HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (3 Viewers)

[Sinn Fein]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

 

[John Bender]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

Dany gets hooked on caffeine pills the night before the final battle and collapses into Jorah's arms after singing "I'm so excited"

 

[thecatch]

Or GRRM is a grim guy showing that the westerosi as a whole have become too selfish and bigoted. The divide is too great between the rich and poor. There's a real threat out there. There are leaders who see it. There are dragons to fight it. But not enough people can see the big picture and everybody is going to die.

Everyone in westeros is distracted by petty infighting and realizes only once the walkers are at Kings Landing that they've been ignoring the true threat. Most of the best characters are overseas anyway now, right? Maybe Dany leads them back with her dragons and an army and they defeat the WW but only after Westeros becomes mostly a smoking ruin. I could see Martin doing that.

 

[Tom Hagen]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

So even a happy ending invloves a nephew banging his aunt. Sounds like Martin.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Seems like a pretty unfillable void (storytelling wise) in the North if both Jon and Stannis are dead and not coming back. Pretty much leaves only the Boltons and Bran as anyone who can do much up there. Neither have been very compelling throughout the story so far, so it'll be tough keeping interest in that area if that's the case.

From a simple storytelling perspective this may be the strongest form of evidence that Jon is still alive. If he's truly dead a gigantic section of the storyline becomes irrelevant for many viewers. Who cares what happens at the wall and with the white walkers if there isn't a primary character there to confront them? With Jon dead (and even Sam gone) there isn't a character in the watch that people are invested in and I don't see any of the Wildlings emerging as a central character on the show at this point. So you have this enormous part of the story (the series itself began with it) and no one there for the viewers to care about in terms of what it's conclusion might be.

That alone seems to me to be a pretty good reason to resurrect Snow.

On top of that you have the battle with the walkers where the Night King takes a clear interest in Jon. That clearly seemed to be setting the stage for something to occur down the road. Why do all that if you're just going to kill Jon off for good two episodes later? Doesn't make a lot of sense. In addition there was so much done with showing Melisandre's interest in Jon and her witch skills that may involve bringing the dead back to life. I realize that seems pretty obvious that she's back at the wall when Jon is attacked but again why go to the trouble of setting all that up if the plan is to just kill him off for good?

Just seems that a lot of care was done this season in particular to set Jon up for something down the road on top of everything that was done for four seasons. I'm not sure any of the other major characters who died and haven't returned had so much done to establish possible long-term importance to the story. Jon seems to be the one who does. So it would strike me as really odd to do all that and just kill him off for good. From a simple pragmatic storytelling point of view that just doesn't make any sense to me.

I needed this and I hope you're right!

 

[packersfan]

Seems like a pretty unfillable void (storytelling wise) in the North if both Jon and Stannis are dead and not coming back. Pretty much leaves only the Boltons and Bran as anyone who can do much up there. Neither have been very compelling throughout the story so far, so it'll be tough keeping interest in that area if that's the case.

From a simple storytelling perspective this may be the strongest form of evidence that Jon is still alive. If he's truly dead a gigantic section of the storyline becomes irrelevant for many viewers. Who cares what happens at the wall and with the white walkers if there isn't a primary character there to confront them? With Jon dead (and even Sam gone) there isn't a character in the watch that people are invested in and I don't see any of the Wildlings emerging as a central character on the show at this point. So you have this enormous part of the story (the series itself began with it) and no one there for the viewers to care about in terms of what it's conclusion might be.

That alone seems to me to be a pretty good reason to resurrect Snow.

On top of that you have the battle with the walkers where the Night King takes a clear interest in Jon. That clearly seemed to be setting the stage for something to occur down the road. Why do all that if you're just going to kill Jon off for good two episodes later? Doesn't make a lot of sense. In addition there was so much done with showing Melisandre's interest in Jon and her witch skills that may involve bringing the dead back to life. I realize that seems pretty obvious that she's back at the wall when Jon is attacked but again why go to the trouble of setting all that up if the plan is to just kill him off for good?

Just seems that a lot of care was done this season in particular to set Jon up for something down the road on top of everything that was done for four seasons. I'm not sure any of the other major characters who died and haven't returned had so much done to establish possible long-term importance to the story. Jon seems to be the one who does. So it would strike me as really odd to do all that and just kill him off for good. From a simple pragmatic storytelling point of view that just doesn't make any sense to me.

I needed this and I hope you're right!

