What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Grantland.com (1 Viewer)

ESPN looks even more comical with the new AP story out.
The one where the cop confirms sending the tape to the NFL?
Already out, the difference now is that he named its recipient. Wonder if that was bill's trump card.
These guys (and by guys I mean all the talking heads) know "things" that they can't report. If you listen to Jalen and Jacoby, Jalen frequently has tidbits he couches as hypotheticals he has heard from agents or players . I don't think it's far fetched to think Simmons knows things about this which aren't being said since they can't be corroborated especially if the NFL is playing dumb.
I'm sure Simmons knows "things", but I doubt he could go public with them because it would ruin his relationships with his sources. Years ago Simmons used to leak stories about the Rockets because his buddy Daryl Morey got hired as the GM. Then Morey cut him off. He knows better than to bite the hand that feeds him.

 
Would Simmons have gotten suspended if the exact same rant called Ray Rice a liar instead of Goodell? How much of this is keeping the NFL happy as opposed to "journalistic standards"?

 
Would Simmons have gotten suspended if the exact same rant called Ray Rice a liar instead of Goodell? How much of this is keeping the NFL happy as opposed to "journalistic standards"?
My guess:

90% about keeping the NFL happy

10% because he dared them to

0% about journalistic standards

 
ESPN ombudsman's take
Roger Goodell is the sports worlds villain du jour, but until the NFLs elevator of investigation reaches the top -- or ESPN delivers a smoking gun that proves when the NFL viewed the Ray Rice video -- the commissioner is not a certified liar.And Bill Simmons has no license to call him one without more justification than Im just saying it.
 
I don't see how Lipsyte can praise Olbermann, who called Goodell "an enabler of those who beat women" and then turn around and say that another on-air personality has no license to call Goodell a liar. In both cases, it's clear the speaker is delivering opinion and not reporting.

 
I don't see how Lipsyte can praise Olbermann, who called Goodell "an enabler of those who beat women" and then turn around and say that another on-air personality has no license to call Goodell a liar. In both cases, it's clear the speaker is delivering opinion and not reporting.
:goodposting:

Ombudsman is a liar imo
all part of the plan

the plan included suspending simmons, not olbermann

 
The tipping point, I'm guessing, was the specific use of the word "liar" re: Gooddell. That's a dirty word in journalism for some reason.

Simmons' threat to "go public" is interesting, and I hope there's something to it. But severing ties with ESPN also means losing a ####-ton of money and the other properties that he likes so much.
I disagree completely. I don't think the suspension had anything to do with what he said about Goodell, either the word "liar" or the accusations - it was ESPN OTL that put out the story making the accusations in the first place.

IMO he got suspended for daring them to suspend him.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
ESPN looks even more comical with the new AP story out.
The one where the cop confirms sending the tape to the NFL?
What's in the article that isn't in this ESPN article from a week earlier?http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11551518/how-ray-rice-scandal-unfolded-baltimore-ravens-roger-goodell-nfl
The name of the recipient in the nfl office.
Wow, ESPN looks comical!

 
I don't pay attention to baseball at all but Bryan Curtis' piece on the continuing pronouncements of its death was pretty good. Danged if baseball teams aren't raking it in.

 
I would think he stays too. The NBA analyst gig he has is a wetdream and he'd only leave that to be the GM if they started an NBA team in Vegas.
apparently he's already been canned from the NBA studio gig.
I didn't know that. I didn't think he was very good as NBA talking head. Fish out of water.
a. He was too much of a cheerleader. Rooting for the Celtics is fine, but when you are doing a national telecast, you should at least try to pretend to be a little impartial.

b. He likes the sound of his voice too much. He always had that "Can they please stop talking so I can start talking?" look on his face.
I agree he wanted to talk too much and that was a problem, but I really don't see the problem with him being a Celtics homer. Even on a national telecast.

I think we've reached a level of access with public figures that it really seems stupid to expect things to be the same as they always have. He's a Celtics fan. Everyone knows it. Who gives a ####?

