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Hernandez convicted of first-degree murder; found deceased in his cell. (2 Viewers)

slow-clap for the "he didn't do anything and won't be charged" crowd
Is there such a crowd? Or are you confusing it with the "He did something, but hopefully he gets off" crowd?
Because those people are so much more noble, hoping a potential murderer walks to help out their fantasy football teams. :lol:
THis is a big thread so maybe someone did say that. I haven't seen it.

I see it more as a case of there are still people in our country that are willing to not have to have instantaneous gratification on something and are willing to let due process of the law be unfurled so that the person who is innocent until proven guilty actually gets due legal process before we slam the gavel and play judge, jury, and executioner in what could literally be a man's fate.

Its very easy to be catty and toss something out there and make it sound as if the people are saying "hey, let's not send him to the chair this morning" are just being superficial and only making their statements based on the impact it has to a fantasy football team but it is also just as easy to say that the people wanting to announce his automatic guilt, based purely on speculation and based nothing on due process of the law is based on nothing more than the opposite biases of not liking the Patriots, feeling they have something to gain if someone else's player goes to jail, or just wanting to be the guy that says "look at me. Told you so". Sounds pretty bad the other way too, huh?

I hope neither scenario is the case but if they both are, I would rather be on the side saying "I hope you guys jumped the gun in convicting him and, after being given fair due process, we find out who the true guilty parties are and that he is not one of them" much more than being on the side saying "burn the witches and who cares if he is innocent."
who exactly is playing judge, jury, and executioner? Literally no one, so please stop with this. Actual due process will be carried out by legitimate judges and juries.

The court of public opinion has absolutely no responsibility to assume innocence before guilt - in fact, it typically works the opposite. Concurrently, the court of public opinion has no teeth - it can impose absolutely no jail time, it can not levy any fines, it cannot impede on constitutional rights one iota. The only thing it can do is harm a public image, which leads to endorsements being dropped and force associates (employers, etc) to distance themselves from the accused.

At the same time, the court of public opinion reserves the absolute right to change it's mind as new evidence breaks. it's fickle like that.

 
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@HubbuchNYP: RT @Giants_101: @HubbuchNYP The fact that they didn't give Hernandez the option to turn himself in is very telling, though. That's damning.
It tells you that he was contacted beforehand and had time to consult with his lawyers. They would have given him the option to avoid the spectacle of the 'perp walk' that never bodes well in court. Basically the police, the court, the judicial system had enough of his non-cooperation. He brought this show on himself.

 
slow-clap for the "he didn't do anything and won't be charged" crowd
Is there such a crowd? Or are you confusing it with the "He did something, but hopefully he gets off" crowd?
Because those people are so much more noble, hoping a potential murderer walks to help out their fantasy football teams. :lol:
THis is a big thread so maybe someone did say that. I haven't seen it.

I see it more as a case of there are still people in our country that are willing to not have to have instantaneous gratification on something and are willing to let due process of the law be unfurled so that the person who is innocent until proven guilty actually gets due legal process before we slam the gavel and play judge, jury, and executioner in what could literally be a man's fate.

Its very easy to be catty and toss something out there and make it sound as if the people are saying "hey, let's not send him to the chair this morning" are just being superficial and only making their statements based on the impact it has to a fantasy football team but it is also just as easy to say that the people wanting to announce his automatic guilt, based purely on speculation and based nothing on due process of the law is based on nothing more than the opposite biases of not liking the Patriots, feeling they have something to gain if someone else's player goes to jail, or just wanting to be the guy that says "look at me. Told you so". Sounds pretty bad the other way too, huh?

I hope neither scenario is the case but if they both are, I would rather be on the side saying "I hope you guys jumped the gun in convicting him and, after being given fair due process, we find out who the true guilty parties are and that he is not one of them" much more than being on the side saying "burn the witches and who cares if he is innocent."
I think you are misreading the situation. First, there is no presumption of innocence in the court of public opinion. Second, I think most people looked at the evidence that was presented in the media, and made a determination that AH was involved, in some way, with a murder. Thats a reasonable assumption given the evidence we know. Its also reasonable to think there is additional evidence that may weigh on people's decisions - pro and con.