He definitely could be dead. I'm not ignoring that possibility. I just think that so much was spent this season in terms of setting up Jon's seeming importance to a number of people (including the leader of the White Walkers) that having him just killed off means you spent an entire season on a storyline that you knew ultimately wasn't going to go anywhere. That doesn't make any sense to me. I also think that given the extreme interest Melisandre took in him and the connection she has to potentially bringing the dead back to life and her return to the Wall at nearly the same time Jon is killed it makes perfect sense for her to bring him back.

Of course, I also agree that all of this seems to add up pretty neatly and things are rarely neat on GoT. But if one of the most important questions Benioff and Weiss had to ask Martin before he agreed to let them bring the books to TV was Who is Jon Snow's mother, it stands to reason the answer to that is pretty important and by extension so is Snow.

Just way too many things revolving around Snow to just kill him off right now in my opinion.

 

[Buckychudd]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

Bran is the rightful heir of Winterfell, Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

So even a happy ending invloves a nephew banging his aunt. Sounds like Martin.

Targaryens always married in the family, no?If this loosely follows the war of the roses, two families unite in the end. (Albeit its lannisters and Starks in that story).

 

[packersfan]

If the plan is to have a "happy" ending (as happy as it can be in this world) it does make sense for Snow and Daenerys to end up together and rule the kingdoms together. And since this is Game of Thrones they'll end up being related and still get married.

 

[Harry Manback]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

So even a happy ending invloves a nephew banging his aunt. Sounds like Martin.

Targaryens always married in the family, no?If this loosely follows the war of the roses, two families unite in the end. (Albeit its lannisters and Starks in that story).

not always. Rhaegar married a Martel. But it wasn't uncommon

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

So even a happy ending invloves a nephew banging his aunt. Sounds like Martin.

Targaryens always married in the family, no?If this loosely follows the war of the roses, two families unite in the end. (Albeit its lannisters and Starks in that story).

when Tyiron and Sansa end up in the same place. HEY YOU ARE MY WIFE!

 

[sn0mm1s]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

Bran is the rightful heir of Winterfell, Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

I think Dany is no longer barren.

Depending on which theories you adhere to, Jon might not be the oldest Targ *******. Not only that, there would be a question of his legitimacy (assuming Robb raised him to Jon Stark and not Jon Targaryen and Robb is viewed as a legitimate king).

 

[packersfan]

Don't know what Martin has planned for the books but if we take the TV creators' words literally that Jon Snow is dead perhaps he is brought back as a different character completely.

 

[CBusAlex]

On top of that you have the battle with the walkers where the Night King takes a clear interest in Jon. That clearly seemed to be setting the stage for something to occur down the road. Why do all that if you're just going to kill Jon off for good two episodes later? Doesn't make a lot of sense. In addition there was so much done with showing Melisandre's interest in Jon and her witch skills that may involve bringing the dead back to life. I realize that seems pretty obvious that she's back at the wall when Jon is attacked but again why go to the trouble of setting all that up if the plan is to just kill him off for good?

This series loves setting up fantasy tropes and then smashing them to bits.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Don't know what Martin has planned for the books but if we take the TV creators' words literally that Jon Snow is dead perhaps he is brought back as a different character completely.

warg in Wun Wun

 

[packersfan]

On top of that you have the battle with the walkers where the Night King takes a clear interest in Jon. That clearly seemed to be setting the stage for something to occur down the road. Why do all that if you're just going to kill Jon off for good two episodes later? Doesn't make a lot of sense. In addition there was so much done with showing Melisandre's interest in Jon and her witch skills that may involve bringing the dead back to life. I realize that seems pretty obvious that she's back at the wall when Jon is attacked but again why go to the trouble of setting all that up if the plan is to just kill him off for good?

This series loves setting up fantasy tropes and then smashing them to bits.

True and I'm not dismissing the possibility Jon is dead for good. But it just seems that so much of his storyline this season was spent setting him up for something greater and more long-term and if so why do that if you're just gonna kill him dead? Seemed like the Night King spent nearly half of an episode staring at Jon and Jon staring back (not to mention what sure seemed like a pretty big deal involving his sword). From a simple storytelling perspective it just seems foolish to do all that if you're not planning a pay off of some kind down the road. If the series is set to end after Season 7 maybe we don't see Snow at all in Season 6 (like Bran) and he returns in Season 7 either as Snow resurrected or as Snow resurrected as someone/something else.

 

[Buckychudd]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

Bran is the rightful heir of Winterfell, Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

I think Dany is no longer barren.

Depending on which theories you adhere to, Jon might not be the oldest Targ *******. Not only that, there would be a question of his legitimacy (assuming Robb raised him to Jon Stark and not Jon Targaryen and Robb is viewed as a legitimate king).