20 years ago, everything that happens on Inside the NBA would've been considered completely inappropriate and unprofessional, but we'e evolved.

Yes, he's a fish out of water, but that's not a bad thing. 99.9% of sports studio shows suck, and the tendency is for networks to want to find ways to make them suck more. Being a fish comfortable in the typical studio show water really isn't a good thing.

Simmons/Jalen/Coach/Burke was leaps and bounds better than the terrible Wilbon/Magic show.
If Simmons, Rose, Lowe, and Jacoby did a basketball show that would give Chuck,Kenny, and Ernie a run for their moeny.
God no. a million times no.

 
I would think he stays too. The NBA analyst gig he has is a wetdream and he'd only leave that to be the GM if they started an NBA team in Vegas.
apparently he's already been canned from the NBA studio gig.
I didn't know that. I didn't think he was very good as NBA talking head. Fish out of water.
a. He was too much of a cheerleader. Rooting for the Celtics is fine, but when you are doing a national telecast, you should at least try to pretend to be a little impartial.

b. He likes the sound of his voice too much. He always had that "Can they please stop talking so I can start talking?" look on his face.
I agree he wanted to talk too much and that was a problem, but I really don't see the problem with him being a Celtics homer. Even on a national telecast.

I think we've reached a level of access with public figures that it really seems stupid to expect things to be the same as they always have. He's a Celtics fan. Everyone knows it. Who gives a ####?

20 years ago, everything that happens on Inside the NBA would've been considered completely inappropriate and unprofessional, but we'e evolved.

Yes, he's a fish out of water, but that's not a bad thing. 99.9% of sports studio shows suck, and the tendency is for networks to want to find ways to make them suck more. Being a fish comfortable in the typical studio show water really isn't a good thing.

Simmons/Jalen/Coach/Burke was leaps and bounds better than the terrible Wilbon/Magic show.
If Simmons, Rose, Lowe, and Jacoby did a basketball show that would give Chuck,Kenny, and Ernie a run for their moeny.
God no. a million times no.
Simmons and Lowe are terrific on their pods. Jalen and Jacoby unlistenable.

Simmons, Lowe and Webber would be a nice trio. With Voulgaris pitching in. Each have their niche.

 
I would think he stays too. The NBA analyst gig he has is a wetdream and he'd only leave that to be the GM if they started an NBA team in Vegas.
apparently he's already been canned from the NBA studio gig.
I didn't know that. I didn't think he was very good as NBA talking head. Fish out of water.
a. He was too much of a cheerleader. Rooting for the Celtics is fine, but when you are doing a national telecast, you should at least try to pretend to be a little impartial.

b. He likes the sound of his voice too much. He always had that "Can they please stop talking so I can start talking?" look on his face.
I agree he wanted to talk too much and that was a problem, but I really don't see the problem with him being a Celtics homer. Even on a national telecast.

I think we've reached a level of access with public figures that it really seems stupid to expect things to be the same as they always have. He's a Celtics fan. Everyone knows it. Who gives a ####?

20 years ago, everything that happens on Inside the NBA would've been considered completely inappropriate and unprofessional, but we'e evolved.

Yes, he's a fish out of water, but that's not a bad thing. 99.9% of sports studio shows suck, and the tendency is for networks to want to find ways to make them suck more. Being a fish comfortable in the typical studio show water really isn't a good thing.

Simmons/Jalen/Coach/Burke was leaps and bounds better than the terrible Wilbon/Magic show.
If Simmons, Rose, Lowe, and Jacoby did a basketball show that would give Chuck,Kenny, and Ernie a run for their moeny.
God no. a million times no.
I think "Inside the NBA" is on a pretty steep decline. Chuck's schtick was once awesome, but now it just comes off as a I guy that isn't particularly interested in doing an NBA studio show. A good rule of thumb is when a show brings in a 20 foot tall screen for an analyst to play with for 10 seconds an episode, they are likely on the downside.

