roadkill1292
Footballguy
From what I see of his quoted posts, this stealthycat fellow might have a small penis.
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Gun Control Laws - Where are we really? Where to go? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
i haven't gone through this whole thread, but I did see on the first page that the impact of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban was badly mis-characterized (thanks Tim!). It was superficial legislation that had no discernible impact on crime.
Actual Data
Actual Data
Jackstraw
Footballguy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/31/las-vegas-police-say-officer-accidentally-fired-weapon-inside-gunmans-hotel-suite/?utm_term=.45e10ab0d392
https://www.theroot.com/white-campus-security-guard-who-lied-about-a-black-man-1821450720
http://ktul.com/news/local/security-guard-charged-after-accidentally-shooting-former-tcso-sergeant-at-gun-show
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/17522884/belle-glade-security-guard-injured-in-accidental-shooting
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/security-guard-shoot-himself-accident-black-man-blame-imagine-lie-brent-patrick-ahlers-minnesota-a7948246.html
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/hotel-security-guard-accidentally-shoots-11614911
http://www.ketv.com/article/security-guard-shoots-self-in-leg-at-indoor-shooting-range-officials-said/15942124
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/371863-soldier-dies-in-accidental-shooting-at-oregon-national-guard-facility-report
Sorry only had five minutes. Have you tried the internet? It's awesome.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Is this the same polling firm that predicted Hillary would beat Trump?
Polls are very subjective based on audience, I bet they didn’t survey many people from SD,MN,ND, WI, WY, MO, I sure many were from CA, NY, IL. For the record I am not a fan of these type of guns, but I believe issue is shared with School’s lack of security, nobody’s bringing these type of guns to airports with the security they have. FBI/law enforcement needed to follow up on everyone in regards to the leads they receive. And all people need to report people with crazy behavior to the police, rather then kicking them out of their homes or putting their heads in the sand.
when I was in high school I would see at least 10 pickups in the parking lot with shotguns or semiautomatic Rifles some up to 300 mag power hanging from the back window, but no one took them out at school. Society needs some help when it comes to moral behavior.
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
I'll take things people who don't understand polling or margin of error say for $500, Alex.
jamny
Footballguy
Thank you. You seem to have firm beliefs but admitting that banning semi-auto weapons can help, even if it is just one life, is common ground. We should be looking towards common ground.
Going back to my point earlier, I think both sides can also agree that adding security of some sort, armed or not, can help as well. I haven't seen anyone here say to arm Linda the lunch lady as others have joked but even if you recommend that maybe if a teacher was former military and his expertise might be beneficial, right away someone throws out PTSD. Just because the security guard in Parkland failed, it shouldn't be used as an example of why having armed guards won't help in certain situations. The security guard in California overheard that kids plan and it was stopped. It doesn't always have to be at the moment of attack.
It seems that even when a pro-gun person comes in and gives good ideas and shows themselves to be agreeable to change, they get attacked for things they don't agree with since they don't go far enough. And no, I'm not new to the FFA obviously and having like 8 different gun related threads doesn't help but it seems like we've reached saturation on opinions and people are already starting to hold their ground and bringing up the same things over and over. Maybe less snark and less attacking and maybe look towards some common ground to have a better discussion.
I hear you.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
You can just say "I don't know how polls work or what they mean so I'm going to ignore this." It'll get your point across.
The Commish
Footballguy
Again....has nothing to do with what you replied to. But when it comes to Trump I will always take the "I'll believe it when I see it" position. I don't think he'll do anything meaningful in this area. He's certainly not going to write legislation. I don't think he's capable of writing legislation actually. Regardless, I'm pretty confident he'll follow his beloved NRA and not follow through on his
The Commish
Footballguy
All you asked for was a place where we once had armed guards that we don't any longer. Banks are the perfect example of that. Because you want to shift the goal posts doesn't change the fact HF provided you exactly what you asked for
James Daulton
Footballguy
Meanwhile the population of just Cali crushes the population of those states combined. Are we a democracy or not?
The Commish
Footballguy
We already have armed schools. Would you like to step out on a limb and put a quantifiable measure on this prediction? What standard will we use to prove "drop bigly"? What kind of quantifiable drop are we talking about here? This requires stepping out from behind your dumb talking points and engaging in real discussion. Game?
