*** HBO Hard Knocks 2024 *** (1 Viewer)

[sm8680]

I'm definitely not big on Joe. Free agency period he lost Saquon and one of their best defenders Xavier. I also felt like hard knocks should delved more into Xavier. I'm sure there was a discussion about not giving Xavier an offer. Personally I'd rather see a team pay a player they drafted and developed. The focus on Xavier was after he signed with Green Bay and Joe mentions he's something like the 2nd highest paid safety.

I do recall the defensive coordinator rating the need at line backer over offensive line. Go figure . Carolina over paid for Robert Hunt and then signed Damien Lewis. Now that's an upgrade to an offensive line. Overall I feel like Joe is in over his head.

 

[sm8680]

Oh and they couldn't even resign Tyrod Taylor who they wanted back. Jets offered him 18 million over 2 years. So the Giants sign Drew Lock at 5 million for 1 year.

 

[Faust]

'Hard Knocks': Giants WR coach Mike Groh wanted Malik Nabers over Marvin Harrison

 

[Snotbubbles]

'Hard Knocks': Giants WR coach Mike Groh wanted Malik Nabers over Marvin Harrison

The Giants will never learn. WR is a luxury item. You don't draft them that high. QB, OL, DL.

 

[sm8680]

If I was the Giants receiver coach I'd definitely try to endear myself to Malik by stating that I consider him the top receiver in the draft. While crossing my fingers and thinking there's no way MH jr is falling to the 6th pick.

Honestly I don't see the Giants GM and coaches making it past a season or 2. There's nothing special there plus they don't come off as if there building upon anything. They lost a star safety and RB to free agency. Gained a star LB. GM goes overboard about upgrading the offensive line and if anything he overpaid for the 2 guys he got. Nothing special. Giants aren't a destination place for free agents unless a player grew up in the area so until they get back to their glory days they will be paying more money for free agents. But then they have a nickel n dime GM.

I'm really rooting for Saquon. I'm being realistic even though it appears the Eagles will use him more in the passing game.

 

[sm8680]

Please correct me if I'm wrong I'm trying not to be harsh on the GM. In hard knocks he mentions he needs to know what he has in Daniel Jones this upcoming season. Wasn't Joe Schoen the GM who paid him that 40 million a year. If he paid him why does he come off like he's not his guy. Why is he trying to trade up in the draft. If I were the Mara's this GM would be on the thinnest ice ever and if I needed to remove more ice id have extra blow torches. If the Giants did get a QB in the draft. They'd be stuck with Daniel's contract and with fans screaming for the rookie. Could possibly be that Joe was trying to move up with minimal offers.

 

[Cheen]

Admittedly I'm a Saquon fan, but Shoen seems way in over his head. Mara had some very nice things to say about SB, and I'd guess that's where a large part of SB's loyalty to NYG lies, but SB seemed borderline annoyed to be answering a call from Joe Shoen. Can't say I blame him. Mara seems nice like a nice guy who simply cannot hire quality people around him to save his life.

Furthering the Shoen hate. The clip of the WR coach baiting MHJr into **** talking his college QB (unprofessional, but whatever) had Shoen giggling like a doggone school girl. If he had any self-awareness he'd be embarrassed. Your team and roster is absolute dog crap but you're gonna get off from one of your staff members dragging a college kid? Props to Maserati Marv for not taking the bait. He seemed to be the only professional in the room.

 

[Cheen]

I get football coaches aren't front office people and vice versa, but I thought Daboll and the new DC came off as sort of meatheadish, especially at the combine. Daboll might be a nice offensive mind but I wouldn't say he engenders any sort of culture building, leadership of men sort of aura. I think losing Wink is going to hurt them.

New York Football Giants are in ruins with no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[sm8680]

Cheen you got my inner beast going with anti Joe Schoen. I thought the Giants coaches bagging on the OSU QB as pathetic. Especially when the Giants are potentially the worst team in their division.

The Eagles will be playing with extra effort to beat the Giants. Especially for Saquon.

Weren't the Giants 6-11 last year. I'm liking what the Redskins did this off-season. Dallas should be better than the Giants. Only negative in Dallas is 4 guys playing for contracts. QB, HC, top WR and Micah.

