HYPOTHETICAL: If Vick Came Clean (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

Dude, every post I've read from you on this topic is thinly veiled as being a Vick apologist.

Did you miss in every thread where I said he deserved whatever he has coming to him and that he should fry? There's plenty of other people clamoring and outraged over his actions. I could go on and on about what he did but I chose not to. There's plenty of that going around already. I don't approve of what he did anymore than anyone else. I never once said I thought he didn't do anything. And I never once said the charges or the accusations were insignificant.

 

[Sweat Hog]

Dude, every post I've read from you on this topic is thinly veiled as being a Vick apologist.

Did you miss in every thread where I said he deserved whatever he has coming to him and that he should fry? There's plenty of other people clamoring and outraged over his actions. I could go on and on about what he did but I chose not to. There's plenty of that going around already. I don't approve of what he did anymore than anyone else. I never once said I thought he didn't do anything. And I never once said the charges or the accusations were insignificant.

Did you miss where I said "thinly veiled"?

 

[David Yudkin]

Dude, every post I've read from you on this topic is thinly veiled as being a Vick apologist.

Did you miss in every thread where I said he deserved whatever he has coming to him and that he should fry? There's plenty of other people clamoring and outraged over his actions. I could go on and on about what he did but I chose not to. There's plenty of that going around already. I don't approve of what he did anymore than anyone else. I never once said I thought he didn't do anything. And I never once said the charges or the accusations were insignificant.

Did you miss where I said "thinly veiled"?

Make up your mind. I came out in all of these threads agreeing with "prosecute to the fullest extent of the law," yet you are suggesting I am pro-Vick, anti-animal, or something similar. I AM NOT on Vick's side here.I am playing devil's advocate to see how Vick could stay on the field and/or repair his career. If you'd be more interested in me throwing gasoline on the fire and bashing him I'd be happy to do that but there are already 50,000,000 people doing that.

 

[Mo_Steel]

DY,

Make it 50,000,001 just for the sake of argument...

I figured it out in the other thread, and thought you did a nice job of making this new one.

I had a laugh as well as the others when talking about the "cutting a deal", at this point he has no cards to deal with, I am pretty sure the Feds and NFL are playing with a stacked deck, so climb-a-board

 

[David Yudkin]

DY,Make it 50,000,001 just for the sake of argument...I figured it out in the other thread, and thought you did a nice job of making this new one.I had a laugh as well as the others when talking about the "cutting a deal", at this point he has no cards to deal with, I am pretty sure the Feds and NFL are playing with a stacked deck, so climb-a-board

You don't think all the parties involved would rather see Vick take half the time in a suspension (say 8 games vs 16 games) rather than drag this out for potentially a year or more?I don't have an answer to that, but I'm not so sure the answer is automatically no.

 

[greggorymac]

Vick admit wrongdoing??? That's the worst legal advice I've ever heard. If the leash don't fit, you must acquit!

 

[ROCKET]

DY,Make it 50,000,001 just for the sake of argument...I figured it out in the other thread, and thought you did a nice job of making this new one.I had a laugh as well as the others when talking about the "cutting a deal", at this point he has no cards to deal with, I am pretty sure the Feds and NFL are playing with a stacked deck, so climb-a-board

You don't think all the parties involved would rather see Vick take half the time in a suspension (say 8 games vs 16 games) rather than drag this out for potentially a year or more?I don't have an answer to that, but I'm not so sure the answer is automatically no.

The only problem is that one of the parties involved are the feds who don't give a crap about dragging this out in the media. Prosecutors love this attention, judges too. I'm sure book deals and Nancy Grace bookings are in the works. Unfortunately I think this is going to be a long, drawn out saga vastly over-hyped by the media.

