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How much do you think coaches matter in the NFL? (1 Viewer)

Brunell4MVP

Footballguy
With the game being passing dominant now, my opinion is the Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator is the #2 most important thing you can have. #1 being a quarterback at the peak of their career that can make plays on their own. I don't think you can win 11+ games a year anymore without a McVay, Reed, Shanny, Payton, or similar coach that has creativity on the offensive end to use whatever weapons are at their disposal. A defensive background coach no matter how good of a person or solid an organizer just doesn't cut it (Tomlin, Rivera, Bowles). What think you all?
 
A lot. All you have to do is watch regressive dinosaur-tendency OC’s like Leftwich week in and week out and you’ll see it.

On the opposite side of the tracks, you have an extremely well-coached team that is disciplined and almost immaculate in their situational football decision-making in the Giants, and you see how it can have a positive effect.
 
A lot. All you have to do is watch regressive dinosaur-tendency OC’s like Leftwich week in and week out and you’ll see it.

On the opposite side of the tracks, you have an extremely well-coached team that is disciplined and almost immaculate in their situational football decision-making in the Giants, and you see how it can have a positive effect.
I didn't think much of the Giants at the start of the season, but I’ll admit I was very wrong.
 
A lot. All you have to do is watch regressive dinosaur-tendency OC’s like Leftwich week in and week out and you’ll see it.

On the opposite side of the tracks, you have an extremely well-coached team that is disciplined and almost immaculate in their situational football decision-making in the Giants, and you see how it can have a positive effect.
I didn't think much of the Giants at the start of the season, but I’ll admit I was very wrong.

I think anyone who said they saw this coming would be a liar—but many loved the hires they made and thought they’d eventually end up here. They’ve just cleaned up so many problems that bad teams have so quickly that it’s showing up in the W/L column of close games immediately.

I still don’t think it’s sustainable just due to their offensive limitations, but they have Daniel Jones playing within his skill-set and they don’t make killer mistakes on the level that poorly coached teams do. They’re scrappy, smart, play their asses off, and make good decisions and adjustments. That all leads back to coaching and it’s paying early dividends. As they add talent over the years they’ll be in a great position. They are basically what Dan Campbell wants to tell you that the Lions are.
 
With the game being passing dominant now, my opinion is the Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator is the #2 most important thing you can have. #1 being a quarterback at the peak of their career that can make plays on their own. I don't think you can win 11+ games a year anymore without a McVay, Reed, Shanny, Payton, or similar coach that has creativity on the offensive end to use whatever weapons are at their disposal. A defensive background coach no matter how good of a person or solid an organizer just doesn't cut it (Tomlin, Rivera, Bowles). What think you all?
Sean McDermott disagrees
 
I agree that too 5 qb is the most important thing.

I’m not totally sure that offensive head coach is the most important. This year we have seen somewhat of a rebound by defensive coordinators (the athletic nfl show did a great pod on this a few days ago).

I agree that you will probably ultimately not win without really smart offensive coaching, which the bills still seem to have in ken Dorsey and of course they have a top 5 qb, so they can still make it work with a defensive head coach. I don’t think having a defensive minded head coach is a problem as long as the whole staff is on the same page. I don’t think Rivera’s problem is that he a is a defensive coach. He just has no qb.
 
A lot. All you have to do is watch regressive dinosaur-tendency OC’s like Leftwich week in and week out and you’ll see it.

On the opposite side of the tracks, you have an extremely well-coached team that is disciplined and almost immaculate in their situational football decision-making in the Giants, and you see how it can have a positive effect.
Bruce Arians deserves a lot more credit for that Super Bowl win than I thought. Man, this offense is truly abysmal without him. Just brutal play calling. Couple that with horrible in game management, and you have an extremely talented team that's on the verge of quitting.
 
See: Hackett

The Broncos have had egregious mistakes in terms of clock management, down and distance decision making, and handling of personnel.

IMO Hackett has cost the Broncos 4 games, at least.

Russ is worthy of much of the blame for the Broncos lack of success, but you put BB or Daboll as HC of the Broncos & they’re likely right in the thick of the AFC West.
 
