How many DUIs before losing driver's license for good? (1 Viewer)

[Ghost Rider]

Two.

And if you get caught driving after that, drunk or not, it's mandatory prison time.

 

[matttyl]

I'm torn on this. I voted 3. I feel like 1 or 2 is excessive. You get an "oops," and then maybe 1 legitimate "f-up," but the 3rd one is a trend.

The reason I'm torn is I've seen what not having a drivers license can do to someone. (NOT trying to minimize the damage that 1 drunk driver can do. It's just a tough balancing act) I had a guy who used to work for me at the cell phone store. He was in his mid 30's, and recovering from addiction (alcohol and drugs). He basically spent most of his 20's in a drunk/drugged state, and was arrested for DUI multiple times, hit-and-run (of a parked car, not a person), and lots of other things. His license was suspended for 8 years when I hired him. At that point, he'd been clean for 2 years, and basically he begged me for a job. He was very up-front. He said that he had a ton of court fees and fines, and a suspended license. Getting a job to actually pay off the fees was next to impossible. He owned a little scooter that he could legally drive to work. Even in the winter, that was how he rolled.

It was sad because he was a good guy who made a lot of bad decisions when he was young that he couldn't ever get over. He had turned himself around and was basically an AA/NA advocate and very active with helping others, but he couldn't get out from that shadow. I don't honestly know how someone could have ever paid off the fees he owed and held down a job with no license. I later found out that he unfortunately relapsed, and got arrested for shoplifting and ended up hanging himself in the holding cell. Sad.

As sad as that story is, and it is sad....not having a driver's license potentially saved him a few hundred a month in a car payment + ridiculous auto insurance rates.

 

[FUBAR]

at any answer above 1.

Well he didn't kill anyone so let's give him another chance? WTF!?!

While I was in the military I saw the UCMJ going from basically laughing at DUI's, to demoting and discharging everyone over the rank of E4. One chance only and you get put out on the streets.

Ok, maybe 2 dui's if this is the scenario.

You and your buddies are at bar watching some sports, and you are drunk at this point thinking that you have a ride home, or can use UBERtaxi. The President comes on the tv interrupting the game, and goes on to say that everyone needs to get home ASAP, and we are being attacked like 9/11 again. You jump in the first car you see and drive.

Anything less than the above scenario. You get 1 chance only.

pretty big difference between firing someone and revoking their license permanently.

1 - suspended license for a year

2 - 10 year suspension

3 - life

and no more plea deals to anything less than DUI.

 

[matttyl]

I believe it's 3 in NC. That may have changed, though.

The story the morning on the news dis show that the penalties are very different across different states. They talked specifically about Colorado, who has no "limit" and where a few of their examples of 10-20 DUIs were from. I remember one of the first things I did (before 11:00 AM mind you) when I went to Colorado was to visit the Coors brewery. I wonder if those two are linked somehow....

 

[matttyl]

More people die from distracted driving and speeding than ever did from drunk driving. Why would we treat those any differently?

While I agree with your premise, more people die from those situations as more people partake in "distracted driving" and speeding than do in drunk driving. Just like more people die in car crashes than plane crashes every year (by a lot), due to the fact that more people travel by car than by plane. Not all "broken laws" should be treated with the same punishment.

 

[FUBAR]

Probably wouldn't support a lifetime ban at all. Maybe an indefinite ban where you lose it for 2 years minimum then can appeal every year to get it back if you've shown you've gotten your alcohol problem under control. A lifetime ban seems excessive.

So does 15-20 DUIs, which a few people in the story I saw this morning had.

if you just suspended the license for 10 years you wouldn't have many with 15 DUIs who were driving legally.

 

[Fat Nick]

I'm torn on this. I voted 3. I feel like 1 or 2 is excessive. You get an "oops," and then maybe 1 legitimate "f-up," but the 3rd one is a trend.

The reason I'm torn is I've seen what not having a drivers license can do to someone. (NOT trying to minimize the damage that 1 drunk driver can do. It's just a tough balancing act) I had a guy who used to work for me at the cell phone store. He was in his mid 30's, and recovering from addiction (alcohol and drugs). He basically spent most of his 20's in a drunk/drugged state, and was arrested for DUI multiple times, hit-and-run (of a parked car, not a person), and lots of other things. His license was suspended for 8 years when I hired him. At that point, he'd been clean for 2 years, and basically he begged me for a job. He was very up-front. He said that he had a ton of court fees and fines, and a suspended license. Getting a job to actually pay off the fees was next to impossible. He owned a little scooter that he could legally drive to work. Even in the winter, that was how he rolled.

