How do you negotiate a new car? (1 Viewer)

[FatMax]

What if you are paying cash and aren't even using the financing department in any way.. how does that change the game

No different than financing. Negotiate the price first.

 

[Judge Smails]

Almost five years ago, but I thought Judge Smails nailed it:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=486298&hl=buying

And some thought I was a one trick pony with the chili.....

 

[thegroveisdark]

.

 

[BassNBrew]

Someone once told me that if you leave with a new set of keys, you paid too much.

 

[pats3in4]

New cars are commodities. Call several dealers within your acceptable radius, ask for the fleet manager, provide the specs you want, request their bottom line price and you'll call them back after you do the same with the other dealers on your list. Email a followup to the fleet manager to get the quote with specs so there is no confusion or bait-and-switch. If you live in an urban area, you may contact 30+ dealers, get 4 or 5 to give an offer and (depending on model and demand) get one below invoice. That dealer will probably be the one about to hit a volume incentive from the manufacturer and will be willing to give you a great deal and make it up from the manufacturer.

Used cars are a different story. Edmunds True Value is probably your best online guide.

good stuff, any general thoughts on used cars? I'm much more at home negotiating new on the guidelines you mention but there's obviously a different feel to used via dealers.

I'm worried about buying flood damaged cars locally after Sandy

Used cars have so much more markup so there is usually a lot more wiggle room. But do keep in mind that the dealers often do spend some good money on making them sellable. And of course the supply of the exact car you want is limited so it depends on how badly you want a specific car.

My understanding is that Edmunds True Value is a decent guide on what the dealer will pay for a trade-in and what they will sell it for. KBB tends to be inflated and thus you'll see some dealers offer "Below KBB!"

You can potentially benefit from a "bad" Carfax report if you have a mechanic/body shop you trust that can check the car out. I bought a used car whose Carfax showed it was rear-ended. I took it to my mechanic and he said there was no damage and that the bumper replacement was done perfectly. This Carfax report had probably been scaring off potential buyers for quite some time as the dealer continued to drop the price.

I also happened to buy that same car from a dealer that didn't sell that make. Similar cars at dealers who did sell that make tended to keep their prices higher and didn't drop the price much over time. But because of the Carfax issue, I cannot tell how much of my deal was the Carfax report and how much was a dealer trying to move an off-brand from their inventory. Probably a combination of both.

 

[Sinrman]

Great advice. I must admit, I'm a horrible barterer too. Better to trade your vehicle in or sell it privately? Or does it matter? Is it that much of a difference?

 

[pats3in4]

Great advice. I must admit, I'm a horrible barterer too. Better to trade your vehicle in or sell it privately? Or does it matter? Is it that much of a difference?

If money is your only gauge, selling it privately will usually work out better than trade in...often by a lot. Dealers typically do not go above wholesale unless they have a compelling reason (e.g. know they can turn it around quickly with little reconditioning or help close an important sale). Trade ins are painless from a logistics standpoint so that's another gauge that may offset less money.

I've sold two cars on Craigslist. Yes, I had to put up with the buffoons who call with low-ball offers and "I'll pay cash"...umm, it's Craigslist: Of COURSE you'll be paying cash. Fortunately I live in a decent area so I'll get 10 legit inquiries for every 1 seedy character. The first car I sold for a bit above the Edmunds True Value and the second one I sold for above KBB(!). Each car sold for a few thousand over wholesale so that was my "paycheck" over trading them in. Not bad for fielding about two dozen calls/emails, visiting with about 10 buyers, negotiations, and 2nd visits with the actual buyers to exchange money, keys and title.

 

[MC Gas Money]

I find that brandishing a pistol helps you in most negotiations.

 

[Dentist]

I find that brandishing a pistol helps you in most negotiations.

so does getting your junk out... if you can make the other person uncomfortable, you're winning the negotiation

 

[MC Gas Money]

I find that brandishing a pistol helps you in most negotiations.

so does getting your junk out... if you can make the other person uncomfortable, you're winning the negotiation

They cant argue if they are laughing

 

[Dentist]

What if you are paying cash and aren't even using the financing department in any way.. how does that change the game

No different than financing. Negotiate the price first.

well.. i mean like do you take in a cashier's check? personal check?

I've never bought a car at a dealership in my entire life... my uncle was a chevy car dealer for years so I always got sweetheart deals but his dealership was shut down back in 2006 when GM consolidated small town dealerships... so this is all new territory for me

 

[RUSF18]

What if you are paying cash and aren't even using the financing department in any way.. how does that change the game

No different than financing. Negotiate the price first.

well.. i mean like do you take in a cashier's check? personal check?