James Daulton
Footballguy
The real question is how are your likes so low? The "right leaning" FBGs among us usually like each other's posts into bigly like numbers.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I was thinking about this today, and while I am much more on the side of doing something about the guns, IF it came down to it and the only solution that we had was to secure the schools more I would rather have teachers volunteer for it. Sure he took the job, but I think part of why you see the cops reaction vs. the kids in the school and the coach is because he didn't have the emotional connection to the kids. I think it would be much better if there were teacher willing to do it or had some training in the past. I guess I am saying I would probably rather have my son's teacher/coach voluntarily training for that and doing it than Joe Blow security guy. Again, I there are several things I would prefer before turning to armed guards and teachers at the schools.Thank you. You seem to have firm beliefs but admitting that banning semi-auto weapons can help, even if it is just one life, is common ground. We should be looking towards common ground.
Going back to my point earlier, I think both sides can also agree that adding security of some sort, armed or not, can help as well. I haven't seen anyone here say to arm Linda the lunch lady as others have joked but even if you recommend that maybe if a teacher was former military and his expertise might be beneficial, right away someone throws out PTSD. Just because the security guard in Parkland failed, it shouldn't be used as an example of why having armed guards won't help in certain situations. The security guard in California overheard that kids plan and it was stopped. It doesn't always have to be at the moment of attack.
It seems that even when a pro-gun person comes in and gives good ideas and shows themselves to be agreeable to change, they get attacked for things they don't agree with since they don't go far enough. And no, I'm not new to the FFA obviously and having like 8 different gun related threads doesn't help but it seems like we've reached saturation on opinions and people are already starting to hold their ground and bringing up the same things over and over. Maybe less snark and less attacking and maybe look towards some common ground to have a better discussion.
I hear you.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/us/florida-governor-reforms/index.html
Florida is changing right now
Texas
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/health/texas-guns-school-district-trnd/index.html
Callisburg, Texas (CNN)While the nation debates whether teachers should carry guns to protect students from armed intruders, the question's already settled in one Texas school district, where educators have had firearms on campus for years.
And while no teacher in Callisburg, Texas, has been called on yet to fire a weapon in defense of a classroom, students in the Callisburg Independent School District say they feel safer knowing their teachers can protect them if the unthinkable happens.
People are demanding changes - Trump and this administration is listening and reacting where 8 years of Obama failed
Florida is changing right now
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/health/texas-guns-school-district-trnd/index.html.
Texas
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/health/texas-guns-school-district-trnd/index.html
Callisburg, Texas (CNN)While the nation debates whether teachers should carry guns to protect students from armed intruders, the question's already settled in one Texas school district, where educators have had firearms on campus for years.
And while no teacher in Callisburg, Texas, has been called on yet to fire a weapon in defense of a classroom, students in the Callisburg Independent School District say they feel safer knowing their teachers can protect them if the unthinkable happens.
People are demanding changes - Trump and this administration is listening and reacting where 8 years of Obama failed
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Okay. We can use one of your categories.
The overwhelming majority of mall security at this point is unarmed. The reasons include stuff like this idiot pulling a gun on a guy for hitting a traffic cone:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/09/08/lawsuit-mall-guards-pulled-gun-on-valley-fair-shopper-for-hitting-traffic-cone/
In fact, private security in this country is over 90% unarmed. And when armed, it's often with pepper spray.
If you're talking about armed with guns, that's a no-go in a lot of instances. Even the Mall of America had become gun free with unarmed security last I checked.
jonessed
Footballguy
I think he was just a coward. I wouldn’t need an emotional connection to a specific group of kids if I was armed and could possibly prevent their slaughter.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I don't track likes ... that's not important to me and this board is filled with liberals views and I love to talk and discuss with people who don't see things how I do
I mean good gawd how else are we ever going to see anyone elses view if we don't interact ? Its why I think its so silly to block poster - talk about head in the sand ostrich style ...
