Hernandez convicted of first-degree murder; found deceased in his cell. (3 Viewers)

[Gopher State]

Worst SP thread ever?

no way grass hopper, this is one of the best, when this breaks lots of posters will be eating crow. This will not end well

On the money I need to go to vegas

 

[werdnoynek]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

You must have been all in for Hernandez huh? Every league you're in I'm guessing?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Meh, not really. But keep dreaming, the dream, man.

Are you F'ing serious!!?? I'm not sure you realize what you're saying there.

 

[Gopher State]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

I bet you can really get good odds on your theory in vegas

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

that reminds me -- where is that swedish fish guy to defend hernandez?

is he banned?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

you are 100% entirely correct about the innocent until proven guilty, and I in no way can state for a fact that ahern is actually a murderer.

however, what you might be overlooking is that you are currently posting on a fantasy football messageboard --- maybe you googled the site and didn't realize it, and oftentimes people on a board such as this speculate about the future of the occasional player.

I would guess this is not the first player speculated upon, and my guess is that hernandez is more of an avoid than an exploit, at this point in time.

I, however, am not a professional ff player.

I'm a FF guru, tbh. This thread stopped relating to FF after page 1. He was at the bottom of my TE rankings 2 days ago. I'm just disappointed at the blatant disregard for a fair trial. There is quite possibly a different story than the picture being painted by the media. Of course, maybe the picture being painted is the right one, which is definitely a possibility too. I'm not saying one scenario is right or wrong. I'm saying, open your minds to ALL scenarios, not the easiest one.

For the record, I own AH in zero of my 7 leagues.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Meh, not really. But keep dreaming, the dream, man.

Are you F'ing serious!!?? I'm not sure you realize what you're saying there.

Its a fallacy that our society is better off letting a thousand guilty men free, than imprisoning one innocent man.

Sure it sucks for that one guy, but society is better off with 1000 guilty people off the street. We shoudl be focused on the greater good here, not selfishly worrying that you might be the one who goes to jail. Its a much smaller price to pay than what we are currently spending/doing to fight terrorism.

And, with the added pressure of a devil-may-care judicial system, people will be bending over backwards to stay out of situations that could make them appear guilty.

Right now, criminals laugh at our system of "justice", particularly white guys with money, and know there is a better than 50% chance they can get away with a crime based on a technicality. Criminals should think there is a 99% chance they are going to prison when they break the law.

 

[moderated]

waiting for ghostguys take, he's been spot on the entire thread.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Meh, not really. But keep dreaming, the dream, man.

Are you F'ing serious!!?? I'm not sure you realize what you're saying there.

Its a fallacy that our society is better off letting a thousand guilty men free, than imprisoning one innocent man.

Sure it sucks for that one guy, but society is better off with 1000 guilty people off the street. We shoudl be focused on the greater good here, not selfishly worrying that you might be the one who goes to jail. Its a much smaller price to pay than what we are currently spending/doing to fight terrorism.

And, with the added pressure of a devil-may-care judicial system, people will be bending over backwards to stay out of situations that could make them appear guilty.

Right now, criminals laugh at our system of "justice", particularly white guys with money, and know there is a better than 50% chance they can get away with a crime based on a technicality. Criminals should think there is a 99% chance they are going to prison when they break the law.

Oh God You're one of those types. You need the big bad government to defend your "freedom" and be judge, jury and executioner of all our actions. I'm glad you threw that out there to the universe, that you're willing to be a martyr for the greater good. I'll let you take my spot!

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Its a fallacy that our society is better off letting a thousand guilty men free, than imprisoning one innocent man.

Sure it sucks for that one guy, but society is better off with 1000 guilty people off the street. We shoudl be focused on the greater good here, not selfishly worrying that you might be the one who goes to jail. Its a much smaller price to pay than what we are currently spending/doing to fight terrorism.

And, with the added pressure of a devil-may-care judicial system, people will be bending over backwards to stay out of situations that could make them appear guilty.

Right now, criminals laugh at our system of "justice", particularly white guys with money, and know there is a better than 50% chance they can get away with a crime based on a technicality. Criminals should think there is a 99% chance they are going to prison when they break the law.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world.

 

[Onions]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Brilliant satire. 10/10. Would read again.

 

[bengalbuck]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Most people who believe that everything is some kind of conspiracy are idiots. They also like to think that they are the smart ones while everyone else is stupid. But yeah, we are all "pathetic herd of cattle." You truly have it all figured out...

 

[Amused to Death]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

you are 100% entirely correct about the innocent until proven guilty, and I in no way can state for a fact that ahern is actually a murderer.

however, what you might be overlooking is that you are currently posting on a fantasy football messageboard --- maybe you googled the site and didn't realize it, and oftentimes people on a board such as this speculate about the future of the occasional player.

I would guess this is not the first player speculated upon, and my guess is that hernandez is more of an avoid than an exploit, at this point in time.

I, however, am not a professional ff player.

I'm a FF guru, tbh. This thread stopped relating to FF after page 1. He was at the bottom of my TE rankings 2 days ago. I'm just disappointed at the blatant disregard for a fair trial. There is quite possibly a different story than the picture being painted by the media. Of course, maybe the picture being painted is the right one, which is definitely a possibility too. I'm not saying one scenario is right or wrong. I'm saying, open your minds to ALL scenarios, not the easiest one.

For the record, I own AH in zero of my 7 leagues.

Wait, when did he go to trial?

Jeremy Schaap just said (on ESPNews) it could take years to go trial.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

you are 100% entirely correct about the innocent until proven guilty, and I in no way can state for a fact that ahern is actually a murderer.

however, what you might be overlooking is that you are currently posting on a fantasy football messageboard --- maybe you googled the site and didn't realize it, and oftentimes people on a board such as this speculate about the future of the occasional player.

I would guess this is not the first player speculated upon, and my guess is that hernandez is more of an avoid than an exploit, at this point in time.

I, however, am not a professional ff player.