 

[Mo_Steel]

DY,Make it 50,000,001 just for the sake of argument...I figured it out in the other thread, and thought you did a nice job of making this new one.I had a laugh as well as the others when talking about the "cutting a deal", at this point he has no cards to deal with, I am pretty sure the Feds and NFL are playing with a stacked deck, so climb-a-board

You don't think all the parties involved would rather see Vick take half the time in a suspension (say 8 games vs 16 games) rather than drag this out for potentially a year or more?I don't have an answer to that, but I'm not so sure the answer is automatically no.

I was just trying to pull you into the wagon.Anyway, I don't think the parties are going to care if he takes half the suspension or all the suspension, I don't think it is up too him to take the suspension. If the commissioner states you are shut down then wham, you are shut down, no ifs ands or buts about it. What reason does the League have to offer him any sort of deal at this point as you have pointed out with so many against him, how does he have any "clout" left. I honestly think he is looking at a year suspension minimum for his own safety or disguised as anything other if we really don't feel they can suspend him. If the NFL uses its gambling policy or link him in some other way we have yet to speculate on; since Dog Fighting is an underworld unto itself, I am sure the Gambling piece could be linked. It is mentioned a few times in the 18 page indictment, and it didn't take Baseball long to get rid of its "Hit King" when the murmurs of gambling were whispered. Right now we don't know what is shaping up, but I can feel the winds a blowing, and they are not in MV's favor, so hurry up and jump on the wagon.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Let's say Vick sized up the situation and saw that he was getting painted into a corner. Let's also say he did the following:- Admits to being involved in dogfighting- Helps the feds nail other dogfighters- Enters an ongoing counseling program for his dogfighting/gambling addiction- Makes a plea deal to serve 6 months in jail (say all off season) and maybe gets out in 4 months- Makes a deal with the NFL to a 4 game suspension- Taskes out a full page add in the Atlanta newspaper apologizing to all involved- Starts and funds another prevention of animal cruelty charity- Does some community serve work, commercials for the humane society, etc.- Gives say 1/3 of his signing bonus back to the team- Gives another 1/3 of his signing bonus to animal charitiesWould this be enough to repair his image, keep the fans happy, keep the team happy, keep the league happy, and allow Vick to lose the stigma that otherwise would follow him forever?

How many executed and mutilated dogs would this make up for? If he admitted guilt then he's also admitting to lying to the commisioner, his team, and everyone else. The one and only way he saves his image is if he is found completely innocent. Not OJ innocent, but completely innocent. Sorry, but beating, hanging and electrocuting dogs to death isn't going away. No matter what he does.

The court will never find him "innocent". Courts find you "guilty" or "not enough evidence to convict" aka "not guilty".

 

[David Yudkin]

We all know how right ESPN has been, but in one of the other threads it looks like they are again saying the league's current stance is to let this go through the courts and discipline him after they're done, with the conclusion that if that's the case that Vick would likely be able to play all of this season. (Although I did not see the report so someone else might be better suited to elaborate on what they said).

 

[waylander]

Too many people feel that the rich get out of trouble, or off too lightly as it is. That would just reinforce that theory. I think this is going to be another Mike Tyson story.

 

[mad sweeney]

Let's say Vick sized up the situation and saw that he was getting painted into a corner. Let's also say he did the following:- Admits to being involved in dogfighting- Helps the feds nail other dogfighters- Enters an ongoing counseling program for his dogfighting/gambling addiction- Makes a plea deal to serve 6 months in jail (say all off season) and maybe gets out in 4 months- Makes a deal with the NFL to a 4 game suspension- Taskes out a full page add in the Atlanta newspaper apologizing to all involved- Starts and funds another prevention of animal cruelty charity- Does some community serve work, commercials for the humane society, etc.- Gives say 1/3 of his signing bonus back to the team- Gives another 1/3 of his signing bonus to animal charitiesWould this be enough to repair his image, keep the fans happy, keep the team happy, keep the league happy, and allow Vick to lose the stigma that otherwise would follow him forever?