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I didn't say it would fix everything either. If it had to come down to the two choices I would probably go with the volunteer teacher is all I am saying.
jamny
Footballguy
I don't have kids and don't really know the school environment anymore, so I don't feel qualified enough to give an opinion on it. But I have read, and posted, articles where parents and teachers feel much safer knowing that there is armed security, whether it is a teacher or guard, in the school. I'm guessing there are plenty of schools where there isn't a single person qualified to hold that responsibility but there clearly are some that could.
jonessed
Footballguy
I agree. There would have to be extensive training and mental health checks, but I don’t think arming volunteer teachers is a bad idea.
timschochet
Footballguy
President Trump’s speech to CPAC, in which he repeated the NRA mantra nearly word for word, confirmed for me what I’ve already suspected for some time: the Republicans are not going to give an inch on gun control.
If we were dealing with politicians like Marco Rubio I would be more hopeful. I disagree with him about banning assault rifles but overall I think he is well-intentioned and willing to listen. If we were dealing with conservatives such as some of those in this forum like Rambling Wreck and Icon, both of whom have different ideas than I do but who are open to thoughtful argument, I would be more hopeful.
But we’re not dealing with these types. We’re dealing with people intransigent and fanatical and we’re dealing with a Republican Party unwilling to go against them because they are, frankly, cowards. If we’re going to have any movement whatsoever on this issue we have to vote Republicans out of office. I don’t see any other plausible solution.
If we were dealing with politicians like Marco Rubio I would be more hopeful. I disagree with him about banning assault rifles but overall I think he is well-intentioned and willing to listen. If we were dealing with conservatives such as some of those in this forum like Rambling Wreck and Icon, both of whom have different ideas than I do but who are open to thoughtful argument, I would be more hopeful.
But we’re not dealing with these types. We’re dealing with people intransigent and fanatical and we’re dealing with a Republican Party unwilling to go against them because they are, frankly, cowards. If we’re going to have any movement whatsoever on this issue we have to vote Republicans out of office. I don’t see any other plausible solution.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Thank you. You seem to have firm beliefs but admitting that banning semi-auto weapons can help, even if it is just one life, is common ground. We should be looking towards common ground.
we need laws that keeps mentally ill from getting all guns, from under 18 and 21 having guns that laws says they can't ... we need laws that say don't kill people
with all that, we should be good right ? you are confusing semi-auto with AR15 guns ... they're not the same. AR15 style guns are not the #1 guns used in school shootings and if they disappear tomorrow, these young people will just swap out to a shotgun or handgun right? That's ignoring the core problem.
Going back to my point earlier, I think both sides can also agree that adding security of some sort, armed or not, can help as well. I haven't seen anyone here say to arm Linda the lunch lady as others have joked but even if you recommend that maybe if a teacher was former military and his expertise might be beneficial, right away someone throws out PTSD. Just because the security guard in Parkland failed, it shouldn't be used as an example of why having armed guards won't help in certain situations. The security guard in California overheard that kids plan and it was stopped. It doesn't always have to be at the moment of attack.
oh, yeah, several people are totally against armed guards at schools read back through. I 100% disagree with them
It seems that even when a pro-gun person comes in and gives good ideas and shows themselves to be agreeable to change, they get attacked for things they don't agree with since they don't go far enough. And no, I'm not new to the FFA obviously and having like 8 different gun related threads doesn't help but it seems like we've reached saturation on opinions and people are already starting to hold their ground and bringing up the same things over and over. Maybe less snark and less attacking and maybe look towards some common ground to have a better discussion.
I hear you.
and this you are absolutely right on, its what I completely dropped one thread I was in, nothing was being accomplished at that point
Stealthycat
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I strongly object to this idea. In fact if it was ever instituted in my kids school I would pull them out. Dead serious. I think it’s a horrible idea that would cause a lot more deaths than it would save, and I would feel far less safe as a parent.
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
It is among the worst ideas ever. The fact it has been given any serious consideration by anybody is an abomination.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I 100% support that too.
I'm sorry, I've argued on this board for 6-7 days with way more time than I should have.
We all agree on early detection, but the left wants to ban certain guns or all guns from law abiding people - that is their #1 goal and only by not giving one damn inch is the response needed.
So. Now what ? Your'e not banning guns. What can we do now since we've established that? Is the left going to fight hard to block added school security? Block the min age to buy guns? Are they going to hold hostage good, positive things being done to get their way ?
It doesn't matter anyway. Guns guarding schools is picking up steam, people see gun free zones fail. Any chance the liberals had was 8 years of Obama. That's over, now we're going to do it the Conservative, gun owners way.
