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Greinke traded.... (1 Viewer)

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/fanblogs/112137964.html

**Disclaimer: This is a rumor that has not yet been confirmed from within the organization, but I feel comfortable enough with the information and the source to publish this rumor. Please just keep in mind that this is only a rumor and should be treated as such until further notice.**

A source informed me earlier today that the Milwaukee Brewers have come to a preliminary agreement with the Kansas City Royals for a deal that would send pitcher Zack Greinke to Milwaukee.

The rumored agreement would send shortstop Alcides Escobar, center fielder Lorenzo Cain, and right-hander Jeremy Jeffress to Kansas City in return for Greinke, shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt and approximately $2M.

The extra $2M is to offset a portion of the $31M that would come to Milwaukee in the trade. Coincidentally, Betancourt's buyout for the 2012 season is $2M -- so that number could make a good deal of sense, if the Brewers have no intention of keeping the shortstop.

I had been told that the Milwaukee Brewers were originally informed that they had "no chance" of landing Greinke during the Winter Meetings, but that could have changed significantly once Greinke went public with his demands to leave the Royals.

The deal is expected to be announced on Monday.
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I'll be shocked if this is the best they can do for him.
 
Kevin_Goldstein Kevin Goldstein

Just spoke to the agent of both Jeremy Jeffress and Lorenzo Cain, says neither of his clients have been contacted by either team.

 
Please See Mine said:
4x champ said:
Doctor Detroit said:
Send that ####er to the NL please. :bye:
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:hifive: SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman

#brewers do trade for greinke. congrats to gm doug melvin, and bernie's brew crew, which had the report 1st

20 min ago
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:confused: why do you want him in the NL?
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Looks to be a good trade for Greinke owners fantasy wise. Was deciding between him and Jose Bautista as my 4th keeper in a league and this probably tips the scale to Greinke...He is in line for more wins now with run support and a better ERA since he doesn't have to face a DH. Hoping for a bounce back season and would be very happy with 15-18 wins and a 3.3 ERA.

 
What a job by Melvin building a pitching staff. It was Gallardo, Wolf, and nothing, and now it is Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum, and Wolf. Fantastic job.

Not even a darkhorse in the central anymore, I think they have to be considered among the favorites.

The good part is if they slip out of contention, the Brewers can trade Fielder and Marcum and replenish the farm.

 
Love Marcum this year. Anyway I heard some interviews with Grienke. Frankly the guy sounds like a nutjob but hey his value will only go up after this trade. Great trade for Brew Crew.

 
Samuel L Bronkowitz said:
Wow, talk about selling the farm.Cain, Escobar, Odorizzi and PTBNL? That's quite a haul for KC.Somewhere Ken Macha is saying "Screw you Melvin"
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Seriously? The Royals get 2 pitchers who have yet to develop quality secondary stuff, a potential average center fielder, and an almost all defense shortstop. Odorizzi and Jefferies do have some potential but it will take a couple years of development for each to get close to major league ready. They could have gotten more from numerous other teams so I have no idea what they were thinking. As for the Brewers, if Greinke's mind is right. They are a contender next year and push themselves into the top 3 in the Central. They did sell off their best prospects (including Lawrie) but those prospects were not all that great to begin with. The Brewers were lucky to get this deal, plain and simple.
 
boubucarow said:
Samuel L Bronkowitz said:
Wow, talk about selling the farm.Cain, Escobar, Odorizzi and PTBNL? That's quite a haul for KC.Somewhere Ken Macha is saying "Screw you Melvin"
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Seriously? The Royals get 2 pitchers who have yet to develop quality secondary stuff, a potential average center fielder, and an almost all defense shortstop. Odorizzi and Jefferies do have some potential but it will take a couple years of development for each to get close to major league ready. They could have gotten more from numerous other teams so I have no idea what they were thinking. As for the Brewers, if Greinke's mind is right. They are a contender next year and push themselves into the top 3 in the Central. They did sell off their best prospects (including Lawrie) but those prospects were not all that great to begin with. The Brewers were lucky to get this deal, plain and simple.
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I disagree on Escobar, I think he has more potential than just as an excellent defender. Not going to be a power guy, but he could approach .285-.300, And I also think the Royals got a very nice haul. But I do agree that the Brewers had to do it. That is a solid 1-4 (Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum, and Wolf).They have holes in center and shortstop now, but they still have the offensive firepower.And they still have alot of flexibility depending on how the season plays out. Trade Fielder if they are out, or keep him and get draft picks in return when he leaves. Same with Marcum.The Red Sox and Phillies got all of the attention, but they got their players because they could throw money at them. Melvin, working in a small market, got creative, and as a result, transformed his pitching staff from poor to above average. Interested to see what he has up his sleeve for SS and CF.
 