I'm a FF guru, tbh. This thread stopped relating to FF after page 1. He was at the bottom of my TE rankings 2 days ago. I'm just disappointed at the blatant disregard for a fair trial. There is quite possibly a different story than the picture being painted by the media. Of course, maybe the picture being painted is the right one, which is definitely a possibility too. I'm not saying one scenario is right or wrong. I'm saying, open your minds to ALL scenarios, not the easiest one.

For the record, I own AH in zero of my 7 leagues.

Wait, when did he go to trial?

Jeremy Schaap just said (on ESPNews) it could take years to go trial.

Until then you are not to have, desire or express an opinion on the matter, you low-intelligence farm animal!

 

[Amused to Death]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

you are 100% entirely correct about the innocent until proven guilty, and I in no way can state for a fact that ahern is actually a murderer.

however, what you might be overlooking is that you are currently posting on a fantasy football messageboard --- maybe you googled the site and didn't realize it, and oftentimes people on a board such as this speculate about the future of the occasional player.

I would guess this is not the first player speculated upon, and my guess is that hernandez is more of an avoid than an exploit, at this point in time.

I, however, am not a professional ff player.

I'm a FF guru, tbh. This thread stopped relating to FF after page 1. He was at the bottom of my TE rankings 2 days ago. I'm just disappointed at the blatant disregard for a fair trial. There is quite possibly a different story than the picture being painted by the media. Of course, maybe the picture being painted is the right one, which is definitely a possibility too. I'm not saying one scenario is right or wrong. I'm saying, open your minds to ALL scenarios, not the easiest one.

For the record, I own AH in zero of my 7 leagues.

Wait, when did he go to trial?

Jeremy Schaap just said (on ESPNews) it could take years to go trial.

Until then you are not to have, desire or express an opinion on the matter, you low-intelligence farm animal!

Sorry. Now I feel shame.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

you are 100% entirely correct about the innocent until proven guilty, and I in no way can state for a fact that ahern is actually a murderer.

however, what you might be overlooking is that you are currently posting on a fantasy football messageboard --- maybe you googled the site and didn't realize it, and oftentimes people on a board such as this speculate about the future of the occasional player.

I would guess this is not the first player speculated upon, and my guess is that hernandez is more of an avoid than an exploit, at this point in time.

I, however, am not a professional ff player.

I'm a FF guru, tbh. This thread stopped relating to FF after page 1. He was at the bottom of my TE rankings 2 days ago. I'm just disappointed at the blatant disregard for a fair trial. There is quite possibly a different story than the picture being painted by the media. Of course, maybe the picture being painted is the right one, which is definitely a possibility too. I'm not saying one scenario is right or wrong. I'm saying, open your minds to ALL scenarios, not the easiest one.

For the record, I own AH in zero of my 7 leagues.

The picture wasn't painted by the media ... but by the statements of the Bristol County DA.

 

[KCitons]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

you are 100% entirely correct about the innocent until proven guilty, and I in no way can state for a fact that ahern is actually a murderer.

however, what you might be overlooking is that you are currently posting on a fantasy football messageboard --- maybe you googled the site and didn't realize it, and oftentimes people on a board such as this speculate about the future of the occasional player.

I would guess this is not the first player speculated upon, and my guess is that hernandez is more of an avoid than an exploit, at this point in time.

I, however, am not a professional ff player.

I'm a FF guru, tbh. This thread stopped relating to FF after page 1. He was at the bottom of my TE rankings 2 days ago. I'm just disappointed at the blatant disregard for a fair trial. There is quite possibly a different story than the picture being painted by the media. Of course, maybe the picture being painted is the right one, which is definitely a possibility too. I'm not saying one scenario is right or wrong. I'm saying, open your minds to ALL scenarios, not the easiest one.

For the record, I own AH in zero of my 7 leagues.

I'm not following the picture painted by the media. I'm following the story painted by the Bristol County District Attorney.

Edit: Dickie beat me. (lol)

 

[BigJim®]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

That plausible scenario 'justifies his innocence' in your opinion?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Most people who believe that everything is some kind of conspiracy are idiots. They also like to think that they are the smart ones while everyone else is stupid. But yeah, we are all "pathetic herd of cattle." You truly have it all figured out...

So while I just called the majority of posters in here a "pathetic herd of cattle" you, while trying to dispute me, actually call that same group of people, "idiots". I think you just proved my point.

Do you realize that if you believe AH is guilty of conspiring to murder, your belief is in fact, believing in "some kind of conspiracy"?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Most people who believe that everything is some kind of conspiracy are idiots. They also like to think that they are the smart ones while everyone else is stupid. But yeah, we are all "pathetic herd of cattle." You truly have it all figured out...

So while I just called the majority of posters in here a "pathetic herd of cattle" you, while trying to dispute me, actually call that same group of people, "idiots". I think you just proved my point.

Do you realize that if you believe AH is guilty of conspiring to murder, your belief is in fact, believing in "some kind of conspiracy"?

dude, I don't know if this is trolling, or whatever, but while you have a very valid point -- the guy is obviously guilty if the evidence presented is legit.

maybe at trial we find out it was all made up, but in the meantime I will speculate that he is guilty.

but, don't worry -- I have no plans to incarcerate him.

btw, oj also did it.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

you are 100% entirely correct about the innocent until proven guilty, and I in no way can state for a fact that ahern is actually a murderer.

however, what you might be overlooking is that you are currently posting on a fantasy football messageboard --- maybe you googled the site and didn't realize it, and oftentimes people on a board such as this speculate about the future of the occasional player.

I would guess this is not the first player speculated upon, and my guess is that hernandez is more of an avoid than an exploit, at this point in time.

I, however, am not a professional ff player.

I'm a FF guru, tbh. This thread stopped relating to FF after page 1. He was at the bottom of my TE rankings 2 days ago. I'm just disappointed at the blatant disregard for a fair trial. There is quite possibly a different story than the picture being painted by the media. Of course, maybe the picture being painted is the right one, which is definitely a possibility too. I'm not saying one scenario is right or wrong. I'm saying, open your minds to ALL scenarios, not the easiest one.

For the record, I own AH in zero of my 7 leagues.

The picture wasn't painted by the media ... but by the statements of the Bristol County DA.