It was sad because he was a good guy who made a lot of bad decisions when he was young that he couldn't ever get over. He had turned himself around and was basically an AA/NA advocate and very active with helping others, but he couldn't get out from that shadow. I don't honestly know how someone could have ever paid off the fees he owed and held down a job with no license. I later found out that he unfortunately relapsed, and got arrested for shoplifting and ended up hanging himself in the holding cell. Sad.

As sad as that story is, and it is sad....not having a driver's license potentially saved him a few hundred a month in a car payment + ridiculous auto insurance rates.

Very true...but it also limited him to jobs within like a 5 mile radius of the town he lived in. He could've made a lot more closer to the city. The guy could sell ice to an eskimo. Great salesman.

 

[StrikeS2k]

More people die from distracted driving and speeding than ever did from drunk driving. Why would we treat those any differently?

While I agree with your premise, more people die from those situations as more people partake in "distracted driving" and speeding than do in drunk driving. Just like more people die in car crashes than plane crashes every year (by a lot), due to the fact that more people travel by car than by plane. Not all "broken laws" should be treated with the same punishment.

We don't have any statistics to know if per capita the number are the same or not. The reality is that most people who drive "drunk" actually do make it to their destination without incident, and most who have an incident are significantly above the legal limit.

 

[tonydead]

I'd vote for offence equality before campaigning for stricter DUI laws. DUI laws are by far the strictest regardless of outcome; nothing, accident, injury, death. Compared to something equally as dangerous such as texting while driving which around these parts is a $114 ticket. The punishment for first time offenders and low BAC is way overblown in my opinion.

 

[matttyl]

I'm torn on this. I voted 3. I feel like 1 or 2 is excessive. You get an "oops," and then maybe 1 legitimate "f-up," but the 3rd one is a trend.

The reason I'm torn is I've seen what not having a drivers license can do to someone. (NOT trying to minimize the damage that 1 drunk driver can do. It's just a tough balancing act) I had a guy who used to work for me at the cell phone store. He was in his mid 30's, and recovering from addiction (alcohol and drugs). He basically spent most of his 20's in a drunk/drugged state, and was arrested for DUI multiple times, hit-and-run (of a parked car, not a person), and lots of other things. His license was suspended for 8 years when I hired him. At that point, he'd been clean for 2 years, and basically he begged me for a job. He was very up-front. He said that he had a ton of court fees and fines, and a suspended license. Getting a job to actually pay off the fees was next to impossible. He owned a little scooter that he could legally drive to work. Even in the winter, that was how he rolled.

It was sad because he was a good guy who made a lot of bad decisions when he was young that he couldn't ever get over. He had turned himself around and was basically an AA/NA advocate and very active with helping others, but he couldn't get out from that shadow. I don't honestly know how someone could have ever paid off the fees he owed and held down a job with no license. I later found out that he unfortunately relapsed, and got arrested for shoplifting and ended up hanging himself in the holding cell. Sad.

As sad as that story is, and it is sad....not having a driver's license potentially saved him a few hundred a month in a car payment + ridiculous auto insurance rates.

Very true...but it also limited him to jobs within like a 5 mile radius of the town he lived in. He could've made a lot more closer to the city. The guy could sell ice to an eskimo. Great salesman.

But shouldn't he have to pay a price for his mistakes?

 

[matttyl]

More people die from distracted driving and speeding than ever did from drunk driving. Why would we treat those any differently?

While I agree with your premise, more people die from those situations as more people partake in "distracted driving" and speeding than do in drunk driving. Just like more people die in car crashes than plane crashes every year (by a lot), due to the fact that more people travel by car than by plane. Not all "broken laws" should be treated with the same punishment.

We don't have any statistics to know if per capita the number are the same or not. The reality is that most people who drive "drunk" actually do make it to their destination without incident, and most who have an incident are significantly above the legal limit.

And I'd think that an even higher percentage of those who speed do so as well. Get on I-95 sometime, everyone is speeding.

 

[MC Gas Money]

We need designated drunk driving hours.

A lot of people dont change. If we just give them the road a few hours a day they will slowly eliminate eachother with collisions.

 

[TheAristocrat]

I like [icon]'s post and agree although I would say there would be instances where 3 might be the case in a relatively short amount of time (such as three in a year).

