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How good is Tom Brady? (1 Viewer)

A

anguskahn

Footballguy
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.

How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?

 
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anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
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Considering these allegations didn't start until the Packers game last year - no.Maybe you should make this a poll.
 
the guy's a known cheater. ban him from the league! I dont care if they beat the Packers 35-0 that day on the road. he was a cheat then, and he's a cheat now. get him outta here!

 
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
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Oh brother.Brady is one of the best.Nothing here IMO.
 
Todem said:
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
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Oh brother.Brady is one of the best.Nothing here IMO.
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not true. first the tuck rule scandal, now this. BAN HIM!
 
Phlash said:
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
Click to expand...
Considering these allegations didn't start until the Packers game last year - no.Maybe you should make this a poll.
Click to expand...
Thats just when teh allegations start. This could have been going on for a lot longer and nobody caught on.And to clarify, I'm merely looking for opinions. I'm not saying I think any less of him as a QB. But he has always been a QB that didnt have a strong arm but made up for it by making the right read. Perhaps he knew the right read before the snap from the camera.
 
Phlash said:
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
Click to expand...
Considering these allegations didn't start until the Packers game last year - no.Maybe you should make this a poll.
Click to expand...
Wasnt it reported that there was years of evidence mounting? From several teams.Didnt Mangini state it was happening when he was back with the Pats?
 
Kit Fisto said:
If the Pats cheating helped Tom Brady become good, how does it explain Bledsoe? :thumbup:
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Bledsoe had some very good years including a Superbowl appearance. Plus its more likely that they started cheating after Brady came in. Perhaps when your franchise QB goes down and you have to resort to a 2nd year QB who wasnt even a high draft pick and you already have an 0-2 record, you resort to tactics to get an edge. Perhaps BB realized he needed to help his young QB with reads in order to survive.
 
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BigSteelThrill said:
Phlash said:
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
Click to expand...
Considering these allegations didn't start until the Packers game last year - no.Maybe you should make this a poll.
Click to expand...
Wasnt it reported that there was years of evidence mounting? From several teams.Didnt Mangini state it was happening when he was back with the Pats?
Click to expand...
bring on the YEARS OF EVIDENCE. they are all a bunch of cheaters. they should strip the franchise of its name and move 'em to Cleveland.
 
twitch said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Phlash said:
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
Click to expand...
Considering these allegations didn't start until the Packers game last year - no.Maybe you should make this a poll.
Click to expand...
Wasnt it reported that there was years of evidence mounting? From several teams.Didnt Mangini state it was happening when he was back with the Pats?
Click to expand...
bring on the YEARS OF EVIDENCE. they are all a bunch of cheaters. they should strip the franchise of its name and move 'em to Cleveland.
Click to expand...
thats a little too harsh...Nobody deserves to have to play in Cleveland.
 
anguskahn said:
twitch said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Phlash said:
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
Click to expand...
Considering these allegations didn't start until the Packers game last year - no.Maybe you should make this a poll.
Click to expand...
Wasnt it reported that there was years of evidence mounting? From several teams.Didnt Mangini state it was happening when he was back with the Pats?
Click to expand...
bring on the YEARS OF EVIDENCE. they are all a bunch of cheaters. they should strip the franchise of its name and move 'em to Cleveland.
Click to expand...
thats a little too harsh...Nobody deserves to have to play in Cleveland.
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make it Oakland, then. And Belichick should be forced to own that team! and Ted Bruschi's stroke was all a big hoax. they did it just to gain a little favoritism with the league, so when they eventually got busted for years of cheating, the league would only take away 4 picks and not 5. Im putting all my Pats stuff on Ebay without a reserve option. Fire sale! Who wants a Brady action figure?
 