It also says nothing as to whether a DA can prove his case beyond a reasonable doubt - but from a public perception standpoint, the burden is now on Hernandez to prove to teh public he was not involved - otherwise, regardless of the outcome at trial, he will be perceived as guilty.
:goodposting:

Everyone was just expressing their opinions on the AH case. I don't understand why people get so upset about an ongoing discussion. If you are looking for up to the minute news. Twitter is much faster than FBG. ( posters here are just regurgitating stuff from twitter)

Serious question, why are all the court documents being sealed? Is it just because of the high profile?
According to ESPN, the results of the search warrants would normally be made public after 7 days. So it was essentially done to stop that info from being released to the public yet.
Thanks

 
...
I think you are misreading the situation. First, there is no presumption of innocence in the court of public opinion. Second, I think most people looked at the evidence that was presented in the media, and made a determination that AH was involved, in some way, with a murder. Thats a reasonable assumption given the evidence we know. Its also reasonable to think there is additional evidence that may weigh on people's decisions - pro and con.

...
Great post.

I was impressed early on with how many posters were open minded on his situation. It seemed like opinions were formed by the evidence that was reported, and have continued to adapt as new pieces were added.

While there have been a few extremists, all but one or two had been pretty much ignored. Of late the thread seems bogged down by people trying to tell others they shouldn't use their brains to evaluate the information coming out. As if doing so will keep AH from getting a fair trial somehow.

 
...
I think you are misreading the situation. First, there is no presumption of innocence in the court of public opinion. Second, I think most people looked at the evidence that was presented in the media, and made a determination that AH was involved, in some way, with a murder. Thats a reasonable assumption given the evidence we know. Its also reasonable to think there is additional evidence that may weigh on people's decisions - pro and con.

...
Great post.

I was impressed early on with how many posters were open minded on his situation. It seemed like opinions were formed by the evidence that was reported, and have continued to adapt as new pieces were added.

While there have been a few extremists, all but one or two had been pretty much ignored. Of late the thread seems bogged down by people trying to tell others they shouldn't use their brains to evaluate the information coming out. As if doing so will keep AH from getting a fair trial somehow.
LOL!!!!! I know, like a FBG's message board will be read by his Jury! Just moronic! Not as stupid as Aaron Hernandez, but still stupid!

Mark it down, the charge will be MURDER!.........otherwise why would have they sealed the case for the public/media.

 
slow-clap for the "he didn't do anything and won't be charged" crowd
Is there such a crowd? Or are you confusing it with the "He did something, but hopefully he gets off" crowd?
Because those people are so much more noble, hoping a potential murderer walks to help out their fantasy football teams. :lol:
THis is a big thread so maybe someone did say that. I haven't seen it.

I see it more as a case of there are still people in our country that are willing to not have to have instantaneous gratification on something and are willing to let due process of the law be unfurled so that the person who is innocent until proven guilty actually gets due legal process before we slam the gavel and play judge, jury, and executioner in what could literally be a man's fate.

Its very easy to be catty and toss something out there and make it sound as if the people are saying "hey, let's not send him to the chair this morning" are just being superficial and only making their statements based on the impact it has to a fantasy football team but it is also just as easy to say that the people wanting to announce his automatic guilt, based purely on speculation and based nothing on due process of the law is based on nothing more than the opposite biases of not liking the Patriots, feeling they have something to gain if someone else's player goes to jail, or just wanting to be the guy that says "look at me. Told you so". Sounds pretty bad the other way too, huh?

I hope neither scenario is the case but if they both are, I would rather be on the side saying "I hope you guys jumped the gun in convicting him and, after being given fair due process, we find out who the true guilty parties are and that he is not one of them" much more than being on the side saying "burn the witches and who cares if he is innocent."
who exactly is playing judge, jury, and executioner? Literally no one, so please stop with this. Actual due process will be carried out by legitimate judges and juries.

The court of public opinion has absolutely no responsibility to assume innocence before guilt - in fact, it typically works the opposite. Concurrently, the court of public opinion has no teeth - it can impose absolutely no jail time, it can not levy any fines, it cannot impede on constitutional rights one iota. The only thing it can do is harm a public image, which leads to endorsements being dropped and force associates (employers, etc) to distance themselves from the accused.

At the same time, the court of public opinion reserves the absolute right to change it's mind as new evidence breaks. it's fickle like that.
Actually, A LOT of people are. What everyone is calling "court of public opinion" is doing just that. If you have the opinion that he is guilty (and many of you do), then you have judged, based on what you know, what you think you know, and what you don't know, to be honest.

Don't misconstrue my "stance" in this. I am not saying I think he is guilty or I think he is innocent or I wish this or that. The one and only thing I am trying to remind everyone is the simply that whatever you want to classify your opinion as, only one FACT is true here and that is, by our constitution of the United States of America, the man IS innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof in that matter lies with his accuser.