Some powerhouse rotations in that NL....although not as good as the Giants, Phils and Cardinals...the Brewers really could make a lineup miss the ball in the postseason.

 
I LOVE this move for the Brew Crew, it seems like the only chance to keep Prince is to raise revenues all around, and what better way to do that than with a contender. I don't like Dusty to deliver back to back years and I guess the Cards could be tough to contend with but I really like them with Marcum and Gallardo now. And that rotation can compete with Phily any day(I think Marcum will blossom in the NL)

 
Smack Tripper said:
I LOVE this move for the Brew Crew, it seems like the only chance to keep Prince is to raise revenues all around, and what better way to do that than with a contender. I don't like Dusty to deliver back to back years and I guess the Cards could be tough to contend with but I really like them with Marcum and Gallardo now. And that rotation can compete with Phily any day(I think Marcum will blossom in the NL)
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I think the Reds are legit, and Dusty won't be able to hold them back because they're too talented. I also don't see any way the Brewers retain Prince beyond this season no matter what the revenues are. I think the Cardinals window is just about closed. And I don't think the Brewers staff is on the level of the Phils despite this move.That said, I also love the trade for Milwaukee. This makes them an instant contender, obviously. And it's not always the best pitchERS but rather the best pitchING that wins in the postseason. Brewers now have a bunch of guys they can go to in big games and not have a HUGE disadvantage. Greinke/Gallardo/Marcum may not be on the level of Halladay/Lee/Oswalt in the grand scheme of things, but they only need to be once each to knock them out of a playoff series.PS - I love Greinke and would strongly advise getting him in as many leagues as possible for 2011
 
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The Brewers were 11th in MLB attendance last year. They play in the smallest media market in baseball and play in an area that's been hard hit economically. They're just about tapped out as far as revenue opportunities. I don't see Fielder staying either but the pitching acquisitions position them for a run with the current roster. If they fall short, Melvin will be gone anyway and it's back to rebuilding mode.

It's a grab bag of talent going to KC. Odorizzi and Jeffress are good young arms. Escobar is one year removed from being untouchable but hasn't hit anything in a year. He's had a rough winter in Venezuela. I haven't seen enough of Cain to know whether he's a legitimate CF but he seems better suited for a 4th OF role. He strikes out too much for a non-power hitter and he should lose some AVG due to an unsustainable BABIP this year.

Who knows how it'll turn out in the long run but I'd much rather be a Brewers fan today than a Royals fan.

 
Eephus said:
The Brewers were 11th in MLB attendance last year. They play in the smallest media market in baseball and play in an area that's been hard hit economically. They're just about tapped out as far as revenue opportunities. I don't see Fielder staying either but the pitching acquisitions position them for a run with the current roster. If they fall short, Melvin will be gone anyway and it's back to rebuilding mode.

It's a grab bag of talent going to KC. Odorizzi and Jeffress are good young arms. Escobar is one year removed from being untouchable but hasn't hit anything in a year. He's had a rough winter in Venezuela. I haven't seen enough of Cain to know whether he's a legitimate CF but he seems better suited for a 4th OF role. He strikes out too much for a non-power hitter and he should lose some AVG due to an unsustainable BABIP this year.

Who knows how it'll turn out in the long run but I'd much rather be a Brewers fan today than a Royals fan.
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If he's anything, he's a legitimate CF. The guy is unbelievable defensively on a team that really struggles in the field. In KC, he will have to drive the ball a little more and his upside becomes a Franklin Gutierrez with slightly more speed. His BABIP is probably unsustainable like you say, but maybe not by as much as some guys because I think his speed created at least some of that BABIP.
 
i have to say i am not a greinke lover. curious as to which greinke you think the brewers traded for; the 08, 09 or 10 greinke. cause the 2009 season appears to me more the aberration than the norm. Ks dropped by 60, HRs moved up from 09 to 10, probably closer to the norm. we can all argue league change, park change, etc. i am betting greinke is more like 08/10 than 09. add in the fact he has some issues and i think this deal will work out for KC in the end. i tend to bet against pitchers, but thats just me.

 
as a Brewers fanboy............I LOVE THIS DEAL!!!!