Honestly what has been Joe Schoen's claim to fame. Well he was in Buffalo when they drafted Josh Allen. Lol

 

[sm8680]

Mara is very likable and the only guy not in over his head.

 

[Yenrub]

'Hard Knocks': Giants WR coach Mike Groh wanted Malik Nabers over Marvin Harrison

The Giants will never learn. WR is a luxury item. You don't draft them that high. QB, OL, DL.

Is a WR a luxury item in a so-called passing league?

 

[Proteus]

The Muppet Movie music had me thinking the HBO producers were trolling the hell out of Daboll and Schoen. I will forevermore think of them as Muppets now. Rolf the Dog and Gonzo maybe?

Also, I bet it's going to take a lot for other teams to agree to do this off season Hard Knocks after this.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

'Hard Knocks': Giants WR coach Mike Groh wanted Malik Nabers over Marvin Harrison

The Giants will never learn. WR is a luxury item. You don't draft them that high. QB, OL, DL.

Is a WR a luxury item in a so-called passing league?

It’s not. Nor is CB.

If you have a top 10 pick, it should be QB, OT, DL/EDGE, WR or CB. But team context matters. If your OL sucks and you’re deciding between OT and WR, take the OT.

 

[Yenrub]

'Hard Knocks': Giants WR coach Mike Groh wanted Malik Nabers over Marvin Harrison

The Giants will never learn. WR is a luxury item. You don't draft them that high. QB, OL, DL.

Is a WR a luxury item in a so-called passing league?

It’s not. Nor is CB.

If you have a top 10 pick, it should be QB, OT, DL/EDGE, WR or CB. But team context matters. If your OL sucks and you’re deciding between OT and WR, take the OT.

They seem to think they did enough regarding the OL during free agency, plus Alt was taken before their pick. So they weren’t deciding between OT and WR.

 

[Snotbubbles]

'Hard Knocks': Giants WR coach Mike Groh wanted Malik Nabers over Marvin Harrison

The Giants will never learn. WR is a luxury item. You don't draft them that high. QB, OL, DL.

Is a WR a luxury item in a so-called passing league?

It’s not. Nor is CB.

If you have a top 10 pick, it should be QB, OT, DL/EDGE, WR or CB. But team context matters. If your OL sucks and you’re deciding between OT and WR, take the OT.

They seem to think they did enough regarding the OL during free agency, plus Alt was taken before their pick. So they weren’t deciding between OT and WR.

Yes, WR is a luxury item, especially for a team with no OL or QB.

From the last episode, they apparently didn't have OL on their radar since they said if MHJ and Nabors were gone they were going to trade down with Chicago and hope to get Rome (i think that's who they were targeting in a trade down scenario). Maybe it was just editing but they didn't sound interested in Alt or Latham.

 

[Terpman22]

'Hard Knocks': Giants WR coach Mike Groh wanted Malik Nabers over Marvin Harrison

The Giants will never learn. WR is a luxury item. You don't draft them that high. QB, OL, DL.

Is a WR a luxury item in a so-called passing league?

I would say when you don't know if you have your QB, your offensive line is trash, the risk of drafting a WR and not retaining him due to the team "sucking" is higher. I would say if you have building blocks at QB/OT/CB/Edge to make, you should invest here first, WR later. In the Giants case, considering these factors, along what we know of how the GM thinks, it seemed like a luxury pick for sure to me.

 

[travdogg]

Man, I feel like I'm watching a different show. Scheon and Daboll both come off very competent to me, and Nabers was the obvious pick to make. Letting go of Barkley was the right move, though Singletary was an overpay, they could have gotten a bigger OL upgrade with that money and just drafted say, Blake Corum in round 3.

WR is not a luxury pick in any way, its arguably the most important position after QB, ahead of EDGE or OT, especially since the Giants had nothing at WR, and have a franchise LT and have invested top-10 picks at EDGE and OT in the prior 2 drafts.

If I knocked anything, and we didn't really get anything about it, the letting of McKinney (a more important player than Barkley) walk. Maybe Nubin can somewhat replace him, but he's a huge loss, as a top-5 NFL Safety.

 

[Yenrub]

'Hard Knocks': Giants WR coach Mike Groh wanted Malik Nabers over Marvin Harrison

The Giants will never learn. WR is a luxury item. You don't draft them that high. QB, OL, DL.

