Transgender boy Mack Beggs wins Texas state girls' wrestling title (1 Viewer)

[Pyscho Wife]

Is he heterosexual (likes girls)?

Maybe there's some concern he still has girl parts below and would be wrestling boys?

 

[parasaurolophus]

There's an absolutely awesome solution.  Let him wrestle boys.

That would be fine for this case, but not safe if the gender identifications were different. If a female taking testosterone goes 35-0, a male that identifies as a woman could kill somebody. Would be great if they could just make decisions one off based on what they saw fit as best, but obviously lawyers would really screw us all over then. 

 

[Henry Ford]

That would be fine for this case, but not safe if the gender identifications were different. If a female taking testosterone goes 35-0, a male that identifies as a woman could kill somebody. Would be great if they could just make decisions one off based on what they saw fit as best, but obviously lawyers would really screw us all over then. 

Not after any reasonable period of time on hormone therapy.  As I've discussed in this thread before.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Or just let him wrestle boys.  Seems a lot easier.

Sounds great.

The point I'm trying to make is, he should have not wrestled girls, especially the 2nd yr. He doesn't have to wrestle. He really doesn't have to wrestle for the school.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Not after any reasonable period of time on hormone therapy.  As I've discussed in this thread before.

So the rule should be that males identifying as females not on hormone therapy have to wrestle with males, males identifying as female after a henry ford decided reasonable time on hormone therapy get to wrestle females, females that identify as males can wrestle with...

Oh forget it sticking with my stance there is really no great solution here, don't feel like having another waste of time discussion with a lawyer.

 

[Henry Ford]

So the rule should be that males identifying as females not on hormone therapy have to wrestle with males, males identifying as female after a henry ford decided reasonable time on hormone therapy get to wrestle females, females that identify as males can wrestle with...

Oh forget it sticking with my stance there is really no great solution here, don't feel like having another waste of time discussion with a lawyer.

It's not a "Henry Ford decided" reasonable time. It's the time the NCAA uses based on doctor's decisions.  As I've discussed in here before.

 

[Henry Ford]

Sounds great.

The point I'm trying to make is, he should have not wrestled girls, especially the 2nd yr. He doesn't have to wrestle. He really doesn't have to wrestle for the school.

I think everyone involved in these kinds of threads would do well to remember that the things we have the right to do and decide to do aren't always based on need.  Much like the "why does anyone need an assault rifle" thread in the politics forum.  No, the kid doesn't need to wrestle, but he got a college scholarship because he does.  

 

[Grahamburn]

Just to show I am consistent, if there was some fluky rule that because of my February 29th leap year birthday, I could play Little League baseball at 36 years old, I would not be proud of myself if I led the league in home runs. Sometimes you just gotta sit it out if it's going to make the playing field unlevel.

I wish I could play Little League now.  I could kick some ####### ###.  They'd back up now.  Alright.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I think everyone involved in these kinds of threads would do well to remember that the things we have the right to do and decide to do aren't always based on need.  Much like the "why does anyone need an assault rifle" thread in the politics forum.  No, the kid doesn't need to wrestle, but he got a college scholarship because he does.  

You don't have to play high school sports to get a college athletic scholarship

 

[Weebs210]

She would get destroyed wrestling boys. Can't wait until 0-35.

 

[Henry Ford]

You don't have to play high school sports to get a college athletic scholarship

You do if you can’t pay for private teams. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

When in H.S. I would not have been able to wrestle a transgendered girl or would it be transgendered boy.  I would have had intellectual and emotional reservations about doing so, at least I think I would have, difficult to know for sure, now 4 decades removed from the matter.  I do know this about the me I was then, so many years ago.  I know that my reservations would have been my own, personal.  I would not have sought to have the relevant associations make life more difficult for the kid, and I would not have blamed others for my decision.  If I passed up an opportunity that would be on me, no one else. I would have figured it was not on me to make life more challenging for someone already confronting challenges, that is not who I was.  I was one to champion those brave enough to step forward and challenge convention, those who strove in the face of obstacle.  I was one to speak for those who had no voice, or no support to hear their voice through knee jerk intolerance.