Escobar will be missed, Cain is depth or replacement level.

Adding Greinke to the rotation exceeds my wildest expectations, absolute perfect fit.

 
I thought they underutilized Escobar, and he's going to be a great fit in KC. The Royals already have a bunch of Cain types, so he might get lost in the shuffle if he doesn't impress in ST.

Argue the relative baseball merits of Greinke all you want, but I it's the kind of move that gets people to buy ticket packages.

 
Statorama said:
I thought they underutilized Escobar, and he's going to be a great fit in KC. The Royals already have a bunch of Cain types, so he might get lost in the shuffle if he doesn't impress in ST.Argue the relative baseball merits of Greinke all you want, but I it's the kind of move that gets people to buy ticket packages.
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There are only so many ways to utilize a guy who hits .235/.288/.326 :excited:
 
Eephus said:
Statorama said:
I thought they underutilized Escobar, and he's going to be a great fit in KC. The Royals already have a bunch of Cain types, so he might get lost in the shuffle if he doesn't impress in ST.Argue the relative baseball merits of Greinke all you want, but I it's the kind of move that gets people to buy ticket packages.
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There are only so many ways to utilize a guy who hits .235/.288/.326 :goodposting:
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BUT that does not have to be the case - in spring training last year Escobar was one of the best hitters on the club (yes I know it's not a predictor or comparable but the point was they were all facing the same pitchers) - then Macha started fooling with his spot in the order and moving him all over the place which didn't help at all. I am pretty sure he can hit 270-280 and with his speed and defense be a valuable part of the Royals lineup.
 
Statorama said:
I thought they underutilized Escobar, and he's going to be a great fit in KC. The Royals already have a bunch of Cain types, so he might get lost in the shuffle if he doesn't impress in ST.Argue the relative baseball merits of Greinke all you want, but I it's the kind of move that gets people to buy ticket packages.
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They Royals already had an Escobar type in Yuni Betancourt too.
 
Notorious T.R.E. said:
Statorama said:
I thought they underutilized Escobar, and he's going to be a great fit in KC. The Royals already have a bunch of Cain types, so he might get lost in the shuffle if he doesn't impress in ST.Argue the relative baseball merits of Greinke all you want, but I it's the kind of move that gets people to buy ticket packages.
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They Royals already had an Escobar type in Yuni Betancourt too.
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not really Betancourt had 16 HR and 2 SB - Escobar profiles for exact opposite..........and is better defensively
 
Captain Hook said:
Notorious T.R.E. said:
Statorama said:
I thought they underutilized Escobar, and he's going to be a great fit in KC. The Royals already have a bunch of Cain types, so he might get lost in the shuffle if he doesn't impress in ST.Argue the relative baseball merits of Greinke all you want, but I it's the kind of move that gets people to buy ticket packages.
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They Royals already had an Escobar type in Yuni Betancourt too.
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not really Betancourt had 16 HR and 2 SB - Escobar profiles for exact opposite..........and is better defensively
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the biggest difference between the two are their salaries. Escobar is still pre-arbitration so he's only around $500-600K. Betancourt is due $4M ($1M chipped in by the Mariners) in 2011 with a $2M buyout in 2012.
 
