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NE 21 NYJ 7, Plays: 13 Yards: 78 Possession: 4:11.
New England Patriots at 00:37
A.Vinatieri kicks 35 yards from NE 30 to NYJ 35. D.Barrett MUFFS catch, RECOVERED by NE-J.Sanders at NYJ 35. J.Sanders to NYJ 35 for no gain (D.Barrett).
1-10-NYJ3533) T.Brady sacked at NYJ 41 for -6 yards (J.Reed).
2-16-NYJ41
3-16-NYJ41
Third Quarter
New York Jets at 15:00
M.Nugent kicks 67 yards from NYJ 30 to NE 3. B.Johnson to NE 26 for 23 yards (D.Johnson, R.Washington).NE-B.Johnson was injured during the play.
It's live anyway since it went ten yards.Also (to address Mr. Anonymous), just because there's no fumble doesn't mean there's no "turnover-ee." On a punt, a muff would be a turnover but not a fumble. (It might not technically be a turnover, but the receiving team had a right to the ball and the kicking team didn't, until the muff. So the muff acts like a turnover if the kicking team recovers.)
Yes. I hadn't even thought of this issue before. I'll add it to my mental list (along with how to treat a fumble recovery by Keenan McCardell) of issues that should be covered by a comprehensive set of rules.
My first post assumed that the OP's league had its own set of written rules. But if that's not the case, and they are just using Sportsline's rules as their own, then I agree with Brewtown. They should go along with however Sportsline scores it.
IIRC, NFL boxscores have a place that includes turnover information--regardless of what the play by play log says. HERE is a link to the boxscore from Monday's game. It lists the Jets as having 2 lost fumbles. They also had 1 pass intercepted for 3 total turnovers.Generally speaking, the role of a commish should not be to interpret how things are scored, so I would defer to your league rules. Most leagues use some sort of data set from a scoring service, so however the service scores it is the way it should be credited. I suspect that the service has scored it as 2 fumbles and 1 interception for the NE defense.
carry on with the weekly FBG's D/ST debate
Yep... here are the threads:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=213213http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=213737In the case of the Jags, Yahoo originally had it as a fumble, then took it away mid-week and updated the scoring.
I'm not going to read through all the replies, but I will say that I posted a thread about this exact situation a few weeks ago. The defense that was credited with a fumble recovery was Jacksonville, if memory serves.
Posters chimed in with opinions, and some research was done.
Basically, according to NFL rules & scoring:
1. A muff is the touching (but not possession) of a then "live" ball.
2. The player who touched it is not charged with a fumble (since there was no possession).
3. If the opposing team recovers the ball, they are credited with a "fumble" recovery (even though technically there was no "fumble").
This happened several times this year, and I'm sure in years past (since this is not a "new" rule). I think Houston had a pair in the same game, though I'm sure nobody noticed since their defense probably wasn't on anyone's fantasy squad.
Since the NFL scores it as a fumble recovery, I think you're obligated to give the points to the defense until you change your rules to specifically prevent it. After looking into the situation, I decided to leave my scoring "as is" rather than have to manually track every fumble all year long. It doesn't happen enough to warrant that type of effort.
Oh, and edit to add:
I dont understand what the confusion is. CBS scored it correctly for your live scoring. The muff is a turnover for the NE ST/D.Team A wins. Team B is begging
I dont know. Was Jacksonville awarded possession?
Kickoffs are different. A turnover only occurs when there is a change of possession. On a punt, the punting team can only recover a muffed/fumbled punt once the receiving team drops it--thus the "possession" gets tranferred once the receiving team touches the ball and then the kicking team takes possession away.On an onside kick, as Maurile explained, the kick is a mutually live ball which either team can take possession of. In the Jacksonville game, simply having the receiving team touch the ball but not control of it IS NOT a fumble or a turnover as no possession was established. Much like a forward pass--simply touching it is not enough to establish possession. If on an onside kick the receiving team catches it and makes a football move and THEN loses control of the ball, then it would be a fumble, but that rarely happens on an on-side kick.
I already answered this one. A fumble would not be credited on an onside kick because no possession was established. The only way there would be a fumble credited on a kickoff is if the receiving team caught the ball, clearly had possession, and began to make a football move (ie running upfield).On an onside kick, BOTH teams have an equal right to the football, so until EITHER team has possession of the ball there CANNOT be a fumble. Once the ball is kicked away on a kickoff NEITHER team has possession of it. It's a live ball.
There may be a distinction (and I'm looking for it as we speak). On an onside kick (ie 10 yards), players get mauled as soon as they touch the ball.On a deeper kick, no defender is harrassing the player and that may be why they deem it to be scored as a fumble.
I could not find a concrete explanation as to why the Pats play was ruled a fumble or why the Jags play was ruled a muff but not a fumble.However, I do believe that the official scorer has at his discretion the ability to score each play as he sees fit.