Yeah, true. My assumption (obviously speculation) is that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married prior to his birth.

 

[Gr00vus]

Don't know what Martin has planned for the books but if we take the TV creators' words literally that Jon Snow is dead perhaps he is brought back as a different character completely.

warg in Wun Wun

Warg into Stannis

 

[Harry Manback]

Don't know what Martin has planned for the books but if we take the TV creators' words literally that Jon Snow is dead perhaps he is brought back as a different character completely.

I thought it was pretty obvious...

Jon Snow is dead.

Jon Stark lives.

 

[Harry Manback]

On top of that you have the battle with the walkers where the Night King takes a clear interest in Jon. That clearly seemed to be setting the stage for something to occur down the road. Why do all that if you're just going to kill Jon off for good two episodes later? Doesn't make a lot of sense. In addition there was so much done with showing Melisandre's interest in Jon and her witch skills that may involve bringing the dead back to life. I realize that seems pretty obvious that she's back at the wall when Jon is attacked but again why go to the trouble of setting all that up if the plan is to just kill him off for good?

This series loves setting up fantasy tropes and then smashing them to bits.

Not every trope. There have been plenty that he has adhered to.

 

[packersfan]

Don't know what Martin has planned for the books but if we take the TV creators' words literally that Jon Snow is dead perhaps he is brought back as a different character completely.

I thought it was pretty obvious...

Jon Snow is dead.

Jon Stark lives.

Definitely plausible and again allows all involved to say they were speaking literally when asked.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

Don't know what Martin has planned for the books but if we take the TV creators' words literally that Jon Snow is dead perhaps he is brought back as a different character completely.

warg in Wun Wun

Warg into Stannis

I could see happening.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

Bran is the rightful heir of Winterfell, Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

I think Dany is no longer barren.

Depending on which theories you adhere to, Jon might not be the oldest Targ *******. Not only that, there would be a question of his legitimacy (assuming Robb raised him to Jon Stark and not Jon Targaryen and Robb is viewed as a legitimate king).

Yeah, true. My assumption (obviously speculation) is that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married prior to his birth.

Mine, too. Of course, I'm usually wrong about everything. Sorry, Bucky

 

[Sabertooth]

Jon Targaryan lives.

 

[Thunderlips]

Martin seems to be the kind of guy that will just leave things hanging for the sake of realism. Most viewers/readers seem to have a strong desire for everything to tie neatly into a bow. I kind of hope Martin sticks with it and:

A) we never find Benjen

B) we never find out who Jon Snow's parents are

C) Snow's dead, the White Walkers swarm over The Wall, killing that whole crew and make their way South.

I

 

[Gr00vus]

Martin seems to be the kind of guy that will just leave things hanging for the sake of realism. Most viewers/readers seem to have a strong desire for everything to tie neatly into a bow. I kind of hope Martin sticks with it and:

A) we never find Benjen

B) we never find out who Jon Snow's parents are

C) Snow's dead, the White Walkers swarm over The Wall, killing that whole crew and make their way South.

I

I'd enjoy that actually, as long as whatever comes next is well written. On the other hand, if it means more chapters of other, even more boring story lines, then I wouldn't enjoy it.

 

[Mile High]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

Bran is the rightful heir of Winterfell, Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

I think Dany is no longer barren.

Depending on which theories you adhere to, Jon might not be the oldest Targ *******. Not only that, there would be a question of his legitimacy (assuming Robb raised him to Jon Stark and not Jon Targaryen and Robb is viewed as a legitimate king).

Yeah, true. My assumption (obviously speculation) is that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married prior to his birth.

Mine, too. Of course, I'm usually wrong about everything. Sorry, Bucky

Not sure the Targaryens are Mormons. Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell

 

[Thunderlips]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

Bran is the rightful heir of Winterfell, Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

I think Dany is no longer barren.

Depending on which theories you adhere to, Jon might not be the oldest Targ *******. Not only that, there would be a question of his legitimacy (assuming Robb raised him to Jon Stark and not Jon Targaryen and Robb is viewed as a legitimate king).

Yeah, true. My assumption (obviously speculation) is that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married prior to his birth.

Mine, too. Of course, I'm usually wrong about everything. Sorry, Bucky

Not sure the Targaryens are Mormons. Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell

Targaryens have a history of polygamy.

 

[Gr00vus]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

Bran is the rightful heir of Winterfell, Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

I think Dany is no longer barren.