Really? They've officially released all of the evidence? I thought the information distributed so far has been mostly leaks and rumors. I also don't recall hearing anything of value from the defendant. I think the picture being painted is one dimensional.

 

[KCitons]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

you are 100% entirely correct about the innocent until proven guilty, and I in no way can state for a fact that ahern is actually a murderer.

however, what you might be overlooking is that you are currently posting on a fantasy football messageboard --- maybe you googled the site and didn't realize it, and oftentimes people on a board such as this speculate about the future of the occasional player.

I would guess this is not the first player speculated upon, and my guess is that hernandez is more of an avoid than an exploit, at this point in time.

I, however, am not a professional ff player.

I'm a FF guru, tbh. This thread stopped relating to FF after page 1. He was at the bottom of my TE rankings 2 days ago. I'm just disappointed at the blatant disregard for a fair trial. There is quite possibly a different story than the picture being painted by the media. Of course, maybe the picture being painted is the right one, which is definitely a possibility too. I'm not saying one scenario is right or wrong. I'm saying, open your minds to ALL scenarios, not the easiest one.

For the record, I own AH in zero of my 7 leagues.

The picture wasn't painted by the media ... but by the statements of the Bristol County DA.

Really? They've officially released all of the evidence? I thought the information distributed so far has been mostly leaks and rumors. I also don't recall hearing anything of value from the defendant. I think the picture being painted is one dimensional.

I heard from the defense team. They asked the judge to place a gag order on the case. All these facts were making the defendant look guilty and they don't want any more facts released.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Most people who believe that everything is some kind of conspiracy are idiots. They also like to think that they are the smart ones while everyone else is stupid. But yeah, we are all "pathetic herd of cattle." You truly have it all figured out...

So while I just called the majority of posters in here a "pathetic herd of cattle" you, while trying to dispute me, actually call that same group of people, "idiots". I think you just proved my point.

Do you realize that if you believe AH is guilty of conspiring to murder, your belief is in fact, believing in "some kind of conspiracy"?

dude, I don't know if this is trolling, or whatever, but while you have a very valid point -- the guy is obviously guilty if the evidence presented is legit.

maybe at trial we find out it was all made up, but in the meantime I will speculate that he is guilty.

but, don't worry -- I have no plans to incarcerate him.

btw, oj also did it.

I'm not trolling and it's fine to speculate. I'm speaking directly to the posters who are violently adamant that their views - which are inferred by the leaked info - are the "right" view.

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

So one more time for clarity, my point in prodding was to pick a fight with those who are violently adamant they know the truth without even hearing/seeing all the evidence.

 

[jurb26]

Wait, the guy saying people who think AH is guilty are conspericy theorist. Yet he is claiming AH is a victim of a set up or.... Conspericy.

That is rich.

 

[Raider Nation]

I thought the information distributed so far has been mostly leaks and rumors.

I'm not sure you watched the same thing as the rest of us today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TENA8DauYvA

They pretty much mapped out his exact route and actions.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Most people who believe that everything is some kind of conspiracy are idiots. They also like to think that they are the smart ones while everyone else is stupid. But yeah, we are all "pathetic herd of cattle." You truly have it all figured out...

So while I just called the majority of posters in here a "pathetic herd of cattle" you, while trying to dispute me, actually call that same group of people, "idiots". I think you just proved my point.

Do you realize that if you believe AH is guilty of conspiring to murder, your belief is in fact, believing in "some kind of conspiracy"?

dude, I don't know if this is trolling, or whatever, but while you have a very valid point -- the guy is obviously guilty if the evidence presented is legit.

maybe at trial we find out it was all made up, but in the meantime I will speculate that he is guilty.

but, don't worry -- I have no plans to incarcerate him.

btw, oj also did it.

I'm not trolling and it's fine to speculate. I'm speaking directly to the posters who are violently adamant that their views - which are inferred by the leaked info - are the "right" view.

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

So one more time for clarity, my point in prodding was to pick a fight with those who are violently adamant they know the truth without even hearing/seeing all the evidence.

The evidence is too good so he's been framed. That's some crazya$$ logic.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Wait, the guy saying people who think AH is guilty are conspericy theorist. Yet he is claiming AH is a victim of a set up or.... Conspericy.

That is rich.

I made no such claim. I used that as one (of many) plausible scenarios.

Do you recognize how quick you came to the conclusion that I'm banging the desk that AH was setup? You selectively remembered a small portion of my post and used that to come to a faulty conclusion.

 

[ghostguy123]

I'm not trolling and it's fine to speculate. I'm speaking directly to the posters who are violently adamant that their views - which are inferred by the leaked info - are the "right" view.

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

So one more time for clarity, my point in prodding was to pick a fight with those who are violently adamant they know the truth without even hearing/seeing all the evidence.

The evidence is too good so he's been framed. That's some crazy### logic.

None of us "know" anything. But knowing his guilt/involvement in this case is like saying we know the sun will come up tomorrow. I mean, we don't KNOW it will, but it's pretty likely.

Obvious evidence usually means stupid culprit. Does anything about anything Hernandez has ever done stroke you as "intelligent"?

I was all about the possibilities of him not having direct involvement in the murder, but I at least knew he had at teh very least some involvement in covering it up.

I also think it's still possible he is found not guilty. OJ case taught me anything is possible with good lawyers.

But to say it's more likely that he was framed is even too crazy of an idea for ME.

 

[jurb26]

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

These are you words not mine.And this from you're earlier post.

In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

 

[MAC_32]

A lot of dumb going on in here.

Knock it off?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

These are you words not mine.

And now Captain Obvious has joined the assault. Welcome, Captain. It's been a long time.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

The damaging evidence was not "leaked." It was described in open court to a judge. It is compelling. Hernandez is almost certainly guilty of murder.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is improperly understood by some.

There are two kinds of innocence: legal innocence and factual innocence. "Innocent until proven guilty" applies only to legal innocence.

When you murder someone, you're still legally innocent until you're finally convicted. But you lose your factual innocence immediately upon pulling the trigger.