 
Mark it down, the charge will be MURDER!.........otherwise why would have they sealed the case for the public/media.
While I certainly believe the charge could be murder, along with a bunch of other stuff. Why wouldn't AH just try and flee if he thought there was a possibility of that?Did he think someone else would take the fall?

Does he think his defense is just that strong?

He has to know a lot more about what they potentially found and the information they may have. Seems if he DID in fact pull the trigger he should have been more panicked than he was.

 
slow-clap for the "he didn't do anything and won't be charged" crowd
Is there such a crowd? Or are you confusing it with the "He did something, but hopefully he gets off" crowd?
Because those people are so much more noble, hoping a potential murderer walks to help out their fantasy football teams. :lol:
THis is a big thread so maybe someone did say that. I haven't seen it.

I see it more as a case of there are still people in our country that are willing to not have to have instantaneous gratification on something and are willing to let due process of the law be unfurled so that the person who is innocent until proven guilty actually gets due legal process before we slam the gavel and play judge, jury, and executioner in what could literally be a man's fate.

Its very easy to be catty and toss something out there and make it sound as if the people are saying "hey, let's not send him to the chair this morning" are just being superficial and only making their statements based on the impact it has to a fantasy football team but it is also just as easy to say that the people wanting to announce his automatic guilt, based purely on speculation and based nothing on due process of the law is based on nothing more than the opposite biases of not liking the Patriots, feeling they have something to gain if someone else's player goes to jail, or just wanting to be the guy that says "look at me. Told you so". Sounds pretty bad the other way too, huh?

I hope neither scenario is the case but if they both are, I would rather be on the side saying "I hope you guys jumped the gun in convicting him and, after being given fair due process, we find out who the true guilty parties are and that he is not one of them" much more than being on the side saying "burn the witches and who cares if he is innocent."
who exactly is playing judge, jury, and executioner? Literally no one, so please stop with this. Actual due process will be carried out by legitimate judges and juries.

The court of public opinion has absolutely no responsibility to assume innocence before guilt - in fact, it typically works the opposite. Concurrently, the court of public opinion has no teeth - it can impose absolutely no jail time, it can not levy any fines, it cannot impede on constitutional rights one iota. The only thing it can do is harm a public image, which leads to endorsements being dropped and force associates (employers, etc) to distance themselves from the accused.

At the same time, the court of public opinion reserves the absolute right to change it's mind as new evidence breaks. it's fickle like that.
Actually, A LOT of people are. What everyone is calling "court of public opinion" is doing just that. If you have the opinion that he is guilty (and many of you do), then you have judged, based on what you know, what you think you know, and what you don't know, to be honest.

Don't misconstrue my "stance" in this. I am not saying I think he is guilty or I think he is innocent or I wish this or that. The one and only thing I am trying to remind everyone is the simply that whatever you want to classify your opinion as, only one FACT is true here and that is, by our constitution of the United States of America, the man IS innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof in that matter lies with his accuser.
So you're saying we shouldn't speculate or voice an opinion? Not exactly sure what your point is.

 
At some point in this thread, there was mention that rumors of motive had been floated to radio personalities and they were unbelievable. I think that's still what I'm most interested in hearing once it comes forward.

 
slow-clap for the "he didn't do anything and won't be charged" crowd
Is there such a crowd? Or are you confusing it with the "He did something, but hopefully he gets off" crowd?
Because those people are so much more noble, hoping a potential murderer walks to help out their fantasy football teams. :lol:
THis is a big thread so maybe someone did say that. I haven't seen it.

I see it more as a case of there are still people in our country that are willing to not have to have instantaneous gratification on something and are willing to let due process of the law be unfurled so that the person who is innocent until proven guilty actually gets due legal process before we slam the gavel and play judge, jury, and executioner in what could literally be a man's fate.

Its very easy to be catty and toss something out there and make it sound as if the people are saying "hey, let's not send him to the chair this morning" are just being superficial and only making their statements based on the impact it has to a fantasy football team but it is also just as easy to say that the people wanting to announce his automatic guilt, based purely on speculation and based nothing on due process of the law is based on nothing more than the opposite biases of not liking the Patriots, feeling they have something to gain if someone else's player goes to jail, or just wanting to be the guy that says "look at me. Told you so". Sounds pretty bad the other way too, huh?

I hope neither scenario is the case but if they both are, I would rather be on the side saying "I hope you guys jumped the gun in convicting him and, after being given fair due process, we find out who the true guilty parties are and that he is not one of them" much more than being on the side saying "burn the witches and who cares if he is innocent."
I was only signaling out the poster I directly responed to, and in honesty it was tongue in cheek anyway. He stated, that he hopes Hernandez gets off on a techinicality because he just traded for him. If he really feels that way, while he probably has priorites that I think are a little out of whack - it's none of my business.