Captain Hook said:
Notorious T.R.E. said:
Statorama said:
I thought they underutilized Escobar, and he's going to be a great fit in KC. The Royals already have a bunch of Cain types, so he might get lost in the shuffle if he doesn't impress in ST.Argue the relative baseball merits of Greinke all you want, but I it's the kind of move that gets people to buy ticket packages.
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They Royals already had an Escobar type in Yuni Betancourt too.
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not really Betancourt had 16 HR and 2 SB - Escobar profiles for exact opposite..........and is better defensively
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BP on Escobar:
Next up might be Escobar, because good help at short is hard to find, and the Venezuelan was the Brewers' top position-playing prospect heading into his rookie campaign in 2010. The expectation of his eventual upside at the plate before the season might have been something along the lines of a fast Deivi Cruz or�dare we say it, a young Yuniesky Betancourt�as a hitter capable of an average in the .280s with 30-doubles power. Unfortunately, Escobar's rookie season was a bit of a disappointment, in that he hit just .235/.288/.326 with a .232 True Average, and his fielding performance generally graded out as adequate between nFRAA, Plus/Minus, and Total Zone.So, it was rough, but he was also a 23-year-old rookie making his way, his power was consistent with what he'd done in the minors, and turned loose, he ought to manage more than 10 steals after managing 34 and 46 in the previous two seasons. Another half-full/half-empty proposition might involve his walk rate, in that managing to top five percent wasn't Alfredo Griffin-level flailure and was better than Cruz ever managed in any single season in his career, but it wasn't good. And adapting to the majors as a fielder isn't always an overnight proposition; he could still settle in as a premium defender. The expectation for what he's capable of should be much the same as it was before his rookie season: a top glove and a bat who will produce some sock.
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That's just a snippet from the full article on the trade, but that trade makes the case for Cain, Escobar and Jeffress being solid pieces or stopgaps with Odnozzi being the prize.
Again, in those terms, that winds up looking like a fairly good package. Jeffress should star soonest, but Escobar will be starting at short come Opening Day. Cain shouldn't be too far behind when his primary competition for outfield playing time will be rented filler like Melky and Frenchy, but he'll also be contending with David Lough in-house. Manager Ned Yost is familiar with all three from his days with the Brewers, so there shouldn't be a question of whether the relatively new skipper won't like the cut of any one kid's jib, so an optimistic way of looking at the ready-now trio is that what upside they have seems that much more likely to be realized. And three or four years from now, Odorizzi might be a quality right-hander to stick amongst a left-leaning rotation manned by John Lamb, Chris Dwyer, Danny Duffy, and/or Mike Montgomery.Another, less generous way to look at it is that the Royals might only wind up with a good reliever with suspension potential, a Low-A arm not better than what they already had in the system, and two filler up-the-middle players with no real star potential. Kansas City gave up two years of Zack Greinke at $27 million, or less than he'd command as a free agent, even after a bad year, though only one season removed from the best season ever delivered by a Royals rotation regular. To be entirely fair to the Royals, he's a guy with his own past issues as far as absolute reliability beyond questions of his ability as a pitcher.
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I thought the article was pretty spot on. I lean towards the less generous end of the spectrum...
 
Wasn't Escobar considered at one time to be the next Jose Reyes? For some reason, I thought there was a lot of pop about him at the beginning of this past year and the end of 09...

 
FWIW, Fangraphs notes some bad luck Escobar had:

The main cause of Escobar’s pitiful 2010 slash line? His .613 batting average on line drives, second worst in baseball among full time players – only Carlos Lee (.612) had a worse outcome on line drives. Of the 93 balls he hit hard enough to be judged liners, he only ended up with 57 hits. The league average is around .725 in most years, and the year-to-year correlation in BA on line drives is a minuscule .015, as the results appear to be mostly random. If Escobar had gotten hits on 72.5 percent of his line drives, he’d have ended up with an extra 10 base hits, and his average would have been .255 instead of .235.
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On the flip side of Escobar's bad luck, was Cain's good luck on both line drives (.792 avg) and groundballs (.340 avg, lg average: .245) Fangraphs summarizes:
With significant improvement, Cain is in for a pretty big step back offensively in 2011. Escobar is almost certainly going to see his numbers improve, and probably by a significant margin. I wouldn’t be surprised if Escobar had a better slash line than Cain next year, in fact. Both will need to add either walks or power to their repertoire if they want to become stars, but if you’re going to bet on either of the two position players that KC acquired this weekend, bet on Escobar. Their 2010 slash lines don’t reflect their real abilities.
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Thunderlips said:
Wasn't Escobar considered at one time to be the next Jose Reyes? For some reason, I thought there was a lot of pop about him at the beginning of this past year and the end of 09...
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I never saw anything that overly optomisticAgree to a large degree with what Nortorious T.R.E found and quotedI think some writers have downgraded the trade because there wasn't a "Star" going to the Brewers, but in almost any trade for multiple prospects for an established star there is not one of the prospects viewed as an equal.Again from the Royals point of view you have to look at the pieces they already have together with all these players....Escobar and Cain will be in the lineup this year.......if not later this year then in 2012, they will be joined by Montgomery, Hosmer, and Moustakas (although there is a reasonable chance he could start at 3B in March. Jeffress will be on the 40 man roster but likely start in the minors although he could pitch so well in spring training they can't leave him behind and want him to learn from Soria and adjust to major league life right away. In late 2012 a few more mentioned will likely arrive and on Opening Day of 2013 (at the latest) you will see almost all these young Royals plus Butler and maybe Gordon and a few pitchers on the field together and grow together - at least that is the hope of long suffering Royals fans (and management)
 