The schtickfest was fun back when there was no other decent NBA studio show, but now that ESPN seems committed to putting a decent one out there, Inside the NBA looks pretty bad in comparison. Yes, I know Simmons talks too much and isn't a natural fit on TV, but that's a fixable problem. And it's a problem of, if anything, caring too much. I'd rather watch Simmons/Jalen/Coach/Burke work out the kinks than watch Inside the NBA post whacky pictures.

 
Front page of NY Times this morning

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/sports/bill-simmonss-return-sets-intrigue-in-motion-at-espn.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSumSmallMediaHigh&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

A decade ago, Howard Stern got tired of fighting with the Federal Communications Commission over its decency standards and quit Viacom for satellite radio.

More recently, Glenn Beck clashed with his bosses at Fox News and started his own Internet channel, Glenn Beck TV.

Will ESPN’s Bill Simmons, one of America’s most popular sports personalities, be the next outspoken media star to strike out on his own?

Simmons, who insiders say earns more than $5 million a year, comes back to the sports network Wednesday after serving a three-week suspension for calling N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell a “liar” during a podcast, and then effectively daring ESPN to punish him. During his absence, Simmons became a free-speech martyr, complete with his own social-media hashtag: #FreeSimmons. Among the many to speak out on Twitter in his defense were Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham. “We love and need Bill,” Dunham wrote. “The definition of a REAL (gentle)man in a world of liars and fools.”

His return marks only the beginning of the intrigue as he and ESPN jockey in advance of the expiration of his contract next fall. The implications may be far-reaching, as Simmons could become something of a litmus test for the rising power of individual brands in a rapidly shifting media landscape.

The drama will unfold at a time when sports have never been a more influential cultural and economic force, and venture-capital seed money is freely flowing into new-media start-ups.

“He’s a huge brand and sports are a passion point,” said Gary Vaynerchuk, an Internet entrepreneur who invests in media companies. “Right this minute there is so much money being thrown around he could probably raise a disproportionate valuation for Bill Simmons Inc.”

Simmons, 45, pioneered the informal, fan-centric style that dominates so much sports coverage on the Internet. At ESPN, which hired Simmons in 2002, he’s been able to transform himself into much more than a sportswriter. His weekly podcast, “The B.S. Report,” invariably sits at the top of the most downloaded list on iTunes. He helped create the “30 for 30” documentary series and the Grantland website, and is developing a Grantland N.B.A. show that will debut later this month.

Continue reading the main story RELATED COVERAGE Simmons declined to comment. Since his suspension, he has surfaced only in snapshots on his Instagram account — Simmons at the beach, Simmons on the golf course — seemingly designed to let ESPN know that he’s enjoying his time off. But people close to Simmons say he is furious and has been talking a lot about whether ESPN is still the right place for him. He has threatened to leave ESPN before, but this is the most pitched moment yet in their fraught relationship.

Photo
SIMMONS2-master315.jpg

Glenn Beck began his own Internet channel after battling his bosses at Fox News. CreditFox News ChannelThose close to Simmons said he feels that the company has changed significantly since he renewed his current contract in 2009. In the intervening years, John Walsh, the ESPN executive who gave Simmons his first assignment after reading a column in which he mocked the award show the ESPYs, has played a diminishing role in the company. John Skipper, another early Simmons champion, was elevated to president of ESPN.

Continue reading the main story
While Skipper remains a strong supporter of Simmons, he has less day-to-day involvement with the company’s editorial operations. It was not Skipper, but an executive vice president at ESPN who reports to him, Marie Donoghue, who called Simmons to inform him of his suspension.

Last week, Robert A. Iger, the chief executive of the Walt Disney Company, which owns ESPN, was asked about the controversy at a conference hosted by Vanity Fair magazine. Iger would only say that Simmons was taken off the air because his comments about Goodell, made in the thick of the Ray Rice domestic violence scandal, did not conform to ESPN’s journalism standards.