It is not a violation of the "innocent until proven guilty" principle to say that even though he is legally innocent for the time being, Aaron Hernandez very likely killed a man.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Most people who believe that everything is some kind of conspiracy are idiots. They also like to think that they are the smart ones while everyone else is stupid. But yeah, we are all "pathetic herd of cattle." You truly have it all figured out...

So while I just called the majority of posters in here a "pathetic herd of cattle" you, while trying to dispute me, actually call that same group of people, "idiots". I think you just proved my point.

Do you realize that if you believe AH is guilty of conspiring to murder, your belief is in fact, believing in "some kind of conspiracy"?

dude, I don't know if this is trolling, or whatever, but while you have a very valid point -- the guy is obviously guilty if the evidence presented is legit.

maybe at trial we find out it was all made up, but in the meantime I will speculate that he is guilty.

but, don't worry -- I have no plans to incarcerate him.

btw, oj also did it.

I'm not trolling and it's fine to speculate. I'm speaking directly to the posters who are violently adamant that their views - which are inferred by the leaked info - are the "right" view.

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

So one more time for clarity, my point in prodding was to pick a fight with those who are violently adamant they know the truth without even hearing/seeing all the evidence.

this has to be ####### trolling

 

[Raider Nation]

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

The damaging evidence was not "leaked." It was described in open court to a judge. It is compelling. Hernandez is almost certainly guilty of murder.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is improperly understood by some.

There are two kinds of innocence: legal innocence and factual innocence. "Innocent until proven guilty" applies only to legal innocence.

When you murder someone, you're still legally innocent until you're finally convicted. But you lose your factual innocence immediately upon pulling the trigger.

It is not a violation of the "innocent until proven guilty" principle to say that even though he is legally innocent for the time being, Aaron Hernandez very likely killed a man.

Now you've done it!

 

[Raider Nation]

Hernandez with a gun at 19

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

The damaging evidence was not "leaked." It was described in open court to a judge. It is compelling. Hernandez is almost certainly guilty of murder.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is improperly understood by some.

There are two kinds of innocence: legal innocence and factual innocence. "Innocent until proven guilty" applies only to legal innocence.

When you murder someone, you're still legally innocent until you're finally convicted. But you're factually guilty immediately upon pulling the trigger.

It is not a violation of the "innocent until proven guilty" principle to say that even though he is legally innocent for the time being, Aaron Hernandez very likely killed a man.

You're wrong. Assuming someone is guilty before they have a chance to defend themselves is unfair and a complete violation of the principle.

AH may have killed a man by his own intent.

AH may have killed a man under the orders of someone he was fearful, who threatened to harm/kill/torture his family or AH himself.

AH, by his own intent, may have assisted in murdering a man.

AH, under the power of someone else, may have been ordered to watch and help cover up the murder of a man.

The possibilities are numerous and all share a portion of probability. To bang the table for any option without hearing ALL evidence from BOTH parties is arrogant and lazy.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

This was posted in the FFA thread:

found this on reddit:

The charges:

• Murder
• Carrying a firearm without a license
• Possession of a large capacity firearm x2
• Possession of a firearm without and FID card x2

The evidence:

• Victim found 1/2 mile from Hernandez's home w/ numerous gunshot wounds
• 5 .45 caliber shells found at the scene, fired from a semi-auto weapon, based on the locations and distance between them.
• Victim was not robbed, had wallet, keys and phone.
• Keys were to a rental car, registered to Hernandez.
• Phone contained text messages between the victim and Hernandez, within hours of the murder.
• Victim's sister said her brother left at 2:30 AM in a silver Nissan Altima with three people inside
• Hernandez had been renting a Silver Nissan Altima
• Hernandez had known the victim for about a year, The victims girlfriend is the sister of Hernadez's Fiance
• The police went to question Hernandez, Who didn't answer the door. a squad car was placed outside. Eventually Hernandez came out, and told the cops he knew they were they and that he had been watching them on his surveillance system
• A warrant was issued to seize surveillance footage from Hernandez's home.
• hernandez had recently installed a 14 camera system with cameras inside and out.
• Upon reviewing the footage, they noticed that the first 6-8 hours of footage after the time of the murder was missing.
• at 9:02 PM Hernandez texted a friend from out of state "please make it back"
• 9:05 he texted the victim, indicating he wanted to come by and get together with him
• 9:35 he texted the same out of state friend "get your ### up here" then at 10:23 "hurry your ### up"
• The man he was texting and one other showed up at hernandez's home, seen on surveillance footage
• Shortly after they arrive, Hernandez is seen with a firearm in his home on the surveillance system says "he is upset that he can't trust anyone anymore"
• the three left Hernandez's home at 1:12 AM in the silver Nissan Altima, captured on survelliance, phone records and cell tower
• the went from Hernadez's home to route 95, headed south towards (? couldn't understand) they turned around and went north. the cell phone tower tracked their movement to a gas station off route 128
• at 2:10AM Hernandez bought Gas, Bubbalicious blue cotton candy gum, and black and milds which are used for smoking mariujana (the prosecutor seems to be mistaken about common blunt cigars but oh well)
• Next they went to the victims home, at 2:32 am Hernandez sent a text "we're here" to the victim, this is when the victims sister saw him leave with them, Hernandez was driving
• They drove back to North Attleboro, this is corroborated by some random surveillance cameras and route was determined by time and distance traveled.
• during the ride, Hernandez had a conversation with the victim indicating he was upset with him. The two had gone to a club together friday night.
• he said some things happened that night and he wasn't sure if he could trust the victim, one of them was that the victim had spoken to some people He had troubles with, and he was mad about it.
• At 3:07 AM the victim sent a text to his sister "did you see who I am with" no response he texted again at 3:11 AM "Hello?"
• at 3:19 am his sister replied "who?" at 3:22 the victim texted back "NFL" then 1 minute later "Just so you know"
• at the time of these texts, the car is seen on surveillance cameras in the area of the murder site/Hernandez's home
• Surveilance cameras show the vehicle driving down the road to the murder site at 3:23 AM
• between 3:23 and 3:27 am workers nearby hear multiple gunshots
• cameras pick up the vehicle along the route between the muder site and Hernandez's home at 3:27 and 3:28 AM.
• Hernandez's own Surveilance picks sees him arriving back home at 3:29 AM
• Police confirm it is only a 2 minute drive.
• autopsy found that all evidence was consistent with the victim being murdered where he was found. In other words, he wasn't dumped. Also consistent Time of death to the time the car was there.
• two through and through wounds to the victim's chest. Police returned to the scene and dug where the victim was, they found the bullets, indicating the victim was on the ground when he was shot. Both bullets were .45 caliber, consistend with the casings found. All fired from the same unknown gun
• at 3:30 AM Hernandez is seen with his companions in his driveway, one of whom has a gun.
• they go inside. Surveillance shows Hernandez walking around with a gun in his hand.
• all three go to the basement. Surveillance cameras shut off
• later that day, 5:30 PM Hernandez and his companions return the Nissan Altima to the rental agency, Hernandez offers the attendant Blue Bubbalicious.
• one of the side mirrors is broken on the car, footage of the vehicle earlier in the night suggest it wasn't broken when he left boston, he tells the rental agency he didn't even notice it. The evidence being that it was broken sometime between leaving boston and arriving back at home.
• He rents another car and returns home, companions leave.
• At the rental agency, a piece of bubbalicious and a shell casing were found, attendant threw them away. When questioned, she told investigators about it, they found it in the dumpster, Shell casing matched to the murder weapon.
• Tire impressions at the murder scene right next to the body were consistent with a front wheel drive vehicle (altima is FWD)
• Investigators checked out the rental car. Tire treads matched those at the crime scene. Dirt found on the car also matched the crimescene
• They found a .22 nearby in a search of everywhere between Hernandez's home and the murder site. Hernandez a month prior had been involved an altercation in providence rhode island. He had someone with him who was seen to place a gun under a car. This man matches the description of one of his companions on the night of the murder.
• The gun under the car in Providence was traced to a florida gunstore. The 22 found between Hernandez's home and the murder site was from the same store.
• further search warrant of Hernandezs's home ordered. They found 22 ammo, but no 22 gun. They also found a large capacity .762 hungarian semi auto rifle, 32 round clip fully loaded. Hernandez's prints on it, he doesn't have the correct paperwork to own it.
• Not recovered was the Black semi auto handgun seen in Hernnadez's hand before and after the murder. the second individuals gun not found either.
• hernandez's girlfriend was spoken to by police, she was cooperanting until a call from hernandez telling her not to. She then stopped talking.
• the victim had defensive wounds and seemed to attempt to stop the bullets with his arms.