How many executed and mutilated dogs would this make up for? If he admitted guilt then he's also admitting to lying to the commisioner, his team, and everyone else. The one and only way he saves his image is if he is found completely innocent. Not OJ innocent, but completely innocent. Sorry, but beating, hanging and electrocuting dogs to death isn't going away. No matter what he does.

The court will never find him "innocent". Courts find you "guilty" or "not enough evidence to convict" aka "not guilty".

I should havsaid found to be innocent. I know what the courts can rule and I was trying to distinguish between OJ type not guilty and real not guilty.

 

[GregR_2]

...- Makes a plea deal to serve 6 months in jail (say all off season) and maybe gets out in 4 months...

Aren't there 50+ dogs in the kennels at the time of the raid? Including those killed or maybe sold over the years, How many is that? 80? Possibly over 100?So 120 days in prison. Would you argue 1-2 days in jail per dog tortured is about right?

 

[John Mamula]

When it is all said and done, I would be shocked if Vick was the only NFL player involved.

Could be the case, but it's doubtful there's a higher profile one than Vick involved...

Ok, I buy that, but I don't know what your point is.

 

[David Yudkin]

...- Makes a plea deal to serve 6 months in jail (say all off season) and maybe gets out in 4 months...

Aren't there 50+ dogs in the kennels at the time of the raid? Including those killed or maybe sold over the years, How many is that? 80? Possibly over 100?So 120 days in prison. Would you argue 1-2 days in jail per dog tortured is about right?

I have no idea what a discounted arrangement would be. I'm fine with the 6 years as charged, so you're asking the wrong person.

 

[waylander]

Is the entire indictment available to read online? And if someone has read it, is he being charged on a per dog basis?

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I don't think so. Just look in the dog vs. stranger thread. If many people would save their own dog over a stranger, and can relate to Vick torturing dogs, people won't forgive him any time soon and will see and charitable work for what it is: pandering to the fans.It's going to sound bad, but people will hate Vick more for what he did to helpless dogs than if he beat his gf/wife.Personally, I would not support the Falcons if I was a season ticket holder until he was off the roster. Not sure of the demographics of ATL peeps though.

For whatever it's worth, they had a poll on the local evening news, and it it was really split46% said boot him now46% said wait to see what happens in court8% no opinion. I was suprised to see 46% would want him booted now. I say cut his ###.

 

[Mo_Steel]

Here's a good article only a few hours old going through the historical signifigance of Athletes in trouble and their endorsements. Specifically MV's Nike deal and a statement from Nike, but Nike has also been one to stick with their stars; Kobe, Lance, et al.

I am guessing that if we see Nike jump ship shortly, then they have some insider knowlege considering the names they have stuck behind through some serious allegations though not as emotion provoking as the one's Vick is facing.

Troubled Athletes vs. Endorsements

 

[Mo_Steel]

Is the entire indictment available to read online? And if someone has read it, is he being charged on a per dog basis?

Read down the page. The top is the editing sites filler but all 18 pages in its glory for you to sift and filter through. It doesn't list the punishments, as an indictment is just the charges, ala a ticket (summons), handed out by the Grand Jury.Indictment

 

[waylander]

Thanks Mo. I am reading through it now, he is so F'd in the A man. His kennels was registered to that Virginia house address. They've made mention of vet treatment for dogs and also people that they have bought Pitbulls from. I bet they get a vet to testify against them to keep from getting charged for not reporting it.

Edit: I looked at the Vick Kennelz website before they took it down, and the kennels did look like what I saw in the VA house pictures. His story of not knowing anything about it and rarely visiting there has got so many holes shot in it, and I'm not even past page 4.

 

[David Yudkin]

Thanks Mo. I am reading through it now, he is so F'd in the A man. His kennels was registered to that Virginia house address. They've made mention of vet treatment for dogs and also people that they have bought Pitbulls from. I bet they get a vet to testify against them to keep from getting charged for not reporting it.Edit: I looked at the Vick Kennelz website before they took it down, and the kennels did look like what I saw in the VA house pictures. His story of not knowing anything about it and rarely visiting there has got so many holes shot in it, and I'm not even past page 4.