Is a WR a luxury item in a so-called passing league?

I would say when you don't know if you have your QB, your offensive line is trash, the risk of drafting a WR and not retaining him due to the team "sucking" is higher. I would say if you have building blocks at QB/OT/CB/Edge to make, you should invest here first, WR later. In the Giants case, considering these factors, along what we know of how the GM thinks, it seemed like a luxury pick for sure to me.

Based on their evaluations of the players in this draft, the only QB’s they thought would be an upgrade over Jones/Lock were taken 1-3. Did you expect them to go against their own evaluations and reach for JJ McCarthy or Bo Nix because they don’t have their QB?

They seem to think adding Eluemunor and Runyan was enough of upgrade to the OL (time will tell) that they didn’t need to address OL at #6

They are set at Edge with KT & the addition of Burns (they could use some depth there but they wouldn’t address that at #6.

They do need another CB, but I don’t think there was one worthy of being drafted at #6 in this last draft.

They did not have a #1 WR on the roster

Who do you think they should have drafted at #6?

 

[Yenrub]

Man, I feel like I'm watching a different show. Scheon and Daboll both come off very competent to me, and Nabers was the obvious pick to make. Letting go of Barkley was the right move, though Singletary was an overpay, they could have gotten a bigger OL upgrade with that money and just drafted say, Blake Corum in round 3.

WR is not a luxury pick in any way, its arguably the most important position after QB, ahead of EDGE or OT, especially since the Giants had nothing at WR, and have a franchise LT and have invested top-10 picks at EDGE and OT in the prior 2 drafts.

If I knocked anything, and we didn't really get anything about it, the letting of McKinney (a more important player than Barkley) walk. Maybe Nubin can somewhat replace him, but he's a huge loss, as a top-5 NFL Safety.

Popular football opinion is that RB & Safety are the least important positions on their sides of the ball.

The franchise tag numbers for those positions reinforce that opinion.

Yet the Giants are getting a ton of grief for moving off expensive options at those two positions while they are clearly in a rebuild.
I get not liking the players that they went after but the positions they went after makes sense.

 

[Terpman22]

'Hard Knocks': Giants WR coach Mike Groh wanted Malik Nabers over Marvin Harrison

The Giants will never learn. WR is a luxury item. You don't draft them that high. QB, OL, DL.

Is a WR a luxury item in a so-called passing league?

I would say when you don't know if you have your QB, your offensive line is trash, the risk of drafting a WR and not retaining him due to the team "sucking" is higher. I would say if you have building blocks at QB/OT/CB/Edge to make, you should invest here first, WR later. In the Giants case, considering these factors, along what we know of how the GM thinks, it seemed like a luxury pick for sure to me.

Based on their evaluations of the players in this draft, the only QB’s they thought would be an upgrade over Jones/Lock were taken 1-3. Did you expect them to go against their own evaluations and reach for JJ McCarthy or Bo Nix because they don’t have their QB?

They seem to think adding Eluemunor and Runyan was enough of upgrade to the OL (time will tell) that they didn’t need to address OL at #6

They are set at Edge with KT & the addition of Burns (they could use some depth there but they wouldn’t address that at #6.

They do need another CB, but I don’t think there was one worthy of being drafted at #6 in this last draft.

They did not have a #1 WR on the roster

Who do you think they should have drafted at #6?

I'm a trenches guy. So I'd definitely lean toward literally any of the OTs that were taken after Ault. Evan Neal is a bust and the guys that added, at least in my view, don't move the needle much. Had they taken Fuaga, or Latham, I believe it would have been a much better choice, given the fact their O line last year was HISTORICALLY terrible.

 

[Marauder]

It is interesting seeing the different philosophies between teams. The Giants clearly made up their mind very early in the process that if they couldn't trade up for a QB, they would take a WR. Based on what we see on Hard Knocks it doesn't look like they ever even considered taking an OL, despite that being a clear area of need.

The Chargers, on the other hand, sitting at 5 with WR appearing to be their biggest need and having a young stud LT already in the building still went for the Tackle.

Very different offensive philosophies.