I wouldn't be opposed to "skipping a step" if you get a DUI while already serving a suspension for a DUI... That's clearly an individual with a problem.

I'd also like to revise to include mandatory substance abuse treatment:

1 = 1 year + Level 1 Substance Abuse Class (8 hour class for a weekend or two)?

2 = 3 years + Level 2 Substance Abuse Counseling (few hours one weekend a month during the suspension)

3 = 10 years + 1-2 week inpatient detox and counseling program

4 = Life

 

[NutterButter]

Do those in car breathalyzers where the car won't start until you blow clean play any part in this? Sure probably ways to circumvent, but if we're talking about an upstanding citizen that made a few mistakes or had a problem he's kicked, seems like a better option than lifetime ban.

How about people that have killed someone? Say it was their first offense, they went to jail and now after 10 years or whatever the offense may be, they're out. Can they get their license back?

 

[tonydead]

More people die from distracted driving and speeding than ever did from drunk driving. Why would we treat those any differently?

While I agree with your premise, more people die from those situations as more people partake in "distracted driving" and speeding than do in drunk driving. Just like more people die in car crashes than plane crashes every year (by a lot), due to the fact that more people travel by car than by plane. Not all "broken laws" should be treated with the same punishment.

We don't have any statistics to know if per capita the number are the same or not. The reality is that most people who drive "drunk" actually do make it to their destination without incident, and most who have an incident are significantly above the legal limit.

And I'd think that an even higher percentage of those who speed do so as well. Get on I-95 sometime, everyone is speeding.

Instead of phrasing it as "the number of people who get away with it" I'd say "what is the likely hood of an incident" and I agree with what Strike is saying that it should be proportional to the punishment. It's obviously heavily weighted against the DUI offence compared to speeding or texting or any other moving violation.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

DUI laws are way too harsh already. I certainly wouldn't advocate making them even sillier by imposing lifetime bans after a small handful of offenses.

 

[matttyl]

DUI laws are way too harsh already. I certainly wouldn't advocate making them even sillier by imposing lifetime bans after a small handful of offenses.

Well, they aren't consistent from state to state. You can lose your license for good after 3 in one state, and still have your license at 10 in another. I guess if you lose it in one state, just move....

 

[Cjw_55106]

DUI laws are way too harsh already. I certainly wouldn't advocate making them even sillier by imposing lifetime bans after a small handful of offenses.

 

[Da Guru]

We need designated drunk driving hours.

A lot of people dont change. If we just give them the road a few hours a day they will slowly eliminate eachother with collisions.

How about putting overhead lights on cars. If you are drunk it would be legal to drive as long as your overheads are on to warn people to pull over or stay behind at a safe distance?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

DUI laws are way too harsh already. I certainly wouldn't advocate making them even sillier by imposing lifetime bans after a small handful of offenses.

Yeah! Keep the drunk drivers on the streets! It makes driving so much more interesting!

 

[MC Gas Money]

We need designated drunk driving hours.

A lot of people dont change. If we just give them the road a few hours a day they will slowly eliminate eachother with collisions.

How about putting overhead lights on cars. If you are drunk it would be legal to drive as long as your overheads are on to warn people to pull over or stay behind at a safe distance?

Then I would have to suggest installing stuka whistles as well to warn the optically challenged.

 

[Jack White]

DUI laws are way too harsh already. I certainly wouldn't advocate making them even sillier by imposing lifetime bans after a small handful of offenses.

Why bother with a real response when you can simply click on one of your little smiley characters?

 

[Johnny Rock]

If someone has 5, 10 or 20 DUI's they likely don't have a license or insurance anyway. It doesn't matter if you take away their license for life.

They will buy cars for cash from CL with good tabs or have friends renew their tabs. Sell the car rinse and repeat.

They will find a way to drive. They may be looking over their should a lot, but they'll be out there.

 

[MC Gas Money]

If someone has 5, 10 or 20 DUI's they likely don't have a license or insurance anyway. It doesn't matter if you take away their license for life.

They will buy cars for cash from CL with good tabs or have friends renew their tabs. Sell the car rinse and repeat.

They will find a way to drive. They may be looking over their should a lot, but they'll be out there.

Forced sterilization may be in order.

Also makes me wonder if it is a good idea to suspend the licenses of deadbeat dads.

I meet so many guys who are limited in the work they can take due to this

 

[The Commish]

I begrudgingly go with 2. I'd like to say once and you're done, but I believe in a second chance. I am willing to say one shot if you kill someone because of your ####### decision that first time.