If Simmons were to leave ESPN, he could move to another media conglomerate, such as Fox, or to a digital media giant like Yahoo or AOL. (He actually first made his name blogging for AOL for $50 a week.)

It seems more likely that Simmons would want to create a multiplatform business of his own. Hypothetically, anyway, it could include a production studio that makes sports films and documentaries for a distributor like HBO or Netflix; a podcast network; a website; and maybe a YouTube channel.

Simmons will have to weigh the profile, access and guaranteed salary he gets from ESPN against the uncertain promise of building something of his own.

Photo
SIMMONS1-master315.jpg

Howard Stern left Viacom and is now heard on satellite radio. CreditRichard Drew/Associated Press“Ninety-nine out of 100 sportswriters have no entrepreneurial leanings,” said Michael Wilbon, a co-host of “Pardon the Interruption” on ESPN. “Could Bill be the exception? I guess. I’m not ruling out the possibility.”

Simmons has already built one product around his sensibility, Grantland, an admired sports and pop-culture site. Its traffic numbers are modest — it attracts close to 5 million visitors a month, and benefits from a portal on ESPN’s home page — but the site is still young and driving clicks has never been part of Grantland’s more literary mission.

In some ways, the best model for Simmons might be Beck, who established his business on the back of a free website, the Blaze, and a subscription-only Internet network. Fox paid Beck about $2.5 million a year. In its first year, Glenn Beck TV generated about $40 million in revenue.

Continue reading the main story RECENT COMMENTS Brendan P. Myers 57 minutes ago"ESPN’s bottom line, which depends not on the power of its personalities but on its deals to broadcast live sporting events."Actually, it...

Ricky 57 minutes agoHoward Stern built satellite radio, for all intents and purposes, and created a viable alternative to terrestrial radio. Podcasts and...

Jennifer 57 minutes agoI've enjoyed Simmons since his Page 2 days at ESPN. He seemed genuinely angry about the Ray Rice situation and expressed that repeatedly. I...
  • SEE ALL COMMENTS
  • WRITE A COMMENT
But Beck already had several different revenue-generating platforms in place when he left Fox, most notably a radio show syndicated on more than 400 stations that he could use to drive his listeners to his new web TV venture.

Simmons has a faithful fan base, too — including almost 3 million Twitter followers — though it’s difficult to know how much of it comes courtesy of ESPN, which attracts more than 80 million visitors a month to its website alone. ESPN has proven to be a difficult perch to give up, even for those with a history of conflict with the company. Consider Keith Olbermann, who rejoined ESPN last year for the third time in his broadcasting career.

“The way I look at things is what is the community around Bill Simmons and how big is that community?” said Betsy Morgan, a president and the chief strategy officer of Beck’s TV network and website. “If Bill didn’t live on ESPN, would that community still have a way to find him?”

Photo
SIMMONS3-master315.jpg

Ezra Klein left a traditional news organization for a digital-media venture.CreditDaniel Rosenbaum for The New York TimesContinue reading the main storyContinue reading the main story
Continue reading the main story
Individual brands have proven to be portable in the age of digital media, which has made it easier than ever for personalities to connect with their fans. The more established news and entertainment companies no longer have the same hold over the biggest stars. A number of high-profile journalists, including Katie Couric, Glenn Greenwald and Ezra Klein, have recently left traditional news organizations for digital-media ventures.

Kenneth Lerer, the co-founder of the Huffington Post and chairman of BuzzFeed, said he has never met Simmons, but thought it would be relatively easy for him to move to another large company, but infinitely more difficult to start something of his own. “Knowing what I know now,” Lerer said, “I think he should say: ‘I had a breakdown, I didn’t mean what I said. I’m back at ESPN and I love it.’ ”

Simmons’s suspension was just the latest rift between him and the network. In August, Simmons abruptly departed ESPN’s basketball pregame show, “NBA Countdown,” after a brief, unhappy tenure.