Captain Hook said:
Thunderlips said:
Wasn't Escobar considered at one time to be the next Jose Reyes? For some reason, I thought there was a lot of pop about him at the beginning of this past year and the end of 09...
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I never saw anything that overly optomisticAgree to a large degree with what Nortorious T.R.E found and quotedI think some writers have downgraded the trade because there wasn't a "Star" going to the Brewers, but in almost any trade for multiple prospects for an established star there is not one of the prospects viewed as an equal.Again from the Royals point of view you have to look at the pieces they already have together with all these players....Escobar and Cain will be in the lineup this year.......if not later this year then in 2012, they will be joined by Montgomery, Hosmer, and Moustakas (although there is a reasonable chance he could start at 3B in March. Jeffress will be on the 40 man roster but likely start in the minors although he could pitch so well in spring training they can't leave him behind and want him to learn from Soria and adjust to major league life right away. In late 2012 a few more mentioned will likely arrive and on Opening Day of 2013 (at the latest) you will see almost all these young Royals plus Butler and maybe Gordon and a few pitchers on the field together and grow together - at least that is the hope of long suffering Royals fans (and management)
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I think this is a good take on things. By all accounts the Royals prospects were stacked to begin with. It's time the Royals had some good luck on these young guys coming up and we just might see that in 2012/13.This is also a much better haul than the Twins (my team) got for Santana. :bag:
 
Captain Hook said:
Thunderlips said:
Wasn't Escobar considered at one time to be the next Jose Reyes? For some reason, I thought there was a lot of pop about him at the beginning of this past year and the end of 09...
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I never saw anything that overly optomisticAgree to a large degree with what Nortorious T.R.E found and quotedI think some writers have downgraded the trade because there wasn't a "Star" going to the Brewers, but in almost any trade for multiple prospects for an established star there is not one of the prospects viewed as an equal.Again from the Royals point of view you have to look at the pieces they already have together with all these players....Escobar and Cain will be in the lineup this year.......if not later this year then in 2012, they will be joined by Montgomery, Hosmer, and Moustakas (although there is a reasonable chance he could start at 3B in March. Jeffress will be on the 40 man roster but likely start in the minors although he could pitch so well in spring training they can't leave him behind and want him to learn from Soria and adjust to major league life right away. In late 2012 a few more mentioned will likely arrive and on Opening Day of 2013 (at the latest) you will see almost all these young Royals plus Butler and maybe Gordon and a few pitchers on the field together and grow together - at least that is the hope of long suffering Royals fans (and management)
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Watched Hosmer play a bit this year.....he flat out hits.
 
Notorious T.R.E. said:
I think this is a good take on things. By all accounts the Royals prospects were stacked to begin with. It's time the Royals had some good luck on these young guys coming up and we just might see that in 2012/13.This is also a much better haul than the Twins (my team) got for Santana. :unsure:
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Santana only had one year of team control remaining at the time of the trade.
 
Eephus said:
Notorious T.R.E. said:
I think this is a good take on things. By all accounts the Royals prospects were stacked to begin with. It's time the Royals had some good luck on these young guys coming up and we just might see that in 2012/13.This is also a much better haul than the Twins (my team) got for Santana. :clap:
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Santana only had one year of team control remaining at the time of the trade.
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Deolis Guerra and the two O's relievers we got for Hardy are all that's left.
 
Notorious T.R.E. said:
Eephus said:
Notorious T.R.E. said:
I think this is a good take on things. By all accounts the Royals prospects were stacked to begin with. It's time the Royals had some good luck on these young guys coming up and we just might see that in 2012/13.This is also a much better haul than the Twins (my team) got for Santana. :bow:
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Santana only had one year of team control remaining at the time of the trade.
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Deolis Guerra and the two O's relievers we got for Hardy are all that's left.
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JACKPOT
 
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