I've never bought a car at a dealership in my entire life... my uncle was a chevy car dealer for years so I always got sweetheart deals but his dealership was shut down back in 2006 when GM consolidated small town dealerships... so this is all new territory for me

When you write out a check, do you fill it out for the same amount every time or is it variable based on what you are paying for? Those numbers you're filling out are what should be negotiated.

 

[Dentist]

What if you are paying cash and aren't even using the financing department in any way.. how does that change the game

No different than financing. Negotiate the price first.

well.. i mean like do you take in a cashier's check? personal check?

I've never bought a car at a dealership in my entire life... my uncle was a chevy car dealer for years so I always got sweetheart deals but his dealership was shut down back in 2006 when GM consolidated small town dealerships... so this is all new territory for me

When you write out a check, do you fill it out for the same amount every time or is it variable based on what you are paying for? Those numbers you're filling out are what should be negotiated.

I'm saying if I buy a $42,000 car would a place accept a personal check for that? i would think they would want a cashier's check... but if you're negotiating then you don't know what to have that made out for

 

[NIU Kicker]

I know the title says new car, but for what it's worth my family has bought 7 different cars from enterprise car sales and we have had great luck with them. They offer haggle free buying and the experience is low pressure as it gets.

 

[Brony]

Great advice. I must admit, I'm a horrible barterer too. Better to trade your vehicle in or sell it privately? Or does it matter? Is it that much of a difference?

If money is your only gauge, selling it privately will usually work out better than trade in...often by a lot. Dealers typically do not go above wholesale unless they have a compelling reason (e.g. know they can turn it around quickly with little reconditioning or help close an important sale). Trade ins are painless from a logistics standpoint so that's another gauge that may offset less money.

I've sold two cars on Craigslist. Yes, I had to put up with the buffoons who call with low-ball offers and "I'll pay cash"...umm, it's Craigslist: Of COURSE you'll be paying cash. Fortunately I live in a decent area so I'll get 10 legit inquiries for every 1 seedy character. The first car I sold for a bit above the Edmunds True Value and the second one I sold for above KBB(!). Each car sold for a few thousand over wholesale so that was my "paycheck" over trading them in. Not bad for fielding about two dozen calls/emails, visiting with about 10 buyers, negotiations, and 2nd visits with the actual buyers to exchange money, keys and title.

I've sold cars with high mileage for cash via AutoTrader / CL, but if I have a car valued around $6 to 7,000, would you still expect to be paid in cold cash, or is cashier's check acceptable?

 

[Greggity]

The last 2 new cars i have bought whatever the sticker price was i knocked 3-4k off it. If they didnt want to move a unit for that price then i walk.

 

[johnnycakes]

The last 2 new cars i have bought whatever the sticker price was i knocked 3-4k off it. If they didnt want to move a unit for that price then i walk.

If you don't make them chase you into the parking lot, throwing the keys at you and imploring you to take the car, you probably did not negotiate hard enough.

 

[snogger]

What if you are paying cash and aren't even using the financing department in any way.. how does that change the game

No different than financing. Negotiate the price first.

well.. i mean like do you take in a cashier's check? personal check?

I've never bought a car at a dealership in my entire life... my uncle was a chevy car dealer for years so I always got sweetheart deals but his dealership was shut down back in 2006 when GM consolidated small town dealerships... so this is all new territory for me

Normally my Father in-law pays cash( cashiers check from the bank) for his cars..

But in order to get all the deals being offered for the 2014 Ford Taurus they just bought he had to finance it through ford.. So, he put 95% down, financed the rest, got all the deals available, and paid it off the next month.

 

[Dentist]

What if you are paying cash and aren't even using the financing department in any way.. how does that change the game

No different than financing. Negotiate the price first.

well.. i mean like do you take in a cashier's check? personal check?

I've never bought a car at a dealership in my entire life... my uncle was a chevy car dealer for years so I always got sweetheart deals but his dealership was shut down back in 2006 when GM consolidated small town dealerships... so this is all new territory for me

Normally my Father in-law pays cash( cashiers check from the bank) for his cars..

But in order to get all the deals being offered for the 2014 Ford Taurus they just bought he had to finance it through ford.. So, he put 95% down, financed the rest, got all the deals available, and paid it off the next month.

this seems pretty reasonable

 

[Gawain]

So, it sounds like the moral of the story is, don't go car shopping with your wife if she's going to fall in love with a mass-produced car from her youth and not let you leave.