 

[Cjw_55106]

DUI laws are way too harsh already. I certainly wouldn't advocate making them even sillier by imposing lifetime bans after a small handful of offenses.

Why bother with a real response when you can simply click on one of your little smiley characters?

Some posts arent worthy of words. The smiley did the job.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

DUI laws are way too harsh already. I certainly wouldn't advocate making them even sillier by imposing lifetime bans after a small handful of offenses.

Yeah! Keep the drunk drivers on the streets! It makes driving so much more interesting!

.08 BAC <> drunk

 

[Apple Jack]

DUI laws are way too harsh already. I certainly wouldn't advocate making them even sillier by imposing lifetime bans after a small handful of offenses.

Why bother with a real response when you can simply click on one of your little smiley characters?

Some posts arent worthy of words. The smiley did the job.

Yeah, this isn't doing for you what you think it is.

 

[matttyl]

If someone has 5, 10 or 20 DUI's they likely don't have a license or insurance anyway. It doesn't matter if you take away their license for life.

They will buy cars for cash from CL with good tabs or have friends renew their tabs. Sell the car rinse and repeat.

They will find a way to drive. They may be looking over their should a lot, but they'll be out there.

And that should be mandatory jail time.

 

[FUBAR]

I begrudgingly go with 2. I'd like to say once and you're done, but I believe in a second chance. I am willing to say one shot if you kill someone because of your ####### decision that first time.

like when you aim a gun at someone, pull the trigger and miss.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

DUI laws are way too harsh already. I certainly wouldn't advocate making them even sillier by imposing lifetime bans after a small handful of offenses.

Yeah! Keep the drunk drivers on the streets! It makes driving so much more interesting!

.08 BAC <> drunk

Uh, no. That is when you're legally drunk. Are you a big fan of drunk driving?

 

[Apple Jack]

Uh, no. That is when you're legally drunk. Are you a big fan of drunk driving?

He said drunk, not legally drunk. HTH

 

[NutterButter]

Is this chart acurrate? If so, holy cow. So at 220, I can have 4 beers in an hour and still not be legally drunk. That seems rather high. Even you skinny boys can knock down 3 beers in an hour and be below the limit. How much you boozers drinking?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Uh, no. That is when you're legally drunk. Are you a big fan of drunk driving?

He said drunk, not legally drunk. HTH

It doesn't. Try again.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Uh, no. That is when you're legally drunk. Are you a big fan of drunk driving?

He said drunk, not legally drunk. HTH

It doesn't. Try again.

What exactly are you having trouble with? Is it the word legal, the word drunk, or the combination?

 

[matttyl]

3 had a good lead early, but it looks like 2 has taken over the top spot in the poll.

 

[[icon]]

Is this chart acurrate? If so, holy cow. So at 220, I can have 4 beers in an hour and still not be legally drunk. That seems rather high. Even you skinny boys can knock down 3 beers in an hour and be below the limit. How much you boozers drinking?

The numbers change dramatically over time. You can't drink 4 beers an hour. If you drink 3 more beers over the next 2 hours you will probably fail.

A 200lb man who drinks a 6 pack while watching a basketball game at a buddies house then drives home will likely fail a test.

 

[IC FBGCav]

This ##### killed my aunt and uncle.

Man charged with couple's death in crash
Mercer County incident is his fourth DUI case for 2003.
January 13, 2004|By Manuel Gamiz Jr. Of The Morning Call
Joseph C. Stemple Jr., a Bethlehem man with three drunken driving arrests in early 2003, was charged Monday with killing a couple in a drunken driving crash in western Pennsylvania two months ago, authorities said.

Shenango Township police in Mercer County charged Stemple, 41, of 1314 Lorain Ave., with two counts each of homicide by vehicle and homicide by vehicle while driving under the influence, five counts of reckless endangerment and a count of drunken driving.

Shenango Township Police Chief Ron Preston said he expects Stemple, the son of the Whitpain Township police chief in Montgomery County, to turn himself in Wednesday.

According to Shenango police, Stemple drove the wrong way on Route 60 in the township on Nov. 5 and his vehicle hit a vehicle transporting Norma Romanio, 73, and Donald Romanio, 69, of New Castle.

Norma Romanio was killed instantly, and her husband died later at St. Elizabeth Hospital in Youngstown, Ohio, township police said. Stemple, who was headed to Cleveland before he crashed, was treated for injuries at the same hospital.