Will it be a massive success? failure? something in between? lets come back in 5 and 10 years and resurrect this thread and talk about it.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
jonessed
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
i'm for banning bump stocks
I can fire as fast with my thumb anyway
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/health/texas-guns-school-district-trnd/index.html
ya'll need to read this - all you anti-gunners and anti-armed guard people. Please. For the love of God its CNN
I can fire as fast with my thumb anyway
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/health/texas-guns-school-district-trnd/index.html
ya'll need to read this - all you anti-gunners and anti-armed guard people. Please. For the love of God its CNN
jamny
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I'm for raising the age to 21 on gun purchases - not that it will impact 16 year old kids stealing guns and killing people, but today's youth are proving too irresponsible and adolescent to own guns at 18
I think moving the voting age, driving age, marriage ages etc has to be looked at too. If society is losing trust in these youths, it all needs addressed
I think moving the voting age, driving age, marriage ages etc has to be looked at too. If society is losing trust in these youths, it all needs addressed
timschochet
Footballguy
I’m OK with that, but not as an alternative to reasonable gun control and spending on mental health.
jamny
Footballguy
Would the person who had the gun stolen from them be under any possible legal action if it was shown that they were negligent in securing it? Will the gun have been registered under that person?
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I think maybe I am just being too dismissive of the level of security guard that would end up patrolling our schools.
I am against forcing teachers to take this on, but I am curious if it came down to it why you would be more against a teacher or two volunteering for this duty vs. having an armed guard at the school?
jamny
Footballguy
Of course not.
Can the security guard be a fill-in substitute teacher for gym? j/k
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
Well, I am not against that idea, in theory, but Parkland had a sheriff's deputy on site as a resource officer and it did no good. The cost would be incredible, however, to have a meaningful number of armed and well-trained security people on public high school campuses all over the country. But those are practical objections.
Suggesting that teachers should arm themselves or be required to be armed is the idea that sucks.
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
A lot of young people are losing their trust in society right now.
On balance, they seem to have the better argument.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Agreed. Although, what would be your opinion of allowing a teacher that already had a conceal carry permit and taken tactical response classes to carry of his/her own free accord?
timschochet
Footballguy
Several reasons. First because a teacher’s job is to teach. A professional armed guard’s job is to protect.
Second because an armed guard in most instances has had years of firearm training. Usually they are former law enforcement officers which means they have also had training in the proper use of force, dealing with bad people, discerning between threats and non-threats, etc. in nearly every instance I would trust them more.
But honestly I’m not in love with armed guards either. I’m willing to accept them as a possible necessity because there are just too many damn guns in our society and fanatics prevent us from properly restricting them. But I am skeptical that they will be much good against crazies with assault rifles.
timschochet
Footballguy
Against.
No matter what kind of classes they’ve taken, they’re not professionals and I don’t trust them. Plus you need to listen to law enforcement on this matter. Almost unanimously they tell us that armed teachers would only make the situation more dangerous, not less. It was law enforcement who urged society to make schools gun free zones in this first place. Overall this was a good decision and they should remain so, except for professionals.
timschochet
Footballguy
In Orange County all LEO receive training at the Police Academy. It lasts about 6 months and it’s very intensive.
matttyl
Footballguy
Very small quibble, and not sure the results would have been different if worded differently, but they wanted a ban on the sale of the assault rifle in that question - not a complete ban. What I mean is that banning the sale of them will do nothing to the ~5m (or 15m, I've seen lots of numbers) in the market today.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I get you and agree.
Like I said, I am probably discounting the guards too much. If people are seriously talking about 1-2 armed guards/school in this country, isn't that hundreds of thousands of new security people that need to be hired? HTF do people think that all those will be high enough quality of people to take care of a situation like that? We need the high quality candidate for day to day policing and other stuff, so what it left?
Like you said, I don't think it does that much against somebody coming into the school with that type of weaponry and intend to kill a bunch of people.
jamny
Footballguy
I meant more in their continuing training. Do they go monthly, quarterly? So probably still at an Academy.
Just wondering if a retired police officer who became a security guard could be allowed to train on a regular basis there as a way to save money.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I’m sure that would work but how much money would it save?
Beyond the enormous costs of the guards themselves, the biggest cost to the taxpayer would be lawsuits, beginning with the first time an armed guard at a school shot a student to death by mistake.
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