IIRC, Vick did not live at the house. I'm not sure what the law is with regard to knowing what goes on on your properties you own, but his excuse so far is that while he owned the house he didn't live there and was not fully aware of what was happening. Weak, I know, but that's his position.

 

[waylander]

Thanks Mo. I am reading through it now, he is so F'd in the A man. His kennels was registered to that Virginia house address. They've made mention of vet treatment for dogs and also people that they have bought Pitbulls from. I bet they get a vet to testify against them to keep from getting charged for not reporting it.Edit: I looked at the Vick Kennelz website before they took it down, and the kennels did look like what I saw in the VA house pictures. His story of not knowing anything about it and rarely visiting there has got so many holes shot in it, and I'm not even past page 4.

IIRC, Vick did not live at the house. I'm not sure what the law is with regard to knowing what goes on on your properties you own, but his excuse so far is that while he owned the house he didn't live there and was not fully aware of what was happening. Weak, I know, but that's his position.

I know he is backpedaling, I would do the same but he registered a business to that address, there is no federal jury that is going to buy "I wasn't there, I didn't know about it and I'm not responsible". They have the dates of fights, who owned them, the dog's sex and their names. There is more than one person rolling over on Vick. I saw one on the news last night as a matter of fact, but it seems highly unlikely that just one person had all of that information. Unless P-funk is the one talking.

 

[Mo_Steel]

The thing that gets me is they list persons "unknown" to the jury and the CW (corroborating witnesses) in many instances of the evidence. If you read close as it is hard to catch there are several instances where they actually say persons "KNOWN" to the jury. I find it wierd as all others like the defendants are named or referred to as a CW, I am making the assumption the persons "known" are people they want to protect as well or bring other charges against later. Obviously all the people mentioned including the CW's are known to the Grand Jury, but found that to be interesting that others were mentioned but not specifically.

 

[BigRed]

Let's say Vick sized up the situation and saw that he was getting painted into a corner. Let's also say he did the following:- Admits to being involved in dogfighting- Helps the feds nail other dogfighters- Enters an ongoing counseling program for his dogfighting/gambling addiction- Makes a plea deal to serve 6 months in jail (say all off season) and maybe gets out in 4 months- Makes a deal with the NFL to a 4 game suspension- Taskes out a full page add in the Atlanta newspaper apologizing to all involved- Starts and funds another prevention of animal cruelty charity- Does some community serve work, commercials for the humane society, etc.- Gives say 1/3 of his signing bonus back to the team- Gives another 1/3 of his signing bonus to animal charitiesWould this be enough to repair his image, keep the fans happy, keep the team happy, keep the league happy, and allow Vick to lose the stigma that otherwise would follow him forever?

Tragically, yes. Esp if he came back and won a SB or even got close. People get all high n mighty about it now, but I bet a great many of them would forgive and forget because they care a lot more about their precious football team/games than a bunch of dogs - or justice.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Let's say Vick sized up the situation and saw that he was getting painted into a corner. Let's also say he did the following:- Admits to being involved in dogfighting- Helps the feds nail other dogfighters- Enters an ongoing counseling program for his dogfighting/gambling addiction- Makes a plea deal to serve 6 months in jail (say all off season) and maybe gets out in 4 months- Makes a deal with the NFL to a 4 game suspension- Taskes out a full page add in the Atlanta newspaper apologizing to all involved- Starts and funds another prevention of animal cruelty charity- Does some community serve work, commercials for the humane society, etc.- Gives say 1/3 of his signing bonus back to the team- Gives another 1/3 of his signing bonus to animal charitiesWould this be enough to repair his image, keep the fans happy, keep the team happy, keep the league happy, and allow Vick to lose the stigma that otherwise would follow him forever?

No. He is accused of some truly brutal behavior. Sorry just doesn't cut it. He doesn't need counseling for addiction, he need counseling for being a psycho.