Preston said Stemple's blood-alcohol ratio was more than 0.3 percent.

It was the fourth time Stemple was behind the wheel in a drunken driving crash in 2003, and his blood-alcohol ratio in all of them was more than three times what the state considers the limit, according to police.

Despite having his first drunken driving arrest in February, Stemple had a valid driver's license until last week, when he surrendered it to authorities after pleading guilty Friday to two Montgomery County drunken driving arrests.

John Gradel, a Montgomery County assistant district attorney, said driving privileges are suspended upon a drunken driving conviction, not an arrest.

Upon entering a guilty plea in Montgomery County, Stemple was sentenced to 30 days to 23 months in jail, a $300 fine, traffic safety classes and an evaluation to determine outpatient counseling needs, according to court records.

East Norriton police said Stemple, living in Blue Bell at the time, struck a car with his on Feb. 13 in a shopping center parking lot on Germantown Pike, failed three field sobriety tests and had a blood-alcohol ratio of 0.36 percent, according to court documents.

Pottstown police Capt. Allan Ewing said Stemple was charged with drunken driving and careless driving after his vehicle rear-ended a vehicle that was stopped at a traffic light on Route 100 on May 1.

Two occupants in the other vehicle complained of neck pain, and Stemple registered a blood-alcohol ratio of 0.35 percent, Ewing said.

But in the end this is moot, technology will do away with this problem in ten years.

 

[[icon]]

This ##### killed my aunt and uncle.

Man charged with couple's death in crash
Mercer County incident is his fourth DUI case for 2003.
January 13, 2004|By Manuel Gamiz Jr. Of The Morning Call
Joseph C. Stemple Jr., a Bethlehem man with three drunken driving arrests in early 2003, was charged Monday with killing a couple in a drunken driving crash in western Pennsylvania two months ago, authorities said.

Shenango Township police in Mercer County charged Stemple, 41, of 1314 Lorain Ave., with two counts each of homicide by vehicle and homicide by vehicle while driving under the influence, five counts of reckless endangerment and a count of drunken driving.

Shenango Township Police Chief Ron Preston said he expects Stemple, the son of the Whitpain Township police chief in Montgomery County, to turn himself in Wednesday.

According to Shenango police, Stemple drove the wrong way on Route 60 in the township on Nov. 5 and his vehicle hit a vehicle transporting Norma Romanio, 73, and Donald Romanio, 69, of New Castle.

Norma Romanio was killed instantly, and her husband died later at St. Elizabeth Hospital in Youngstown, Ohio, township police said. Stemple, who was headed to Cleveland before he crashed, was treated for injuries at the same hospital.

Preston said Stemple's blood-alcohol ratio was more than 0.3 percent.

It was the fourth time Stemple was behind the wheel in a drunken driving crash in 2003, and his blood-alcohol ratio in all of them was more than three times what the state considers the limit, according to police.

Despite having his first drunken driving arrest in February, Stemple had a valid driver's license until last week, when he surrendered it to authorities after pleading guilty Friday to two Montgomery County drunken driving arrests.

John Gradel, a Montgomery County assistant district attorney, said driving privileges are suspended upon a drunken driving conviction, not an arrest.

Upon entering a guilty plea in Montgomery County, Stemple was sentenced to 30 days to 23 months in jail, a $300 fine, traffic safety classes and an evaluation to determine outpatient counseling needs, according to court records.

East Norriton police said Stemple, living in Blue Bell at the time, struck a car with his on Feb. 13 in a shopping center parking lot on Germantown Pike, failed three field sobriety tests and had a blood-alcohol ratio of 0.36 percent, according to court documents.

Pottstown police Capt. Allan Ewing said Stemple was charged with drunken driving and careless driving after his vehicle rear-ended a vehicle that was stopped at a traffic light on Route 100 on May 1.

Two occupants in the other vehicle complained of neck pain, and Stemple registered a blood-alcohol ratio of 0.35 percent, Ewing said.

But in the end this is moot, technology will do away with this problem in ten years.

Jesus christ...

I'm an advocate of some degree of tolerance on this topic, but dude had 3-4 accidents with BAC of 0.30+ in ONE YEAR?!!?

How the #### was he not in jail?!

My condolences on your Aunt/Uncle, GB :(

 

[FreeBaGeL]

DUI laws are way too harsh already. I certainly wouldn't advocate making them even sillier by imposing lifetime bans after a small handful of offenses.

