How Should Women's Sports Be Defined? (1 Viewer)

[EYLive]

I truly don't care.  If a biological male wants to cross over to play women's sports, whatever.  If a biological female can compete and earn a legitimate spot on a male sports team good for her.

I agree for the most part. If the participants don't care, neither do I. The problem is that the participants (and their parents) will care. Especially when scholarships are at stake.

 

[EYLive]

The gender gap between males and females is shrinking from what it once was.

Is it? Where do you get the idea that the biological gap is shrinking? (genuinely curious if this has been tracked in recent generations)

 

[rockaction]

This situation is a little different than how I took the OP.  It is a fact of life that women don't go out for competitive sports at the same rate that men do, and that's fine.  It is a mis-application of Title IX to use that fact as an axe to cut men's sports.  I don't think football has been a target, but I know sports like wrestling and men's soccer have been.

Sorry. I meant football at lesser schools, and baseball at the school that I went to. I know this is a bit of a digression, but not really. I'm sure that this implicates Title IX and local state con law in some way under either equal protection clauses or substantive due process clauses, varying by federal government and state. 

More broadly, this is a minefield. Letting people determine their own gender and determining their own extra-curricular activities by gender is going to be a disaster. Henry Ford from this board often comments on this, we often butt heads, and he thinks this is a civil rights/individual rights issue while I think it should be a majoritarian/democratic issue. Either way, it implicates law and a whole lot of legal concerns in some way, probably better explained by him, as this is his field of expertise. Conceding this might be his area, I have to state that something seems fundamentally wrong when our democracy can't figure out what to do with this based on pure theory. 

Wisdom sometimes extols logic, sometimes it negates it.  

 

[Wrigley]

we'll allow it

Also met slut bag sil playing on same softball team 

 

[captain_amazing]

Is it? Where do you get the idea that the biological gap is shrinking? (genuinely curious if this has been tracked in recent generations)

Sorry, I was speaking about the social constructs of gender and not about biological sex (and was speaking on the basis of my own opinion and not on any facts our sources).

 

[RokNRole]

I generally define women's sports in one of two ways....

1. Women engaging in sport

ok just one way

 

[Rick James]

I don't believe defining girls'/women's eligibility requirements is easy. But I think boys'/men's descriptors should be dropped in the amateur arena. In my opinion, there is no good reason for those such as Serena Williams, Brittney Griner and Annika Sorenstam to have restrictions as to against whom they may compete. They are elite athletes, and should have been afforded the opportunity to compete against the best throughout their formative years.

I believe the top level of any sport should be open with no restrictions of any sort.  Then there are decisions to be made with respect to the lower levels. You can restrict by sex, size, skill or some combination thereof to allow for the diversity of competition.

Serena would get dominated in the men's league. 

 

[bcdjr1]

If your birth certificate says you are a female then you can play women's sports. If your birth certificate says you are a male then you cannot play women's sports. Sounds pretty simple to me. 

What about people who were born male and have transitioned to female and had their birth certificate adjusted to reflect their new gender? You can do that.

 

[Beef Ravioli]

What about people who were born male and have transitioned to female and had their birth certificate adjusted to reflect their new gender? You can do that.

Does the birth certificate show that it was adjusted?

 

[Sweet J]

I keep asking, and people keep getting upset. 

How should we define assignments such as this? Sex, or gender. 

I get very negative responses to posting issues pertaining to this, but it's a fundamental issue.  

I understand why it's an issue that makes people uptight to talk about.  I wish I could adequately explain why, because I think you are genuinely curious.  

The closest thing I can think to describe it is to say it feels like a red herring.  But that doesn't quite describe it.  

I think maybe your description of it being a "fundamental issue."  I think people would disagree with you that this is indeed a fundamental issue.  I think people would say "where is the harm" that a conversation like this is trying to prevent or address? 

 

[Sweet J]

More broadly, this is a minefield. Letting people determine their own gender and determining their own extra-curricular activities by gender is going to be a disaster. Henry Ford from this board often comments on this, we often butt heads, and he thinks this is a civil rights/individual rights issue while I think it should be a majoritarian/democratic issue. Either way, it implicates law and a whole lot of legal concerns in some way, probably better explained by him, as this is his field of expertise. Conceding this might be his area, I have to state that something seems fundamentally wrong when our democracy can't figure out what to do with this based on pure theory. 

Really? Is is really going to be a "disaster"?  I don't buy it.  I see a lot of conservative boys getting their panties in a lather about this issue.  But I haven't seen a whole lot of actual woman soccer players, lacrosse players, softball players up in arms because a biological male is on their team.  Come on, man.

 

[Sweet J]

Is it? Where do you get the idea that the biological gap is shrinking? (genuinely curious if this has been tracked in recent generations)

well, just playing devil's advocate, I think I read somewhere that women's marathon times were approaching men's.  But that's the only one I've really heard much about. 

 

[rockaction]

I understand why it's an issue that makes people uptight to talk about.  I wish I could adequately explain why, because I think you are genuinely curious.  

The closest thing I can think to describe it is to say it feels like a red herring.  But that doesn't quite describe it.  

I think maybe your description of it being a "fundamental issue."  I think people would disagree with you that this is indeed a fundamental issue.  I think people would say "where is the harm" that a conversation like this is trying to prevent or address? 

When I mean fundamental, I mean intimate.  My poor choice of words sometimes can be confusing, especially when we deal not in colloquialisms, but on the page. 

I think the harm is where somebody trains and works to achieve a goal only to be confronted by the, ahem, rock that is biology. I think that maybe this is an issue that needs addressing.  

 

[bcdjr1]

Does the birth certificate show that it was adjusted?

The policies for changing birth certificates varies from state to state, so I would think it's probably different depending on which state you were born in.

This is what I found for Georgia:

Georgia will amend the sex on a birth certificate "upon receipt of a certified copy of a court order indicating the sex of an individual born in this state has been changed by surgical procedure and that such individual's name has been changed." Ga. Code Ann. § 31-10-23(e). Such birth certificates will be issued as new and not marked as amended.