I don't care if they have two wins... (1 Viewer)

[cobalt_27]

After thinking about it for a while I've come to the conclusion that this is a classic case of us being influenced by Fantasy Football. The Cardinals have a ton of good fantasy options and are very star heavy in the skill positions. But they are absolutely terrible at the non-star positions and they have no clue how to win close games. The Raiders on the other hand have no star except for Moss, who is likely past his prime anyway(I guess you could count Sapp too, but the same thing applies with being past his prime).I think that many FF players overvalue NFL teams that have good fantasy options. I think the quote "At least, there's some things to hope for over the rest of the season with Arizona and into future years" said earlier in this thread clearly shows this. Oakland does indeed have hope. They have quite a few young playmakers. They jsut arne't stars like Leinart, Boldin, Fitz, and Edge. That doesn't mean they don't have potential.

More than this, it's being influenced by actually watching this trainwreck perform right before one's eyes, rather than relying on mid-season grades of their defenes, which has been hardly challenged by any offensive heavyweights. San Diego put up 27. Baltimore 28. Cleveland 24. San Fran 34. Denver inexplicably put up only 13, but they had only scored 10, 9, 17 and 13 before that Oakland game; obviously, they've picked it up of late. But, Oakland has mediocre stats against inferior opponents, and we're trying to figure out what you're excited about. They rank in the bottom of the league in forced turnovers. They're second-worst in the turnover margin. They commit gobs of penalties, are completely ineffectual on offense (if that's what you call it when they have the ball).Again, they are not BAD on defense. They're just not that good. On balance, when you actually watch them play, I don't know how you can come away defending how pathetic they look.

 

[cobalt_27]

I think that many FF players overvalue NFL teams that have good fantasy options.

I agree 100%. This is why I just couldn't understand the people who were picking the Cardinals as their sleeper team this season.Non-skill position players are just as important as skill position players; maybe even more so.

How's that O-line of Oakland look to you? They've allowed something like 44 sacks already this season. These aren't skill positions. And, you think it's fantasy football that shifts our focus only to the skill positions? See, I'm looking at the Gestalt of the thing, and this is just one gawd-awful football team, saved only by a not-bad-not-good defense.

 

[cobalt_27]

After thinking about it for a while I've come to the conclusion that this is a classic case of us being influenced by Fantasy Football. The Cardinals have a ton of good fantasy options and are very star heavy in the skill positions. But they are absolutely terrible at the non-star positions and they have no clue how to win close games. The Raiders on the other hand have no star except for Moss, who is likely past his prime anyway(I guess you could count Sapp too, but the same thing applies with being past his prime).

I think that many FF players overvalue NFL teams that have good fantasy options. I think the quote "At least, there's some things to hope for over the rest of the season with Arizona and into future years" said earlier in this thread clearly shows this. Oakland does indeed have hope. They have quite a few young playmakers. They jsut arne't stars like Leinart, Boldin, Fitz, and Edge. That doesn't mean they don't have potential.

No it doesn't. They have some skill positions to be excited about, to be sure. But, they obviously need to develop (Leinart, especially), and they need to start building up their O-line and defense to respectable measures before they can start winning. But, they have some players to be excited about.Please name the "quite a few young playmakers" on the Raiders you're so giddy about. This should be fun.

 

[Borat]

I think that many FF players overvalue NFL teams that have good fantasy options.

I agree 100%. This is why I just couldn't understand the people who were picking the Cardinals as their sleeper team this season.Non-skill position players are just as important as skill position players; maybe even more so.

How's that O-line of Oakland look to you? They've allowed something like 44 sacks already this season. These aren't skill positions. And, you think it's fantasy football that shifts our focus only to the skill positions? See, I'm looking at the Gestalt of the thing, and this is just one gawd-awful football team, saved only by a not-bad-not-good defense.

What is your point? Were people picking Oakland as a preseason sleeper? I must have missed that.

 

[Borat]

And, you think it's fantasy football that shifts our focus only to the skill positions?

To answer this question directly, I think fantasy football contributes to that, but it's of course not the only factor. The media and the game announcers are probably the two biggest reasons for it. And of course, let's face it: for the casual fan, it's more exciting to watch the speed and grace of the skill position players than it is to watch the hard work in the trenches of the non-skill position players.

 

[cobalt_27]

I think that many FF players overvalue NFL teams that have good fantasy options.

I agree 100%. This is why I just couldn't understand the people who were picking the Cardinals as their sleeper team this season.Non-skill position players are just as important as skill position players; maybe even more so.

How's that O-line of Oakland look to you? They've allowed something like 44 sacks already this season. These aren't skill positions. And, you think it's fantasy football that shifts our focus only to the skill positions? See, I'm looking at the Gestalt of the thing, and this is just one gawd-awful football team, saved only by a not-bad-not-good defense.