A lot. All you have to do is watch regressive dinosaur-tendency OC’s like Leftwich week in and week out and you’ll see it.

On the opposite side of the tracks, you have an extremely well-coached team that is disciplined and almost immaculate in their situational football decision-making in the Giants, and you see how it can have a positive effect.
Bruce Arians deserves a lot more credit for that Super Bowl win than I thought. Man, this offense is truly abysmal without him. Just brutal play calling. Couple that with horrible in game management, and you have an extremely talented team that's on the verge of quitting.
half their O-line & important pieces of their defense getting hurt didn’t help.
 
See: Hackett

The Broncos have had egregious mistakes in terms of clock management, down and distance decision making, and handling of personnel.

IMO Hackett has cost the Broncos 4 games, at least.

Russ is worthy of much of the blame for the Broncos lack of success, but you put BB or Daboll as HC of the Broncos & they’re likely right in the thick of the AFC West.
Hackett's decision not to play the starters in pre season was awful. Not only did they have a new QB, they also had all new first time coaches at their positions. He should have hired more veteran coached to help smooth the transition. How many times have the Broncos looked "ok" in the first half and then struggle in the second half. Hackett is being outcoached in every game.

The Broncos are an absolute broken team right now. They have been devastated with injuries to star players. The offensive line is a disaster. The coaching at all levels except defense has been horrific. They have no running game. The receivers can't get open and when they do they drop the ball. I believe a competent coaching staff either would have never let things get this bad or they would have made adjustment to make things at least tolerable.

Hackett lost this team week 1 and it has just continued to spiral out of control. He has built up no goodwill and is a dead man walking right now. I thought for sure I would wake up this morning to see he was fired. The irony is that this coaching staff is so bad Paton probably doesn't feel comfortable with who might replace him.

BTW..Melvin Gordon should have been released after week 4 with or without the J Williams injury. He should never have been brought back in the first place. This was on George Paton who is quickly falling from his elite status.
 
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I look at the talent on the Raiders offensive line and see that they have managed to produce the league's leading rusher and Carr has only been sacked 22 times in 11 games.

So much of that is scheme covering for talent. Raiders O-Line coach = NFL MVP
 
Bruce Arians deserves a lot more credit for that Super Bowl win than I thought. Man, this offense is truly abysmal without him. Just brutal play calling. Couple that with horrible in game management, and you have an extremely talented team that's on the verge of quitting.
Losing a significant portion of your O-Line is a as much or more of a factor in their performance this year
 
Coaching is under-appreciated IMO. Look at the AFC West as an example... on paper, pre-season, THEY ARE ALL making the play-offs. Then the bullets start flying and, "Oh yeah... Chiefs are the only one with a solid, proven HC"

Detroit is another example... I give Dan Campbell all the credit in the world as a motivator and helping to change the culture there... and now he has to go (or stay on in a lesser role). He is terrible at managing the clock and situational football. Again, full credit for turning that ship around, but I believe that Detroit needs a seasoned, proven HC to take that next step. And they're far from being the only team in this situation.
 
I look at the talent on the Raiders offensive line and see that they have managed to produce the league's leading rusher and Carr has only been sacked 22 times in 11 games.

So much of that is scheme covering for talent. Raiders O-Line coach = NFL MVP
2021-1st RD 17th Pick-Alex Leatherwood was sent packing before the '22 season even started, thought that was pretty ballsy but the results despite many losses seem to indicate they knew what they were doing in terms of the OL and personnel they wanted to make it work in their system.
 
Coaching is under-appreciated IMO. Look at the AFC West as an example... on paper, pre-season, THEY ARE ALL making the play-offs. Then the bullets start flying and, "Oh yeah... Chiefs are the only one with a solid, proven HC"

Detroit is another example... I give Dan Campbell all the credit in the world as a motivator and helping to change the culture there... and now he has to go (or stay on in a lesser role). He is terrible at managing the clock and situational football. Again, full credit for turning that ship around, but I believe that Detroit needs a seasoned, proven HC to take that next step. And they're far from being the only team in this situation.
Who would you like to see Detroit hire?

