, it’s a problem, but I don’t. Not everyone’s going to be my number one guy. There are going to be certain people who work harder than others and that’s just the way it is. BY is way up there, we all know that. Kevan just falls into a category that suits him. If he gets below a certain point and I have issue with, I’ll say, ‘I have an issue,’ but I don’t have an issue with Kevan.”

Clear as mud.

I'm surprised to see him come out and say "clearly".

 

[Chaos Commish]

Nolan taking Questions

He’s done a good job and he’s clearly our best back.”

Clear as mud.

I'm surprised to see him come out and say "clearly".

Yeah, that's the money quote, but the rest of it is pretty murky.

 

[Otis]

"He’s done a good job and he’s clearly our best back.”

This surprises me.

 

[There it is]

Good bump. Thanks.

 

[Birdie048]

I don't think it's THAT realistic to project a guy at 4.7 ypc on over 200 carries. There are VERY few RBs who manage that kind of YPC. In the last 20 years, only 65 backs have done it, or about 3 per year (one of them was Barolow in 2003, btw). I suppose it's possible, but I see Gore's YPC going down if he gets a lot of carries, more to the 4.3-4.5 range.

I realize 4.77 is a high YPC...and there were 5 RB's last year with ypc > 4.7 who had over 200 carries (LJ, FWP, Tiki, SA, & Dunn). .. but Gore has the explosive burst to break some long runs. I am projecting that in his value. If he breaks 1 long run (20+ yards) every game, he should be over 4.5 ypc. Last year with the pathetic SF Offense, Barlow & Gore combined for 27 big plays. I am simply upgrading Gore based on RB#1 role and the improved OL/Offense. Projections of 35 big plays (comparable to W Dunn last year) is not unrealistic. Dunn had 280 carries with a 5.1 ypc. I am projecting Gore in a comparable role. They have upgraded/improved the OL. This should be the biggest help to the SF offense: LT Jonas Jennings 6'3 325LG Larry Allen 6'3 325C Eric Heitmann 6'3 305RG Justin Smiley 6'3 301RT Kwame Harris 6'7 310THAT'S ALOT OF BEEF! Jennings missed most of last year due to injury (after a few solid seasons in Buff!). Larry Allen while aging, still is a premier run blocker. Backups in Baas, Newberry & Snyder offer some much needed depth.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

jesus christ

 

[Sweet Love]

I don't think it's THAT realistic to project a guy at 4.7 ypc on over 200 carries. There are VERY few RBs who manage that kind of YPC. In the last 20 years, only 65 backs have done it, or about 3 per year (one of them was Barolow in 2003, btw). I suppose it's possible, but I see Gore's YPC going down if he gets a lot of carries, more to the 4.3-4.5 range.

I realize 4.77 is a high YPC...and there were 5 RB's last year with ypc > 4.7 who had over 200 carries (LJ, FWP, Tiki, SA, & Dunn). .. but Gore has the explosive burst to break some long runs. I am projecting that in his value. If he breaks 1 long run (20+ yards) every game, he should be over 4.5 ypc. Last year with the pathetic SF Offense, Barlow & Gore combined for 27 big plays. I am simply upgrading Gore based on RB#1 role and the improved OL/Offense. Projections of 35 big plays (comparable to W Dunn last year) is not unrealistic. Dunn had 280 carries with a 5.1 ypc. I am projecting Gore in a comparable role. They have upgraded/improved the OL. This should be the biggest help to the SF offense: LT Jonas Jennings 6'3 325LG Larry Allen 6'3 325C Eric Heitmann 6'3 305RG Justin Smiley 6'3 301RT Kwame Harris 6'7 310THAT'S ALOT OF BEEF! Jennings missed most of last year due to injury (after a few solid seasons in Buff!). Larry Allen while aging, still is a premier run blocker. Backups in Baas, Newberry & Snyder offer some much needed depth.

Birdie,Don't show your cards. You have a draft in two weeks

 

[Z-Dog]

I don't think it's THAT realistic to project a guy at 4.7 ypc on over 200 carries. There are VERY few RBs who manage that kind of YPC. In the last 20 years, only 65 backs have done it, or about 3 per year (one of them was Barolow in 2003, btw). I suppose it's possible, but I see Gore's YPC going down if he gets a lot of carries, more to the 4.3-4.5 range.

I realize 4.77 is a high YPC...and there were 5 RB's last year with ypc > 4.7 who had over 200 carries (LJ, FWP, Tiki, SA, & Dunn). .. but Gore has the explosive burst to break some long runs. I am projecting that in his value. If he breaks 1 long run (20+ yards) every game, he should be over 4.5 ypc. Last year with the pathetic SF Offense, Barlow & Gore combined for 27 big plays. I am simply upgrading Gore based on RB#1 role and the improved OL/Offense. Projections of 35 big plays (comparable to W Dunn last year) is not unrealistic. Dunn had 280 carries with a 5.1 ypc. I am projecting Gore in a comparable role. They have upgraded/improved the OL. This should be the biggest help to the SF offense: LT Jonas Jennings 6'3 325LG Larry Allen 6'3 325C Eric Heitmann 6'3 305RG Justin Smiley 6'3 301RT Kwame Harris 6'7 310THAT'S ALOT OF BEEF! Jennings missed most of last year due to injury (after a few solid seasons in Buff!). Larry Allen while aging, still is a premier run blocker. Backups in Baas, Newberry & Snyder offer some much needed depth.