Depending on which theories you adhere to, Jon might not be the oldest Targ *******. Not only that, there would be a question of his legitimacy (assuming Robb raised him to Jon Stark and not Jon Targaryen and Robb is viewed as a legitimate king).

Yeah, true. My assumption (obviously speculation) is that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married prior to his birth.

Mine, too. Of course, I'm usually wrong about everything. Sorry, Bucky

Not sure the Targaryens are Mormons. Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell

Targaryens have a history of polygamy.

"The dragon must get three heads" and all that.

 

[Harry Manback]

HOLY ####

Get hype:

http://watchersonthewall.com/more-casting-info-for-game-of-thrones-season-6/

Looks like we are getting Arthur Dayne (Tower of Joy!!!!)

Also, Greatjon recast? Also Wyman Manderly? (frey pie)

Brothers without Banners re-appering...LSH??!?

Season 6 could be stupid good.

 

[elbowrm]

Meh

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Snow is resurrected. He is absolved of his duties to the Night Watch. He leads an army to overthrow the Boltons, and becomes Lord of Winterfell.

Daenerys gets her #### together and brings her army/dragons to Westeros.

After battling around Westeros for a bit, everyone realizes White Walkers are biggest challenge. Jon Snow and Daenerys join forces to defeat the White Walkers.

Snow and Daenerys get married, and control the iron throne. Red Witch does some hoodoo voodoo, and cures Daenerys' barren problems. Lots of heirs follow.

Bran is the rightful heir of Winterfell, Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

I think Dany is no longer barren.

Depending on which theories you adhere to, Jon might not be the oldest Targ *******. Not only that, there would be a question of his legitimacy (assuming Robb raised him to Jon Stark and not Jon Targaryen and Robb is viewed as a legitimate king).

Yeah, true. My assumption (obviously speculation) is that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married prior to his birth.

Mine, too. Of course, I'm usually wrong about everything. Sorry, Bucky

Not sure the Targaryens are Mormons. Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell

Targaryens have a history of polygamy.

Plus, Elia was apparently too weak to breed with anymore. If Rhaegar (from a family of in-breeders) was so obsessed with prophecy and had to get another kid, marrying Lyanna is one of the most "normal" things he could do.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Arthur dayne?? For a flashback? Who cares jons dead.

 

[Thunderlips]

HOLY ####

Get hype:

http://watchersonthewall.com/more-casting-info-for-game-of-thrones-season-6/

Looks like we are getting Arthur Dayne (Tower of Joy!!!!)

Also, Greatjon recast? Also Wyman Manderly? (frey pie)

Brothers without Banners re-appering...LSH??!?

Season 6 could be stupid good.

The one you say is Greatjon is Greatjon's brother Mors Umber.

 

[PIK95]

"Sword of the Morning?"

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

Arthur dayne?? For a flashback? Who cares jons dead.

no reason for Arthur Dayne to be in it if Jon's (in all possible forms) is dead.

If they're going to do some kind of flashback involving him, I hope they show Howland Reed somehow. he may be the only one still alive with firsthand knowledge of what really went down at the Tower of Joy.

 

[Mile High]

Game Of ThronesSources have told io9 that Kit Harington — whose character Jon Snow seemingly perished in the recent season finale — has been seen in Belfast with several other members of the cast. Belfast, of course, is home to much of the show’s filming for scenes set in the North and at The Wall. Production is already preparing to start on Game of Thrones’ sixth season, so our source speculates that Harington could be making appearances as Snow — either flashbacks, or scenes showing that he survived the seemingly fatal mutiny of the Night’s Watch.

http://io9.com/one-major-game-of-thrones-character-may-not-be-as-dead-1712452372

 

[Harry Manback]

Arthur dayne?? For a flashback? Who cares jons dead.

no reason for Arthur Dayne to be in it if Jon's (in all possible forms) is dead.

If they're going to do some kind of flashback involving him, I hope they show Howland Reed somehow. he may be the only one still alive with firsthand knowledge of what really went down at the Tower of Joy.

I sure as #### hope they do Tower of Joy like this...some of the best dialogue (imo) in the books:

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.

“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.

“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.

“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”

“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”

“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”

“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.

“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”

“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.

“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”

“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.

“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.

“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.” [2]

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Wondering that while jons dead be dreams about his birth. Or that bran sees it as a tree

 

[Harry Manback]

Wondering that while jons dead be dreams about his birth. Or that bran sees it as a tree

I could see Bran "flashing back" to Ned at Tower of Joy.