Yeah! Keep the drunk drivers on the streets! It makes driving so much more interesting!

.08 BAC <> drunk

Uh, no. That is when you're legally drunk. Are you a big fan of drunk driving?

While I personally am very careful to not drive if anywhere near the limit (though I can't claim the same for when I was younger), I'd be interested in a study that somehow compared the percentage of times a driver in the ~.08 range caused a fatal accident vs the number of times they arrived at their destination safely. I've got to imagine that the percentage of fatal accidents in that BAC range is an incredibly small number.

So then the question becomes how many deaths are worth a widespread convenience? And before anyone says zero, keep in mind that most widespread conveniences come attached with some number of yearly deaths. Consumer driving at all is nothing more than a convenience that we sacrifice 30,000+ deaths per year for in this country alone.

 

[General Tso]

Raise the limit back to 0.10 - but make the penalties stiffer.

 

[MC Gas Money]

Raise the limit back to 0.10 - but make the penalties stiffer.

You said stiffer

 

[NutterButter]

Is this chart acurrate? If so, holy cow. So at 220, I can have 4 beers in an hour and still not be legally drunk. That seems rather high. Even you skinny boys can knock down 3 beers in an hour and be below the limit. How much you boozers drinking?

The numbers change dramatically over time. You can't drink 4 beers an hour. If you drink 3 more beers over the next 2 hours you will probably fail.

A 200lb man who drinks a 6 pack while watching a basketball game at a buddies house then drives home will likely fail a test.

Order a pizza to go along with that six pack and you'd be ok.

 

[NutterButter]

This ##### killed my aunt and uncle.

Man charged with couple's death in crash
Mercer County incident is his fourth DUI case for 2003.
January 13, 2004|By Manuel Gamiz Jr. Of The Morning Call
Joseph C. Stemple Jr., a Bethlehem man with three drunken driving arrests in early 2003, was charged Monday with killing a couple in a drunken driving crash in western Pennsylvania two months ago, authorities said.

Shenango Township police in Mercer County charged Stemple, 41, of 1314 Lorain Ave., with two counts each of homicide by vehicle and homicide by vehicle while driving under the influence, five counts of reckless endangerment and a count of drunken driving.

Shenango Township Police Chief Ron Preston said he expects Stemple, the son of the Whitpain Township police chief in Montgomery County, to turn himself in Wednesday.

According to Shenango police, Stemple drove the wrong way on Route 60 in the township on Nov. 5 and his vehicle hit a vehicle transporting Norma Romanio, 73, and Donald Romanio, 69, of New Castle.

Norma Romanio was killed instantly, and her husband died later at St. Elizabeth Hospital in Youngstown, Ohio, township police said. Stemple, who was headed to Cleveland before he crashed, was treated for injuries at the same hospital.

Preston said Stemple's blood-alcohol ratio was more than 0.3 percent.

It was the fourth time Stemple was behind the wheel in a drunken driving crash in 2003, and his blood-alcohol ratio in all of them was more than three times what the state considers the limit, according to police.

Despite having his first drunken driving arrest in February, Stemple had a valid driver's license until last week, when he surrendered it to authorities after pleading guilty Friday to two Montgomery County drunken driving arrests.

John Gradel, a Montgomery County assistant district attorney, said driving privileges are suspended upon a drunken driving conviction, not an arrest.

Upon entering a guilty plea in Montgomery County, Stemple was sentenced to 30 days to 23 months in jail, a $300 fine, traffic safety classes and an evaluation to determine outpatient counseling needs, according to court records.

East Norriton police said Stemple, living in Blue Bell at the time, struck a car with his on Feb. 13 in a shopping center parking lot on Germantown Pike, failed three field sobriety tests and had a blood-alcohol ratio of 0.36 percent, according to court documents.

Pottstown police Capt. Allan Ewing said Stemple was charged with drunken driving and careless driving after his vehicle rear-ended a vehicle that was stopped at a traffic light on Route 100 on May 1.

Two occupants in the other vehicle complained of neck pain, and Stemple registered a blood-alcohol ratio of 0.35 percent, Ewing said.

But in the end this is moot, technology will do away with this problem in ten years.

What do you mean by this?

 

[StrikeS2k]

This ##### killed my aunt and uncle.