 

[Snotbubbles]

It is interesting seeing the different philosophies between teams. The Giants clearly made up their mind very early in the process that if they couldn't trade up for a QB, they would take a WR. Based on what we see on Hard Knocks it doesn't look like they ever even considered taking an OL, despite that being a clear area of need.

The Chargers, on the other hand, sitting at 5 with WR appearing to be their biggest need and having a young stud LT already in the building still went for the Tackle.

Very different offensive philosophies.

I agree with the Chargers draft philosophy. I'm glad the Giants are in the NFC East. They're going to spend the next half decade trying to build their line and find a QB. The Chargers are already way ahead of them.

 

[monk]

GM is charged with building a winner and re-upping on a 27 year old RB doesn't make sense in their position. It's a very acceptable stance.

They signed a 27 year old RB to replace him.

Saquon - Older, more Mileage and more Injuries
Singletary has a 48.8% success rate on his rushing attempts, including 47.7% last season with the Houston Texans.
Barkley has a 42.5% success rate, including just 40.1% last season.

Saquon - $26m GTD
Singletary $9.5 GTD

 

[Cheen]

Man, I feel like I'm watching a different show. Scheon and Daboll both come off very competent to me, and Nabers was the obvious pick to make. Letting go of Barkley was the right move, though Singletary was an overpay, they could have gotten a bigger OL upgrade with that money and just drafted say, Blake Corum in round 3.

WR is not a luxury pick in any way, its arguably the most important position after QB, ahead of EDGE or OT, especially since the Giants had nothing at WR, and have a franchise LT and have invested top-10 picks at EDGE and OT in the prior 2 drafts.

If I knocked anything, and we didn't really get anything about it, the letting of McKinney (a more important player than Barkley) walk. Maybe Nubin can somewhat replace him, but he's a huge loss, as a top-5 NFL Safety.

The thing with Schoen that annoys me is two fold:

1) He should have let SB walk last year. I understand they were coming off a road playoff victory (over a fraudulent Vikings team) but it was pretty apparent they weren't that good of a team. Maybe Mara played a role in not letting that happen, but to treat this offseason as so much different than last offseason doesn't make sense.

2) He said a $40 million QB shouldn't be handing off to a $12 million RB. That's a non sequitur. DJones is only making that much because SCHOEN decided to pay him that much. Why a game managing (at best) QB coming off a 17 TD pass season was worth $80 mill over two years is something he can only answer. Going back to my last point, rather than tagging SB they should have tagged Djones.

 

[Yenrub]

It is interesting seeing the different philosophies between teams. The Giants clearly made up their mind very early in the process that if they couldn't trade up for a QB, they would take a WR. Based on what we see on Hard Knocks it doesn't look like they ever even considered taking an OL, despite that being a clear area of need.

The Chargers, on the other hand, sitting at 5 with WR appearing to be their biggest need and having a young stud LT already in the building still went for the Tackle.

Very different offensive philosophies.

The Chargers didn’t sign anyone in free agency that can play tackle for them. The Giants did (or at least they think they did)

 

[Yenrub]

It is interesting seeing the different philosophies between teams. The Giants clearly made up their mind very early in the process that if they couldn't trade up for a QB, they would take a WR. Based on what we see on Hard Knocks it doesn't look like they ever even considered taking an OL, despite that being a clear area of need.

The Chargers, on the other hand, sitting at 5 with WR appearing to be their biggest need and having a young stud LT already in the building still went for the Tackle.

Very different offensive philosophies.

I agree with the Chargers draft philosophy. I'm glad the Giants are in the NFC East. They're going to spend the next half decade trying to build their line and find a QB. The Chargers are already way ahead of them.

Sadly the Giants have been doing that since they last won the Super Bowl in 2011

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The Muppet Movie music had me thinking the HBO producers were trolling the hell out of Daboll and Schoen. I will forevermore think of them as Muppets now. Rolf the Dog and Gonzo maybe?

Also, I bet it's going to take a lot for other teams to agree to do this off season Hard Knocks after this.

I have no dog in this fight, and I agree with you. As I watch this show, I find myself often thinking "Gee, I can't imagine that the Giants organization really wanted that to be broadcast to the whole league." I don't know if the Giants feel like they're getting burned or not, but I would if I were in their shoes.