 

[Henry Ford]

Is he heterosexual (likes girls)?

Maybe there's some concern he still has girl parts below and would be wrestling boys?

Why would that be a concern?

 

[ChiefD]

So wait - is Finkle Einhorn or Einhorn Finkle? I'm losing track here. 

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Anyone know if the wrestler who won has any NCAA offers?  Do they have girls wrestling in college?  

 

[Henry Ford]

Anyone know if the wrestler who won has any NCAA offers?  Do they have girls wrestling in college?  

Yeah, he's got a wrestling scholarship offer according to one article I read.  It'll be competing against young men.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

When in H.S. I would not have been able to wrestle a transgendered girl.  I would have had intellectual and emotional reservations about doing so, at least I think I would have, difficult to know for sure, now 4 decades removed from the matter.  I do know this about the me I was then, so many years ago.  I know that my reservations would have been my own, personal.  I would not have sought to have the relevant associations make life more difficult for the kid, and I would not have blamed other for my decision.  If I passed up and opportunity that would be on me, no one else. I would have figured it was not on me to make life more challenging for someone already confronting challenges, that is not who I was.  I was one to champion those brave enough to step forward and challenge convention, those who strove in the face of obstacle.  I was one to speak for those who had no voice, or no support to hear there voice through knee jerk intolerance.

This wrestler was brave enough to step forward and challenge convention last yr. The powers that be didn't change any rules for this year. I think the point was made last year that wrestling girls was a sham. That should have been enough, why the need to prove it again this year?

His achievements as a JR would have been enough get a scholarship if he deserved one

Obviously jmo

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Yeah, he's got a wrestling scholarship offer according to one article I read.  It'll be competing against young men.

He said he has an academic scholarship offer from a small college, where he was promised a spot on the men's wrestling team.

abc news

 

[Jackstraw]

You don't have to play high school sports to get a college athletic scholarship

If he would just kind of go away it would be much easier on the rest of us. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

If he would just kind of go away it would be much easier on the rest of us. 

 ?

 

[Henry Ford]

He said he has an academic scholarship offer from a small college, where he was promised a spot on the men's wrestling team.

abc news

Meanwhile, though, he's weighing a college men's wrestling scholarship offer and awaiting a date for his "top surgery" by a Plano doctor.

Dallas Morning News

Daily Mail

Atlanta Journal Constitution

WHIO

WSB Radio

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Meanwhile, though, he's weighing a college men's wrestling scholarship offer and awaiting a date for his "top surgery" by a Plano doctor.

Dallas Morning News

Daily Mail

Atlanta Journal Constitution

WHIO

WSB Radio

?

 

[Ilov80s]

Is he heterosexual (likes girls)?

Maybe there's some concern he still has girl parts below and would be wrestling boys?

In Michigan, we don't have girls high school wrestling. They wrestle the boys. 

 

[Short Corner]

This wrestler was brave enough to step forward and challenge convention last yr. The powers that be didn't change any rules for this year. I think the point was made last year that wrestling girls was a sham. That should have been enough, why the need to prove it again this year?

His achievements as a JR would have been enough get a scholarship if he deserved one

Obviously jmo

Apparently it wasn't if they didn't change the rule.

 

[Henry Ford]

NCAA Policy on Transgender Student-Athlete Participation

The following policies clarify participation of transgender student-athletes undergoing hormonal treatment for gender transition:

1. A trans male (FTM) student-athlete who has received a medical exception for treatment with testosterone for diagnosed Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria and/or Transsexualism, for purposes of NCAA competition may compete on a men’s team, but is no longer eligible to compete on a women’s team without changing that team status to a mixed team.

2. A trans female (MTF) student-athlete being treated with testosterone suppression medication for Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria and/or Transsexualism, for the purposes of NCAA competition may continue to compete on a men’s team but may not compete on a women’s team without changing it to a mixed team status until completing one calendar year of testosterone suppression treatment.