Lions sitting on Rams No 1 pick which right now is 3...I know people like to laugh at the Rams but they pushed all their chips in and have a Lombardi Trophy to show for it if anyone is interested, think they might have it on display because they WON the SUPER BOWL...that's the goal in the NFL, not to build a good but never quite great team and never sniff a Super Bowl.
Not directed at you Dizzy, just feel like it doesn't get mentioned enough.

Alright but be that as it may, Lions have the 3rd overall pick as of this morning and a pretty solid team, is Goff the guy to get them into the Playoffs?
Time to draft a QB and they will need a shrewd OC/HC that can work with what they have already minus the QB, it has to be someone who won't tear down this rebuild which is why I think DC comes back for Year 3 before they do anything rash. It's Detroit we're talking about, slow to usually make a move. Campbell has them playing well.
 
Coaching is under-appreciated IMO. Look at the AFC West as an example... on paper, pre-season, THEY ARE ALL making the play-offs. Then the bullets start flying and, "Oh yeah... Chiefs are the only one with a solid, proven HC"

Detroit is another example... I give Dan Campbell all the credit in the world as a motivator and helping to change the culture there... and now he has to go (or stay on in a lesser role). He is terrible at managing the clock and situational football. Again, full credit for turning that ship around, but I believe that Detroit needs a seasoned, proven HC to take that next step. And they're far from being the only team in this situation.
It's hard to judge Campbell for his results when he has Jared Goff at QB. Ben Johnson isn't a very good OC and doesn't have much of a track record for success either. His years in Miami, in a limited capacity, didn't exactly scream hire me. The Lions as a whole don't seem to have a lot going at their skills positions and I think that is more the problem than Dan Campbell. I think with decent drafting they are in a very winnable division and will probably find that Ben Johnson just isn't a very good offensive coordinator. His years in Miami under Philbin and Adam Gase, Miami was in the bottom 5% of the league on offense.
 
Bruce Arians deserves a lot more credit for that Super Bowl win than I thought. Man, this offense is truly abysmal without him. Just brutal play calling. Couple that with horrible in game management, and you have an extremely talented team that's on the verge of quitting.
Losing a significant portion of your O-Line is a as much or more of a factor in their performance this year
It's a factor, but they are woefully predictable on offense, and the original post I quoted was absolutely spot on. They are running a stone age style offense. Inexplicably.
 
Coaching is under-appreciated IMO. Look at the AFC West as an example... on paper, pre-season, THEY ARE ALL making the play-offs. Then the bullets start flying and, "Oh yeah... Chiefs are the only one with a solid, proven HC"

Detroit is another example... I give Dan Campbell all the credit in the world as a motivator and helping to change the culture there... and now he has to go (or stay on in a lesser role). He is terrible at managing the clock and situational football. Again, full credit for turning that ship around, but I believe that Detroit needs a seasoned, proven HC to take that next step. And they're far from being the only team in this situation.
Who would you like to see Detroit hire?

Lions sitting on Rams No 1 pick which right now is 3...I know people like to laugh at the Rams but they pushed all their chips in and have a Lombardi Trophy to show for it if anyone is interested, think they might have it on display because they WON the SUPER BOWL...that's the goal in the NFL, not to build a good but never quite great team and never sniff a Super Bowl.
Not directed at you Dizzy, just feel like it doesn't get mentioned enough.

Alright but be that as it may, Lions have the 3rd overall pick as of this morning and a pretty solid team, is Goff the guy to get them into the Playoffs?
Time to draft a QB and they will need a shrewd OC/HC that can work with what they have already minus the QB, it has to be someone who won't tear down this rebuild which is why I think DC comes back for Year 3 before they do anything rash. It's Detroit we're talking about, slow to usually make a move. Campbell has them playing well.

Fully agree... Campbell has them playing well. If that's the goal, then mission accomplished for Detroit. They have consistently crumbled during crunch time over the past two seasons. And a lot of that is on the HC IMO.

Look at the Chargers... probably a Super Bowl contender with a good HC. Instead, if there is a way to lose... their HC will find it and use it... then sit there at 0.500 and expect to be patted on the back and told to "stay aggressive"
 
Ben Johnson is about to be one of the hottest off-season interviews for HC positions, for the person who said he wasn’t very good. Look at the offense he’s generating with Goff mainly throwing to a 5’8” WR1, with their top-10 pick WR on the shelf and Hock traded. Creative run game (no matter how much it pisses off Swift fantasy managers), uses the players he has for the talents they possess.
 