 

[Snotbubbles]

It is interesting seeing the different philosophies between teams. The Giants clearly made up their mind very early in the process that if they couldn't trade up for a QB, they would take a WR. Based on what we see on Hard Knocks it doesn't look like they ever even considered taking an OL, despite that being a clear area of need.

The Chargers, on the other hand, sitting at 5 with WR appearing to be their biggest need and having a young stud LT already in the building still went for the Tackle.

Very different offensive philosophies.

I agree with the Chargers draft philosophy. I'm glad the Giants are in the NFC East. They're going to spend the next half decade trying to build their line and find a QB. The Chargers are already way ahead of them.

Sadly the Giants have been doing that since they last won the Super Bowl in 2011

They should get a QB next year. Daniel Jones ain't it.

 

[sm8680]

DJ in 2022 had 15 TD passes and 7 rushing TDs. Passed for 3,200 yards and rushed for 700 yards. He tore his ACL in November 2023. I like DJ I hope he does well. Coming off the ACL injury in theory he shouldn't be as mobile as before. Also DJ and the Giants may decide to not expose himself and run as much as he had in 2022. Plus the OL was upgraded but in some eyes not to the extent that was needed. If the Giants end up getting a QB next year it will be with a new GM. I personally believe that the GM should be under more scrutiny.

 

[sm8680]

GM is charged with building a winner and re-upping on a 27 year old RB doesn't make sense in their position. It's a very acceptable stance.

They signed a 27 year old RB to replace him.

Saquon - Older, more Mileage and more Injuries
Singletary has a 48.8% success rate on his rushing attempts, including 47.7% last season with the Houston Texans.
Barkley has a 42.5% success rate, including just 40.1% last season.

Saquon - $26m GTD
Singletary $9.5 GTD

SB is older by a year. Stats are meant to be manipulated. Keep in mind Stroud is light years ahead of DJ and the Giants backup QB who played a lot last year. Texans had better receivers. Id argue a better HC and OC. Both OL were subpar. Watch what Singletary does this year. Alot of his production will depend on how well the OL line plays, DJ as well as the receivers not named Malik.

 

[menobrown]

GM is charged with building a winner and re-upping on a 27 year old RB doesn't make sense in their position. It's a very acceptable stance.

They signed a 27 year old RB to replace him.

Saquon - Older, more Mileage and more Injuries
Singletary has a 48.8% success rate on his rushing attempts, including 47.7% last season with the Houston Texans.
Barkley has a 42.5% success rate, including just 40.1% last season.

Saquon - $26m GTD
Singletary $9.5 GTD

SB is older by a year. Stats are meant to be manipulated. Keep in mind Stroud is light years ahead of DJ and the Giants backup QB who played a lot last year. Texans had better receivers. Id argue a better HC and OC. Both OL were subpar. Watch what Singletary does this year. Alot of his production will depend on how well the OL line plays, DJ as well as the receivers not named Malik.

Another thing that can be manipulated is only focusing on one aspect of a contract instead of analyzing all of it.

So sure if you cut Singletary after one year he only got $9.5 gtd. If also means you just paid $9.5m for one year of Singeltary. Presenting that as a positive hardly seems like what I’d be flexing on.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

I get football coaches aren't front office people and vice versa, but I thought Daboll and the new DC came off as sort of meatheadish, especially at the combine. Daboll might be a nice offensive mind but I wouldn't say he engenders any sort of culture building, leadership of men sort of aura. I think losing Wink is going to hurt them.

New York Football Giants are in ruins with no light at the end of the tunnel.

The whole conversation about Dabol and his 40 time underscored this to me. That may have been a 10-15 second blip in the entirety of their time at the combine, but it was presented as exactly what you mentioned: meatheaded.

 

[Grid71]

GM is charged with building a winner and re-upping on a 27 year old RB doesn't make sense in their position. It's a very acceptable stance.

They signed a 27 year old RB to replace him.

Saquon - Older, more Mileage and more Injuries
Singletary has a 48.8% success rate on his rushing attempts, including 47.7% last season with the Houston Texans.
Barkley has a 42.5% success rate, including just 40.1% last season.

Saquon - $26m GTD
Singletary $9.5 GTD

Can Singletary keep up that rate playing outdoors in a cold weather city behind that line? Who will score more fantasy points? I'm happy for Saquon getting out of NY and think he will excel with a better team around him.