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
Click to expand...
I dunno, it certainly was easier for Montana to find the open receiver with his O-line cut-blocking defenders, I mean, how many times was Montana sacked during his tenure in SF? not very often...hmm, I wonder why....oh, and don't forget the picks that Walsh had the Niners using, which were illegal yet disguised as just another wr running into a defender..oops..sorry, didn't see you there...so , let me ask you, is the dirty,cheap cutblock worse than some dude using a camera to steal signs?yeah, MUCH WORSE...get over it..
 
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anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
Click to expand...
Brady isn't accused of cheating. As an aside-Any coach that allows his signals to be stolen should be fired. As has been pointed out by several coaches, it's easy enough to change signals from game to game or, if necessary, from quarter to quarter. Just because the NFL is making a big deal of this doesn't mean that the fans need to pile on. What they have been doing is irrelevant. Pats win because they have better players and a better organization than most.
 
Skinsfansince72 said:
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
Click to expand...
Brady isn't accused of cheating. As an aside-Any coach that allows his signals to be stolen should be fired. As has been pointed out by several coaches, it's easy enough to change signals from game to game or, if necessary, from quarter to quarter. Just because the NFL is making a big deal of this doesn't mean that the fans need to pile on. What they have been doing is irrelevant. Pats win because they have better players and a better organization than most.
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youre makin' too much sense here, sf. The Pats are all a bunch of cheats and should be banned for life. skill has nothing to do with their success. its all about the video. Im not gonna be shocked if they follow the Raiders lead and change their team motto to , "Just Cheat, Baby!".
 
nygiants56 said:
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
Click to expand...
I dunno, it certainly was easier for Montana to find the open receiver with his O-line cut-blocking defenders, I mean, how many times was Montana sacked during his tenure in SF? not very often...hmm, I wonder why....oh, and don't forget the picks that Walsh had the Niners using, which were illegal yet disguised as just another wr running into a defender..oops..sorry, didn't see you there...so , let me ask you, is the dirty,cheap cutblock worse than some dude using a camera to steal signs?yeah, MUCH WORSE...get over it..
Click to expand...
Nothing for me to get over. I'm a bears fan and Ive never owned Brady. I really couldnt care less. I'm merely asking a question that seems like it could hold value. NE opened this can of worms and I'm juts looking in the can. I dont know why you are are so defensive. I welcome your contrary arguements as I'm still on the fence on this. There is doubt cast. Tell me why there should be no doubt.
 
Skinsfansince72 said:
anguskahn said:
It certainly is easier to find the open man when you know what the defense is before the snap.How much of a role do you think the cheating aided in creating Tom Brady's legacy? Would he have still been one of the greatest QBs? or is he just pretty good and he had a huge advantage given to him by his coach/team's cheating?
Click to expand...
Brady isn't accused of cheating. As an aside-Any coach that allows his signals to be stolen should be fired. As has been pointed out by several coaches, it's easy enough to change signals from game to game or, if necessary, from quarter to quarter. Just because the NFL is making a big deal of this doesn't mean that the fans need to pile on. What they have been doing is irrelevant. Pats win because they have better players and a better organization than most.
Click to expand...
great point.
 
twitch said:
the guy's a known cheater. ban him from the league! I dont care if they beat the Packers 35-0 that day on the road. he was a cheat then, and he's a cheat now. get him outta here!
Click to expand...
From the Wisconsin State Journal Archive - quotes from Al Harris following last year's game (I read them like he didn't know about the uncredentialed video person being escorted away, also, I think the Packers got beat down and would have lost regardless, but lends credence to the stealing signal argument nonetheless):"(The Patriots) were playing well on defense," Packers cornerback Al Harris said. "It almost looked like they knew what we were doing, you know what I mean?"

That was especially true of the Patriots' offense, according to Harris.