Ben Johnson is about to be one of the hottest off-season interviews for HC positions, for the person who said he wasn’t very good. Look at the offense he’s generating with Goff mainly throwing to a 5’8” WR1, with their top-10 pick WR on the shelf and Hock traded. Creative run game (no matter how much it pisses off Swift fantasy managers), uses the players he has for the talents they possess.

he’s highly respected, teams have been trying to pouch him for awhile (one of I think 2 holdovers fm the prior regime)

hope he gets a shot bc one of the more creative offensive minds in the game

draws up some great screens and his run blocking schemes are a thing of beauty

does a nice job putting Goff into manageable situations
 
They matter a lot. In-game management, overall morale, delegation of duties to coordinators, relationship to GM, I can go on and on.

In terms of when the game is played on the field, the players matter the most. Coaches can only do so much on game-day. Adjustments on the fly, in-game time management, overall management and adjusting to the "flow"' of the game...etc.
 
Coaching is under-appreciated IMO. Look at the AFC West as an example... on paper, pre-season, THEY ARE ALL making the play-offs. Then the bullets start flying and, "Oh yeah... Chiefs are the only one with a solid, proven HC"

Detroit is another example... I give Dan Campbell all the credit in the world as a motivator and helping to change the culture there... and now he has to go (or stay on in a lesser role). He is terrible at managing the clock and situational football. Again, full credit for turning that ship around, but I believe that Detroit needs a seasoned, proven HC to take that next step. And they're far from being the only team in this situation.
It's hard to judge Campbell for his results when he has Jared Goff at QB. Ben Johnson isn't a very good OC and doesn't have much of a track record for success either. His years in Miami, in a limited capacity, didn't exactly scream hire me. The Lions as a whole don't seem to have a lot going at their skills positions and I think that is more the problem than Dan Campbell. I think with decent drafting they are in a very winnable division and will probably find that Ben Johnson just isn't a very good offensive coordinator. His years in Miami under Philbin and Adam Gase, Miami was in the bottom 5% of the league on offense.
Adam Gase was awful in Chicago.

i think Ben Johnson has done a very good job in Detroit. they have a very solid running game with little from Swift. They have a pretty respectable passing game with their top pick out for the year.
 
Coaching is under-appreciated IMO. Look at the AFC West as an example... on paper, pre-season, THEY ARE ALL making the play-offs. Then the bullets start flying and, "Oh yeah... Chiefs are the only one with a solid, proven HC"

Detroit is another example... I give Dan Campbell all the credit in the world as a motivator and helping to change the culture there... and now he has to go (or stay on in a lesser role). He is terrible at managing the clock and situational football. Again, full credit for turning that ship around, but I believe that Detroit needs a seasoned, proven HC to take that next step. And they're far from being the only team in this situation.
Chiefs are also the only one with a top 5 QB
 
Warren Sharp on the BS report the other day was saying that he has recommended to multiple teams before that all their coaches should be taking crisis management courses in the offseason. Because that is essentially what you have to do on gameday. That is really where the coaches often fail, making the right quick decisions under tremendous pressure and quick changes.
 
Coaching is under-appreciated IMO. Look at the AFC West as an example... on paper, pre-season, THEY ARE ALL making the play-offs. Then the bullets start flying and, "Oh yeah... Chiefs are the only one with a solid, proven HC"

Detroit is another example... I give Dan Campbell all the credit in the world as a motivator and helping to change the culture there... and now he has to go (or stay on in a lesser role). He is terrible at managing the clock and situational football. Again, full credit for turning that ship around, but I believe that Detroit needs a seasoned, proven HC to take that next step. And they're far from being the only team in this situation.
Chiefs are also the only one with a top 5 QB

Not sure I agree with you here... Herbert is terrific.

Carr is pretty good as well. And several teams - not just Denver - thought Russell could still cook.
 