 

[hooter311]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwZDq49VxRs

 

[PatsWillWin]

I honestly think everyone trying so hard to find reasons that Jon must be coming back are kidding themselves. In any other series, sure. Not this one.

 

[strykerpks]

I honestly think everyone trying so hard to find reasons that Jon must be coming back are kidding themselves. In any other series, sure. Not this one.

Why not? There was tons of speculation about it before this season. I don't necessarily think he's alive but I can understand the arguments. If the show runners decide it isn't important to their end game, that doesn't mean it isn't important to GRRM's endgame.

That's probably a cop out but I also don't remember Neds dream from book 1 as quoted above, so I'm just taking the story as it's presented to me. I'm a dummy when it comes to connecting the dots.

 

[renesauz]

Martin seems to be the kind of guy that will just leave things hanging for the sake of realism. Most viewers/readers seem to have a strong desire for everything to tie neatly into a bow. I kind of hope Martin sticks with it and:

A) we never find Benjen

B) we never find out who Jon Snow's parents are

C) Snow's dead, the White Walkers swarm over The Wall, killing that whole crew and make their way South.

I don't think this can happen unless Martin intends to have Westeros completely destroyed. If the walker get past the wall (without the dragons ready AT THE WALL), the numbers they would add to their army in the North would be far too many for Dany and her dragons to handle later.

Martin has shown he'll kill off anyone at anytime, so it's certainly possible that Jon is truly dead for good, but it really doesn't make a lot of sense from a storytelling perspective. There is not one person left in the (wall area) North who's ever had a POV chapter, with the possible exception of Reek.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

.

Martin has shown he'll kill off anyone at anytime, so it's certainly possible that Jon is truly dead for good, but it really doesn't make a lot of sense from a storytelling perspective. There is not one person left in the (wall area) North who's ever had a POV chapter, with the possible exception of Reek.

While I agree with your general point, Melissandre had a POV chapter and she's still at the wall.

 

[Mario Kart]

Winter is coming!

Does winter only affect Westeros? Can't remember the name right now but the "continent" where Dany is, do they have winter as well or no? What if Westeros is overridden by White Walkers. Do they die when the summer returns or would the land be inhabitable for them which could give rise to the houses again?

 

[Sebowski]

The next book is about winter? So snow zombies win all empire strikes back like. Then a dream of spring is like Return of the John.

 

[JGalligan]

Arthur dayne?? For a flashback? Who cares jons dead.

no reason for Arthur Dayne to be in it if Jon's (in all possible forms) is dead.

If they're going to do some kind of flashback involving him, I hope they show Howland Reed somehow. he may be the only one still alive with firsthand knowledge of what really went down at the Tower of Joy.

I sure as #### hope they do Tower of Joy like this...some of the best dialogue (imo) in the books:

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.

“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.

“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.

“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”

“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”

“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”

“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.

“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”

“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.

“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”

“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.

“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.

“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.” [2]

Damn, I forgot how badass that scene was.

I can't remember, though, wtf was up with the "Ned's wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand."

Was that because it was a flashback and he wasn't really remembering the men with him as much (outside of Howland Reed) than the key players of the whole situation?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

wtf was up with the "Ned's wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand."

Ned's having a fever dream after he's injured. The passage starts like this...

In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life. Proud Martyn Cassel, Jory's father; faithful Theo Wull; Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon's squire; Ser Mark Ryswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart; the crannogman, Howland Reed; Lord Dustin on his great red stallion.

Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man's memories, even those he has vowed never to forget. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist.

 

[JGalligan]

The only reason Beinoff and Weiss have gone all-in with the "Jon's dead, dead is dead" thing and the whole media leaks that he's not returning for more seasons is because they're throwing only-show-watchers a bone. They knew that book readers were going to lose their collective #### spouting off about how Jon was still alive and how the books more or less pointed a big, flashing frigging yellow sign towards the fact.

I don't get the people who are saying, "But they went on record and said so." Okay? So season 6 starts, Melisandre ressurects Jon and then Beinoff and Weiss bust out post-episode with ####-eating grins posting #sorrynotsorry posts on Twitter. It's like people don't believe that people would ever lie for the sake of adding a little mystery and allure to a fictional series.

Like, what are we going to do if they do this? Kill them? Lynch them?

No. We'll all laugh about it while slapping our knees and Kit Harrington will laugh about it while looking completely humorless like he's taking a #### whilst doing so and the world will go on.

Jon's not dead. In the most extreme instance, he won't be coming back in his previous body and will be in Ghost until he learns how to warg into a dragon or some shizzle. But he's not dead.