"They ran plays designed for us," he said. "They ran plays and made us check out some things. I don't know who calls their plays. (Belichick) is pretty good. Honestly. He's pretty good. There were things that they were doing that (got receivers open). Not to take anything away from their receivers -- I think they've got good receivers -- but if they just line up against us, they're not really going to hurt us."

http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?r.../0611200027.php

 
Great post buddy. This illustrates EXACTLY how much video taping PLUS the radio communication with DEFENSE (illegal) benefited the Pats. I bet if Belichick could harness his evilness for something good, tomorrow he'd have cancer cured by lunch AND golf 36 holes by dinner.

 
Skinsfansince72 said:
What they have been doing is irrelevant. Pats win because they have better players and a better organization than most.
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That is crap. For years, all we have heard is how the Pats were no more talented than any other team, but always managed to win because of superior coaching and game-planning. Only recently have more than a few people said how their talent level is now among the league's best. Having said all of that, Tom Brady is still awesome, and possibly the best QB in the NFL.
 
He benefited from cheating, but make no mistake, he is a top notch QB in this league, regardless.

 
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Ghost Rider said:
Skinsfansince72 said:
What they have been doing is irrelevant. Pats win because they have better players and a better organization than most.
Click to expand...
That is crap. For years, all we have heard is how the Pats were no more talented than any other team, but always managed to win because of superior coaching and game-planning. Only recently have more than a few people said how their talent level is now among the league's best. Having said all of that, Tom Brady is still awesome, and possibly the best QB in the NFL.
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I don't know, I guess could be right with that, talking about how they've been given credit for winning so much with only decent talent and this would explain why.But, how prevalent is this type of cheating? I mean, does every team do it? If so, then it's really no advantage, it could be that they were just the ones getting caught.
 
The proof will be in the pudding. If in fact the Pats cheated and assuming it is curbed, we'll see a big dive in Brady's performance this year, no? Or, how long before we see the dive? I'd like the people who think this to go out and state when we'll see it.

Personally, I think Brady is a great QB, and some of the throws I've seen him make don't lead me to believe he could throw the ball 25 yards downfield on a rope to a covered guy because he knew the defense, but I'm just a hack fan. I really don't know. I'd like to see some former Patriot that doesn't have an ax to grind come out and confirm the rumors. Of course those who don't have an axe to grind won't say anything, and those that do, well, they have an axe to grind. Lose-lose I guess.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Skinsfansince72 said:
What they have been doing is irrelevant. Pats win because they have better players and a better organization than most.
Click to expand...
That is crap. For years, all we have heard is how the Pats were no more talented than any other team, but always managed to win because of superior coaching and game-planning. Only recently have more than a few people said how their talent level is now among the league's best.
Click to expand...
I agree with this part. Everyone FYI Cheating helps you win. :confused:
 
JFT Ben said:
twitch said:
the guy's a known cheater. ban him from the league! I dont care if they beat the Packers 35-0 that day on the road. he was a cheat then, and he's a cheat now. get him outta here!
Click to expand...
From the Wisconsin State Journal Archive - quotes from Al Harris following last year's game (I read them like he didn't know about the uncredentialed video person being escorted away, also, I think the Packers got beat down and would have lost regardless, but lends credence to the stealing signal argument nonetheless):"(The Patriots) were playing well on defense," Packers cornerback Al Harris said. "It almost looked like they knew what we were doing, you know what I mean?"

That was especially true of the Patriots' offense, according to Harris.

"They ran plays designed for us," he said. "They ran plays and made us check out some things. I don't know who calls their plays. (Belichick) is pretty good. Honestly. He's pretty good. There were things that they were doing that (got receivers open). Not to take anything away from their receivers -- I think they've got good receivers -- but if they just line up against us, they're not really going to hurt us."

http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?r.../0611200027.php
Click to expand...
This keeps getting mentioned. Have you never heard a quote like that before? It seems like a pretty common statement when a team gets it handed to them.De La Salle RB Dustin Watson on his teams loss to Bellevue

"They seemed like they knew what we were doing. When we made an audible, they adjusted," said De La Salle senior running back Dustin Watson, who carried the ball six times for 28 yards.

 
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