Coaching is under-appreciated IMO. Look at the AFC West as an example... on paper, pre-season, THEY ARE ALL making the play-offs. Then the bullets start flying and, "Oh yeah... Chiefs are the only one with a solid, proven HC"

Detroit is another example... I give Dan Campbell all the credit in the world as a motivator and helping to change the culture there... and now he has to go (or stay on in a lesser role). He is terrible at managing the clock and situational football. Again, full credit for turning that ship around, but I believe that Detroit needs a seasoned, proven HC to take that next step. And they're far from being the only team in this situation.
Chiefs are also the only one with a top 5 QB

Not sure I agree with you here... Herbert is terrific.

Carr is pretty good as well. And several teams - not just Denver - thought Russell could still cook.
probably fair on Herbert. It does seem like the coaching there is dragging them down.

Carr and Russ, meh. I wouldn't include them in the list of elite QBs.
 
I used to think is was a lot. But then I noticed the record of one of the most highly regarded coaches of all time's record both pre and post Brady. QB is the #1 thing, and only a few teams have one.
 
I think the best way to answer the question is coaches don't matter until they do. NE is the perfect example. They have BB, so on the surface it would seem they should be all set. But they don't have an OC or a DC. The offense (as well as the QB and OL) are getting managed by two coaches who never coached offense before, and the defense is partly getting managed by BB's son. In NE's case, this makes the answer to the original question "A LOT." The Patriots are suffering from being woefully outcoached and unprepared . . . which is the last thing you would expect from a BB coached team.
 
A LOT.

If I’ve had one takeaway looking in on opinions on NFL, as a British person that knows a lot of sports inside out, that became an NFL fan, it’s that NFL fans consistently underrate external factors outside of the QB the first namely being coaching and thus schemes, but also including surrounding talent and everything else that extends out from the GM
 
Coaching certainly matters a lot in the NFL but I would rank it third in importance behind QB and GM/Player personnel.

Even the best Head Coaches will not succeed without the right players. We're seeing that in NE now. I don't think there's any doubt that BB is a great Head Coach but he's a below average player personnel evaluator and was bailed out because he had the GOAT at QB for most of his career.
 
Coaching certainly matters a lot in the NFL but I would rank it third in importance behind QB and GM/Player personnel.

Even the best Head Coaches will not succeed without the right players. We're seeing that in NE now. I don't think there's any doubt that BB is a great Head Coach but he's a below average player personnel evaluator and was bailed out because he had the GOAT at QB for most of his career.
That last section is a bit of an over generalization. For starters, I think for NE's first three titles, Brady was bailed out by a GOAT coach and team builder and was mostly a passenger. BB took a bunch of retreads, made some great draft picks, and established an elite defense. The Pats won early on due to a great defense and a strong running game, with some timely contributions from Brady. He was a judicious game manager that made some big plays on occasion, but they needed him mostly to not turn the ball over. But Brady was not the primary reason NE was winning in those early years,

In the 10 years in the middle, Brady carried the team and NE tried a lot harder to turn the offense into a super power. In what should have been Brady's prime years, NE didn't win. That's one of the oddest things about the NE / BB / TB story. They invested a lot on the offensive side of the ball, but that wasn't enough. A number of years the defense suffered because of it. By the second NE run, there's no doubt that Brady was the main cog on the team, but BB had done plenty to have pieces around Brady to help him succeed. But BB's game plan won them their last SB against LAR. The offense did hardly anything, and the defense totally derailed the high flying Rams offense (for the second time in the SB).

BB "the below average player personnel evaluator" drafted / brought in / coached multiple current and future HOFers, turned no names and retreads into All Pro and Pro Bowl level players, and has been the single greatest salary cap manager in the 27 years of the salary cap. None of that is really opinion, as all of those things are essentially facts.

If people want to suggest that Brady was first on the list of the things that made NE great and the biggest piece in a near 20-year run of success, I have no problem with that. But the list of all the things that made NE great is pretty long, and Brady can't stake claim to all the other reasons. If folks want to say that BB is not at good at picking players or signing free agents that fit in the current state of the NFL, I have no problem with that either. But to suggest that's always been seems off base.