 

[menobrown]

I get football coaches aren't front office people and vice versa, but I thought Daboll and the new DC came off as sort of meatheadish, especially at the combine. Daboll might be a nice offensive mind but I wouldn't say he engenders any sort of culture building, leadership of men sort of aura. I think losing Wink is going to hurt them.

New York Football Giants are in ruins with no light at the end of the tunnel.

The whole conversation about Dabol and his 40 time underscored this to me. That may have been a 10-15 second blip in the entirety of their time at the combine, but it was presented as exactly what you mentioned: meatheaded.

Maybe it’s nothing to most people, maybe I was just raised different, but I was a bit taken back with Dabol kicking back on the sofa with his feet rested on the table during high level interviews.

In the end winning cures all ails and is all that matters but it’s been really hard watching this show and concluding the Giants got the right men in place to turn this around.

Mara does seem like a great owner to work for though.

 

[Yenrub]

GM is charged with building a winner and re-upping on a 27 year old RB doesn't make sense in their position. It's a very acceptable stance.

They signed a 27 year old RB to replace him.

Saquon - Older, more Mileage and more Injuries
Singletary has a 48.8% success rate on his rushing attempts, including 47.7% last season with the Houston Texans.
Barkley has a 42.5% success rate, including just 40.1% last season.

Saquon - $26m GTD
Singletary $9.5 GTD

Can Singletary keep up that rate playing outdoors in a cold weather city behind that line? Who will score more fantasy points? I'm happy for Saquon getting out of NY and think he will excel with a better team around him.

I have no doubt that Saquon is going to put up better numbers than Singletary but I doubt weather will have anything to do with it.
Singletary spent a few years in Buffalo before going to Houston

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

I get football coaches aren't front office people and vice versa, but I thought Daboll and the new DC came off as sort of meatheadish, especially at the combine. Daboll might be a nice offensive mind but I wouldn't say he engenders any sort of culture building, leadership of men sort of aura. I think losing Wink is going to hurt them.

New York Football Giants are in ruins with no light at the end of the tunnel.

The whole conversation about Dabol and his 40 time underscored this to me. That may have been a 10-15 second blip in the entirety of their time at the combine, but it was presented as exactly what you mentioned: meatheaded.

Maybe it’s nothing to most people, maybe I was just raised different, but I was a bit taken back with Dabol kicking back on the sofa with his feet rested on the table during high level interviews.

In the end winning cures all ails and is all that matters but it’s been really hard watching this show and concluding the Giants got the right men in place to turn this around.

Mara does seem like a great owner to work for though.

Agreed. Winning cures all, but in the absence of it, these things come of as absolutely disrespectful to both the organization and the players at the combine.

 

[Da Franchise]

I get football coaches aren't front office people and vice versa, but I thought Daboll and the new DC came off as sort of meatheadish, especially at the combine. Daboll might be a nice offensive mind but I wouldn't say he engenders any sort of culture building, leadership of men sort of aura. I think losing Wink is going to hurt them.

New York Football Giants are in ruins with no light at the end of the tunnel.

The whole conversation about Dabol and his 40 time underscored this to me. That may have been a 10-15 second blip in the entirety of their time at the combine, but it was presented as exactly what you mentioned: meatheaded.

Maybe it’s nothing to most people, maybe I was just raised different, but I was a bit taken back with Dabol kicking back on the sofa with his feet rested on the table during high level interviews.

In the end winning cures all ails and is all that matters but it’s been really hard watching this show and concluding the Giants got the right men in place to turn this around.

Mara does seem like a great owner to work for though.

Between Schoen coming off extremely average (at best) and Daboll coming off as you described, I’m pretty comfortable saying NYG will need an overhaul before they matter again. The staff under Schoen also came off extremely weak and inexperienced to me. Granted, it’s only a few snips of moments in time, could be a misrepresentation, but that’s the impression I got.

 

[Dawg Pound 69]

I get football coaches aren't front office people and vice versa, but I thought Daboll and the new DC came off as sort of meatheadish, especially at the combine. Daboll might be a nice offensive mind but I wouldn't say he engenders any sort of culture building, leadership of men sort of aura. I think losing Wink is going to hurt them.