EDIT: there also seems to be a sealed affadavit, so it looks like someone talked (especially since they know the convo with the victim in the car)

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Hernandez with a gun at 19

surprised nobody's posted that yet.

I'm assuming that was from florida?

do they even have gun laws there?

the rise and fall of ahern

 

[Amused to Death]

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

The damaging evidence was not "leaked." It was described in open court to a judge. It is compelling. Hernandez is almost certainly guilty of murder.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is improperly understood by some.

There are two kinds of innocence: legal innocence and factual innocence. "Innocent until proven guilty" applies only to legal innocence.

When you murder someone, you're still legally innocent until you're finally convicted. But you're factually guilty immediately upon pulling the trigger.

It is not a violation of the "innocent until proven guilty" principle to say that even though he is legally innocent for the time being, Aaron Hernandez very likely killed a man.

You're wrong. Assuming someone is guilty before they have a chance to defend themselves is unfair and a complete violation of the principle.

AH may have killed a man by his own intent.

AH may have killed a man under the orders of someone he was fearful, who threatened to harm/kill/torture his family or AH himself.

AH, by his own intent, may have assisted in murdering a man.

AH, under the power of someone else, may have been ordered to watch and help cover up the murder of a man.

The possibilities are numerous and all share a portion of probability. To bang the table for any option without hearing ALL evidence from BOTH parties is arrogant and lazy.

Only if you're a juror or the judge. As a free citizen, I'm allowed to speculate as much as I want on an anonymous message board. Sorry if you disagree.

And I haven't banged any table.

 

[Raider Nation]

This was posted in the FFA thread:

found this on reddit:

The charges:

• Murder
• Carrying a firearm without a license
• Possession of a large capacity firearm x2
• Possession of a firearm without and FID card x2

The evidence:

• Victim found 1/2 mile from Hernandez's home w/ numerous gunshot wounds
• 5 .45 caliber shells found at the scene, fired from a semi-auto weapon, based on the locations and distance between them.
• Victim was not robbed, had wallet, keys and phone.
• Keys were to a rental car, registered to Hernandez.
• Phone contained text messages between the victim and Hernandez, within hours of the murder.
• Victim's sister said her brother left at 2:30 AM in a silver Nissan Altima with three people inside
• Hernandez had been renting a Silver Nissan Altima
• Hernandez had known the victim for about a year, The victims girlfriend is the sister of Hernadez's Fiance
• The police went to question Hernandez, Who didn't answer the door. a squad car was placed outside. Eventually Hernandez came out, and told the cops he knew they were they and that he had been watching them on his surveillance system
• A warrant was issued to seize surveillance footage from Hernandez's home.
• hernandez had recently installed a 14 camera system with cameras inside and out.
• Upon reviewing the footage, they noticed that the first 6-8 hours of footage after the time of the murder was missing.
• at 9:02 PM Hernandez texted a friend from out of state "please make it back"
• 9:05 he texted the victim, indicating he wanted to come by and get together with him
• 9:35 he texted the same out of state friend "get your ### up here" then at 10:23 "hurry your ### up"
• The man he was texting and one other showed up at hernandez's home, seen on surveillance footage
• Shortly after they arrive, Hernandez is seen with a firearm in his home on the surveillance system says "he is upset that he can't trust anyone anymore"
• the three left Hernandez's home at 1:12 AM in the silver Nissan Altima, captured on survelliance, phone records and cell tower
• the went from Hernadez's home to route 95, headed south towards (? couldn't understand) they turned around and went north. the cell phone tower tracked their movement to a gas station off route 128
• at 2:10AM Hernandez bought Gas, Bubbalicious blue cotton candy gum, and black and milds which are used for smoking mariujana (the prosecutor seems to be mistaken about common blunt cigars but oh well)
• Next they went to the victims home, at 2:32 am Hernandez sent a text "we're here" to the victim, this is when the victims sister saw him leave with them, Hernandez was driving
• They drove back to North Attleboro, this is corroborated by some random surveillance cameras and route was determined by time and distance traveled.
• during the ride, Hernandez had a conversation with the victim indicating he was upset with him. The two had gone to a club together friday night.
• he said some things happened that night and he wasn't sure if he could trust the victim, one of them was that the victim had spoken to some people He had troubles with, and he was mad about it.
• At 3:07 AM the victim sent a text to his sister "did you see who I am with" no response he texted again at 3:11 AM "Hello?"
• at 3:19 am his sister replied "who?" at 3:22 the victim texted back "NFL" then 1 minute later "Just so you know"
• at the time of these texts, the car is seen on surveillance cameras in the area of the murder site/Hernandez's home
• Surveilance cameras show the vehicle driving down the road to the murder site at 3:23 AM
• between 3:23 and 3:27 am workers nearby hear multiple gunshots
• cameras pick up the vehicle along the route between the muder site and Hernandez's home at 3:27 and 3:28 AM.
• Hernandez's own Surveilance picks sees him arriving back home at 3:29 AM
• Police confirm it is only a 2 minute drive.
• autopsy found that all evidence was consistent with the victim being murdered where he was found. In other words, he wasn't dumped. Also consistent Time of death to the time the car was there.
• two through and through wounds to the victim's chest. Police returned to the scene and dug where the victim was, they found the bullets, indicating the victim was on the ground when he was shot. Both bullets were .45 caliber, consistend with the casings found. All fired from the same unknown gun
• at 3:30 AM Hernandez is seen with his companions in his driveway, one of whom has a gun.
• they go inside. Surveillance shows Hernandez walking around with a gun in his hand.
• all three go to the basement. Surveillance cameras shut off
• later that day, 5:30 PM Hernandez and his companions return the Nissan Altima to the rental agency, Hernandez offers the attendant Blue Bubbalicious.
• one of the side mirrors is broken on the car, footage of the vehicle earlier in the night suggest it wasn't broken when he left boston, he tells the rental agency he didn't even notice it. The evidence being that it was broken sometime between leaving boston and arriving back at home.
• He rents another car and returns home, companions leave.
• At the rental agency, a piece of bubbalicious and a shell casing were found, attendant threw them away. When questioned, she told investigators about it, they found it in the dumpster, Shell casing matched to the murder weapon.
• Tire impressions at the murder scene right next to the body were consistent with a front wheel drive vehicle (altima is FWD)
• Investigators checked out the rental car. Tire treads matched those at the crime scene. Dirt found on the car also matched the crimescene
• They found a .22 nearby in a search of everywhere between Hernandez's home and the murder site. Hernandez a month prior had been involved an altercation in providence rhode island. He had someone with him who was seen to place a gun under a car. This man matches the description of one of his companions on the night of the murder.
• The gun under the car in Providence was traced to a florida gunstore. The 22 found between Hernandez's home and the murder site was from the same store.
• further search warrant of Hernandezs's home ordered. They found 22 ammo, but no 22 gun. They also found a large capacity .762 hungarian semi auto rifle, 32 round clip fully loaded. Hernandez's prints on it, he doesn't have the correct paperwork to own it.
• Not recovered was the Black semi auto handgun seen in Hernnadez's hand before and after the murder. the second individuals gun not found either.
• hernandez's girlfriend was spoken to by police, she was cooperanting until a call from hernandez telling her not to. She then stopped talking.
• the victim had defensive wounds and seemed to attempt to stop the bullets with his arms.

EDIT: there also seems to be a sealed affadavit, so it looks like someone talked (especially since they know the convo with the victim in the car)

Crazy coincidences.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Why is everyone jumping to the conclusion that AH is guilty? OJ was charged with murder and we all know he was found innocent.

This is a fantasy football forum. Let's hyphothetically say that he somehow doens't get charged with murder--but that the five gun counts stick and he gets obstruction charges for destroying evidence. Those offenses alone are very punishable. On top of that, he is unemployed-- so best case scenario--what team will hire a guy who will have been out of football for a year or two, was involved in one shooting in florida, and was at least in the fray for a murder, who has major gun charges on his record, who still would have to do deal with a tyrant like commish in goodell? In regards to fantasy football--AH's guilt or innocence is basically irrelevant. Even if he's innocent--he has very little value at best. We're not posting on CNN here.

I knew I should have used the 'sarcasm' smiley over the 'loco'. Oh well.

Lol..my cheap tablet doesn't show emoticons--so I didn't even know you had put that face there. I was blindly unaware of your sarcasm because of that--so my bad. lol. Now that I'm on my laptop, I see it.

 

[kutta]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Most people who believe that everything is some kind of conspiracy are idiots. They also like to think that they are the smart ones while everyone else is stupid. But yeah, we are all "pathetic herd of cattle." You truly have it all figured out...

So while I just called the majority of posters in here a "pathetic herd of cattle" you, while trying to dispute me, actually call that same group of people, "idiots". I think you just proved my point.

Do you realize that if you believe AH is guilty of conspiring to murder, your belief is in fact, believing in "some kind of conspiracy"?

dude, I don't know if this is trolling, or whatever, but while you have a very valid point -- the guy is obviously guilty if the evidence presented is legit.

maybe at trial we find out it was all made up, but in the meantime I will speculate that he is guilty.

but, don't worry -- I have no plans to incarcerate him.

btw, oj also did it.

I'm not trolling and it's fine to speculate. I'm speaking directly to the posters who are violently adamant that their views - which are inferred by the leaked info - are the "right" view.

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

So one more time for clarity, my point in prodding was to pick a fight with those who are violently adamant they know the truth without even hearing/seeing all the evidence.