Last year, he was banned from Twitter for three days after describing a segment on the ESPN2 program “First Take” as “awful and embarrassing for everyone involved.” The latest censure was far more draconian. ESPN, which has close business ties to the N.F.L., docked him two weeks’ pay and prohibited him from communicating with any of his colleagues.

CONTINUE READING THE MAIN STORY18COMMENTS

The company seemed to be sending a message. For all of his popular appeal, Simmons is peripheral to ESPN’s bottom line, which depends not on the power of its personalities but on its deals to broadcast live sporting events. There are executives at the company’s headquarters in Bristol, Conn., who resent the freedom — and resources —
that Simmons has been given to run his own fief in Los Angeles.

There is still another year on Simmons’s contract, plenty of time for cooler heads to prevail. On the other hand, like Howard Stern and Glenn Beck before him, Simmons may crave more freedom. And even apart from the ongoing tension with ESPN, Simmons has long seen himself as someone who likes taking chances.

“I am not afraid to fail,” he told the Huffington Post a few years ago. “And beyond that, I am not afraid to fail violently and miserably. So anything is possible.”

 
This power struggle is really fascinating to watch. ESPN is tailored to reaching the lowest common denominator these days (its tv viewers) and probably doesn't care all that much if Simmons would depart. OTOH, Simmons may not be able to make $5 million annually on his own but it's always possible that something awesome could come out of an independent Simmons empire and it would be fun to see him turned loose in an unrestrained environment.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Like any other big corporation, ESPN puts their employees on a leash to where you have to tow the company line to an extent or else they'll lay the smackdown on you. Granted, a guy like Simmons is given much more rope than most other names at ESPN, but that's still not enough for a guy like him, who likes to say outrageous things and is used to getting away with it. I can't imagine he'll be happy coming back knowing he has to self-edit himself for fear of another punishment from his bosses, but can he make the same amount of money, get as much recognition, and get as many fringe benefits elsewhere as he does at ESPN? No way.

 
Like any other big corporation, ESPN puts their employees on a leash to where you have to tow the company line to an extent or else they'll lay the smackdown on you. Granted, a guy like Simmons is given much more rope than most other names at ESPN, but that's still not enough for a guy like him, who likes to say outrageous things and is used to getting away with it. I can't imagine he'll be happy coming back knowing he has to self-edit himself for fear of another punishment from his bosses, but can he make the same amount of money, get as much recognition, and get as many fringe benefits elsewhere as he does at ESPN? No way.
An interesting quote from Chapter 3 in that Awful Announcing series linked above:

ESPN.com editor Jay Lovinger says in Those Guys that “Only ‘Bill World’ will ever satisfy Bill.”
People have slipped golden handcuffs before for the pursuit of creative independence. He has millions of followers and would be a pretty good bet to find some deep-pocketed backers if he went off to start "Bill World" at the end of his ESPN contract.

 
Not to change the topic, but those Andrew Sharp "Hot Sports Takes" are parody, right? I mean, Notre Dame and the Cowboys are all that's right with football, come on.

 
Like any other big corporation, ESPN puts their employees on a leash to where you have to tow the company line to an extent or else they'll lay the smackdown on you. Granted, a guy like Simmons is given much more rope than most other names at ESPN, but that's still not enough for a guy like him, who likes to say outrageous things and is used to getting away with it. I can't imagine he'll be happy coming back knowing he has to self-edit himself for fear of another punishment from his bosses, but can he make the same amount of money, get as much recognition, and get as many fringe benefits elsewhere as he does at ESPN? No way.
He's not just used to saying outrageous things, that's pretty much his job.

 
? The NBA preview is rolling out one day at a time. They've already done Philly and Utah. He said, "It's great to be back" and then started in...