NE under BB drafted Brady, Seymour, Light, Branch, Samuel, Wilfork, Mankins, Gostkowski, Mayo, McCourty, Gronk, Hernandez, Chandler Jones, Hightower, etc. He took guys they had and made them better players (Law, Bruschi, McGinnest, Faulk, Vinatieri, Vrabel). He added big pieces without giving up much (Dillon, Moss, Welker, Revis, Talib). Sure, Brady was the main attraction, but NE wasn't winning titles without a long list of other big contributors. Yes, Brady "bailed out" the team many times, but the coaching, the roster, the defense, and many players bailed out Brady on a regular basis, too.
 
Coaching certainly matters a lot in the NFL but I would rank it third in importance behind QB and GM/Player personnel.

Even the best Head Coaches will not succeed without the right players. We're seeing that in NE now. I don't think there's any doubt that BB is a great Head Coach but he's a below average player personnel evaluator and was bailed out because he had the GOAT at QB for most of his career.
That last section is a bit of an over generalization. For starters, I think for NE's first three titles, Brady was bailed out by a GOAT coach and team builder and was mostly a passenger. BB took a bunch of retreads, made some great draft picks, and established an elite defense. The Pats won early on due to a great defense and a strong running game, with some timely contributions from Brady. He was a judicious game manager that made some big plays on occasion, but they needed him mostly to not turn the ball over. But Brady was not the primary reason NE was winning in those early years,

In the 10 years in the middle, Brady carried the team and NE tried a lot harder to turn the offense into a super power. In what should have been Brady's prime years, NE didn't win. That's one of the oddest things about the NE / BB / TB story. They invested a lot on the offensive side of the ball, but that wasn't enough. A number of years the defense suffered because of it. By the second NE run, there's no doubt that Brady was the main cog on the team, but BB had done plenty to have pieces around Brady to help him succeed. But BB's game plan won them their last SB against LAR. The offense did hardly anything, and the defense totally derailed the high flying Rams offense (for the second time in the SB).

BB "the below average player personnel evaluator" drafted / brought in / coached multiple current and future HOFers, turned no names and retreads into All Pro and Pro Bowl level players, and has been the single greatest salary cap manager in the 27 years of the salary cap. None of that is really opinion, as all of those things are essentially facts.

If people want to suggest that Brady was first on the list of the things that made NE great and the biggest piece in a near 20-year run of success, I have no problem with that. But the list of all the things that made NE great is pretty long, and Brady can't stake claim to all the other reasons. If folks want to say that BB is not at good at picking players or signing free agents that fit in the current state of the NFL, I have no problem with that either. But to suggest that's always been seems off base.

NE under BB drafted Brady, Seymour, Light, Branch, Samuel, Wilfork, Mankins, Gostkowski, Mayo, McCourty, Gronk, Hernandez, Chandler Jones, Hightower, etc. He took guys they had and made them better players (Law, Bruschi, McGinnest, Faulk, Vinatieri, Vrabel). He added big pieces without giving up much (Dillon, Moss, Welker, Revis, Talib). Sure, Brady was the main attraction, but NE wasn't winning titles without a long list of other big contributors. Yes, Brady "bailed out" the team many times, but the coaching, the roster, the defense, and many players bailed out Brady on a regular basis, too.
So what's BBs excuse now? Hiring his son and having Matt Patricia lead the offense? That's all on him. Brady won without BB. Tell me what BB has won without Brady.
 
coaches matter. Everyone says what's up with Bills they don't look the ssame as last season.hmm.Brian Daboll is missing, that's what.
Pats look like the little guy with short man's disease that pumps his chest and acts 'big' but in reality they suck.bad. can anypone name a coach on either side of the ball in NE? other than BB?