I'll tell you what. If you don't think it's a landslide, how about we bet and I give you 5 to 1 odds. I'll take the guilty side, you take the innocent side. I'll do whatever $$ amount you want.

 

[KCitons]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Most people who believe that everything is some kind of conspiracy are idiots. They also like to think that they are the smart ones while everyone else is stupid. But yeah, we are all "pathetic herd of cattle." You truly have it all figured out...

So while I just called the majority of posters in here a "pathetic herd of cattle" you, while trying to dispute me, actually call that same group of people, "idiots". I think you just proved my point.

Do you realize that if you believe AH is guilty of conspiring to murder, your belief is in fact, believing in "some kind of conspiracy"?

dude, I don't know if this is trolling, or whatever, but while you have a very valid point -- the guy is obviously guilty if the evidence presented is legit.

maybe at trial we find out it was all made up, but in the meantime I will speculate that he is guilty.

but, don't worry -- I have no plans to incarcerate him.

btw, oj also did it.

I'm not trolling and it's fine to speculate. I'm speaking directly to the posters who are violently adamant that their views - which are inferred by the leaked info - are the "right" view.

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

So one more time for clarity, my point in prodding was to pick a fight with those who are violently adamant they know the truth without even hearing/seeing all the evidence.

I'll tell you what. If you don't think it's a landslide, how about we bet and I give you 5 to 1 odds. I'll take the guilty side, you take the innocent side. I'll do whatever $$ amount you want.

Who's being violent? Is someone there punching you?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Most people who believe that everything is some kind of conspiracy are idiots. They also like to think that they are the smart ones while everyone else is stupid. But yeah, we are all "pathetic herd of cattle." You truly have it all figured out...

So while I just called the majority of posters in here a "pathetic herd of cattle" you, while trying to dispute me, actually call that same group of people, "idiots". I think you just proved my point.

Do you realize that if you believe AH is guilty of conspiring to murder, your belief is in fact, believing in "some kind of conspiracy"?

dude, I don't know if this is trolling, or whatever, but while you have a very valid point -- the guy is obviously guilty if the evidence presented is legit.

maybe at trial we find out it was all made up, but in the meantime I will speculate that he is guilty.

but, don't worry -- I have no plans to incarcerate him.

btw, oj also did it.

I'm not trolling and it's fine to speculate. I'm speaking directly to the posters who are violently adamant that their views - which are inferred by the leaked info - are the "right" view.

Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

So one more time for clarity, my point in prodding was to pick a fight with those who are violently adamant they know the truth without even hearing/seeing all the evidence.

I'll tell you what. If you don't think it's a landslide, how about we bet and I give you 5 to 1 odds. I'll take the guilty side, you take the innocent side. I'll do whatever $$ amount you want.

I'll take that bet all day. I'll put $20 up against your $100.

 

[werdnoynek]

This was posted in the FFA thread:

found this on reddit:

The charges:

• Murder
• Carrying a firearm without a license
• Possession of a large capacity firearm x2
• Possession of a firearm without and FID card x2

The evidence:

• Victim found 1/2 mile from Hernandez's home w/ numerous gunshot wounds
• 5 .45 caliber shells found at the scene, fired from a semi-auto weapon, based on the locations and distance between them.
• Victim was not robbed, had wallet, keys and phone.
• Keys were to a rental car, registered to Hernandez.
• Phone contained text messages between the victim and Hernandez, within hours of the murder.
• Victim's sister said her brother left at 2:30 AM in a silver Nissan Altima with three people inside
• Hernandez had been renting a Silver Nissan Altima
• Hernandez had known the victim for about a year, The victims girlfriend is the sister of Hernadez's Fiance
• The police went to question Hernandez, Who didn't answer the door. a squad car was placed outside. Eventually Hernandez came out, and told the cops he knew they were they and that he had been watching them on his surveillance system
• A warrant was issued to seize surveillance footage from Hernandez's home.
• hernandez had recently installed a 14 camera system with cameras inside and out.
• Upon reviewing the footage, they noticed that the first 6-8 hours of footage after the time of the murder was missing.
• at 9:02 PM Hernandez texted a friend from out of state "please make it back"
• 9:05 he texted the victim, indicating he wanted to come by and get together with him
• 9:35 he texted the same out of state friend "get your ### up here" then at 10:23 "hurry your ### up"
• The man he was texting and one other showed up at hernandez's home, seen on surveillance footage
• Shortly after they arrive, Hernandez is seen with a firearm in his home on the surveillance system says "he is upset that he can't trust anyone anymore"
• the three left Hernandez's home at 1:12 AM in the silver Nissan Altima, captured on survelliance, phone records and cell tower
• the went from Hernadez's home to route 95, headed south towards (? couldn't understand) they turned around and went north. the cell phone tower tracked their movement to a gas station off route 128
• at 2:10AM Hernandez bought Gas, Bubbalicious blue cotton candy gum, and black and milds which are used for smoking mariujana (the prosecutor seems to be mistaken about common blunt cigars but oh well)
• Next they went to the victims home, at 2:32 am Hernandez sent a text "we're here" to the victim, this is when the victims sister saw him leave with them, Hernandez was driving
• They drove back to North Attleboro, this is corroborated by some random surveillance cameras and route was determined by time and distance traveled.
• during the ride, Hernandez had a conversation with the victim indicating he was upset with him. The two had gone to a club together friday night.
• he said some things happened that night and he wasn't sure if he could trust the victim, one of them was that the victim had spoken to some people He had troubles with, and he was mad about it.
• At 3:07 AM the victim sent a text to his sister "did you see who I am with" no response he texted again at 3:11 AM "Hello?"
• at 3:19 am his sister replied "who?" at 3:22 the victim texted back "NFL" then 1 minute later "Just so you know"
• at the time of these texts, the car is seen on surveillance cameras in the area of the murder site/Hernandez's home
• Surveilance cameras show the vehicle driving down the road to the murder site at 3:23 AM
• between 3:23 and 3:27 am workers nearby hear multiple gunshots
• cameras pick up the vehicle along the route between the muder site and Hernandez's home at 3:27 and 3:28 AM.
• Hernandez's own Surveilance picks sees him arriving back home at 3:29 AM
• Police confirm it is only a 2 minute drive.
• autopsy found that all evidence was consistent with the victim being murdered where he was found. In other words, he wasn't dumped. Also consistent Time of death to the time the car was there.
• two through and through wounds to the victim's chest. Police returned to the scene and dug where the victim was, they found the bullets, indicating the victim was on the ground when he was shot. Both bullets were .45 caliber, consistend with the casings found. All fired from the same unknown gun
• at 3:30 AM Hernandez is seen with his companions in his driveway, one of whom has a gun.
• they go inside. Surveillance shows Hernandez walking around with a gun in his hand.
• all three go to the basement. Surveillance cameras shut off
• later that day, 5:30 PM Hernandez and his companions return the Nissan Altima to the rental agency, Hernandez offers the attendant Blue Bubbalicious.
• one of the side mirrors is broken on the car, footage of the vehicle earlier in the night suggest it wasn't broken when he left boston, he tells the rental agency he didn't even notice it. The evidence being that it was broken sometime between leaving boston and arriving back at home.
• He rents another car and returns home, companions leave.
• At the rental agency, a piece of bubbalicious and a shell casing were found, attendant threw them away. When questioned, she told investigators about it, they found it in the dumpster, Shell casing matched to the murder weapon.
• Tire impressions at the murder scene right next to the body were consistent with a front wheel drive vehicle (altima is FWD)
• Investigators checked out the rental car. Tire treads matched those at the crime scene. Dirt found on the car also matched the crimescene
• They found a .22 nearby in a search of everywhere between Hernandez's home and the murder site. Hernandez a month prior had been involved an altercation in providence rhode island. He had someone with him who was seen to place a gun under a car. This man matches the description of one of his companions on the night of the murder.
• The gun under the car in Providence was traced to a florida gunstore. The 22 found between Hernandez's home and the murder site was from the same store.
• further search warrant of Hernandezs's home ordered. They found 22 ammo, but no 22 gun. They also found a large capacity .762 hungarian semi auto rifle, 32 round clip fully loaded. Hernandez's prints on it, he doesn't have the correct paperwork to own it.
• Not recovered was the Black semi auto handgun seen in Hernnadez's hand before and after the murder. the second individuals gun not found either.
• hernandez's girlfriend was spoken to by police, she was cooperanting until a call from hernandez telling her not to. She then stopped talking.
• the victim had defensive wounds and seemed to attempt to stop the bullets with his arms.