 

[waylander]

I'm sure they have a reason for not stating everyone. It could just be informants that they have used to build the case but won't be calling to the stand as a witness.

It could have something to do with the discover packet Vick would get if he does serve prison time to protect people thinking that Vick has the means to have someone hurt or killed, and he will be portrayed as a violent monster who is capable of doing that because of how these animals were treated.

 

[BigRed]

No. He is accused of some truly brutal behavior. Sorry just doesn't cut it. He doesn't need counseling for addiction, he need counseling for being a psycho.

You realize the question wasn't would YOU forgive him, right? The Raven fans (and who knows how many more) forgave R Lewis for covering up a few little innocent murders of human beings, so why wouldn't fans forgive killling dogs?

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

As far as I care... at this point...

I hope he gets chained down, soaked in water, and electrocuted from an exposed live wire.

No, no, no...Don't chain him down.

Chain him up.

You guys need to be more creative. I'm a true "eye-for-an-eye-er."

Chain him up so his thighs are about the height a pitbull can jump, and well... introduce some pitbulls.

I've been a Vick supporter for a LONG time, but after reading only a few pages of that indictment my opinion did a 180. Now, I'm not one to judge, so I am still holding out a shimmer of hope that this might be BS, and he is proven innocent, but it looks pretty bad right now. If I have to, I'll retract my statements, but until then I'd like to see this punk (and his 3 buddies) thrown into a ring with some UFC stud in a battle to the death. I'd love to see the look in his eyes as that opening bell rings.

 

[Mo_Steel]

I'm sure they have a reason for not stating everyone. It could just be informants that they have used to build the case but won't be calling to the stand as a witness.

It could have something to do with the discover packet Vick would get if he does serve prison time to protect people thinking that Vick has the means to have someone hurt or killed, and he will be portrayed as a violent monster who is capable of doing that because of how these animals were treated.

I am with you... Heres another article from Carrucci on NFL, that pretty much lays it out, and has some timelines of the saga that is playing out. article

 

[waylander]

No. He is accused of some truly brutal behavior. Sorry just doesn't cut it. He doesn't need counseling for addiction, he need counseling for being a psycho.

You realize the question wasn't would YOU forgive him, right? The Raven fans (and who knows how many more) forgave R Lewis for covering up a few little innocent murders of human beings, so why wouldn't fans forgive killling dogs?

You make a good point there. Someone should have been convicted for those murders, and noone else was ever charged. The Atlanta police still say, we got the right guys arrested, just couldn't convict them. Case closed.

 

[nerangers]

I think Vick should be suspended right now by the NFL (he can appeal it if found innocent-- yeah I know, innocent until proven guilty ). They suspended Pac-Man who has not been convicted yet. If anything, the NFL should do this after the hearing on July 26th. (Vick and three co-defendants scheduled to appear before a magistrate judge in Richmond, Va., on July 26, 2007, the same day the Falcons begin training camp).

I can't imagine his teammates wanting to play with him till this whole deal is settled in Court.

 

[sholditch]