 
Not to change the topic, but those Andrew Sharp "Hot Sports Takes" are parody, right? I mean, Notre Dame and the Cowboys are all that's right with football, come on.
Yes. Parody. Sharp's goal for HST is to try to write the worst sports column in the history of journalism.

The Hot Sports Takes FFA thread is of the same ilk: mock the sanctimonious among sports' talking heads and satirize their work.

 
? The NBA preview is rolling out one day at a time. They've already done Philly and Utah. He said, "It's great to be back" and then started in...
Yeah...he said at some point that each single team takes an inordinate amount of time. I'd be shocked if he wrote anything this week besides his picks column.

 
? The NBA preview is rolling out one day at a time. They've already done Philly and Utah. He said, "It's great to be back" and then started in...
Yeah...he said at some point that each single team takes an inordinate amount of time. I'd be shocked if he wrote anything this week besides his picks column.
The 76ers don't take an inordinate amount of anything

 
The fact that Simmons hasn't posted anything today makes me wonder if he's going to sandbag the rest of his contract.
I've thought about this and I'm guessing that he's been given guidance to not re-visit the Goodell thing and just move on. If he is contemplating leaving, it's probably in his best interest to keep his mouth shut about it too.

 
? The NBA preview is rolling out one day at a time. They've already done Philly and Utah. He said, "It's great to be back" and then started in...
Yeah...he said at some point that each single team takes an inordinate amount of time. I'd be shocked if he wrote anything this week besides his picks column.
The 76ers don't take an inordinate amount of anything
15 minutes of ridicule still takes at least 15 minutes to say.

 
What I love about the entire thing is that they suspended him for journalistic reasons, at least nominally. However, the suspension itself became a story. And ESPN gave their entire organization a gag order on the topic.

 
This whole thing has soured me on both ESPN and Simmons. I used to check it often, and now I don't. The whole thing is stupid. If he goes out on his own, maybe I'll find my way back to following.

 
This whole thing has soured me on both ESPN and Simmons. I used to check it often, and now I don't. The whole thing is stupid. If he goes out on his own, maybe I'll find my way back to following.
ESPN is obviously a big part of the main systems and as such could be a force for positive change. Instead they've hunkered down to protect their billions just every other major corporation and you can't help but read anything they put out with a skeptical eye.

Simmons is enormously creative and willing to criticize the biggest players in the industry and we should all be grateful to have somebody doing that. But it sounds like he #####es so much when he doesn't get what he wants that I just know that I'd want to punch him if we ever sat down and talked sports over a beer. The whininess comes out every now and then on his podcasts or when he's being interviewed by someone else.

 
This power struggle is really fascinating to watch. ESPN is tailored to reaching the lowest common denominator these days (its tv viewers) and probably doesn't care all that much if Simmons would depart. OTOH, Simmons may not be able to make $5 million annually on his own but it's always possible that something awesome could come out of an independent Simmons empire and it would be fun to see him turned loose in an unrestrained environment.
It might... I think this might be an example of Jalen's "Hold me back!" idea, though - I think Simmons might look better if we think he's straining against his bonds than if he's really set free, where we might find out that the only thing that's different is that he complains about Chris Berman, just like every other person on the planet.

 
Not to change the topic, but those Andrew Sharp "Hot Sports Takes" are parody, right? I mean, Notre Dame and the Cowboys are all that's right with football, come on.
Yes, but I still refuse to read them. Imitating something annoying is still annoying.

 
I kinda feel like this could be the end of Bill Simmons as a media entity.
When has he ever been more liked by the public?

If I was CBS or Yahoo I'd be chomping at the bit to have him lead a site that accompanies my sports site. ESPN.com is the standard. I don't even know the other sites. Simmons could make a killing just poaching a few key players from Grantland and making another site a legitimate alternative. Or at least one you have heard of which would be a big deal.

 
Does anyone else find the NBA previews unwatchable? I expected serious basketball analysis and got gimmicks and dumb videos.

Maybe my expectations were too high. :shrug:

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top