EDIT: there also seems to be a sealed affadavit, so it looks like someone talked (especially since they know the convo with the victim in the car)

 

[Donnybrook]

He rents another car and returns home, companions leave.

Gotta wonder if he was going to use the second rental to dispose of the body if it wasn't discovered.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

loooool pats fans discuss what to do with their hernandez jerseys

best answer:

Those of you with #85 Hernandez jerseys from his rookie season, replace the name bar with "Ochocinco", then throw it out.

 

[gianmarco]

I've read about 3 of every 10 pages in this thread. Practically everyone vocal in this thread is saying this is a slam dunk. The media really does control most of your thoughts and ideas, you pathetic herd of cattle. There's a reason a person is considered innocent until proven guilty and it's because the horror of a sending an innocent man to prison is thousands times worse than freeing a guilty man. It's also easy to conclude a verdict without seeing all the evidence. I hope none of you have ever been on a jury with a person's fate in your hands. Let's let this trial play out before we condemn someone.

There are several plausible scenarios that could justify AH's innocence. Perhaps he's so deep in gang b.s. that he was forced to murder his buddy. If he doesn't comply then he would be tortured/killed/ or his family tortured/killed. There have probably been thousands of "slam dunk" cases historically where the defendant is legitimately innocent (sometimes not discovered until years later). Being setup should not be ruled out as an explanation for AH's involvement. It's hard for me to understand how dumb he'd have to be to do everything exactly wrong. In fact, it's so ridiculous I think a setup is more likely than AH murdering someone.

Most people who believe that everything is some kind of conspiracy are idiots. They also like to think that they are the smart ones while everyone else is stupid. But yeah, we are all "pathetic herd of cattle." You truly have it all figured out...

So while I just called the majority of posters in here a "pathetic herd of cattle" you, while trying to dispute me, actually call that same group of people, "idiots". I think you just proved my point. Do you realize that if you believe AH is guilty of conspiring to murder, your belief is in fact, believing in "some kind of conspiracy"?

dude, I don't know if this is trolling, or whatever, but while you have a very valid point -- the guy is obviously guilty if the evidence presented is legit.

maybe at trial we find out it was all made up, but in the meantime I will speculate that he is guilty.

but, don't worry -- I have no plans to incarcerate him.

btw, oj also did it.

I'm not trolling and it's fine to speculate. I'm speaking directly to the posters who are violently adamant that their views - which are inferred by the leaked info - are the "right" view.Let's put it this way, if I had to bet on his innocence or guilt I'd bet on his guilt but not by a landslide. It's actually pretty close for me....because the leaked info is almost too perfect, and because of that I do put more weight on a setup than I would if there was less obvious evidence.

So one more time for clarity, my point in prodding was to pick a fight with those who are violently adamant they know the truth without even hearing/seeing all the evidence.

I'll tell you what. If you don't think it's a landslide, how about we bet and I give you 5 to 1 odds. I'll take the guilty side, you take the innocent side. I'll do whatever $$ amount you want.

I'll take that bet all day. I'll put $20 up against your $100.

Oooh, I'll get in on this action. Put me down for guilty too.

 

[Raider Nation]

loooool pats fans discuss what to do with their hernandez jerseys

best answer:

Those of you with #85 Hernandez jerseys from his rookie season, replace the name bar with "Ochocinco", then throw it out.

I'll bet none of them recommended making the #81 into a Russ Francis jersey. Mainly because there were no Patriots fans back then.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Best case scenario for AH at this point, he was not the shooter, wanted to scare the guy, but one of the other two got trigger happy and shot the Lloyd.

AH agrees to testify against the shooter, and accepts plea of twenty years with possibility of parole.