Vick's career is not over. What Vick needs now more than anything is something he can't buy - Time. After some time has passed, things will cool off and some other athlete will do something stupid and people will start to forget about most of this. As soon as Tiger Woods starts beating his supermodel wife with a putter in his driveway, people will pay attention to something else. Vick's legal team will drag this out and the federal government and the NFL will let him. Vick gets suspended for the year by Goodell. Won't be voluntary. Won't be by Blank. Will be Goodell. Because it's important for the perception of Goodell as the new commish. Blank will get to weasel his way out of this monster contract. That what he gets for his time and trouble. The other powerful owners will give him a one time pass and tell him to never be this stupid again as to skyrocket salaries across the board like he did with Vick's contract. After one year, Vick does some short jail time in Club Fed so the animal huggers and the federal government each can have their wins and not lose face over this whole situation. Vick will shut his mouth and accept this under threat of getting locked up for longer and being banned from the NFL. The NFL will not wait a year to suspend Vick, right now they have public sentiment on their side and they will use it. Vick will also be told by his lawyers that out of sight, out of mind will not be a bad thing. Vick starts over with a new team and soon all is forgotten by most after he breaks out a 100 yard TD run on a busted play. Vick will- Lose a year of playing- Lose all his endorsements- Lose his current contract with his current team and probably lose some of his bonus money- Have to swallow the public's wrath for a little while- Get a criminal record out of this but who cares? He's rich anyway. Vick's PR people will tell him to pull a born again Christian routine, he pays off some PETA people quietly and get himself a new haircut so he looks less like a thug from now on. Trust me, he's going to get a new haircut. He will sit at home, working out, biding his time and stay out of trouble and cross his fingers in hopes that Tiger Woods will start beating his wife real real soon. Vick's fate is already decided. It was decided long ago. The NFL and the federal government have already worked out what they want to do to make sure neither of them look like fools standing around just holding their ##### in their hands over this. Time. That's what all of this will come down to.

You're a sick ******* Gekko. Ruthless, powerful, and sick.

 

[sholditch]

Thanks Mo. I am reading through it now, he is so F'd in the A man. His kennels was registered to that Virginia house address. They've made mention of vet treatment for dogs and also people that they have bought Pitbulls from. I bet they get a vet to testify against them to keep from getting charged for not reporting it.Edit: I looked at the Vick Kennelz website before they took it down, and the kennels did look like what I saw in the VA house pictures. His story of not knowing anything about it and rarely visiting there has got so many holes shot in it, and I'm not even past page 4.

IIRC, Vick did not live at the house. I'm not sure what the law is with regard to knowing what goes on on your properties you own, but his excuse so far is that while he owned the house he didn't live there and was not fully aware of what was happening. Weak, I know, but that's his position.

According to the latest thing I read about the new law, it similar to what's imposed on CEOs. Even if you didn't know, you're still liable.

 

[sholditch]

When it is all said and done, I would be shocked if Vick was the only NFL player involved.

It's absurd to think this ends with Vick. However, bringing charges against people who simply bet on the events is a far cry from putting down the guys who ran the dog-fighting. Whether any other names will come to light remains a mystery, but you can bet there are a LOT of nervous athletes (and some celebrities I'm sure) right now.

How is that a far cry? Hyppthetically, if you're involved in some sort of ring that pays to watch humans be tortured to death, then I wouldn't think a jury would be sympathetic to "i was just there to bet on how long he would last" That's ridiculous. They are the ones who drive the crime, they supply the demand.

 

[vitaflo]

- Makes a plea deal to serve 6 months in jail (say all off season) and maybe gets out in 4 months

Not going to happen. You get sentanced in federal court you serve all the time. There's no getting out early.

 

[Two Deep]

No, There is nothing he can do or say to take back what he did. He tortured and killed animals for his own pleasure. It doesn't get much worse than that.

 

[Aabye]

A couple things that make the stigma especially hard to shake:

1. Repenting after you've been caught always rings hollow.

2. It's not like most of the other NFL misconduct - getting drunk / high and doing something stupid. It was an ongoing pattern of cruelty and brutality that lasted years.

If the charges stick or Vick pleads, I lose all respect for him and it takes years, probably more than a decade and long after he could possibly cash in on his celebrity and athletic ability, to regain any level of respect back.

I don't know how other people feel about it, but I'd guess that a hasty patch up job that includes an attempt to buy credibility back would strike most as disingenuous and somewhat sickening.