Saturday and Reich suck, with those weapons, that o-line, this is the best they can do?!
the bears suck because hiring a dude named eeeeeberfllusssss is never a good idea. the previous HC wasn't a good idea either. hackett sucks in denver. bill parcells is like 90 years old, I bet he could win 10 games with that roster. chargers coaching staff is a joke. they'll lose to a doormat one week, then beat the chiefs the next. so inconsistent.
TB hired Todd Bowles..anyone from NY/NJ recognize the same nonsense with the Bus that we saw with the Jets? bad coach.bad hire. guys like him should'nt have been given a 2nd chance. bad like Herm Edwards bad. or Brian Schottenheimer bad. like you want to say to Bowles, ' have you tried tennis or badminton yet?' he clearly can't be a head coach. Ray Handley bad.
the problem isn't so much with the coaches but with the front offices. I still think kyle shanahan was a bad hire. ok one SB visit, absolute RUBBISH ever since. the bigger the game, the more shanny's son chokes. I'm still not sold mccarthy was a good hire in big d. how long is mcvay and the GM going to last in L.A., now without high draft picks in 2023? team is old, needs a lot of help. they got their sb and 5 years of rebuilding to go with it!! good job! sean payton was a camera whore as a coach always looking for the camera so it was on him.but he was decent as a hc. dennis allen?? i said this in preseason this is one of the worst HCs in the entire league look at his pathetic history as an NFL hc..is Mcdermott any good in buffalo? i dunno.weak afc least up to this season meant he always won the division, had a home game,etc. but i never see the bills win the big game.
marv levy was a terrific hc ran in to 4 buzz saws in the SB. he wasn't beating the NYG in 1990 norwood kick or not they weren't winning. they weren't beating the 'Skins, not a team in NFL history was going to beat them.same with the cowboys 2x.
 
If you told me the titans could have Malik Willis and Vrabel or Patrick Mahomes and Nathaniel hacket, I’m taking Vrabel every time. Especially over the long haul.
I think HC is the most important thing in the league, assuming your GM and owner aren’t grossly incompetent.
 
Coaching is under-appreciated IMO. Look at the AFC West as an example... on paper, pre-season, THEY ARE ALL making the play-offs. Then the bullets start flying and, "Oh yeah... Chiefs are the only one with a solid, proven HC"

Detroit is another example... I give Dan Campbell all the credit in the world as a motivator and helping to change the culture there... and now he has to go (or stay on in a lesser role). He is terrible at managing the clock and situational football. Again, full credit for turning that ship around, but I believe that Detroit needs a seasoned, proven HC to take that next step. And they're far from being the only team in this situation.
Chiefs are also the only one with a top 5 QB
Herbert could be, I think he would be with a good coach. Carr isn’t bad, probably on par with tannehill. And the players on the raiders have talent. But their coach 🤔
 
Coaching certainly matters a lot in the NFL but I would rank it third in importance behind QB and GM/Player personnel.

Even the best Head Coaches will not succeed without the right players. We're seeing that in NE now. I don't think there's any doubt that BB is a great Head Coach but he's a below average player personnel evaluator and was bailed out because he had the GOAT at QB for most of his career.


NE under BB drafted Brady, Seymour, Light, Branch, Samuel, Wilfork, Mankins, Gostkowski, Mayo, McCourty, Gronk, Hernandez, Chandler Jones, Hightower, etc. He took guys they had and made them better players (Law, Bruschi, McGinnest, Faulk, Vinatieri, Vrabel). He added big pieces without giving up much (Dillon, Moss, Welker, Revis, Talib). Sure, Brady was the main attraction, but NE wasn't winning titles without a long list of other big contributors. Yes, Brady "bailed out" the team many times, but the coaching, the roster, the defense, and many players bailed out Brady on a regular basis, too.
With the exception of the deadly Brady/Gronk combo you could probably cherry pick the best draft picks for most NFL teams over the past 22 years and come up with a similar or better list. Also, how many of those were picked while Scott Pioli was there. Without doing any research (just going by memory) it seems to me like the overall quality of their drafts went down after Pioli left. As far as making players better, that speaks to his Head coaching ability (which I said was great). He does a great job of getting the most out of the players he has, no question.
 
Coaching certainly matters a lot in the NFL but I would rank it third in importance behind QB and GM/Player personnel.

Even the best Head Coaches will not succeed without the right players. We're seeing that in NE now. I don't think there's any doubt that BB is a great Head Coach but he's a below average player personnel evaluator and was bailed out because he had the GOAT at QB for most of his career.


