Ground Rule Double Rule - And Babe Ruth's HR Total (1 Viewer)

[On The Rocks]

The guys on local sports radio were talking about this yesterday.

I haven't participated in many of the Bonds HR Chase threads this summer so I don't know if this has been brought up.

From the website: BaseballLibrary.com

Here are a couple of rule changes that took place during Babe Ruth's career.

1926

It is a ground-rule double instead of a home run if the ball is hit over the fence in fair territory if the fence is less than 250 feet from home plate. [6.09]

1931

A fair ball that bounces through or over a fence or into the stands is considered a ground-rule double instead of a home run. [6.09]

I am wondering if anyone was familiar with this. Or can confirm these entries on this site.Before 1926, some fences were shorter than 250? Now a short fence is 310'.

Balls that bounced over the fence before 1931 were credited as HR's?

If both of these are true.....How many HR's do you think Babe was credited with that would not have been credited to him in today's game?

 

[NCCommish]

Not a baseball guy by any stretch but it would seem to me there is probably not enough info to really say. Unless you know how many of his shots bounced over the fence and how many happened on short fenced fields. Further just because the fence was close how far did the ball travel?

Just seems like all you could do is form a guess and not a real good one at that.

 

[Snotbubbles]

In 1926 Ruth had 30 dbls, and 47 HRs

In 1927 Ruth had 29 dbls, and 60 HRs.

I doubt the short porch rule had any effect on his HR.

In 1931 Ruth had 31 dbls, and 46 HRs

In 1932 Ruth had 13 dbls, and 41 HRs.

I doubt the ground rule double rule had any effect on his HRs.

The reason being is that if Ruth was hitting a bunch of what would have been ground rule doubles, but were counted as HRs, you'd see his HR totals drop and his dbls increase. What you see from Ruth's stats are that his dbls stayed pretty consistent.

 

[Greco]

Prior to the 1920 season a walk off home run only counted towards the batters home run total if his run was needed to provide his team the win.

 

[Wrigley]

I thought the parks were much smaller today?

 

[JaxBill]

I thought the parks were much smaller today?

Generally speaking, yes, but they are also more symmetrical. A lot of the older ballparks were built in downtowns where you had to fit the park into a city block. Take for instance Shibe Park, home of the Phila. A's. The distances varied thru the years but dead-center field was much as 515! At that same time though, right field corner was only 340.http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/shibep.htm

 

[Spartans Rule]

Another interesting rule was that potential HRs were judged fair or foul by where they landed, not where they went over the fence. And balls that hit the foul pole were foul rather than HRs.

There's a book out called The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs that tried to project his hitting into modern-era conditions. I haven't read it, but it sounds interesting.

 

[The Man from Laramie]

I thought the parks were much smaller today?

Generally speaking, yes, but they are also more symmetrical. A lot of the older ballparks were built in downtowns where you had to fit the park into a city block. Take for instance Shibe Park, home of the Phila. A's. The distances varied thru the years but dead-center field was much as 515! At that same time though, right field corner was only 340.http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/shibep.htm

only 340? That's pretty far. Surely further than right at Yankee Stadium or left at Minute Maid.

 

[Knightro]

parks back in the day were built into city blocks so a lot of them had short porches in left or right while having huge centerfields. The dimensions of Yankee Stadium while Ruth played there:

RF foul pole: 296

RF bleacher: 370 (344 ft last 3 yrs)

Right center field: 429

Centerfield: 461-490ft

 

[Godsbrother]

If ground rule doubles was a big factor in HR totals you have expected other player's HR numbers to be up as well. Ruth was still out-homering most of his contemporaries by a large margin.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

There's a book out called The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs that tried to project his hitting into modern-era conditions.

That sounds about right, the balls they used back then were dead and lopsided.

 

[The Man from Laramie]

If ground rule doubles was a big factor in HR totals you have expected other player's HR numbers to be up as well. Ruth was still out-homering most of his contemporaries by a large margin.

When he retired with 714, I believe no one else had 300.

 

[Greco]

If ground rule doubles was a big factor in HR totals you have expected other player's HR numbers to be up as well. Ruth was still out-homering most of his contemporaries by a large margin.

When he retired with 714, I believe no one else had 300.

Gehrig had 378 at the time of the Sutlan's retirement.

 

[cheese]

If ground rule doubles was a big factor in HR totals you have expected other player's HR numbers to be up as well. Ruth was still out-homering most of his contemporaries by a large margin.

When he retired with 714, I believe no one else had 300.

Well, Gherig finished with 493 so that would mean he hit more than 193 homers after Ruth retired. I'm pretty sure Ruth retired in 1935 and Gherig in 1939. Point being, unless part of my logic is wrong, Gherig probably had more than 300 when Ruth retired.ETA: Greco beat me to the punch while I was typing with the exact answer.

 

[On The Rocks]

If ground rule doubles was a big factor in HR totals you have expected other player's HR numbers to be up as well. Ruth was still out-homering most of his contemporaries by a large margin.

When he retired with 714, I believe no one else had 300.

Well, Gherig finished with 493 so that would mean he hit more than 193 homers after Ruth retired. I'm pretty sure Ruth retired in 1935 and Gherig in 1939. Point being, unless part of my logic is wrong, Gherig probably had more than 300 when Ruth retired.

ETA: Greco beat me to the punch while I was typing with the exact long answer.

 

[The Man from Laramie]

then 400 I guess.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Balls that bounced over the fence before 1931 were credited as HR's?

Not sure if it was automatically credited as a HR, or if it just meant that the outfielder could climb the fence and retrieve it.