 

[dickey moe]

Vick's career is not over. What Vick needs now more than anything is something he can't buy - Time. After some time has passed, things will cool off and some other athlete will do something stupid and people will start to forget about most of this. As soon as Tiger Woods starts beating his supermodel wife with a putter in his driveway, people will pay attention to something else. Vick's legal team will drag this out and the federal government and the NFL will let him. Vick gets suspended for the year by Goodell. Won't be voluntary. Won't be by Blank. Will be Goodell. Because it's important for the perception of Goodell as the new commish. Blank will get to weasel his way out of this monster contract. That what he gets for his time and trouble. The other powerful owners will give him a one time pass and tell him to never be this stupid again as to skyrocket salaries across the board like he did with Vick's contract. After one year, Vick does some short jail time in Club Fed so the animal huggers and the federal government each can have their wins and not lose face over this whole situation. Vick will shut his mouth and accept this under threat of getting locked up for longer and being banned from the NFL. The NFL will not wait a year to suspend Vick, right now they have public sentiment on their side and they will use it. Vick will also be told by his lawyers that out of sight, out of mind will not be a bad thing. Vick starts over with a new team and soon all is forgotten by most after he breaks out a 100 yard TD run on a busted play. Vick will- Lose a year of playing- Lose all his endorsements- Lose his current contract with his current team and probably lose some of his bonus money- Have to swallow the public's wrath for a little while- Get a criminal record out of this but who cares? He's rich anyway. Vick's PR people will tell him to pull a born again Christian routine, he pays off some PETA people quietly and get himself a new haircut so he looks less like a thug from now on. Trust me, he's going to get a new haircut. He will sit at home, working out, biding his time and stay out of trouble and cross his fingers in hopes that Tiger Woods will start beating his wife real real soon. Vick's fate is already decided. It was decided long ago. The NFL and the federal government have already worked out what they want to do to make sure neither of them look like fools standing around just holding their ##### in their hands over this. Time. That's what all of this will come down to.

LOL -- did Tiger Woods steal your wife or something?

 

[pizzatyme]

How could anyone want to be a teammate of his that wasn't in on this crap? How could Blank continue to pay him a salary being the decent man Blank is?

Why does anyone make it sound like the NFL needs to restore its image here? Anyone could be doing this, it's not the NFLs fault?!

If found guilty, I hope he does the maximum. As someone said, if he were to place a $20 down on the Falcons, he's out of the league. How could he get any less for this?

Disgusted~

 

[Mr. Bill O'Reilly]

Would this be enough to repair his image, keep the fans happy, keep the team happy, keep the league happy, and allow Vick to lose the stigma that otherwise would follow him forever?

No. He still did it, supported it and wasn't jailed/punished enough for it. It's a really disgusting act and IMO and don't cut it.

Man, I really feel like an ultra liberal weirdo here, but just because you personally find it a "disgusting act" really shouldn't matter. There are a ton of acts that people find disgusting (even killing animals and eating them)... Granted he doesn't eat them but raises them for prizefighting... Some people don't seem to understand it's a cultural thing no matter how offensive you find it, it's something that has existed forever and will always exist... Much like people want to see a boxing match or car crash. Yes, it is illegal(which it should be IMO)and a felony (not so sure I agree with this) but if a man is serving year(s) over doing it that is more than enough time for me and I would have no qualms about him returning to the NFL. These are animals, they're not people... One could make the argument that the NFL is doing more harm because NFL players are human beings with the studies that have came to light on the brain damage to PEOPLE (I'm not one of them btw) and is similar because people who have no problems with one another are physically injuring and trying to hurt each other. Just trying to not overreact to this and look at all the factors.

 

[Obie Wan]

When it is all said and done, I would be shocked if Vick was the only NFL player involved.

It's absurd to think this ends with Vick. However, bringing charges against people who simply bet on the events is a far cry from putting down the guys who ran the dog-fighting. Whether any other names will come to light remains a mystery, but you can bet there are a LOT of nervous athletes (and some celebrities I'm sure) right now.

start with Clinton Portis and the Virginia dog fighting location mentioned in the indictment.

 

[JaxBill]

The time for Vick to say I'm sorry and make a deal has come and gone. If he was gonna do that, it should have been when he met with the commish a couple months ago.