 

[pats3in4]

Great advice. I must admit, I'm a horrible barterer too. Better to trade your vehicle in or sell it privately? Or does it matter? Is it that much of a difference?

If money is your only gauge, selling it privately will usually work out better than trade in...often by a lot. Dealers typically do not go above wholesale unless they have a compelling reason (e.g. know they can turn it around quickly with little reconditioning or help close an important sale). Trade ins are painless from a logistics standpoint so that's another gauge that may offset less money.

I've sold two cars on Craigslist. Yes, I had to put up with the buffoons who call with low-ball offers and "I'll pay cash"...umm, it's Craigslist: Of COURSE you'll be paying cash. Fortunately I live in a decent area so I'll get 10 legit inquiries for every 1 seedy character. The first car I sold for a bit above the Edmunds True Value and the second one I sold for above KBB(!). Each car sold for a few thousand over wholesale so that was my "paycheck" over trading them in. Not bad for fielding about two dozen calls/emails, visiting with about 10 buyers, negotiations, and 2nd visits with the actual buyers to exchange money, keys and title.

I've sold cars with high mileage for cash via AutoTrader / CL, but if I have a car valued around $6 to 7,000, would you still expect to be paid in cold cash, or is cashier's check acceptable?

I had one guy ask to pay by cashier's check. I told him that I'd like to see him get it from his bank and then go to my bank to deposit it immediately (across the street from each other). He was fine with that. He understood that we don't know each other and viewed it as a sign of good faith. He knew where I lived since I showed him the car in my driveway so I took a leap of faith with him visiting.

The other guy did pay cash, though.

 

[snogger]

First off igbomb for putting up with my questions through PM's

We are going to be buying a 2014 Ford Escape Labor Day weekend.

Last Saturday my wife and I stopped at our local dealer to just look and thought we were there before the vultures had arrived but no such luck..

But as it turned out, at least for now, the sales person was very nice and understood when we told him we had no intention of buying until Labor Day weekend.

He told me that if I saw an Escape at another dealers site a week or two before we are ready to buy, contact him and he could get it to his lot and "lock it down" for us..

We shall see on that one, but we have bought 4 vehicles from this dealer previously, and my Father in-law just bought a 2014 Ford Tarus from them so if they want to keep our business they know they have to work with us....

Any ways, I was thinking of sending off the email below back to him to get the ball rolling and wondered if you all had anything you'd add/change??

Thanks for your email and the conversation last Saturday..
As we mentioned, we are looking to buy around Labor day.
We would like to close on Friday, August 29th
The final price range we are looking to finance at is 24k - 25k, with no cash down and no trade in and we are looking at using Ford's financing to get the 0% APR.
I thought I'd share with you the build we are looking at..

2014 Ford Escape SE AWD
1.6L engine200a Feature package.. Would be nice to get the 201a Feature package, but that is a "nice to have" not a "Must have" and again the price is the determining factor.
Still deciding on colors. Right now I'm thinking this is my preferred color order, but I see other dealers have a Sunset and other colors on their lots so I'm going to stop by this week to see how they look:
SilverSunset
GreyWhite
To get an idea on pricing I used Fords web site to narrow down the options "extended Inventory" Search

 

[Spike]

Fightingchance.com

Ywia

Worked awesome for me

Can you tell us more about the site and the service they provide?

 

[chet]

What if you are paying cash and aren't even using the financing department in any way.. how does that change the game

No different than financing. Negotiate the price first.

well.. i mean like do you take in a cashier's check? personal check?

I've never bought a car at a dealership in my entire life... my uncle was a chevy car dealer for years so I always got sweetheart deals but his dealership was shut down back in 2006 when GM consolidated small town dealerships... so this is all new territory for me

Normally my Father in-law pays cash( cashiers check from the bank) for his cars..

But in order to get all the deals being offered for the 2014 Ford Taurus they just bought he had to finance it through ford.. So, he put 95% down, financed the rest, got all the deals available, and paid it off the next month.

this seems pretty reasonable

I wrote a personal check for the last car I bought.

Buy used especially with high end vehicles and save BIG.

 

[Random]

I'm saying if I buy a $42,000 car would a place accept a personal check for that? i would think they would want a cashier's check... but if you're negotiating then you don't know what to have that made out for

I paid cash (actual cash) for a motorcycle about 10 years ago from a dealer.

Negotiated the price on a used Vette from a private seller and paid with a cashiers check. He held the title.

Financed wifes new car and paid it off within a few months. This was just easier than running to the bank the day we bought it.