NE under BB drafted Brady, Seymour, Light, Branch, Samuel, Wilfork, Mankins, Gostkowski, Mayo, McCourty, Gronk, Hernandez, Chandler Jones, Hightower, etc. He took guys they had and made them better players (Law, Bruschi, McGinnest, Faulk, Vinatieri, Vrabel). He added big pieces without giving up much (Dillon, Moss, Welker, Revis, Talib). Sure, Brady was the main attraction, but NE wasn't winning titles without a long list of other big contributors. Yes, Brady "bailed out" the team many times, but the coaching, the roster, the defense, and many players bailed out Brady on a regular basis, too.
With the exception of the deadly Brady/Gronk combo you could probably cherry pick the best draft picks for most NFL teams over the past 22 years and come up with a similar or better list. Also, how many of those were picked while Scott Pioli was there. Without doing any research (just going by memory) it seems to me like the overall quality of their drafts went down after Pioli left. As far as making players better, that speaks to his Head coaching ability (which I said was great). He does a great job of getting the most out of the players he has, no question.
Since you brought up draft results, I looked up info on all draft picks since 2000. I tabulated how many players went on to have career AV scores of 100 (which doesn't happen all that often) and career AV scores of 50 (which in the grand scheme of things is a decent pick in any draft). Clearly this gives more weight to older drafts, as newer players have not played enough to make the list. There were 385 drafted players that scored 50+ career AV points . . . which using basic math would seem to indicate an expected average would be 12 players (385 divided by 32 teams).

Here is the breakdown by team. The smaller number in the number of players that had a career AV of 100+ and the larger number is the number of players that had a career AV of 50+. Note that the value scores are over a player's career, not what they scored for the team that drafted the player.

Code:
GBP    1    21
NOS    1    19
NEP    2    17
KCC    1    17
IND    1    16
PIT    1    16
NYJ    0    16
CIN    3    15
ARI    1    15
DAL    1    15
BAL    3    14
LAC    3    14
HOU    1    14
PHI    0    13
CAR    3    12
MIN    2    12
LAR    1    12
DET    2    11
SEA    2    11
BUF    0    11
SFO    0    11
ATL    1    10
DEN    1    10
JAX    0    10
TEN    0    9
CHI    1    8
NYG    1    8
MIA    0    7
CLE    0    6
TAM    0    6
WAS    0    5
LVR    0    4

Picking almost every year in the late 20's, NE still ended up tied for 3rd with the most players at 50+ career AV scores. GBP led the way, while teams that had a bunch of early picks from year to year did not have many players at all (CLE, TAM, WAS, LVR). G Stephen Neal was an UDFA that NE brought in that reached the 50 career AV mark, and C David Andrews should cross that mark this year as well. Based on all that, it appears N'sE talent evaluation and draft picks were near the top of the league across a broad swath of time. No one will argue that their track record the last several years has been anything but atrocious, or that their drafts were better when Pioli was around (2000 - 2008). None of that changes the state of the team as it stands now, and their drafts the last 5-7 years were poor (which put them in the poor situation they find themselves in today).
 
Coaching is under-appreciated IMO. Look at the AFC West as an example... on paper, pre-season, THEY ARE ALL making the play-offs. Then the bullets start flying and, "Oh yeah... Chiefs are the only one with a solid, proven HC"

Detroit is another example... I give Dan Campbell all the credit in the world as a motivator and helping to change the culture there... and now he has to go (or stay on in a lesser role). He is terrible at managing the clock and situational football. Again, full credit for turning that ship around, but I believe that Detroit needs a seasoned, proven HC to take that next step. And they're far from being the only team in this situation.
It's hard to judge Campbell for his results when he has Jared Goff at QB. Ben Johnson isn't a very good OC and doesn't have much of a track record for success either. His years in Miami, in a limited capacity, didn't exactly scream hire me. The Lions as a whole don't seem to have a lot going at their skills positions and I think that is more the problem than Dan Campbell. I think with decent drafting they are in a very winnable division and will probably find that Ben Johnson just isn't a very good offensive coordinator. His years in Miami under Philbin and Adam Gase, Miami was in the bottom 5% of the league on offense.
Adam Gase was awful in Chicago.

i think Ben Johnson has done a very good job in Detroit. they have a very solid running game with little from Swift. They have a pretty respectable passing game with their top pick out for the year.
Adam Gase was awful everywhere he went, not just Chicago.😉
 

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