New York Football Giants are in ruins with no light at the end of the tunnel.

The whole conversation about Dabol and his 40 time underscored this to me. That may have been a 10-15 second blip in the entirety of their time at the combine, but it was presented as exactly what you mentioned: meatheaded.

Maybe it’s nothing to most people, maybe I was just raised different, but I was a bit taken back with Dabol kicking back on the sofa with his feet rested on the table during high level interviews.

In the end winning cures all ails and is all that matters but it’s been really hard watching this show and concluding the Giants got the right men in place to turn this around.

Mara does seem like a great owner to work for though.

Between Schoen coming off extremely average (at best) and Daboll coming off as you described, I’m pretty comfortable saying NYG will need an overhaul before they matter again. The staff under Schoen also came off extremely weak and inexperienced to me. Granted, it’s only a few snips of moments in time, could be a misrepresentation, but that’s the impression I got.

Completely agree that current regime won't have success. But I fear their leashes will be very long. Mara let the inept Gettleman stick around until Tisch forced him to retire as GM. So Mara will let Schoen stay longer than he deserves to. And since Daboll is the alpha of the Schoen/Daboll duo, Schoen won't get rid of Daboll. So Giants fans better get used to mediocrity.

 

[Cheen]

I get football coaches aren't front office people and vice versa, but I thought Daboll and the new DC came off as sort of meatheadish, especially at the combine. Daboll might be a nice offensive mind but I wouldn't say he engenders any sort of culture building, leadership of men sort of aura. I think losing Wink is going to hurt them.

New York Football Giants are in ruins with no light at the end of the tunnel.

The whole conversation about Dabol and his 40 time underscored this to me. That may have been a 10-15 second blip in the entirety of their time at the combine, but it was presented as exactly what you mentioned: meatheaded.

Maybe it’s nothing to most people, maybe I was just raised different, but I was a bit taken back with Dabol kicking back on the sofa with his feet rested on the table during high level interviews.

In the end winning cures all ails and is all that matters but it’s been really hard watching this show and concluding the Giants got the right men in place to turn this around.

Mara does seem like a great owner to work for though.

Between Schoen coming off extremely average (at best) and Daboll coming off as you described, I’m pretty comfortable saying NYG will need an overhaul before they matter again. The staff under Schoen also came off extremely weak and inexperienced to me. Granted, it’s only a few snips of moments in time, could be a misrepresentation, but that’s the impression I got.

Completely agree that current regime won't have success. But I fear their leashes will be very long. Mara let the inept Gettleman stick around until Tisch forced him to retire as GM. So Mara will let Schoen stay longer than he deserves to. And since Daboll is the alpha of the Schoen/Daboll duo, Schoen won't get rid of Daboll. So Giants fans better get used to mediocrity.

If I'm a Giants fan I'd find it hard to have hope given Mara's hiring since Coughlin left in 2015 has ranged from uninspiring (Shurmur) to laughable (Joe Judge + Jason Garrett)

I'd like to see Belichik brought in next year if they clean house

 

[Drake Hater]

Glad to see others agree on those Daboll interviews. Not impressive. I'm glad they didn't go QB in the draft bc it would have sucked for one of these rookies going into what looks like amateur hour.

 

[Drake Hater]

He should have let SB walk last year. I understand they were coming off a road playoff victory (over a fraudulent Vikings team) but it was pretty apparent they weren't that good of a team. Maybe Mara played a role in not letting that happen, but to treat this offseason as so much different than last offseason doesn't make sense.

After watching this show and seeing how this staff works, I keep thinking they knew franchising Saquon last season was the only option after choosing to pay Jones. They didn't want the new contract QB to be exposed immediately as not being worth that money, so they had to franchise Saquon or field absolutely nothing on offense.

And all of that while (probably) knowing that this year's draft class was much better at QB.

Like you said, they should have franchised Jones and used this year's pick on QB.

 

[monk]

GM is charged with building a winner and re-upping on a 27 year old RB doesn't make sense in their position. It's a very acceptable stance.

They signed a 27 year old RB to replace him.

Saquon - Older, more Mileage and more Injuries
Singletary has a 48.8% success rate on his rushing attempts, including 47.7% last season with the Houston Texans.
Barkley has a 42.5% success rate, including just 40.1% last season.