Negotiated price on my car over the phone from a private seller and paid with cashiers check. His bank had the title.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Depends on how fast the car is moving. If its laying on the horn and trying to creep through a crowd I may just sit on the hood. If its coming at me at like 30 mph, I just step out of the way.

Same goes for a used car, really.

 

[inca911]

Buy used especially with high end vehicles and save BIG.

Buying a lightly used car with significant warranty coverage remaining is really the best option. If you buy new, you are paying thousands of dollars just for new car smell. I just bought a 2013 Hyundai Genesis with 20k miles for about $10k less that what it cost new just one year ago. Let someone else take the depreciation hit, and get a nearly new car. In my case, the car still has 4 years and 40k miles on the 100% bumper-to-bumper warranty.

 

[shuke]

negotiate everything through email with several dealers. i didn't even walk into the dealership until it was time to pick up the car.

I did this with my last car and got the deal I wanted. But one mistake I made was not getting the OTD price in writing before you go to the dealer. I still had to fight and put up with bull#### when I was there.

 

[johnnycakes]

My link.

 

[otello]

negotiate everything through email with several dealers. i didn't even walk into the dealership until it was time to pick up the car.

I did this with my last car and got the deal I wanted. But one mistake I made was not getting the OTD price in writing before you go to the dealer. I still had to fight and put up with bull#### when I was there.

this happened to me too. I got the otd price in email, making clear in prior emails that there would be no trade in. When I got there, of course, they thought we would trade in our current car. I had all of the emails to deal with this, and got the car at my price, but it still was a pain.

 

[snogger]

negotiate everything through email with several dealers. i didn't even walk into the dealership until it was time to pick up the car.

I did this with my last car and got the deal I wanted. But one mistake I made was not getting the OTD price in writing before you go to the dealer. I still had to fight and put up with bull#### when I was there.

Question in regards to this.. How far out should you start?

As posted above, we plan to buy a 2014 Ford Escape the Friday before Labor day ( 3 weeks away) and wondering when we should start "playing the game"

 

[Random]

negotiate everything through email with several dealers. i didn't even walk into the dealership until it was time to pick up the car.

I did this with my last car and got the deal I wanted. But one mistake I made was not getting the OTD price in writing before you go to the dealer. I still had to fight and put up with bull#### when I was there.

Question in regards to this.. How far out should you start?

As posted above, we plan to buy a 2014 Ford Escape the Friday before Labor day ( 3 weeks away) and wondering when we should start "playing the game"

Why not now? Walk away a few times. The deal will get better each time you go back.

 

[snogger]

negotiate everything through email with several dealers. i didn't even walk into the dealership until it was time to pick up the car.

I did this with my last car and got the deal I wanted. But one mistake I made was not getting the OTD price in writing before you go to the dealer. I still had to fight and put up with bull#### when I was there.

Question in regards to this.. How far out should you start?

As posted above, we plan to buy a 2014 Ford Escape the Friday before Labor day ( 3 weeks away) and wondering when we should start "playing the game"

Why not now? Walk away a few times. The deal will get better each time you go back.

Labor Day weekend usually brings about other incentives, be it added features, gift cards, etc.. that we want to take advantage of..

I don't want to get tempted by a good offer now when it might get even better Labor Day weekend.

 

[tri-man 47]

negotiate everything through email with several dealers. i didn't even walk into the dealership until it was time to pick up the car.

I did this with my last car and got the deal I wanted. But one mistake I made was not getting the OTD price in writing before you go to the dealer. I still had to fight and put up with bull#### when I was there.

Question in regards to this.. How far out should you start?

As posted above, we plan to buy a 2014 Ford Escape the Friday before Labor day ( 3 weeks away) and wondering when we should start "playing the game"

Why not now? Walk away a few times. The deal will get better each time you go back.

Start communicating through email at each dealer's website ...get quotes, compare, and then start circling back ("dealer A is $500 less than yours ..."). The trick is getting apples-to-apples comparisons. We shopped a year ago, and two dealers were far less than the others. We didn't do enough i-legwork ...went to one dealer who didn't present the full, fair price until the final paperwork. We walked. Next dealer had included discounts for being a vet, being a repeat buyer, AND being a student. Yeah, right. Watch out for those 'too good to be true offers.'

 

[snogger]

negotiate everything through email with several dealers. i didn't even walk into the dealership until it was time to pick up the car.

I did this with my last car and got the deal I wanted. But one mistake I made was not getting the OTD price in writing before you go to the dealer. I still had to fight and put up with bull#### when I was there.