Any transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatment related to gender transition may participate in sex-separated sports activities in accordance with his or her assigned birth gender.

• A trans male (FTM) student-athlete who is not taking testosterone related to gender transition may participate on a men’s or women’s team.

• A trans female (MTF) transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatments related to gender transition may not compete on a women’s team.

 

[Henry Ford]

This is easy.  Failure to implement it is stupid.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

This is easy.  Failure to implement it is stupid.

Of course it is. And of course it is.

You know what else is stupid? Choosing to wrestle girls 2 yrs in a row

 

[Henry Ford]

Of course it is. And of course it is.

You know what else is stupid? Choosing to wrestle girls 2 yrs in a row

"Hey, Rosa Parks! They still won't let you move up front.  So... can we just let it go?"

 

[Cowboysfan8]

"Hey, Rosa Parks! They still won't let you move up front.  So... can we just let it go?"

I'm sorry but....

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm sorry but....

You don't have to be sorry.  I know how people view this climb.  It will not always be thus.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

You don't have to be sorry.  I know how people view this climb.  It will not always be thus.

Which climb exactly?

 

[Henry Ford]

Which climb exactly?

The one transgender people - especially kids - have been making for several decades.  The civil rights one.  That's what this is about.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

The one transgender people - especially kids - have been making for several decades.  The civil rights one.  That's what this is about.

Why can't it be about the girl he beat in the finals too?  Or the semis? 

Maybe those girls would've gotten something out of being state champion instead of runner up because they had to wrestle Mack

They don't matter?

 

[Henry Ford]

Why can't it be about the girl he beat in the finals too?  Or the semis? 

Maybe those girls would've gotten something out of being state champion instead of runner up because they had to wrestle Mack

They don't matter?

Sure they do.  So did the bus drivers who lost their jobs because no one was riding the bus and mass layoffs happened in Montgomery. But they don't matter so much that the person working for civil rights has to back down and just be nice to people who aren't fighting for him or her.  Those kinds of consequences are how civil rights activists have gotten the fence sitters to take a side as long as anyone can remember.  

 

[Hilts]

This is easy.  Failure to implement it is stupid.

I don't understand why outrage is being directed at the kid instead of the governing body that refuses to make an obvious and easy change. 

 

[Henry Ford]

I don't understand why outrage is being directed at the kid instead of the governing body that refuses to make an obvious and easy change. 

Because there isn't a societally ingrained mistrust and bias against sport governing bodies.

 

[Shula-holic]

The Barry Bonds of TX high school wrestling

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I don't understand why outrage is being directed at the kid instead of the governing body that refuses to make an obvious and easy change. 

Athletic associations are famous for being idiotic.

Here's the thing about sports competition imo

When you're up 30 in the 4th you don't have your starters chucking up 3s..you clear the bench.

When you're up 4 touchdowns with 3 mins to play you don't throw bombs

When you're up 10 in the top of the 9th you don't steal 3rd

When this is you 

 https://www.google.com/search?q=mack+beggs&client=ms-android-verizon&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7hsfO48TZAhVQdt8KHSslA8cQ_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=512#imgrc=OCNSDO4ituQz6M:

you don't wrestle girls in high school

 

[Underachievers]

Athletic associations are famous for being idiotic.

Here's the thing about sports competition imo

When you're up 30 in the 4th you don't have your starters chucking up 3s..you clear the bench.

When you're up 4 touchdowns with 3 mins to play you don't throw bombs

When you're up 10 in the top of the 9th you don't steal 3rd

When this is you 

 https://www.google.com/search?q=mack+beggs&client=ms-android-verizon&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7hsfO48TZAhVQdt8KHSslA8cQ_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=512#imgrc=OCNSDO4ituQz6M:

you don't wrestle girls in high school

But but but....it's a civil rights issue.  ?