Saquon - $26m GTD
Singletary $9.5 GTD

Can Singletary keep up that rate playing outdoors in a cold weather city behind that line? Who will score more fantasy points? I'm happy for Saquon getting out of NY and think he will excel with a better team around him.

With Saquon it's about staying healthy ... thats been his biggest problem and it has taken a toll on him.
His speed, big plays and forced missed tackles are all waaay down from his rookie season.
He's still real talented and the Eagles O'line is still real good so if he is healthy he will put up numbers

 

[monk]

Agree about Schoen but Daboll to me looks pretty damn sharp when he starts rattling off offense plays.
I think he is going to be fine calling the offesnive plays

 

[TripItUp]

Agree about Schoen but Daboll to me looks pretty damn sharp when he starts rattling off offense plays.
I think he is going to be fine calling the offesnive plays

yeah, you can be a really smart person and great play designer/play caller that can also come off as a meathead and maybe to some extent low EQ....all can be true.

He is an interesting personality.

 

[sm8680]

I think Brian thinks too highly of himself. He feuded with Wink took play calling away from the OC. Giants D showed more last year than the O. Went 6-11. He and Joe are so on the hot seat. So, looking to forward to seeing hard knocks tonight. Because in theory it should be a fairly positive show introducing the first-round pick Malik.

 

[travdogg]

I think Brian thinks too highly of himself. He feuded with Wink took play calling away from the OC. Giants D showed more last year than the O. Went 6-11. He and Joe are so on the hot seat. So, looking to forward to seeing hard knocks tonight. Because in theory it should be a fairly positive show introducing the first-round pick Malik.

To be fair to Daboll, the offensive injuries would have sunk ANY offense. Over the course of the season, they were down to the 3rd QB, down their top rusher and pass catcher, and 2 best OL. Can't imagine any offense surviving that.

The 2022 offense greatly exceeded all expectations, and in my opinion showed Daboll to be a very good play caller. If NY dumps him after this year, he'll be option #1 or #2 on every team's OC vacancy list.

 

[Faust]

'Hard Knocks': Giants had 'a lot of conviction' when it came to drafting TE Theo Johnson

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Thought the whole Giants operation came off like a clown show—and totally in over their heads—in Hard Knocks. They seemed like they don’t have great processes for anything, and they have lots of weird personality friction bubbling right under the surface (mostly with Daboll who came off like a douche despite all the attention on their coaching staff drama last season).

In the end I came away shocked that the Giants had editorial control over the show, it came off more like a light expose of an incompetent franchise. I would know, having seen many of them written about Washington over the last two decades.

At the same time, since it was so heavy handed in how it tried to frame the situations and hold their fanbase’s hand through losing Barkley and being stuck with Daniel Jones at QB, it was also obvious that the Giants had final say on the edit.

I know those two things contradict each other but here we are. An incompetent FO (imo) tried their best to put out a propaganda piece for their fans and still ended up exposing a bunch of inadequacies (probably because their blind spot is that they even have those inadequacies in the first place, so they didn’t know to hide them).

Shoen shocked me in his projected weakness. Not sure I heard a strong opinion from him all season (other than his emotional exhaustion with the Barkley situation and the Panthers GM trying to squeeze him), and he seemed surprisingly underinformed about every player under the sun, as if he didn’t come up in the league as an evaluator himself. Very little leadership ability.

Not that it’s the biggest thing, but he has no presence in a room, and he seems anxious as hell about everything—it’s like putting Ross from Friends in charge of an NFL franchise. He was someone I liked in theory from that Bills FO but I couldn’t believe how in over his head he seemed. Constantly qualifying, capitulating, allowing. Never asserting himself or leading. And I don’t mean this in a dumbass macho “Alpha” way either. He’s just not a good communicator for how meek and indecisive he seems. You need to have one or the other, at least. Daboll was interesting in the scenes with the QB’s he had no shot to ever coach, but was otherwise kind of a doofus.

 

[Faust]

'Hard Knocks': Bears HC Matt Eberflus sees Caleb Williams rising 'to the occasion' in camp

 

[Faust]

'Hard Knocks: Training Camp with the Chicago Bears' Episode 1 recap

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