Question in regards to this.. How far out should you start?

As posted above, we plan to buy a 2014 Ford Escape the Friday before Labor day ( 3 weeks away) and wondering when we should start "playing the game"

Why not now? Walk away a few times. The deal will get better each time you go back.

Start communicating through email at each dealer's website ...get quotes, compare, and then start circling back ("dealer A is $500 less than yours ..."). The trick is getting apples-to-apples comparisons. We shopped a year ago, and two dealers were far less than the others. We didn't do enough i-legwork ...went to one dealer who didn't present the full, fair price until the final paperwork. We walked. Next dealer had included discounts for being a vet, being a repeat buyer, AND being a student. Yeah, right. Watch out for those 'too good to be true offers.'

Each dealers web site is setup so differently.. some only list MSRP, with click her for Internet price, which wants your email and phone number..

Others list Dealers price.. but when you dig into it you see they are showing every single Incentive, which 95% of the public will never get..

Toughest part is figuring out the full discount of incentives that you will get.. Ford's site shows 0% for 60 months plus $2490 in incentives.. But some dealers show that plus "Instant Savings" and other incentives that Ford's site doesn't show..

Guess it doesn't hurt to start the emailing to the 3 local Ford Dealers I'd go to( all within a 20 mile Radius of my house) and let them know the date I'm looking to buy and the model..

My hope is by saying "A nice to have, but not needed add on, is the 201a feature package as long as the price stays between 24-25k" as an extra incentive for them to throw in

 

[The Noid]

Others list Dealers price.. but when you dig into it you see they are showing every single Incentive, which 95% of the public will never get..

My favorite is the $1,000-$2,000 "Mobility Assistance" rebate they inculde in the internet price, which is when you have the car converted to one you can drive with just your hands, if you were handicapped or paralyzed from the waist down.

 

[snogger]

Well, seems sending this email is working.. at least for the normal Features.. Now to see what Labor day brings..

Thanks for your email and the conversation last Saturday..
As we mentioned, we are looking to buy around Labor day.
We would like to close on Friday, August 29th
The final price range we are looking to finance at is 24k - 25k, with no cash down and no trade in and we are looking at using Ford's financing to get the 0% APR.
I thought I'd share with you the build we are looking at..

2014 Ford Escape SE AWD
1.6L engine200a Feature package.. Would be nice to get the 201a Feature package, but that is a "nice to have" not a "Must have" and again the price is the determining factor.
Still deciding on colors. Right now I'm thinking this is my preferred color order, but I see other dealers have a Sunset and other colors on their lots so I'm going to stop by this week to see how they look:
SilverSunset
GreyWhite
To get an idea on pricing I used Fords web site to narrow down the options "extended Inventory" Search

here is the email response back from the sales rep today:

[SIZE=11pt]Thanks for getting back to me. I looked into a few Escapes for you as far as options that you want on your new vehicle. I will attach a window sticker with some pricing for you so you have an idea of what to expect for pricing and options. I can get you any of the colors you requested at the same pricing I will show you today.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt] MSRP: $ 27,705[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Dealer Discount: $ 1,152[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt] Rebates: $ 2,000 (Ford 0% financing)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt] $ 24,553+TTL[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Let me know how that looks. Thanks again for the E-mail and I hope we can earn your business! [/SIZE]

 

[shuke]

negotiate everything through email with several dealers. i didn't even walk into the dealership until it was time to pick up the car.

I did this with my last car and got the deal I wanted. But one mistake I made was not getting the OTD price in writing before you go to the dealer. I still had to fight and put up with bull#### when I was there.

Question in regards to this.. How far out should you start?

As posted above, we plan to buy a 2014 Ford Escape the Friday before Labor day ( 3 weeks away) and wondering when we should start "playing the game"

Never too early.

 

[shuke]

By the way, I started with Edmunds price promise quoting. They round up the best deals affiliated with them. Then I used those as a starting point to negotiate with other dealers.

 

[Spike]

By the way, I started with Edmunds price promise quoting. They round up the best deals affiliated with them. Then I used those as a starting point to negotiate with other dealers.

Is that a fee-associated service?

 

[snogger]

By the way, I started with Edmunds price promise quoting. They round up the best deals affiliated with them. Then I used those as a starting point to negotiate with other dealers.

Is that a fee-associated service?

No, it's free.. decided today since I'm just a little over two weeks out from buying to use Edmund's as well as direct email local dealers and let the dealing begin... guessing phone and/or email box will be busy tomorrow.