What is your point? Were people picking Oakland as a preseason sleeper? I must have missed that.

My point is that not all of us who are hypercritical of Oakland's state of affairs are focused on their lack of talent at the skill positions, which definitely describes one aspect of their woes. Not all of us have fallen victim to the distractions of FF when assessing this team. Instead, I--along with others, I'm sure--am equally mesmerized by how incapable the Raiders O-line is, how undisciplined they are in the special teams units, and the utter lack of any remarkable feature(s) to this stifling defense that characterizes Assani Fisher's assessment. I don't think it's FF that's deluding us here (maybe for some it is). Arizona, in my estimation, is as bad or almost as bad as Oakland at nearly every position, with the exception that they DO have better prospects/talent at some of the skill positions (QB and WR, most notably). I've been impressed with some moments in Arizona's season, and they haven't been able to put it together to create victories. And, until they do, they will be just another "bad" team, overall. But, I'm appaled by Oakland's offense and totally underwhelmed by their defensive performance (they've been adequate, but nothing to write home about).

 

[bryhamm]

I can see how Arizona won a game...and came close in a few others. I have absolutely no clue how the Raiders managed to win twice. they are absolutely the most awful and embarrassing football team i've ever seen play.

They have the #1 ranked defense in the NFL...how can you say you can't see how they've won a game? Their defense alone will keep them in many games to come.

#1 ranked based on what? Scoring, yards allowed, or something else?

 

[Warpig]

This is one of the worst threads I've ever read here, and thats saying a lot.

Change the channel, then. You don't have to read any of it. Just because you're wrong and the Raiders ARE the worst team in pro sports doesn't make it a bad thread. Maybe you might want to review the talent/coaching/package of the Raiders and reconsider just how awful they really are.

please explain to me how the Raiders are worse than the Arizona Cardinals. -They have a better record.

-They beat the Cardinals soundly

-The Cardinals won in week 1 and havn't won since.

-Oakland has won two consecutive games including beating last year's SB champ

I'll sit back and wait for your reply.

And, yes, I have watched many of theirs and of the Cardinal's games this year.

I'll take the Cards over the Raiders. Obviously, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel with both teams. Both are terribly-coached and dysfunctional in the front office. But, I sincerely believe the Cards have more talent across the board and will finish the season with more wins than the Raiders. Where they are now, the record and and the h2h matchup seem to indicate that the Raiders are better, I guess. But, given what I've seen, there's a lot more to work with in AZ than in Oakland. The Raiders are so pathetic. Didn't gain even 100 yards of offense in their W against Pittsburgh, benefitting from a concussed, mistake-prone offense, and now they've been shut out in consecutive weeks. Looking beyond the deplorable numbers for both teams, I just see a lot more futility out of the Raiders than any other team in any other sport. At least, there's some things to hope for over the rest of the season with Arizona and into future years.

The Raiders have a very good young defense. I don't know why you continue to fail to see this despite quite a few people pointing it out.

Fixed.Their defense is young and has promise for the future. But as of right now...they aren't very good. The reason I say this is because they have no heart. These guys just want to get the season over and try to get traded to another team. They don't like their coach and I really don't think they like each other. The defense is probably pointing the finger at the offense (rightfully so) and the offense is probably pointing the finger at the defense.

As far as the Steelers win...yes, a win is a win. But the Steelers didn't lose that game...Roethlisberger lost that game. Two Pick-6's was the only points Oakland could muster due to a concussed Qb that should have taken 6 months off (atleast to properly heal). Even a blind squirrel gets a nut every now and then.

 

[cobalt_27]

I can see how Arizona won a game...and came close in a few others. I have absolutely no clue how the Raiders managed to win twice. they are absolutely the most awful and embarrassing football team i've ever seen play.

They have the #1 ranked defense in the NFL...how can you say you can't see how they've won a game? Their defense alone will keep them in many games to come.

#1 ranked based on what? Scoring, yards allowed, or something else?

Exactly. Assani's hype machine for the Raider defense is as laughable as it is utterly unfounded.Here's REALLY where the Raiders rank on D:

#14 Scoring

#9 Yards

#22 Turnovers

#19 Sacks

Basically, this makes them a mediocre defense. And, given the fact that they have faced a bottom-feeder schedule on offense, it makes their defense even that more unremarkable. But, Assani seems to think this warrants a #1 ranking in his world. Interesting.

Worst offense in the league by far. They're embarrassingly bad. Poorly coached. Nothing to look forward to (I challenged AF to provide names of those players he's really excited about, and he's offered nary a person). Awful GM, making poor FA signings and draft picks.

This qualifies as the worst team in pro sports (with the Knicks in the discussion).