I hear you, but I'm more conservative than that.

 

[lod2005]

"He’s done a good job and he’s clearly our best back.” This surprises me.

Translated: 'Hey NY Jets, Barlow can be had.'

 

[JMJ]

Does this mean that Kevan Barlow still has to be viewed as a potential "starting RB?"

 

[CalBear]

They have upgraded/improved the OL. This should be the biggest help to the SF offense: LT Jonas Jennings 6'3 325LG Larry Allen 6'3 325C Eric Heitmann 6'3 305RG Justin Smiley 6'3 301RT Kwame Harris 6'7 310THAT'S ALOT OF BEEF!

As a general rule, lighter linemen are better at run blocking while heavier linemen are better at pass blocking. Denver has just one starting OL over 300 pounds; Arizona was both the largest and the worst run-blocking OL in 2005. Fox rates SF's line as #30.

 

[kupcho1]

It's Gore and it's not even a race. Gore will easily overtake the wimpy Barlow in 2006, sending that weakass clown to the bench. This game ain't for wimps. The powerful Gore ran over and around all that tried to tackle him in 2005 with 2 bum shoulders. THAT IS A PLAYA!!! The LOD saw the greatness that is Frank Gore, stealing him in Rd. 2. Gore runs with power, speed, vision and anything else you can think of. His super flypaper hands will keep him in on all passing downs also. Now with a revamped O-line, nothing can stop the MIGHTY FRANK GORE from posting record stats. 350-2400-34 TD's is not out of the question for this future Hall of Famer. Said coach Mike Nolan: "The thing that impresses me most in watching him run - when you think he's got two yards, he'll pop out of there for six (yards). ... Until you've got him on the ground, his legs are churning." Damn straight. Asked how he compares to any of the Assassins RB's, Frank responded 'I am vastly superior to any of those jabronies on or off the football field. In fact in a street fight, I would stomp all 4 of them into the ground within 2 minutes.' He continued, 'They are afraid of me'. The Assassins coach responded with 'That dude makes me dump in my pants so much that I keep the depends manufacturer in production 24 hours a day'. The Chickboys owner echoed those sentiments, adding 'My ### blows apart anytime I see that guy coming'. FRANK GORE!!!!!!!!!!

This may be the worst shtick I've ever read, and I've read most of coops work.

 

[Otis]

Does this mean that Kevan Barlow still has to be viewed as a potential "starting RB?"

Not by me he won't be.

 

[Lombardi's Orphan Son]

i love it when a plan comes together.

 

[PahtyTom]

As funny as it may sound, Barlow really benefited from hanging out with TO. Since TO left, Barlow's work ethic seemingly has not been the same.

 

[Portis 26]

I've argued this point vehemently before, and I'll doubtless argue it again.Although Barlow may be listed as the starter now out of courtesy, I think Gore will be given every chance to win the job. It's not only because he's more talented and has more upside than Barlow. It's because he's Mike Nolan's guy, and Barlow was the previous regime's guy. All other things being equal, a team's coach and general office are much more likely to favor a player they drafted than a player they inherited - particularly if the one they inherited has an inflated salary and questionable character.

 

[jurb26]

I've argued this point vehemently before, and I'll doubtless argue it again.Although Barlow may be listed as the starter now out of courtesy, I think Gore will be given every chance to win the job. It's not only because he's more talented and has more upside than Barlow. It's because he's Mike Nolan's guy, and Barlow was the previous regime's guy. All other things being equal, a team's coach and general office are much more likely to favor a player they drafted than a player they inherited - particularly if the one they inherited has an inflated salary and questionable character.

 

[TheFanatic]

"He’s done a good job and he’s clearly our best back.” This surprises me.

Translated: 'Hey NY Jets, Barlow can be had.'

This was the MONEY call!?!?! Nice job LOD.....

 

[switz]

The only people giving Gore the starting job are outsiders with opinions.

I guess the Jets are outsiders, and CalBear was right, I guess they did end up giving Gore the job.

 

[Otis]

The only people giving Gore the starting job are outsiders with opinions.

I guess the Jets are outsiders, and CalBear was right, I guess they did end up giving Gore the job.

Good info here

 

[TheFanatic]

The only people giving Gore the starting job are outsiders with opinions.

I guess the Jets are outsiders, and CalBear was right, I guess they did end up giving Gore the job.

Outsider? CheckOpinion? Check on that one tooHad this one called right despite the above two facts? Check again....