There is nothing wrong with anyone that wants due process to play out, before they make a final judgment. It's fairly obvious to me that he's involved in this mess, at the very least peripherally - but I can't blame those wanting for it to play out first.
Please don't misquote me.

I did not state that I hope Hernandez gets off if he is guilty. I simply meant that I don't think anyone here believes he is completely innocent of all charges. However, some are hopeful that his involvement is minimal.

It's a longshot, but innocent until proven guilty. And yes, most in that camp are probably fantasy owners, Patriots fans and such.

 
slow-clap for the "he didn't do anything and won't be charged" crowd
Is there such a crowd? Or are you confusing it with the "He did something, but hopefully he gets off" crowd?
Because those people are so much more noble, hoping a potential murderer walks to help out their fantasy football teams. :lol:
THis is a big thread so maybe someone did say that. I haven't seen it.

I see it more as a case of there are still people in our country that are willing to not have to have instantaneous gratification on something and are willing to let due process of the law be unfurled so that the person who is innocent until proven guilty actually gets due legal process before we slam the gavel and play judge, jury, and executioner in what could literally be a man's fate.

Its very easy to be catty and toss something out there and make it sound as if the people are saying "hey, let's not send him to the chair this morning" are just being superficial and only making their statements based on the impact it has to a fantasy football team but it is also just as easy to say that the people wanting to announce his automatic guilt, based purely on speculation and based nothing on due process of the law is based on nothing more than the opposite biases of not liking the Patriots, feeling they have something to gain if someone else's player goes to jail, or just wanting to be the guy that says "look at me. Told you so". Sounds pretty bad the other way too, huh?

I hope neither scenario is the case but if they both are, I would rather be on the side saying "I hope you guys jumped the gun in convicting him and, after being given fair due process, we find out who the true guilty parties are and that he is not one of them" much more than being on the side saying "burn the witches and who cares if he is innocent."
who exactly is playing judge, jury, and executioner? Literally no one, so please stop with this. Actual due process will be carried out by legitimate judges and juries.

The court of public opinion has absolutely no responsibility to assume innocence before guilt - in fact, it typically works the opposite. Concurrently, the court of public opinion has no teeth - it can impose absolutely no jail time, it can not levy any fines, it cannot impede on constitutional rights one iota. The only thing it can do is harm a public image, which leads to endorsements being dropped and force associates (employers, etc) to distance themselves from the accused.

At the same time, the court of public opinion reserves the absolute right to change it's mind as new evidence breaks. it's fickle like that.
Actually, A LOT of people are. What everyone is calling "court of public opinion" is doing just that. If you have the opinion that he is guilty (and many of you do), then you have judged, based on what you know, what you think you know, and what you don't know, to be honest.

Don't misconstrue my "stance" in this. I am not saying I think he is guilty or I think he is innocent or I wish this or that. The one and only thing I am trying to remind everyone is the simply that whatever you want to classify your opinion as, only one FACT is true here and that is, by our constitution of the United States of America, the man IS innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof in that matter lies with his accuser.
So you're saying we shouldn't speculate or voice an opinion? Not exactly sure what your point is.
No. Opinions are fine. Discussion is fine. I think I just may be trying to make a technical point in a forum where no one is really interested in the technicalities.

I am the instructions that come with the grill..Nobody cares because its much more fun to just get to the fun part..and that's ok.

I live in a world where I see people wronged everyday based on assumptions and drawing conclusions so I admittedly am being overly adamant about underscoring the "innocent until proven guilty" part.

But with that being said, I am willing to take a seat back in the peanut gallery and just watch from there, eat my popcorn, and enjoy the discussion from an enterntainment perspective.

 
Well, Boom went the dynamite!

Now that he has been arrested he is guilty. You dont need courts, you just need to be arrested to be convicted.

Brian Banks anyone?

 
Damn those judge, jury and executioner Patriots!
Its theire right. They likely did it because it was a financial advantage to them or maybe, just maybe, it truly hurt Bob Kraft on a level that is personal. But that is speculation on my part.

 
At some point in this thread, there was mention that rumors of motive had been floated to radio personalities and they were unbelievable. I think that's still what I'm most interested in hearing once it comes forward.
If this were an episode of Castle, it would turn out that Lloyd was going to testify on behalf of the guy who claims Hernandez shot him in the arm and face in Miami, so they whacked him. No particular reason to think that's actually it though.