The feds are not only involved but feel like they have a case against him. Chances are one of his associates has already beat him to the punch by squealing first.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

Though I have never been a fan of Vick (even though he hails from my area), I tend to be quick to forgive and believe that everyone should have a chance to repent and make amends if they have done wrong; this is a unique circumstance, though, as Boston mentioned:

The reason I can never respect Vick again (assuming all this is true) and don't think he deserves any remorse is his criminal behavior has taken place over approximately a six year period. This isn't a spur of the moment/one shot deal like a bar room fight or DWI (assuming we're talking about someone with no prior record) or even some oddball crime of passion. This guy has been involved in felonious activity for quite sometime. He's had plenty of opportunities to look in the mirror and realize what he was doing was both immoral and against the law. I'm just not going to be impressed with him doing a 180 now that he got bagged or because he has a ton of money to use as an angle to repair his image. If these charges are true than he's nothing more than a lowlife punk and no amount of money or God-given althletic talent can change that.

This was not a lapse in judgement, this was a lifestyle. If he agrees to help bring down other dog-fighting enterprises, then that would certainly be a good start, but now that the nation is gradually becoming more aware of this grisly sport and everything it entails, I don't know that anyone - especially animal lovers - will be able to look at Vick the same way. Unfortunately, nobody will be able to dissociate Vick from those horrible stories in the indictment, even if he somehow happens to be exonerated.I too am very interested to see if any other NFL players were involved in thisNi

 

[BeTheMatch]

Would this be enough to repair his image, keep the fans happy, keep the team happy, keep the league happy, and allow Vick to lose the stigma that otherwise would follow him forever?

No. He still did it, supported it and wasn't jailed/punished enough for it. It's a really disgusting act and IMO and don't cut it.

Man, I really feel like an ultra liberal weirdo here, but just because you personally find it a "disgusting act" really shouldn't matter. There are a ton of acts that people find disgusting (even killing animals and eating them)... Granted he doesn't eat them but raises them for prizefighting... Some people don't seem to understand it's a cultural thing no matter how offensive you find it, it's something that has existed forever and will always exist... Much like people want to see a boxing match or car crash. Yes, it is illegal(which it should be IMO)and a felony (not so sure I agree with this) but if a man is serving year(s) over doing it that is more than enough time for me and I would have no qualms about him returning to the NFL. These are animals, they're not people... One could make the argument that the NFL is doing more harm because NFL players are human beings with the studies that have came to light on the brain damage to PEOPLE (I'm not one of them btw) and is similar because people who have no problems with one another are physically injuring and trying to hurt each other. Just trying to not overreact to this and look at all the factors.

But people are choosing to play in the NFL in spite of the risk of injury. I'm pretty sure those dogs didn't sign up to fight to the death or be electrocuted by that pig Vick.ETA: And how does your view here make you "ultra liberal"? I'd say just the opposite.

 

[3C's]

In other words buy his way out of further penalties.

No.

 

[Da Guru]

Let's say Vick sized up the situation and saw that he was getting painted into a corner. Let's also say he did the following:

- Admits to being involved in dogfighting

- Helps the feds nail other dogfighters

- Enters an ongoing counseling program for his dogfighting/gambling addiction

- Makes a plea deal to serve 6 months in jail (say all off season) and maybe gets out in 4 months

- Makes a deal with the NFL to a 4 game suspension

- Taskes out a full page add in the Atlanta newspaper apologizing to all involved

- Starts and funds another prevention of animal cruelty charity

- Does some community serve work, commercials for the humane society, etc.

- Gives say 1/3 of his signing bonus back to the team

- Gives another 1/3 of his signing bonus to animal charities

Would this be enough to repair his image, keep the fans happy, keep the team happy, keep the league happy, and allow Vick to lose the stigma that otherwise would follow him forever?

I saw a lawyer last night say that Vick would have been better off bashing a guys head in outside a night club than killing dogs. When animals are involved it gets ugly he stated.This stigma will dog Vick the rest of his career..if he has one left.