Man charged with couple's death in crash
Mercer County incident is his fourth DUI case for 2003.
January 13, 2004|By Manuel Gamiz Jr. Of The Morning Call
Joseph C. Stemple Jr., a Bethlehem man with three drunken driving arrests in early 2003, was charged Monday with killing a couple in a drunken driving crash in western Pennsylvania two months ago, authorities said.

Shenango Township police in Mercer County charged Stemple, 41, of 1314 Lorain Ave., with two counts each of homicide by vehicle and homicide by vehicle while driving under the influence, five counts of reckless endangerment and a count of drunken driving.

Shenango Township Police Chief Ron Preston said he expects Stemple, the son of the Whitpain Township police chief in Montgomery County, to turn himself in Wednesday.

According to Shenango police, Stemple drove the wrong way on Route 60 in the township on Nov. 5 and his vehicle hit a vehicle transporting Norma Romanio, 73, and Donald Romanio, 69, of New Castle.

Norma Romanio was killed instantly, and her husband died later at St. Elizabeth Hospital in Youngstown, Ohio, township police said. Stemple, who was headed to Cleveland before he crashed, was treated for injuries at the same hospital.

Preston said Stemple's blood-alcohol ratio was more than 0.3 percent.

It was the fourth time Stemple was behind the wheel in a drunken driving crash in 2003, and his blood-alcohol ratio in all of them was more than three times what the state considers the limit, according to police.

Despite having his first drunken driving arrest in February, Stemple had a valid driver's license until last week, when he surrendered it to authorities after pleading guilty Friday to two Montgomery County drunken driving arrests.

John Gradel, a Montgomery County assistant district attorney, said driving privileges are suspended upon a drunken driving conviction, not an arrest.

Upon entering a guilty plea in Montgomery County, Stemple was sentenced to 30 days to 23 months in jail, a $300 fine, traffic safety classes and an evaluation to determine outpatient counseling needs, according to court records.

East Norriton police said Stemple, living in Blue Bell at the time, struck a car with his on Feb. 13 in a shopping center parking lot on Germantown Pike, failed three field sobriety tests and had a blood-alcohol ratio of 0.36 percent, according to court documents.

Pottstown police Capt. Allan Ewing said Stemple was charged with drunken driving and careless driving after his vehicle rear-ended a vehicle that was stopped at a traffic light on Route 100 on May 1.

Two occupants in the other vehicle complained of neck pain, and Stemple registered a blood-alcohol ratio of 0.35 percent, Ewing said.

But in the end this is moot, technology will do away with this problem in ten years.

What do you mean by this?

Probably means autonomous cars.

 

[NutterButter]

This ##### killed my aunt and uncle.

Man charged with couple's death in crash
Mercer County incident is his fourth DUI case for 2003.
January 13, 2004|By Manuel Gamiz Jr. Of The Morning Call
Joseph C. Stemple Jr., a Bethlehem man with three drunken driving arrests in early 2003, was charged Monday with killing a couple in a drunken driving crash in western Pennsylvania two months ago, authorities said.

Shenango Township police in Mercer County charged Stemple, 41, of 1314 Lorain Ave., with two counts each of homicide by vehicle and homicide by vehicle while driving under the influence, five counts of reckless endangerment and a count of drunken driving.

Shenango Township Police Chief Ron Preston said he expects Stemple, the son of the Whitpain Township police chief in Montgomery County, to turn himself in Wednesday.

According to Shenango police, Stemple drove the wrong way on Route 60 in the township on Nov. 5 and his vehicle hit a vehicle transporting Norma Romanio, 73, and Donald Romanio, 69, of New Castle.

Norma Romanio was killed instantly, and her husband died later at St. Elizabeth Hospital in Youngstown, Ohio, township police said. Stemple, who was headed to Cleveland before he crashed, was treated for injuries at the same hospital.

Preston said Stemple's blood-alcohol ratio was more than 0.3 percent.

It was the fourth time Stemple was behind the wheel in a drunken driving crash in 2003, and his blood-alcohol ratio in all of them was more than three times what the state considers the limit, according to police.

Despite having his first drunken driving arrest in February, Stemple had a valid driver's license until last week, when he surrendered it to authorities after pleading guilty Friday to two Montgomery County drunken driving arrests.

John Gradel, a Montgomery County assistant district attorney, said driving privileges are suspended upon a drunken driving conviction, not an arrest.

Upon entering a guilty plea in Montgomery County, Stemple was sentenced to 30 days to 23 months in jail, a $300 fine, traffic safety classes and an evaluation to determine outpatient counseling needs, according to court records.