 
Regarding his release............

Here's the full statement from the team:

"A young man was murdered last week and we extend our sympathies to the family and friends who mourn his loss. Words cannot express the disappointment we feel knowing that one of our players was arrested as a result of this investigation. We realize that law enforcement investigations into this matter are ongoing. We support their efforts and respect the process. At this time, we believe this transaction is simply the right thing to do."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-cut-aaron-hernandez-after-arrest-2013-6#ixzz2XKiBea9H
 
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At some point in this thread, there was mention that rumors of motive had been floated to radio personalities and they were unbelievable. I think that's still what I'm most interested in hearing once it comes forward.
If this were an episode of Castle, it would turn out that Lloyd was going to testify on behalf of the guy who claims Hernandez shot him in the arm and face in Miami, so they whacked him. No particular reason to think that's actually it though.
Semantics on a message board never ends well, but the quote was 'jaw droppingly weird. I'm expecting something out of left field.

 
Regarding his release............

Here's the full statement from the team:

"A young man was murdered last week and we extend our sympathies to the family and friends who mourn his loss. Words cannot express the disappointment we feel knowing that one of our players was arrested as a result of this investigation. We realize that law enforcement investigations into this matter are ongoing. We support their efforts and respect the process. At this time, we believe this transaction is simply the right thing to do."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-cut-aaron-hernandez-after-arrest-2013-6#ixzz2XKiBea9H
In other words, they've already convicted him.

 
It's such a big case that I think Goodell will wait until it done before he suspends him. I could be wrong but it would be very difficult to give the right suspension at this point.

Edit: Goodell waited to suspend Vick indefinitely until after his plea bargain.
I think it all boils down to what the NFL investigators learn. If they find credible evidence of serious wrong-doing in any of these cases, I could see Goodell issuing the indefinite suspension, and then waiting for the details to become clearer.
I think we have a good idea about what the NFL investigators learned about Hernandez.

Then again, the Patriots may not care about the money. They’re making a strong statement that they have no use for Hernandez, which makes us wonder what the NFL and the Patriots have learned via their own investigations regarding the murder of Odin Lloyd and Hernandez’s behavior in its aftermath.
 
I was only signaling out the poster I directly responed to, and in honesty it was tongue in cheek anyway. He stated, that he hopes Hernandez gets off on a techinicality because he just traded for him. If he really feels that way, while he probably has priorites that I think are a little out of whack - it's none of my business.

There is nothing wrong with anyone that wants due process to play out, before they make a final judgment. It's fairly obvious to me that he's involved in this mess, at the very least peripherally - but I can't blame those wanting for it to play out first.
Please don't misquote me.

I did not state that I hope Hernandez gets off if he is guilty. I simply meant that I don't think anyone here believes he is completely innocent of all charges. However, some are hopeful that his involvement is minimal.

It's a longshot, but innocent until proven guilty. And yes, most in that camp are probably fantasy owners, Patriots fans and such.
So as to not misquote you:

I really hope they forgot to read his Miranda Rights....says wishful new Hernandez owner.
 
Regarding his release............

Here's the full statement from the team:

"A young man was murdered last week and we extend our sympathies to the family and friends who mourn his loss. Words cannot express the disappointment we feel knowing that one of our players was arrested as a result of this investigation. We realize that law enforcement investigations into this matter are ongoing. We support their efforts and respect the process. At this time, we believe this transaction is simply the right thing to do."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-cut-aaron-hernandez-after-arrest-2013-6#ixzz2XKiBea9H
Kudos to the Pats.

 
I was only signaling out the poster I directly responed to, and in honesty it was tongue in cheek anyway. He stated, that he hopes Hernandez gets off on a techinicality because he just traded for him. If he really feels that way, while he probably has priorites that I think are a little out of whack - it's none of my business.

There is nothing wrong with anyone that wants due process to play out, before they make a final judgment. It's fairly obvious to me that he's involved in this mess, at the very least peripherally - but I can't blame those wanting for it to play out first.
Please don't misquote me.

I did not state that I hope Hernandez gets off if he is guilty. I simply meant that I don't think anyone here believes he is completely innocent of all charges. However, some are hopeful that his involvement is minimal.

It's a longshot, but innocent until proven guilty. And yes, most in that camp are probably fantasy owners, Patriots fans and such.
So as to not misquote you:

I really hope they forgot to read his Miranda Rights....says wishful new Hernandez owner.
Pure gold.

 

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