 

[Hilts]

Athletic associations are famous for being idiotic.

When this is you 

 https://www.google.com/search?q=mack+beggs&client=ms-android-verizon&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7hsfO48TZAhVQdt8KHSslA8cQ_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=512#imgrc=OCNSDO4ituQz6M:

you don't wrestle girls in high school

I agree athletic associations can be idiotic. This case being a prime example. Why they're refusing to allow him to wrestle with the boys is truly inexplicable beyond them just being idiots.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I agree athletic associations can be idiotic. This case being a prime example. Why they're refusing to allow him to wrestle with the boys is truly inexplicable beyond them just being idiots.

I agree

 

[Henry Ford]

But but but....it's a civil rights issue.  ?

You’re right, it’s better for everyone if the young man just doesn’t do what he wants to do.  And the next one.  And the one after that.  They should all just let this stupid rule stand and not wrestle. 

 

[Don't Noonan]

Wait, there is such a thing as girls wrestling?  I am shuked.

 

[Shula-holic]

Some guy taking testosterone is wrestling a bunch of girls.  No wonder the families of the girls aren't exactly thrilled about it.  Be who/whatever gender you want to be.  I wouldn't ridicule anyone for that.  But when you make a push as a guy to try and compete against girls in something like wrestling, yeah I would probably be one who would laugh at you or ridicule you.

 

[Rodrigo Duterte]

Born a girl, identifies as a male now, takes low dose testosterone, wants to wrestle boys but Texas won't allow him, he wrestles girls and had been dominating.

I think that's what's going on.

A female, or male for that matter, wrestler should not be allowed to take testosterone.  Period.  This isn't that complicated.

 

[RCon]

Because there isn't a societally ingrained mistrust and bias against sport governing bodies.

Give it time.  Between USA gymnastics, USA swimming, IOC corruption, FIFA corruption, and Roger Goodell, among others...

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Because there isn't a societally ingrained mistrust and bias against sport governing bodies.

This is not true by the way

 

[dschuler]

Maybe we can just spend more money and test the transgender to see how much testorene is still in their body to determine if he/she has an advantage.  But then again should the previous 16 years of their life with a testorene advantage be considered cheating?  In that case, should there be a buffer period where you have to wait a certain amount of time going through a transition before you can compete?  

 

[Shutout]

A female, or male for that matter, wrestler should not be allowed to take testosterone.  Period.  This isn't that complicated.

Yup. Forget all the other stuff. One rule that says you have to pass reasonable drug tests in order to compete and this story would be about a kid who thinks he is unfairly not allowed to compete. But some one else would be champ in texas

 

[Hilts]

NCAA Policy on Transgender Student-Athlete Participation

The following policies clarify participation of transgender student-athletes undergoing hormonal treatment for gender transition:

1. A trans male (FTM) student-athlete who has received a medical exception for treatment with testosterone for diagnosed Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria and/or Transsexualism, for purposes of NCAA competition may compete on a men’s team, but is no longer eligible to compete on a women’s team without changing that team status to a mixed team.

2. A trans female (MTF) student-athlete being treated with testosterone suppression medication for Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria and/or Transsexualism, for the purposes of NCAA competition may continue to compete on a men’s team but may not compete on a women’s team without changing it to a mixed team status until completing one calendar year of testosterone suppression treatment.

Any transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatment related to gender transition may participate in sex-separated sports activities in accordance with his or her assigned birth gender.

• A trans male (FTM) student-athlete who is not taking testosterone related to gender transition may participate on a men’s or women’s team.

• A trans female (MTF) transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatments related to gender transition may not compete on a women’s team.

Maybe we can just spend more money and test the transgender to see how much testorene is still in their body to determine if he/she has an advantage.  But then again should the previous 16 years of their life with a testorene advantage be considered cheating?  In that case, should there be a buffer period where you have to wait a certain amount of time going through a transition before you can compete?  

For organizations that aren't clueless, the time-frame issues have already been addressed.