East Norriton police said Stemple, living in Blue Bell at the time, struck a car with his on Feb. 13 in a shopping center parking lot on Germantown Pike, failed three field sobriety tests and had a blood-alcohol ratio of 0.36 percent, according to court documents.

Pottstown police Capt. Allan Ewing said Stemple was charged with drunken driving and careless driving after his vehicle rear-ended a vehicle that was stopped at a traffic light on Route 100 on May 1.

Two occupants in the other vehicle complained of neck pain, and Stemple registered a blood-alcohol ratio of 0.35 percent, Ewing said.

But in the end this is moot, technology will do away with this problem in ten years.

What do you mean by this?

Probably means autonomous cars.

Would make sense. That's going to be nice.

 

[Fat Nick]

I'm torn on this. I voted 3. I feel like 1 or 2 is excessive. You get an "oops," and then maybe 1 legitimate "f-up," but the 3rd one is a trend.

The reason I'm torn is I've seen what not having a drivers license can do to someone. (NOT trying to minimize the damage that 1 drunk driver can do. It's just a tough balancing act) I had a guy who used to work for me at the cell phone store. He was in his mid 30's, and recovering from addiction (alcohol and drugs). He basically spent most of his 20's in a drunk/drugged state, and was arrested for DUI multiple times, hit-and-run (of a parked car, not a person), and lots of other things. His license was suspended for 8 years when I hired him. At that point, he'd been clean for 2 years, and basically he begged me for a job. He was very up-front. He said that he had a ton of court fees and fines, and a suspended license. Getting a job to actually pay off the fees was next to impossible. He owned a little scooter that he could legally drive to work. Even in the winter, that was how he rolled.

It was sad because he was a good guy who made a lot of bad decisions when he was young that he couldn't ever get over. He had turned himself around and was basically an AA/NA advocate and very active with helping others, but he couldn't get out from that shadow. I don't honestly know how someone could have ever paid off the fees he owed and held down a job with no license. I later found out that he unfortunately relapsed, and got arrested for shoplifting and ended up hanging himself in the holding cell. Sad.

As sad as that story is, and it is sad....not having a driver's license potentially saved him a few hundred a month in a car payment + ridiculous auto insurance rates.

Very true...but it also limited him to jobs within like a 5 mile radius of the town he lived in. He could've made a lot more closer to the city. The guy could sell ice to an eskimo. Great salesman.

But shouldn't he have to pay a price for his mistakes?

Absolutely. The real question is what is a "fair price?" In this case, the guy clearly learned the error of his ways, and had stopped drinking completely. He was working to pay back money he owed and never disputed it or dodged it. He even was helping others in his situation. A lot of his stress was caused by paying for his mistakes, long after he had learned his lesson and had matured. Ultimately, this payment was a big part of what probably caused him to relapse. It also creates "no win" situations where people just don't care anymore.

Not saying you don't have to pay for your mistakes, but at some point, "good behavior" should be recognized.

 

[KCitons]

I think anything after the 1st time should result in public hanging. We give people too many 2nd chances. (this applies to speeding, reckless driving, texting while driving, etc) Before anyone says "that's too harsh", I don't give a ####. If a person can't learn from their first mistake, then they obviously don't give a #### about anyone else.

My FIL currently has his license suspended for 15 years. It was his 3rd DUI in 10-15 years. (fourth in the 25 years my wife and I have been married). I don't recall his first offense. But, I don't remember him spending any time in jail or losing his license. His second offense, he lost his license for 90 days and it cost him his job at the Post Office. A few years later, his third offense got him a 1 year suspension and he lost his job at a Convenience store. His most recent one he was still licensed and delivering newspapers, he was twice the legal limit at 2:30pm. On his way to pick up newspapers for delivery.

Get a rope, I'll find a tree.

 

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I'd like to see some sort of compensation for tolerance levels at the fringe cases IMO.... but it would have to be qualitative, not "officer jimbo observed X".

0.10+ - quantitative test for impairment (reaction time or some other non-subjective measure of impairment)

0.15+ - auto penalty

0.20+ - auto significant penalty (ie penalty + bigger fine, longer suspension, jail time, etc)

Penalty scales based on offense like discussed above... and should include treatment of some sort as part of the package... assistance on top of punitive side of things.

 

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I think anything after the 1st time should result in public hanging. We give people too many 2nd chances. (this applies to speeding, reckless driving, texting while driving, etc)

2nd speeding ticket punishable by death... I've seen it all